Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

More counterfactual historical baloney. So much to correct in just one sentence!

First, the war began in 1775, a year prior to the Declaration of Independence. The Continental Army was formed in June 1775 following the Battles of Lexington and Concord two months earlier that began the war. Covert aid in supplies, munitions, and financing from France began shortly thereafter, much of it channeled thru the French and Dutch West Indies, and continued unofficially until a formal treaty of alliance was signed in February 1778. The supplies and assistance from France from the beginning were crucial to maintaining the army and its ability to fight in the earliest years of the war.

The Battles of Saratoga, in September and October of 1777, were the first major turning point of the war. By this time, France had financed and supplied a vast amount of the war materials needed. Historians estimate that 90% of the arms and nearly all of the gun powder used by the Americans at Saratoga were supplied by France.

It wasn't only material support that came from France prior to the formal alliance. Washington and the Continental Congress realized there was an urgent need for experienced military engineers. Silas Deane, the same American envoy sent to enlist French material support, was also tasked with recruiting volunteer French officers. A Lt. Colonel in the French Royal Corps of Engineers, Louis Lebègue Duportail was secretly sent by France in March, 1777 and appointed as commander of all engineers in the Continental Army in July 1777.

Other French officers were enlisted as well. The most famous, the Marquis de Lafayette, was enlisted by Deane as a major general in the Continental Army in December 1776 and he arrived in June 1777. He was wounded in battle a few months later but stayed with Washington, who gave him command of an American division, and encamped at Valley Forge for the winter. Another French officer that arrived in 1777, and served as a military engineer with Lafayette, was Pierre Charles L'Enfant. L'Enfant is known for developing the basic plan for Washington, D.C., as well as his service in the war, during which he was also wounded.

After the French-American alliance was formalized in February 1778, France dispatched thousands of troops as well as naval forces. The crucial Battle of Yorktown in 1781, that resulted in the surrender of Cornwallis and his encircled army, was half French and half American soldiers with a French fleet blocking British escape by sea. The American Army was led by Washington and Lafayette with the French army led by Rochambeau with Washington having command of the combined forces.

Your dismissiveness of the role that France played in the initial stages of the war and their critical contribution to winning it are a disservice to history. It is, however, consistent with your recent comments dismissive of the need for America to have allies in Europe.

France officially entered the War for Independence on America's side in 1778.  It was then they were at war with GB.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-American_alliance
Not much different than aid America gave to Britain (Lend Lease etc.) in WWII prior to officially going to war with Nazi Germany in Dec 1941.  France figured America would lose its War for Independence.  It's not the same thing to give arms on the one hand and become a active belligerent to GB on the other.  It took Benjamin Franklin some long and sweet convincing of the French king and a win on the battlefield for America to get France to actually join the fight in 1778.  It's like the US giving arms to Saudi Arabia but not actually being at war with Yemen.

Please don't lecture me on this War.  I studied and in fact created a complete walking and driving tour of all the sites for the Battle of Long Island in New York, the first and largest battle of the war.  The French weren't fighting.
https://www.geocaching.com/plan/lists/BMKPBC?sort=name&sortOrder=asc&skip=0&take=10

[Alan Klein]

You think maybe that could be due to the fact that many New Jersey municipalities have nonpartisan local elections and Paterson is one of them? Candidates run for municipal office as individuals, not as representatives or nominees of political parties under the New Jersey "Uniform Nonpartisan Elections Law". Other municipalities may have partisan elections depending on their type of municipality classification under NJ law.

Just saying, you might want to look at your assumptions once in awhile.

I found this article that says all four are Democrats. Figures. It also describes the criminal laws they violated.
 
4 Democrats, a Paterson Councilman, Councilman-elect and 2 others Arrested on Election Fraud Charges
https://theridgewoodblog.net/4-democrats-a-paterson-councilman-councilman-elect-and-2-others-arrested-on-election-fraud-charges/

[Alan Klein]

How many other countries never reported the real number of covid deaths?  Actual numbers in Mexico makes it the second or third highest in the world.  Cuomo's getting around.

Mexico's real Covid-19 death toll now at over 321,000 - 60 per cent higher than official figures
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/mexicos-real-covid-19-death-toll-now-at-over-321000-60-per-cent-higher-than-official-figures/HLLSLH5NHPKT32TZTTFU6FKPJM/

[PeterAit]

You mean old Republican voters like me don't deserve water too?  Your argument is silly.  If someone thinks they need water, or sugar because they're a diabetic, or just like a snack, let them take a sandwich and a Coke from home.  This rule is trying to stop electioneering near the polls, a worthy endeavor.  It's a small part of a total overall plan to assure there's no fraud in elections and to make voting easier with other methods.  What the Democrats want is to do their usually finagling during elections.  They'll be out there handing out bottles of water with the picture of their Decmorat candidate emblazoned on the front of the bottle.

Sure you deserve water and a snack, but with this law you won't get them. But then again you, like me I believe, are in situations where standing in long voting lines is not necessary.

People can't plan for long lines and bring their own stuff. And your whole argument dissolves into nothingness because electioneering near the polls is already prohibited. Giving out water is NOT electioneering. You could not have candidate names on the bottles or chat the voter up to encourage one candidate. The WHOLE POINT is to encourage voters to stay in line and vote even if they are tired, thirsty, and hungry. And who is to say these voters are not GOP supporters? Oh wait--the long lines seem to occur only in Dem leaning precincts. Where the GOP state legislatures have done everything they can to make it more difficult for people to vote.

 

[Robert Roaldi]

Apparently according to this article, that's exactly what the regulation does.  So what's the problem? 

Quote: "Another new rule that affects both in-person early voting and election day voting would prohibit anyone except poll workers from handing out water to voters in line, and outlaw passing out food and water to voters within 150 feet of the building that serves as a poll, inside a polling place or within 25 feet of any voter standing in line. Depending on the location, it is still possible for third-party groups to have food and water available  — and it is possible for the lines to extend beyond 150 feet."
https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/

Are the people lining up to vote also required to be a minimum of 25 feet (or 150 feet) from their Twitter feed?

But I notice that you did not answer my earlier question. Do you think it's consistent with calling your country the greatest democracy on earth to have state legislatures trying to make it more difficult for people to vote? I can't believe that you think that's a good idea, unless you think that it will help your boys more than the other guys. Is it ok to screw with basic democratic principles just so your guys can win? Is that what you're about?

[Alan Klein]

Are the people lining up to vote also required to be a minimum of 25 feet (or 150 feet) from their Twitter feed?

But I notice that you did not answer my earlier question. Do you think it's consistent with calling your country the greatest democracy on earth to have state legislatures trying to make it more difficult for people to vote? I can't believe that you think that's a good idea, unless you think that it will help your boys more than the other guys. Is it ok to screw with basic democratic principles just so your guys can win? Is that what you're about?

I have no idea what Twitter feed you mean.  I don't do Twitter.

Regarding laws and voting, I believe all people who can vote should be allowed to vote if they choose too and we should set up laws to prevent all fraudulent voting.  I read the law in Georgia.  IT seemed very consistent with this and moderate in their rules. 

Now I have a question for you. Why should your Canada and probably most other countries have ID requirements but America should waive its requirements?  That's what Democrats want us to do. 

[jeremyrh]

Now I have a question for you. Why should your Canada and probably most other countries have ID requirements but America should waive its requirements?  That's what Democrats want us to do.

It could be because in Canada there is not such racism and inequality that strict ID requirements don't result in disenfranchisement of a specific demographic.

[Alan Klein]

It could be because in Canada there is not such racism and inequality that strict ID requirements don't result in disenfranchisement of a specific demographic.

So you think Black Americans are ignorant.  That they're still picking cotton and don't know how to get an ID when ID's are required to get into an office or public building, drive, have a bank account,  or to get welfare or food stamps if they're poor.  Maybe we should stick black people's thumbs into purple ink after they vote as they did in Iraq to prevent double-voting since they're incapable of showing identity and signing their names on the voting list at the voting place like white people do.  Do you realize how insulting and racist your opinion of black people is? 

[TechTalk]

France officially [Blah, Blah, Blah]

Please don't lecture me on this War.

Please don't post nonsense like "France didn't help America until we started to win in 1778" and I won't have to spend time correcting it. Also, in your response to my correction, you posted a Wikipedia link to an article on the 1778 official French-American alliance. I guess in your mind that article was helpful, but it only gave brief background information to French help provided prior to 1778. Perhaps that's why you chose it.

You may find these enlightening...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War

"Up against the British power, the young nation lacked arms and allies, and so it turned towards France." "French involvement in the American Revolutionary War of 1775–1783 began in 1775, when France... secretly shipped supplies to the Continental Army when it was established in June 1775." "France's help was a major and decisive contribution towards the United States' eventual victory and independence in the war." "The aid given by France... contributed to George Washington's survival against the British onslaught in 1776 and 1777." "The aid was also a major factor in the defeat of General Burgoyne's expedition in the Champlain corridor that ended in a British disaster at Saratoga. [1777]" "France provided significant economic aid, either as donations or loans, and also offered technical assistance, granting some of its military strategists "vacations" so they could assist American troops."

And the intriguing story of the company set up to disguise French aid prior to its official entry is worthy of a great deal more reading, but this is a start...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderigue_Hortalez_and_Company

"Roderigue Hortalez and Company was a corporation created by Luis de Unzaga as coordinator of interests of Spain and France in May of 1775 in order to provide arms and financial assistance to American Revolutionaries in anticipation of the American Revolutionary War against Britain." "Before the Declaration of Independence was even signed, weapons and other necessities were already flowing via the ostensibly neutral Dutch island of St. Eustatius. Muskets, cannons, cannonballs, gunpowder, bombs, mortars, tents, and enough clothing for 30,000 men were sent. This assistance kept American hopes alive during the spring of 1776."

[LesPalenik]

Filmmaker Ken Burns said in an interview that Trump and his allies have damaged the country by promoting the "big lie" of widespread election fraud while profiting from it.

Documentary filmmaker Ken Burns, known for expansive movies on quintessential American subjects like "Jazz" and "Baseball," said in a new interview that former President Donald Trump and his allies have damaged the country by promoting the "big lie" of widespread election fraud — and worse yet, they've made money off of it.

Burns said the media environment allows people to make significant amounts of money off of false public comments, and he contrasted such misinformation with his accurate and complex stories about major events and themes of American history. "There are a lot of people out there making lots of money on [lies], and it's being exploited — and the big lie is part of the combination of that," says Burns, whose new three-part film "Hemingway" premieres on April 5. "If you look at the big lie, the ex-president's team raised something like $250 million between the election and the inauguration to just support something that is just factually not true," he adds.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ken-burns-people-are-making-lots-of-money-off-election-fraud-135805593.html

[Robert Roaldi]

So you think Black Americans are ignorant.  That they're still picking cotton and don't know how to get an ID when ID's are required to get into an office or public building, drive, have a bank account,  or to get welfare or food stamps if they're poor.  Maybe we should stick black people's thumbs into purple ink after they vote as they did in Iraq to prevent double-voting since they're incapable of showing identity and signing their names on the voting list at the voting place like white people do.  Do you realize how insulting and racist your opinion of black people is?

Too bad widespread studies of gerrymandering and voter suppression measures negate every word of that. From which alt-right site did you cut/paste this silly propaganda?

[digitaldog]

So you think Black Americans are ignorant. 

I know one old white guy from NJ is!

[TechTalk]

So you think... Do you realize how insulting and racist your opinion of black people is?

You have a really bad habit of shoving your words and opinions into the mouths of others. It's rude and unnecessary.

[Alan Klein]

Please don't post nonsense like "France didn't help America until we started to win in 1778" and I won't have to spend time correcting it. Also, in your response to my correction, you posted a Wikipedia link to an article on the 1778 official French-American alliance. I guess in your mind that article was helpful, but it only gave brief background information to French help provided prior to 1778. Perhaps that's why you chose it.

You may find these enlightening...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War

"Up against the British power, the young nation lacked arms and allies, and so it turned towards France." "French involvement in the American Revolutionary War of 1775–1783 began in 1775, when France... secretly shipped supplies to the Continental Army when it was established in June 1775." "France's help was a major and decisive contribution towards the United States' eventual victory and independence in the war." "The aid given by France... contributed to George Washington's survival against the British onslaught in 1776 and 1777." "The aid was also a major factor in the defeat of General Burgoyne's expedition in the Champlain corridor that ended in a British disaster at Saratoga. [1777]" "France provided significant economic aid, either as donations or loans, and also offered technical assistance, granting some of its military strategists "vacations" so they could assist American troops."

And the intriguing story of the company set up to disguise French aid prior to its official entry is worthy of a great deal more reading, but this is a start...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderigue_Hortalez_and_Company

"Roderigue Hortalez and Company was a corporation created by Luis de Unzaga as coordinator of interests of Spain and France in May of 1775 in order to provide arms and financial assistance to American Revolutionaries in anticipation of the American Revolutionary War against Britain." "Before the Declaration of Independence was even signed, weapons and other necessities were already flowing via the ostensibly neutral Dutch island of St. Eustatius. Muskets, cannons, cannonballs, gunpowder, bombs, mortars, tents, and enough clothing for 30,000 men were sent. This assistance kept American hopes alive during the spring of 1776."

In the first battle of the war in 1776, the Battle of Long Island, and the largest during the entire war that didn't end until 1783, the French were not there and their muskets were not apparently available.  The Americans, poorly trained and less in number, were whipped brutally and totally, losing all of New York, Brooklyn and Long Island for the entire war to the Brits who had around 40,000 men and 400 ships and boats when they attacked.  The point is, until 1778 when they actually joined the war on American's side, the French including their arms were of little consequence.

If you linked to my earlier geochacing site, you saw I visited every battle area in the five boros of NYC photographing every detail.  Here's another description of the battle. Americans were inadequately prepared, by France or anyone else.


Battle of Long Island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Long_Island#Casualties
Washington had been authorized by Congress to recruit an army of up to 28,501 troops, but he had only 19,000 when he reached New York.[23] Military discipline was inadequate; routine orders were not carried out, muskets were fired in camp, flints were ruined, bayonets were used as knives to cut food, and firearm readiness was lax.[24] Petty internal conflict was common under the strain of a large number of people from different environments and temperaments living in relative proximity.[25]

Commander of the artillery Henry Knox persuaded Washington to transfer 400 to 500 soldiers, who lacked muskets or guns, to crew the artillery.[21]



 
 

[Alan Klein]

Too bad widespread studies of gerrymandering and voter suppression measures negate every word of that. From which alt-right site did you cut/paste this silly propaganda?

You're moving the goalposts and creating a strawman.  We are discussing voter election rules and regulations, not gerrymandering. 

[Alan Klein]

You have a really bad habit of shoving your words and opinions into the mouths of others. It's rude and unnecessary.

You mean like your post to me:- "Please don't post nonsense like..."

[TechTalk]

In the first battle of the war in 1776, the Battle of Long Island [Blah, Blah, Blah]...

Please stop your butchering of history! I love history and it irritates me, but may bother others far less.

The first battle with Washington leading the Continental Army was the Siege of Boston in 1775 following Concord and Lexington.

You can keep trying to shovel your way out of your false historical assertions, but I'm not interested in following you down the rabbit holes you like to dig. So you can keep digging and go down your own rabbit holes alone. Take a good book with you.

[jeremyrh]

So you think Black Americans are ignorant.

Nope, and nothing I wrote implies that,

so ...

  Do you realize how insulting and racist your opinion of black people is?

is just more of your patent blend of BS.

[TechTalk]

You mean like your post to me:- "Please don't post nonsense like..."

I quote your words exactly and give my own words in response. You put words and opinions into the mouths of others. You apparently can't tell the difference.

[Alan Klein]

Please stop your butchering of history! I love history and it irritates me, but may bother others far less.

The first battle with Washington leading the Continental Army was the Siege of Boston in 1775 following Concord and Lexington.

You can keep trying to shovel your way out of your false historical assertions, but I'm not interested in following you down the rabbit holes you like to dig. So you can keep digging and go down your own rabbit holes alone. Take a good book with you.

The War for Independence (American revolutionary War) didn't officially start until we declared our independence on July 4, 1776.  Sure there were disputes and battles and a Continental army created to protect American property and demanding respect from Britain during 1775.  But there wasn't an official break with Great Britain until July 4, 1776 when we issued our Declaration of Independence and effectively declared War on Great BRitain.  Othersie we'd be celebrating our independence day from 1775, not July 4, 1776.  It was then that the Battle of Long Island (NY and Brooklyn), the first and largest battle of the War after declaring independence,  occurred when Britain sent their armies and fleets to NY to quiet the rebellion.  It is true Washington fought and captured Boston in  1775 which probably caused the British to send their armies in 1776 to NY.  Washington allowed the British to leave Boston  itafter they threatened to burn down if he didn't.  There was a good movie on this a couple of weeks ago on TV. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War