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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 224762 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12020 on: October 26, 2021, 04:43:49 pm »

Now you're gaslighting.  :)

You have a right to say (almost) whatever you want, but so do I. If I think you're behaving like a troll, I may choose to say so. If you want to erroneously interpret that as a slam on free speech, you have a right to do so.


That's funny. I think you're behaving like a troll. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12021 on: October 26, 2021, 05:04:47 pm »

That's funny. I think you're behaving like a troll.

Well you have to admit that if we were trying to silence you, then we're not doing a good job of it, are we. I mean, you're still talking, aren't you? Anybody ban you yet? If we're trying to stifle free speech, there has to at least be some evidence of it.  No?  :)

We've gone around this pointless circle enough, I think.

And I've changed my mind about Michael Wolff's book Landslide, I now think you should read it. Your library must have a copy. And before you ask, no I will not summarize it for you.

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12022 on: October 26, 2021, 05:20:16 pm »

Well you have to admit that if we were trying to silence you, then we're not doing a good job of it, are we. I mean, you're still talking, aren't you? Anybody ban you yet? If we're trying to stifle free speech, there has to at least be some evidence of it.  No?  :)

We've gone around this pointless circle enough, I think.

And I've changed my mind about Michael Wolff's book Landslide, I now think you should read it. Your library must have a copy. And before you ask, no I will not summarize it for you.


Well, I can only be silenced if I make personal attacks.  You too.  However, you're trying to delegitimize my points by calling me a troll.  You do that a lot.  I would prefer you attack my logic, beliefs, and opinions.  Getting into nyah nyahing is just so annoying.   Using counterpoint arguments are more challenging but more interesting when you debate.  It helps fine-tune your thinking and arguments.   Putting people down is just so amateurish.  Playground behavior.  Don't you agree?  :)

About the book.  Listening to another hit piece about Trump is too much.  I've been listening to them for over five years. It's enough. Time to move on. The Democrats pull him out whenever they need to distract the public from their screwups like Afghanistan, inflation, and the illegal immigrants.  In any case, there are more important issues we face in the future. 

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12023 on: October 26, 2021, 06:20:21 pm »

So what's your problem?

His problem is Attention Seeking Behavior. Our problem is how to deal with it and avoid the time-wasting expenditure of responding. Each of us will have to decide individually how or whether to respond to the well-practiced routines used to get attention. Frankly, not responding seems to be the best approach, but it's quite difficult to resist. He has a set of tried and true methods that are continually recycled which have been time-tested and proven to provoke a response.

The reasons for this behavior are not something I would not even attempt to guess, but the methods used are transparent and repetitively employed.

• Straw man replies that pretend to be a response to a post. The most recent example is his response to Manoli's suggestion that we simply not respond, essentially limiting our own speech by resisting our urge to reply. The reply pretended that Manoli suggested something completely different, silencing himself and others, and added the victim playing role for good measure.

• The martyrdom or role playing the victim. Used as a deflection or to get attention by seeking sympathy. Again, you can look at the replies above. This has been repeated time and again with various claims of insult or victimization.

• Making statements and pretending they were made by you when replying. This is a variation of the straw man reply on steroids. Like the straw man reply, it's hard to resist a response to make it clear that statement did not come from you.

• Insults, such as saying that you're lying or claiming your comments or beliefs represent something which would be vile or repulsive to you. Sometimes that's followed by a statement wrapping himself in virtue by contrast. Other examples may be milder than those insults, but still effective in provoking a response. "You really don't believe in freedom of speech" would be one of the midrange examples of this method.

• Circular arguments thru nonresponsive or repetitive replies. This is a regular feature and works by simply ignoring whatever you have said and repeating the same response, or a variation of it, in order to continue provoking replies by one or more responders.

• Explain it to me. Requesting attention and time from others by claiming the lack of personal time to look at a reference, feigned or real confusion (it's often hard to tell for certain), or by other means. Sometimes used as a setup for another circular argument.

There are other methods that are used, but those are the first six that come to mind. The question to ponder, for those of us who have fallen into these traps repeatedly, is how do we want to respond to these prolific and unrelenting methods of posting designed to provoke us into the use of our time in replying to provide the desired constant attention. Any suggestions are welcome.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12024 on: October 26, 2021, 06:45:52 pm »

Thank you Dr. Freud.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12025 on: October 26, 2021, 08:42:24 pm »

It's crude comments like this that make all your posts seem petty.

If you believe so, you need remedial instruction in reading.  I suggest you start with the topic "prejudice".
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12026 on: October 27, 2021, 08:36:56 am »

So my Lincoln car lease is running out in January.  So I checked with the dealer and to lease an equivalent car now will cost me $200 more per month higher than I'm paying now.  That's nuts! I didn't bother to ask about the upfront charge which I'm sure is a lot more than last time too.  They don't expect more new cars until the third quarter of 2022.  So when I asked him how business was he said it was actually pretty good.  Although they only have 17 cars of my model in the lot when normally they have 40, they're making up in higher price profits for each car sold even though they're selling fewer cars. Forget prices below the MSRP. (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price)  They are charging way above them.  All the dealers are doing it and getting way higher prices.  Never seen anything like that before.  It's a seller's market like I never have seen. 

Looks like I'll have to extend my lease six months or a year.  The problem is I don't think anything is going to change later when the extension ends.  At least I won't have to wait for a new foreign car floating on a cargo ship off California.  Anyone finding the same issues?  How are you handling it? 

PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12027 on: October 27, 2021, 10:51:31 am »

So my Lincoln car lease is running out in January.  So I checked with the dealer and to lease an equivalent car now will cost me $200 more per month higher than I'm paying now.  That's nuts! I didn't bother to ask about the upfront charge which I'm sure is a lot more than last time too.  They don't expect more new cars until the third quarter of 2022.  So when I asked him how business was he said it was actually pretty good.  Although they only have 17 cars of my model in the lot when normally they have 40, they're making up in higher price profits for each car sold even though they're selling fewer cars. Forget prices below the MSRP. (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price)  They are charging way above them.  All the dealers are doing it and getting way higher prices.  Never seen anything like that before.  It's a seller's market like I never have seen. 

Looks like I'll have to extend my lease six months or a year.  The problem is I don't think anything is going to change later when the extension ends.  At least I won't have to wait for a new foreign car floating on a cargo ship off California.  Anyone finding the same issues?  How are you handling it?

Aren't you a big proponent of free markets? This is how they work--supply and demand. We just bought a new car--a VW--and were pleased to get it at MSRP. This particular model is in demand and some dealers are marking it up $5-10K above MSRP. Maybe our dealer is a commie  :D?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12028 on: October 27, 2021, 11:45:39 am »

Aren't you a big proponent of free markets? This is how they work--supply and demand. We just bought a new car--a VW--and were pleased to get it at MSRP. This particular model is in demand and some dealers are marking it up $5-10K above MSRP. Maybe our dealer is a commie  :D?
It sounds like he's a rich Commie.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12029 on: October 27, 2021, 11:59:27 am »

Ps: while supply and demand in force, free markets did not.  The government shut down production while printing money and sending out stimulus checks to everyone.  So we have high demand and less supply causing higher prices.  That's why everything is going up.  Blame the government.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12030 on: October 27, 2021, 12:15:00 pm »

That's why everything is going up.  Blame the government.

For more on this topic, see TechTalk's most recent post listing trolling techniques, seen above. This statement is exactly what he was talking about.

Alan, the reasons why "everything is going up" are far more nuanced and complex than "Blame the government". 

This is vapid trolling, pure and simple. Get over yourself, please.

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12031 on: October 27, 2021, 12:53:19 pm »

For more on this topic, see TechTalk's most recent post listing trolling techniques, seen above. This statement is exactly what he was talking about.

Alan, the reasons why "everything is going up" are far more nuanced and complex than "Blame the government". 

This is vapid trolling, pure and simple. Get over yourself, please.


Rather than responding to my points and making your own, you again attack me personally.  That's unacceptable here on LuLa.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12032 on: October 27, 2021, 03:04:21 pm »

Alan doesn't like people to presume knowing what he thinks or claiming that he said something to which he appears to object.

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Interesteing that you seem to know what I think when you're the one constantly telling me that I should not assume what others think. Apparently only you can read other's minds and assume what they think.
He lied about what I said.  I never said it. I was responding to that.  That's different than giving your opinion about some topic and then someone calling you stupid or a liar. [or racist]

Unless, he's the one that's doing it.

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Why should your Canada and probably most other countries have ID requirements but America should waive its requirements?
It could be because in Canada there is not such racism and inequality that strict ID requirements don't result in disenfranchisement of a specific demographic.
The replies to that statement from Alan...

So you think Black Americans are ignorant.  That they're still picking cotton and don't know how to get an ID when ID's are required to get into an office or public building, drive, have a bank account,  or to get welfare or food stamps if they're poor... Do you realize how insulting and racist your opinion of black people is?
he says black people don't have the ability or intelligence to obtain ID's so they can vote just like white people
Quote
When I object to Alan's accusations of vile racist thoughts to Jeremy and then following that up by falsely attributing a racist statement to him, I get the same treatment.

Even worse. He decided to double down even more obscenely.
The fact is you don't feel black people are capable of getting ID's so they can vote, that they're too ignorant and not smart like white people.  You're the one putting down minorities, not me.  I think they're very capable and should be treated like adults which they are while you would treat them like children. That's racist and very demeaning.

Alan also doesn't believe in personal attacks. "That's unacceptable here on LuLa."

What a coward you are.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 06:50:20 pm by TechTalk »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12033 on: October 27, 2021, 03:26:48 pm »

So my Lincoln car lease is running out in January.  So I checked with the dealer and to lease an equivalent car now will cost me $200 more per month higher than I'm paying now.  That's nuts! I didn't bother to ask about the upfront charge which I'm sure is a lot more than last time too.  They don't expect more new cars until the third quarter of 2022.  So when I asked him how business was he said it was actually pretty good.  Although they only have 17 cars of my model in the lot when normally they have 40, they're making up in higher price profits for each car sold even though they're selling fewer cars. Forget prices below the MSRP. (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price)  They are charging way above them.  All the dealers are doing it and getting way higher prices.  Never seen anything like that before.  It's a seller's market like I never have seen. 

Looks like I'll have to extend my lease six months or a year.  The problem is I don't think anything is going to change later when the extension ends.  At least I won't have to wait for a new foreign car floating on a cargo ship off California.  Anyone finding the same issues?  How are you handling it?

Don't worry! Janet Yellen says that this is just a transitory inflation. Everything should return to normal in a few months.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 03:44:47 pm by LesPalenik »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12034 on: October 27, 2021, 03:33:18 pm »

Alan doesn't like people to presume knowing what he thinks or claiming that he said something to which he appears to object.


Unless, he's the one that's doing it.
The replies to that statement from Alan...


Alan also doesn't believe in personal attacks. "That's unacceptable here on LuLa."

Excellent, TechTalk.  For the considerable amount of work to accumulate, curate and post all that evidence, thank you.

Not that it will make the slightest bit of difference to Alan.  As with much of The Right (and fourteen-year-olds) he values opinion, hearsay and faith, not fact.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12035 on: October 27, 2021, 03:37:22 pm »

Don't worry! Janice Yellen says that this is just a transitory inflation. Everything should return to normal in a few months.

Do you mean Janet Yellen? That's doesn't appear to be a very accurate paraphrasing of her remarks.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/yellen-sees-inflation-staying-higher-for-the-next-several-months

Yellen told CNBC that the various issues that have colluded to push up prices likely will pass though she’s not sure how long that will take.

“Supply bottlenecks have developed that have caused inflation,” she said during a live “Squawk Box” interview. “I believe that they’re transitory, but that doesn’t mean they’ll go away over the next several months.”

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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12036 on: October 27, 2021, 03:39:20 pm »

Rather than responding to my points and making your own, you again attack me personally.
 
That's because your "points" are mostly not worth responding to.  They're devoid of value. Empty. Often false.
Make some valid, thoughtful, factual points and we might respond to them.

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That's unacceptable here on LuLa.
Who made you King of Lula?
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12037 on: October 27, 2021, 03:55:31 pm »

Excellent, TechTalk.  For the considerable amount of work to accumulate, curate and post all that evidence, thank you.

Honestly, it wasn't much work at all. When someone has asserted that you have racist beliefs and accused you of lying, as Alan has claimed of me, you tend to remember what they've said. His response, if any, will be that he's the real victim of personal attacks if past responses are any indicator.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12038 on: October 27, 2021, 03:57:43 pm »

Do you mean Janet Yellen? That's doesn't appear to be a very accurate paraphrasing of her remarks.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/yellen-sees-inflation-staying-higher-for-the-next-several-months
Yellen told CNBC that the various issues that have colluded to push up prices likely will pass though she’s not sure how long that will take.
“Supply bottlenecks have developed that have caused inflation,” she said during a live “Squawk Box” interview. “I believe that they’re transitory, but that doesn’t mean they’ll go away over the next several months.”

Thank you for correcting Yellen's name. She says all kinds of things.
Her "transitory inflation" remark was reported by Bloomberg, but that article is behind a paywall.

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Yellen Sees Recent Inflation as Transitory Rather Than Permanent
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-05/yellen-sees-recent-inflation-as-transitory-rather-than-permanent

Here is a CNN article which reports it in different words, but along the same lines.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/24/politics/janet-yellen-inflation-labor-market-cnntv/index.html
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12039 on: October 27, 2021, 04:13:12 pm »

Quote
Yellen Sees Recent Inflation as Transitory Rather Than Permanent

That seems reasonable. The pandemic caused a sharp decrease in economic activity which has since resumed with some rapidity. That's caused a large economic shock wave that will take time to resolve, but there's no reason to anticipate that it's permanent.

From the CNN article that you linked...

US inflation levels are not expected to decrease to acceptable levels until the latter part of 2022, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said Sunday.

Yellen said she expects the bottlenecks to subside as progress is made on the coronavrius pandemic and she predicted that Americans will return to the workforce as conditions improve. Asked about the record number of Americans leaving jobs and what the Biden administration is doing to get people back to work, Yellen said, "We have a good, tight labor market."

"Firms are obviously having trouble hiring workers, but labor supply is depressed by the pandemic," she said. "That's because of health concerns, because of childcare, and as we get beyond the pandemic, I expect labor supply to increase."


She says all kinds of things.

But, she didn't say...

Everything should return to normal in a few months.

US inflation levels are not expected to decrease to acceptable levels until the latter part of 2022, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said Sunday.


« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 04:40:44 pm by TechTalk »
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