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The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: Alan Klein on January 31, 2020, 05:33:14 pm

Title: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on January 31, 2020, 05:33:14 pm
Enough with Trump already.  Let's leave some oxygen for everyone else.  So what's going on with the Democrats?  Will Biden pull it out?  Will America go for a Soviet?  Will Bloomberg get the nod in a brokered convention? Does anyone care?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on January 31, 2020, 06:26:13 pm
As to the democrat nomination for a President, Pete Buttigieg should switch to the other party. He would bring a breath of fresh air to GOP, save the party and easily win. I'd vote for him.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on January 31, 2020, 07:47:01 pm
He could bring his husband with him.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on January 31, 2020, 09:03:17 pm
non sequitur
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: PeterAit on February 03, 2020, 10:31:25 am
He could bring his husband with him.

That's a really nasty and bigoted statement. You should be ashamed. Maybe you are revealing your real self.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 03, 2020, 11:14:05 am
That's a really nasty and bigoted statement. You should be ashamed. Maybe you are revealing your real self.

As of when are facts “nasty and bigoted”?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: PeterAit on February 03, 2020, 11:36:06 am
As of when are facts “nasty and bigoted”?

Because if Buttegeig were straight and had a female partner, no one would even think of saying "he can bring his wife along."
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 03, 2020, 11:46:40 am
Because if Buttegeig were straight and had a female partner, no one would even think of saying "he can bring his wife along."

By golly, you actually said something that makes sense, Peter. hallelujah! Yes. He COULD bring his wife along. Most presidents do that. But he has a husband. I can see you don't think that would make any difference in the election.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 03, 2020, 01:36:36 pm
Because if Buttegeig were straight and had a female partner...

He would have a chance  ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 03, 2020, 02:20:00 pm
He might have a chance to be the Dem nominee, Slobodan, but not a prayer of being elected President.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 03, 2020, 02:29:54 pm
I think it is pretty obvious at this point, Sanders gets it, unless the rules are changed in the 11th hour to allow super delegates to vote in the first round. 

I was listening to Ben Shapiro today, and say what you will about him being too brash, I think he hit the nail on the head as to why.  The Dems, over the last 10 years, have been building on intersectional politics and the idea that America is inherently prejudice to many different types of people, which is what Sanders is running on.  We are now at the point where this argument has been played out in its entirety and the (unintended) logical conclusion is that the country is evil and needs to be fundamentally changed in every aspect.  Listen to any Bernie supporter or look at Bernie's plans, this is what his campaign is about. 

Now saying otherwise pretty much destroys intersectional politics, which means no one in the party can say this, and that is why no one can beat him in the primary. 

The Dems have put themselves in a place where they can not use their best case against Sanders, that being that America is a great country, perhaps in need of some improvements but still one of the greatest causes of good in the history of the world and does not need to be fundamentally changed (which is what most Americans believe). 

Biden cant say this without being destroyed by the press. 

However Trump can, and that is why Sanders will pull the entire Democratic party down with him when he wins. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 03, 2020, 02:38:42 pm
He could bring his husband with him.

Nothing wrong with Melania. Why not leave her in the White House?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 03, 2020, 03:31:33 pm
He might have a chance to be the Dem nominee, Slobodan, but not a prayer of being elected President.

Why not?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 03, 2020, 03:57:28 pm
I know it's hard to make contact with the facts from over there in the Netherlands, Bart, just as it's impossible for Bernard to make contact from Japan, or for Peter Alt to make contact from North Carolina, but people in the United States just aren't ready for a guy with a husband. Then there's his crappy record as mayor of a small city. Then there's the fact that he smeared Trump voters as people who ignore racism -- a lot like Hillary and the "deplorables." I could go on, but there's no way any of these turkeys is going to become President of the U.S.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 03, 2020, 04:22:33 pm
I know it's hard to make contact with the facts from over there in the Netherlands, Bart, just as it's impossible for Bernard to make contact from Japan, or for Peter Alt to make contact from North Carolina, but people in the United States just aren't ready for a guy with a husband. Then there's his crappy record as mayor of a small city. Then there's the fact that he smeared Trump voters as people who ignore racism -- a lot like Hillary and the "deplorables." I could go on, but there's no way any of these turkeys is going to become President of the U.S.

No Russ, it's not that hard to get information about what's going on in other countries. We get it that almost half of the US population has a  rather conservative mindset, compared to other western civilizations.

What is more difficult (but not impossible) to understand is why their ideological dogmas are so stubborn, and people with a normal IQ are so closed to things like science. Maybe they are afraid of the future, and would rather live in the (familiar) past?

The Second World War also has something to do with the fact that (European) countries that have experienced occupation by a foreign power may be more alert to the signals that could point to precursors of a similar situation.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 03, 2020, 05:49:01 pm
people in the United States just aren't ready for a guy with a husband.

1) says who?  (besides you)
2) why not?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 03, 2020, 06:24:47 pm
If we really said what we thought Jeremy would shut down the thread.  Let me give it a shot in any case.   Americans don't want their presidents getting screwed internationally or domestically.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 03, 2020, 06:33:48 pm
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 03, 2020, 07:34:08 pm
Another satire, I know, but from a different site this time.

DNC Mulls Asking Donald Trump To Run As Democrat In Effort To Stop Sanders (https://politics.theonion.com/dnc-mulls-asking-donald-trump-to-run-as-democrat-in-eff-1841432132?utm_source=Facebook&utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&fbclid=IwAR1cGxmeunhXdKFGJzPEAQ7urD_uDEoMKEUAwMSVC1v0K53VZrPvATedDvY)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 03, 2020, 07:38:16 pm
:)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 03, 2020, 07:39:09 pm
Another satire, I know, but from a different site this time.

DNC Mulls Asking Donald Trump To Run As Democrat In Effort To Stop Sanders (https://politics.theonion.com/dnc-mulls-asking-donald-trump-to-run-as-democrat-in-eff-1841432132?utm_source=Facebook&utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&fbclid=IwAR1cGxmeunhXdKFGJzPEAQ7urD_uDEoMKEUAwMSVC1v0K53VZrPvATedDvY)

That website reports also that Elizabeth Warren Was Disappointed After DNA Test Shows Zero Trace Of Presidential Material.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 03, 2020, 07:40:07 pm
That website reports also that Elizabeth Warren Was Disappointed After DNA Test Shows Zero Trace Of Presidential Material.

OMG, that is great!   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 03, 2020, 07:48:32 pm
1) says who?  (besides you)
2) why not?

A majority, Peter. And are you telling me that in western Canada they don't understand why?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 03, 2020, 07:48:42 pm
That website reports also that Elizabeth Warren Was Disappointed After DNA Test Shows Zero Trace Of Presidential Material.
:)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 03, 2020, 07:52:35 pm
A majority, Peter. And are you telling me that in western Canada they don't understand why?
The left calling everyone a bigot and racist all the time if you have a belief that they don't approve, have many people afraid to speak their minds. That's why everyone was surprised when Trump won.  The secrecy of the ballot box allows people to speak up.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 05:19:25 am
Iowa election fiasco.
The idea was actually quite simple: All results should be sent digitally to the party headquarters. Then chaos broke out.
A district chief who was struggling with the new technology was on hold for an hour before the hotline kicked him out. An election officer passed on the results in desperation via Twitter. Others were asked to photograph the handwritten ballot papers and email the photos to the party.

Quote
CNN judge Jeffrey Toobin joked: “Breaking news, Democrats announce that Volodymyr Selenskyj won the Iowa election.”

Pete Buttigieg did well, but he needs the Republican IT techs and organization. Biden said, “We have a good feeling”.

https://www.en24.news/A/2020/02/us-iowa-primaries-democrats-disgrace-themselves-with-election-chaos.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 04, 2020, 05:51:34 am
Iowa election fiasco...

https://www.en24.news/A/2020/02/us-iowa-primaries-democrats-disgrace-themselves-with-election-chaos.html

Yet they want to run a country. Reminds me of the botched Obamacare website launch.

In Democrats defense, they are not quite at home in the American Heartland, among all those rubes.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 06:02:44 am
Must be the Russian hackers playing with that Demo voting app.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 04, 2020, 07:31:34 am
Must be the Russian hackers playing with that Demo voting app.

 ;D ;D 8)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 07:35:34 am
If not that, the Dems running the Iowa show must be unbelievably incompetent.
I helped out in several Canadian elections, and we did all the counting manually. It took about about 2-3 hours for each voting station after the closing, and the main election office was adding the station votes continuously as they came in and releasing immediately the intermediate results to the news channels. Even if the Iowa country bumpkins were not the brightest bulbs in those voting rooms, they could have done the complete recount easily by midnight and released the numbers shortly after.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 04, 2020, 07:41:11 am
If not that, the Dems running the Iowa show must be unbelievably incompetent.

Golly! Do you suppose?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 07:58:16 am
If not that, the Dems running the Iowa show must be unbelievably incompetent.
I helped out in several Canadian elections, and we did all the counting manually. It took about about 2-3 hours for each voting station after the closing, and the main election office was adding the station votes continuously as they came in and releasing immediately the intermediate results to the news channels. Even if the Iowa country bumpkins were not the brightest bulbs in those voting rooms, they could have done the complete recount easily by midnight and released the numbers shortly after.

They had to get home to go to sleep because they get up early to milk the cows.  The presidency can wait.  I'm sure Trump will speak of the democrat incompetence to run the country and screw up a good economy at his State-of-the-Union speech to Congress tonight.  HIs point will be, do you want to bet on a horse that trips out-of-the-gate? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 08:06:24 am
Iowa election fiasco.
The idea was actually quite simple: All results should be sent digitally to the party headquarters. Then chaos broke out.
A district chief who was struggling with the new technology was on hold for an hour before the hotline kicked him out. An election officer passed on the results in desperation via Twitter. Others were asked to photograph the handwritten ballot papers and email the photos to the party.

Pete Buttigieg did well, but he needs the Republican IT techs and organization. Biden said, “We have a good feeling”.

https://www.en24.news/A/2020/02/us-iowa-primaries-democrats-disgrace-themselves-with-election-chaos.html
Wasn't Biden the one who said that every time he heard Obama speak, he would get a tingle up his leg?  Maybe it was Buttigieg.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 08:17:06 am
They had to get home to go to sleep because they get up early to milk the cows.  The presidency can wait.  I'm sure Trump will speak of the democrat incompetence to run the country and screw up a good economy at his State-of-the-Union speech to Congress tonight.  HIs point will be, do you want to bet on a horse that trips out-of-the-gate?

That can't be it. Unlike the Iowa caucuses, their cow milking is fully automated, using the latest technology. It works every time, to the satisfaction of both, the farmers and the cows.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 08:37:03 am
That can't be it. Unlike the Iowa caucuses, their cow milking is fully automated, using the latest technology. It works every time, to the satisfaction of both, the farmers and the cows.

Well, milking cows are more important than electing a president. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 08:56:03 am
The strange thing is that the increased dairy consumption is said to improve the brain's cognitive function, so the Iowans should be sharp as tacks.

Quote
Emerging evidence suggests that milk products may play a beneficial role in improving cognitive function and thus aid in thought processing and mental ability.

However, this report has been released by the dairy association, so it may be biased. I always suspected that the dairy industry spreads out fake news.

https://www.dairynutrition.ca/scientific-evidence/roles-on-certain-health-conditions/cognitive-function-and-milk-products
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 09:04:57 am
The strange thing is that the increased dairy consumption is said to improve the brain's cognitive function, so the Iowans should be sharp as tacks.

However, this report has been released by the dairy association, so it may be biased. I always suspected that the dairy industry spreads out fake news.

https://www.dairynutrition.ca/scientific-evidence/roles-on-certain-health-conditions/cognitive-function-and-milk-products

Well, the smart ones are Republicans. :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 09:07:59 am
"The Democrat Caucus is an unmitigated disaster. Nothing works, just like they ran the Country," Trump tweeted.

He hasn't wasted any time getting his digs in.  Tonight's state of the union speech will give him an opportunity to stick it to them nationally. 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/04/politics/election-2020-iowa-caucuses-democrats-donald-trump/index.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 09:17:26 am
Well, the smart ones are Republicans. :)

They must have used a different app. Or did the counting manually.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 09:28:46 am
Everyone is knocking the caucus system in Iowa.  But Republicans caucused as well and it went without a hitch.  (Trump won as expected.)  Of course, the fake news media won't talk about how Republicans seem to know what they're doing.  Americans have usually felt that way over the decades, that they are better running the country than Democrats.   Maybe it has something to do with competency. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 04, 2020, 09:30:49 am
They must have used a different app. Or did the counting manually.

https://apple.news/AREzdWIEXRQuS5xltq5ikRQ

“Iowa caucus app: no security vetting, no testing, no training, says NYT report”
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 09:33:12 am
https://apple.news/AREzdWIEXRQuS5xltq5ikRQ

“Iowa caucus app: no security vetting, no testing, no training, says NYT report”
Who needs Russians?  Maybe the Democrats hacked their own APP?  No one is going to believe the results.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 09:41:55 am
https://apple.news/AREzdWIEXRQuS5xltq5ikRQ

“Iowa caucus app: no security vetting, no testing, no training, says NYT report”

Most likely, they outsourced the programming to India. Prudent decision, the Indians promise savings up to 70%, compared with the American programmers.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Adam L on February 04, 2020, 09:48:35 am
Take a look (on LinkedIn) at who is behind the app.   Shadow Inc is made up of all ex-Hillary Clinton operatives.   

Gerard Niemira is CEO of Shadow Inc. In 2015, he was senior product manager for Hillary Clinton's campaign, developing tools for field teams to contact voters. And in 2016, he was in charge of the tools used by volunteers.  He worked as an intern for Rep. Eliot Engel in 2005.

Ahna Rao was special assistant to CTO for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign. She worked for Merlon Intelligence, which uses tools to identify money laundering. She also was an intern at USAID for 3 months and an intern for House Foreign Affairs Committee for 4 months in 2010.

James Hickey is COO of Shadow Inc. He was engineering manager for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign and worked for Sprinklr, a "customer experience management" platform. Also previously worked as IT consultant for Bloomberg Philanthropies in 2012-2013.

Krista Davis is CTO/Chief Architect. She was a staff backend software engineer for Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign.

Sarah Chabolla is the director of organizing and client success at Shadow Inc. She was a regional organizing director for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign.

 :o
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 04, 2020, 09:54:02 am
Just Democrats doing their thing, Adam.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 10:00:13 am
Take a look (on LinkedIn) at who is behind the app.   Shadow Inc is made up of all ex-Hillary Clinton operatives.   

They are hiring now.

Quote
Shadow is looking for passionate people, committed to advancing progressive values and helping elect progressive, Democratic candidates.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 10:11:25 am
They are hiring now.


They should have hired the people who ran the Trump IT programs during the 2016 election.  Why hire the losing side's people?  What was their pitch?  "Look, you should hire us to run the Iowa program because we were successful in helping Hillary lose the election."
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 04, 2020, 10:13:27 am
That website reports also that Elizabeth Warren Was Disappointed After DNA Test Shows Zero Trace Of Presidential Material.

LOL, that's a funny wordplay.  :D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 10:16:39 am
New Trump tweet backing Sanders, : ""The DNC on Bernie Sanders, “Looks like they’re going to do it to him again, doesn’t it?”".

Sanders supporters are up in arms about a string of reports that the Democratic establishment is panicking over his rise in the polls — and are looking into options to cut him down to size.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-trump-bernie-sanders-dnc-iowa-20200203-dufagmhwmraexby5yetkwe3nla-story.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Adam L on February 04, 2020, 10:18:35 am
There were three strategic needs surrounding the Iowa caucuses:  Hide the collapse of Joe Biden; Diminish the win by Bernie Sanders; and cover-up a less than enthusiastic voter turnout.  It seems they've done a splendid job on all three.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 04, 2020, 10:18:46 am
Well, the smart ones are Republicans. :)

Yes, with the help of the Russians.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 04, 2020, 10:27:00 am
Memes continue:
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 04, 2020, 10:29:57 am
https://apple.news/AREzdWIEXRQuS5xltq5ikRQ

“Iowa caucus app: no security vetting, no testing, no training, says NYT report”

Makes me think of the Obama Care website. 

"Hey Michelle, I think your college roommate can handle this, right?"
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 04, 2020, 10:32:12 am
There were three strategic needs surrounding the Iowa caucuses:  Hide the collapse of Joe Biden; Diminish the win by Bernie Sanders; and cover-up a less than enthusiastic voter turnout.  It seems they've done a splendid job on all three.

As funny as this is, and as much as we know this was not really intentional, I very much doubt the Bernie Bros will be of the same opinion. 

I really hope Milwaukee is putting together a rock solid emergency riot plan for the convention. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 10:32:36 am
Memes continue:
Looks like a great plan.  We can all get to sleep earlier instead of staying up with all fake news cable stations.  Of course the losing sides will complain with this also. "Mary stepped passed the foul line when she took her swing.  It's fixed!!"
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 10:40:17 am
As funny as this is, and as much as we know this was not really intentional, I very much doubt the Bernie Bros will be of the same opinion. 

I really hope Milwaukee is putting together a rock solid emergency riot plan for the convention. 

If you wanted to see a political riot, you should have been around for the 1968 democrat convention in Chicago during the Vietnam War protests.  It was a slug fest and the police were rioting as well.  Blood was flying everywhere.  It was like Tiananmen Square or the riots currently in Hong Kong.   Doubt if we'll see that again.  Here's a short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSEZ3jZHmQ4
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 11:57:02 am
The same app that was used in Iowa is set to be used in the Feb. 22 caucuses in Nevada.  Nevada?  Las Vegas?  Anyone want to take a bet they'll be counting on their fingers instead?  I'll give 2 to 1.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/iowa-caucuses-2020-live-updates/2020/02/04/23561bd6-4707-11ea-bc78-8a18f7afcee7_story.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 12:00:40 pm
The same app that was used in Iowa is set to be used in the Feb. 22 caucuses in Nevada.  Nevada?  Las Vegas?  Anyone want to take a bet they'll be counting on their fingers instead?  I'll give 2 to 1.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/iowa-caucuses-2020-live-updates/2020/02/04/23561bd6-4707-11ea-bc78-8a18f7afcee7_story.html

They should use just a roulette table.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 12:01:08 pm
1, 2, 3 ......
https://preview.redd.it/aju4tpcie1vz.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d02a6a380898b40caa803e2a2cc510557270eff5
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 12:02:14 pm
They should use just a roulette table.
It'll probably come up 0 or 00 green. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 02:33:15 pm
The Dems still haven't completed the Iowa Caucuses counting. If they had done it by hand, they could have it done it five times since last night.
 
Meanwhile, Pete Buttigieg's campaign team compiled their own results from the internal unverified data from more than 1,200 precincts and came to a conclusion that they won.
Which is at this time just an unofficial estimate. But if he turns out to be a clear winner, the Dem election team should be fired right then for their incompetency and scandalous handling of last night count. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 04, 2020, 02:37:22 pm
... if he turns out to be a clear winner...

Well, congrats to Mary Buttplug. He made it further than anyone could have predicted.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 02:48:57 pm
Well, congrats to Mary Buttplug. He made it further than anyone could have predicted.

I made this prediction several times since early November. And Joe always laughed it off.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 04, 2020, 02:52:05 pm
I made this prediction several times since early November. And Joe always laughed it off.

Well, we still don't have any results, and I was laughing at the idea of him winning the primary.  I still am btw. 

Considering he is from the Heartland (yes, I know, it is a microaggression now) and put all of his money in Iowa, it makes sense, although not something I thought would happen. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 04, 2020, 02:53:50 pm
I never thought I'd say this, but it appears like Adam Schiff was right. 

If Trump is not impeached, there would be widespread election problems and lost of trust in our institutions.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 03:50:42 pm
Apparently, the software company that made the APP used in the Iowa caucus was called "Shadow".  Most of its key officials worked for the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016. Truth is stranger than fiction.   And we were worried about the Russians.  Where is Mueller when we really need him?

"The firm behind the app is Shadow, an affiliate of ACRONYM, a Democratic nonprofit founded in 2017 “to educate, inspire, register, and mobilize voters,” according to its website. Shadow started out as Groundbase, a tech developer co-founded by Gerard Niemira and Krista Davis, who worked for the tech team on Clinton’s campaign for the 2016 Democratic nomination."

https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-02-04/clinton-campaign-vets-behind-2020-iowa-caucus-app-snafu
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 03:56:54 pm
Already reported by Adam on page 3, with more details about the owners and employees of the company

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=133787.msg1150542#msg1150542
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 04:00:38 pm
Already reported by Adam on page 3, with more details about the owners and employees of the company

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=133787.msg1150542#msg1150542


Thank you Adam.  Sorry I missed it.  I've been on the run. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 04:03:04 pm
They should use just a roulette table.

They took you up on your suggestion.

"Nevada Democratic Party abandons problematic app used in Iowa caucuses"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/04/politics/iowa-caucus-app-issues/index.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 04, 2020, 04:05:31 pm
They took you up on your suggestion.

"Nevada Democratic Party abandons problematic app used in Iowa caucuses"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/04/politics/iowa-caucus-app-issues/index.html
So CNN isn't fake news?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 04:07:03 pm
"Russia Offers to Provide App to Handle American Elections"

A Putin confidant told me that they figure they might as well get paid for what they were going to do anyway.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 04:27:11 pm
So CNN isn't fake news?
Even for CNN, this is pretty hard to spin.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 04, 2020, 04:58:06 pm
Even for CNN, this is pretty hard to spin.
So even though the story is on CNN, you believe it? How do you decide which stories on CNN are true and which are fake?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 05:02:51 pm
So even though the story is on CNN, you believe it? How do you decide which stories on CNN are true and which are fake?
Discernment.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 04, 2020, 05:09:21 pm
So CNN isn't fake news?

That type of comment was perhaps remotely funny the first time. Now it is just yawn-inducing.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 05:42:11 pm
Speaking about CNN, they just reported the official Iowa results. Buttigieg first with 26.9%, followed by Sanders with 25.1%. Warren 18.3%, Biden 15.6%, Klobuchar's 12.6%.
So, Buttigieg's team was more efficient and one day earlier in supplying the results than the official Dem's team. Sounds like he can get things done.

Going ahead, Biden is effectively out of the race, Mike Bloomberg will step in, and Warren will also fall aside. Warren's supporters will give their votes to Bernie, Biden's and Klobuchar's fans to Pete and Bloomberg, and the few Yang's and Steyer's supporters and undecided will switch also to Pete and Bloomberg.

If Bloomberg will ask Pete Buttigieg to join him as VP, that would be a good ticket to beat the Trump and Make America Great Again.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 04, 2020, 06:35:23 pm
...If Bloomberg will ask Pete Buttigieg to join him as VP...

They already have a joint commercial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PceOl_55Bns

“mike bloomberg likes big gay ice cream”
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 04, 2020, 07:29:11 pm
Speaking about CNN, they just reported the official Iowa results. Buttigieg first with 26.9%, followed by Sanders with 25.1%. Warren 18.3%, Biden 15.6%, Klobuchar's 12.6%.
So, Buttigieg's team was more efficient and one day earlier in supplying the results than the official Dem's team. Sounds like he can get things done.

Going ahead, Biden is effectively out of the race, Mike Bloomberg will step in, and Warren will also fall aside. Warren's supporters will give their votes to Bernie, Biden's and Klobuchar's fans to Pete and Bloomberg, and the few Yang's and Steyer's supporters and undecided will switch also to Pete and Bloomberg.

If Bloomberg will ask Pete Buttigieg to join him as VP, that would be a good ticket to beat the Trump and Make America Great Again.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

My brother is a far left winger who is also a Dem consultant, and there are no two other candidates that Bernie Bros hate more then Mayor Pete and Bloomberg.  They absolutely hate them more then Trump.  I hosted thanksgiving this past year and my Brother and I got into a discussion about politics at the end of the night.  He was cordial when talking about Trump, but went off of the rails when Bloomberg came up in conversation.   It literally went from him talking forcefully against Trump to him screaming at the top of his lungs against the possibility of a President Bloomberg, and all I said was that Bloomberg's strategy seemed like a decent idea. 

Add to that the complete disdain that Mayor Pete has for all religious persons who do not prescribe to his orthodoxy (like when he recently, in so many words, told a pro-life Dem there is no room for her anymore in the party), and Bloomberg's desire to completely outlaw guns and his stance that taxing poor people to control their actions is a good thing (he is actually on video saying this), I highly doubt they will be able to unite the Obama coalition and pull it off.   

On top of that, Mayor Pete has no national interest and this whole debacle effectively neutered he ability to take any advantage from it. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 07:56:50 pm
Speaking about CNN, they just reported the official Iowa results. Buttigieg first with 26.9%, followed by Sanders with 25.1%. Warren 18.3%, Biden 15.6%, Klobuchar's 12.6%.
So, Buttigieg's team was more efficient and one day earlier in supplying the results than the official Dem's team. Sounds like he can get things done.

Going ahead, Biden is effectively out of the race, Mike Bloomberg will step in, and Warren will also fall aside. Warren's supporters will give their votes to Bernie, Biden's and Klobuchar's fans to Pete and Bloomberg, and the few Yang's and Steyer's supporters and undecided will switch also to Pete and Bloomberg.

If Bloomberg will ask Pete Buttigieg to join him as VP, that would be a good ticket to beat the Trump and Make America Great Again.

Les, I already reported the results last night at 1030pm in another thread even before Buttigieg.  Maybe I should run as I seem to be able to get things done as well.  OK.  My results percentages were slightly different.  But pretty close and I got the order of winners correct.  OK.  I stole them from the NY Times early report before they ran scared and drop their early results.  Where did the Times get their results and why didn't they report it longer?  What was in their devious minds? 

Quote
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3818 on: February 03, 2020, 10:30:14 pm »
ReplyQuoteModifyModifyRemoveRemove
So the first voting appears to be in from Iowa Democrats nomination.  I don;t know if this is the final. But Biden didn't do too well.  Buttgieg won. The Democrats must be getting nervous.  Time to impeach Trump again.


Buttigieg   27.6%   
Sanders   26.3   
Warren   20.5
Biden   13.8   
Klobuchar   11.5   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 08:06:18 pm
I agree Biden's done.  Two reasons.  His incompetence.  Two, Pelosi shot him while aiming at Trump.  Well maybe three.  Americans won't vote for a guy who will be taking naps in the Oval Office. 

AS far as the scenario Les predicted, I'm not sure.  As Joe said, Bloomberg carries a lot of baggage regarding guns.  He'll win the blue states, but that's a given.  That will work against him in all the rural states some of which are key battleground states. 

Curious, Joe, what sets off your brother about Nanny Bloomberg and Mayor Pete?

In any case, I see why the Dems are worried.  You can't run against someone with no one. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 08:12:09 pm
Les, I already reported the results last night at 1030pm in another thread even before Buttigieg.  Maybe I should run as I seem to be able to get things done as well.  OK.  My results percentages were slightly different.  But pretty close and I got the order of winners correct.  OK.  I stole them from the NY Times early report before they ran scared and drop their early results.  Where did the Times get their results and why didn't they report it longer?  What was in their devious minds?

Yes, the numbers are pretty close. Not something Biden and Warren expected. The Iowa results are a shock to Dems, but they will now rethink their strategy.  It will be interesting to watch the next few races. Even if they don't like the two mayors, they are still their best bet against Trump.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 08:30:07 pm
I don't think Americans are ready for a First Lady who's the president's husband.  Imagine reporters asking questions.  Mr. President, will the First Lady Chasten be travelling with you to NATO?  Well, that won;t work.  How about,  Mr. President, will the First Husband be traveling with you?  That seems strange too.  Or how about this.  Madam President, will you be traveling with the First Gentleman?  That might work.  What do others think?

Regarding Mayor Bloomberg, he ran a liberal city.  I don;t think the rest of the country is ready for his anti-gun, anti plastic, anti-super drink cups nanny state.  He thinks and acts like he's the smartest guy in the world.   But he wants to force his stuff down everyone's throat.  Don't get me wrong.  He is a smart guy with plenty of money to spend.  He's the only person who can say that during his 12 years as mayor, his wealth grew from $5 billion to around $35 billion.  Well, he did give up his mayoral salary. 

All of this is a shock to the Dems. But it's because they don't see any of their candidates as the person to beat Trump.  All of them are the same anti-Trump caricatures of each other.  "We got to get rid of Trump.  Blah. Blah. Blah." Sanders wants to turn America into 1984. Kobluchar wants to be president of Middle America. Warren doesn;lt know what to do with her moccasins.  Buttigieg can;t wait to try out the Lincoln Bedroom. And Biden just wants to take a nap.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 04, 2020, 08:33:35 pm
I agree Biden's done.  Two reasons.  His incompetence.  Two, Pelosi shot him while aiming at Trump.  Well maybe three.  Americans won't vote for a guy who will be taking naps in the Oval Office. 

AS far as the scenario Les predicted, I'm not sure.  As Joe said, Bloomberg carries a lot of baggage regarding guns.  He'll win the blue states, but that's a given.  That will work against him in all the rural states some of which are key battleground states. 

Curious, Joe, what sets off your brother about Nanny Bloomberg and Mayor Pete?

In any case, I see why the Dems are worried.  You can't run against someone with no one.

I honestly have no idea what they have against Mayor Pete, all I know is that the hatred is intense.  I have been trying to figure it out, but just because I cant put my finger on it does not mean it is not there. 

Bloomberg is hated because he is a billionaire and his implementation of stop and frisk, which there is no way he will ever be forgiven for by the hard left.  (This was the first thing my brother went off about.)  Economist Reichman recently wrote that there is no way to become a billionaire in this country without being corrupt, and he then listed the only 5 corrupt ways he felt this was possible.  The whole article was complete bonk, but you have to realize that everyone on the far left prescribes to this idea, and beyond this they despise billionaires for them supposedly buying political power/favors. 

Bloomberg is no better then the Koch brothers in the left's eyes.  He just wont get their support. 

Nether candidate has any chance of beating Trump, especially considering mayor Pete won with less then 10,000 votes and actually lost to a pretty weak Republican on a state wide race.  The situation Les pointed out with Bloomberg as the candidate makes a little more sense, but his complete inability to identify with the middle of the country will kill him.

And, like I said before, the lack of anyone with the ability to unite the Obama coalition with the fact that Trump has united his own coalition means it does not look good for the Dems.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 04, 2020, 08:51:27 pm
Look at it this way, the Iowa caucus total turnout in 2008 was about 240K.  The Dems, for the last month, have been telling us that the turn out this year would be about the same, and they needed it to be.  Without a turnout as large as Obama's, there is just not enough enthusiasm to beat Trump. 

Actual turn out was around 170K, pretty much HRC's turn out numbers. 

There is this myth that Trump won because he got a lot of people who never voted before to vote for him.  Although he certainly did do this, it was not nearly enough to explain his victory.  The real reason he won is because the Obama coalition was not as united and many just stayed home instead of voting. 

Combine that with rising Trump approval numbers, along with a recent poll that showed 90+% of Republicans and around 80% of independents believe Trump will be re-elected.  Only around 60% of Dems believe Trump will loose. 

The enthusiasm is just not there.  Unless someone really develops a serious amount of charisma, like Obama level of charisma, the Dems are in a for a disappointment come November. 

PS. The biggest problem for Democrats wasn’t the vote count (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/04/iowa-caucus-low-turnout-110674)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 04, 2020, 09:00:11 pm
Look at it this way, the Iowa caucus total turnout in 2008 was about 240K.  The Dems, for the last month, have been telling us that the turn out this year would be about the same, and they needed it to be.  Without a turnout as large as Obama's, there is just not enough enthusiasm to beat Trump. 

Actual turn out was around 170K, pretty much HRC's turn out numbers. 

Combine that with rising Trump approval numbers, along with a recent poll that should 90+% of Republicans and around 80% of independents believe Trump will be re-elected.  Only around 60% of Dems believe Trump will loose. 

The enthusiasm is just not there.  Unless someone really develops a serious amount of charisma, like Obama level of charisma, the Dems are in a for a disappointment come November. 
I think the biggest problem that Dems have is that Trump started changing his presentation in the last few months.  He's going from the bad cop to the good cop.  So by the time the election happens, he'll actually seem like a regular president who's done a good job.  A lot of the "bull in the China shop" attitude people believe of him will be gone.  I think that Trump is playing this game perfectly and timing it perfectly too. 

You know when someone is hitting you over the head with a two by four, when he stops, everything feels just great.  You're so happy you want to kiss the guy.  That's what's going to happen with Trump.  Why?  because that; really the guy he is.  All that bravado was often just play-acting.  Sure, he's a no nonsense person. Tough and business-like.   But he's not a cruel person as many of his opponents think he is. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 04, 2020, 09:17:40 pm
On a leftist's facebook feed I happen to be friends with (see below). 

I don't think Mayor Pete deserves to be compared to Muammar Gaddafi, but I constantly see posts like this from Bernie Bros I know, with most being a lot worse and more vile.  It just makes me think he has no chance. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2020, 11:42:52 pm
I don't think Americans are ready for a First Lady who's the president's husband.  Imagine reporters asking questions.  Mr. President, will the First Lady Chasten be travelling with you to NATO?  Well, that won;t work.  How about,  Mr. President, will the First Husband be traveling with you?  That seems strange too.  Or how about this.  Madam President, will you be traveling with the First Gentleman?  That might work.  What do others think?

Regarding Mayor Bloomberg, he ran a liberal city.  I don;t think the rest of the country is ready for his anti-gun, anti plastic, anti-super drink cups nanny state.  He thinks and acts like he's the smartest guy in the world.   But he wants to force his stuff down everyone's throat.  Don't get me wrong.  He is a smart guy with plenty of money to spend.  He's the only person who can say that during his 12 years as mayor, his wealth grew from $5 billion to around $35 billion.  Well, he did give up his mayoral salary. 

All of this is a shock to the Dems. But it's because they don't see any of their candidates as the person to beat Trump.  All of them are the same anti-Trump caricatures of each other.  "We got to get rid of Trump.  Blah. Blah. Blah." Sanders wants to turn America into 1984. Kobluchar wants to be president of Middle America. Warren doesn;lt know what to do with her moccasins.  Buttigieg can;t wait to try out the Lincoln Bedroom. And Biden just wants to take a nap.

I don't think having a husband in the White House would be such a problem as you think. Especially after Trump. Many younger voters couldn't care less if Pete's partner wears pants or a skirt. There could be much worse things than that. Tim Cook is a good shepherd of a rather large organization, so he could advise Pete how to run a big outfit.
Anyway, if Pete doesn't land that job this fall, it would be a good preparation for the next try.

Let's see what happens in the next few months. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 12:01:46 am
I don't think having a husband in the White House would be such a problem as you think. Especially after Trump. Many younger voters couldn't care less if Pete's partner wears pants or a skirt. There could be much worse things than that. Tim Cook is a good shepherd of a rather large organization, so he could advise Pete how to run a big outfit.
Anyway, if Pete doesn't land that job this fall, it would be a good preparation for the next try.

Let's see what happens in the next few months. 
I think everyone is tip toeing around the big elephant in the room.  They're afraid to say anything because they don;t want to be called a bigot.  But most Americans are not ready for a male president who is married to another male who is his "husband".  I've joked about it because frankly I don;t know how to express my opinions without getting nasty static from others.  But maybe it's important to discuss just how I and others might feel about him being president.

I can imagine what many are picturing going on in Lincoln;s bedroom and they're concerned of the image we project as a country.  They wonder about the man's ability to be strong and steadfast during times of crisis.  They may not be saying it, but there is that concern.  I know I feel it.  Will he be able to be singularly strong in times of crisis, or does he depend on another man to make him strong.  Who are we actually voting for?

Arguing that Tim Cook runs Apple is not the same thing.  Cook was not elected.  He doesn;t represent the citizens of the country.  Whether he succeeds or not has little effect on most people unless you happen to own Apple stock.  A wrong move by Cook isn't getting us into WWIII. 

I think not talking about this is foolish.  Because if everyone just goes along to get along, when the election occurs, all those misgivings that people have will come out in a secret ballot.  And then everyone is going to be surprised with how easy Trump won.  Better to talk about it now so people can make honest decisions during the nomination process.  Of course, that's probably going to happen anyway.  Iowa is a caucus state where people might feel embarrassed because discussions about the candidates are open.  So he seems to be running ahead there.  But future voting in other states will be secret.  So we might know exactly how the electorate feels by what his own Democrats say about him when they vote.

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 05, 2020, 04:49:21 am
I think everyone is tip toeing around the big elephant in the room.  They're afraid to say anything because they don;t want to be called a bigot.  But most Americans are not ready for a male president who is married to another male who is his "husband".  I've joked about it because frankly I don;t know how to express my opinions without getting nasty static from others.  But maybe it's important to discuss just how I and others might feel about him being president.

I can imagine what many are picturing going on in Lincoln;s bedroom and they're concerned of the image we project as a country.  They wonder about the man's ability to be strong and steadfast during times of crisis.  They may not be saying it, but there is that concern.  I know I feel it.  Will he be able to be singularly strong in times of crisis, or does he depend on another man to make him strong.  Who are we actually voting for?

Arguing that Tim Cook runs Apple is not the same thing.  Cook was not elected.  He doesn;t represent the citizens of the country.  Whether he succeeds or not has little effect on most people unless you happen to own Apple stock.  A wrong move by Cook isn't getting us into WWIII. 

I think not talking about this is foolish.  Because if everyone just goes along to get along, when the election occurs, all those misgivings that people have will come out in a secret ballot.  And then everyone is going to be surprised with how easy Trump won.  Better to talk about it now so people can make honest decisions during the nomination process.  Of course, that's probably going to happen anyway.  Iowa is a caucus state where people might feel embarrassed because discussions about the candidates are open.  So he seems to be running ahead there.  But future voting in other states will be secret.  So we might know exactly how the electorate feels by what his own Democrats say about him when they vote.

Personally, that wouldn't disturb me a bit. There will be some homophobic people, some gays, and most won't care at all. Don't project your personal attitude onto the other voters. I don't think many people will be worried or imagining what's going on in the Lincoln's bedroom. As seen from the Iowa results, very few "established and standard observers" anticipated the final outcome. And when it comes to the international image of USA, it can't get any worse than it is now under Trump.

As to the official state procedures, Pierre Trudeau in his last term or two was a swinging bachelor, and that was fine both with his constituents and other statesmen. He coined the phrase "There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation". Fidel Castro married a second time, but kept his marriage and wife secret, going solo to various official functions and visits. I'm sure if Pete makes his first official international visit to Canada, he will be greeted here with all the pomp and respect as Canadians extend to other statesmen.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 05, 2020, 05:09:15 am
... A wrong move by Cook isn't getting us into WWIII...

If you correct your typo and put “c” instead of “o,” it just might  ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 05, 2020, 05:19:08 am
If the US bombing of Chinese embassy in Belgrade in 1999 didn't trigger WWIII, I wouldn't worry about spelling of Tim Cook's name.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 05, 2020, 07:42:57 am
Biden's always been "done." What y'all saw in Iowa is just the tip of the iceberg. And the Democrats are sailing toward it full speed ahead.

Haven't had as good a laugh in a long time as I've had at the Iowa "caucuses."
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 05, 2020, 09:14:11 am
Biden's always been "done." What y'all saw in Iowa is just the tip of the iceberg. And the Democrats are sailing toward it full speed ahead.

Haven't had as good a laugh in a long time as I've had at the Iowa "caucuses."

This is funny too: 'Hey Iowa, We Fixed Your Voting Problems'
https://youtu.be/U5NygevLsiU
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 09:51:24 am
This is funny too: 'Hey Iowa, We Fixed Your Voting Problems'
https://youtu.be/U5NygevLsiU
That's funny Bart.  My camera use to to work like paper too.  Now I need a 350 page manual.  I use to send my film out to the local photo processing store and get back two 4x6" prints of all my shots in less than an hour.  No levels, contrast, etc.  Today I've had to become an computer engineer and software specialist. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 11:29:16 am
Personally, that wouldn't disturb me a bit. There will be some homophobic people, some gays, and most won't care at all. Don't project your personal attitude onto the other voters. I don't think many people will be worried or imagining what's going on in the Lincoln's bedroom. As seen from the Iowa results, very few "established and standard observers" anticipated the final outcome. And when it comes to the international image of USA, it can't get any worse than it is now under Trump.

As to the official state procedures, Pierre Trudeau in his last term or two was a swinging bachelor, and that was fine both with his constituents and other statesmen. He coined the phrase "There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation". Fidel Castro married a second time, but kept his marriage and wife secret, going solo to various official functions and visits. I'm sure if Pete makes his first official international visit to Canada, he will be greeted here with all the pomp and respect as Canadians extend to other statesmen.
He has to get elected before traveling to Canada. 

I'm reminded of our election in 1960 when Kennedy ran as the first Catholic to seek the presidency.  There was much concern in his party that he owed his allegiance to the Pope and Rome, that he wouldn't put America's and American's interests first.  It would work against him.  So he took the bull by the horns and arranged a specific speech to address the situation directly.  He told America that he was independent of the Catholic Church.  That his faith would not interfere with his work for America and Americans.  He would be independent.  His speech was accepted, voters we satisfied, and he went on to become America's first Catholic president.  That opened the door for people seeking office of other faiths as well. Today, no one ever mentions it.

Buttigieg has to do something similar or he won't win the nomination.  He has to answer any questions that Americans might have about his sexual preferences that they won't interfere with his work if he becomes president.  This is particularly a problem for him because he's only 37 years old.  He doesn;t have a long history and career in politics where he's shown his stuff.   People don't really know who he is.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 05, 2020, 11:43:55 am
This is funny too: 'Hey Iowa, We Fixed Your Voting Problems'
https://youtu.be/U5NygevLsiU

That's a hoot, Bart, and there's an editorial in the Wall Street Journal this morning entitled "New Hampshire Wins the Iowa Caucuses." Among other things it points out that New Hampshire uses paper ballots.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 05, 2020, 11:55:14 am
He has to get elected before traveling to Canada. 

I'm reminded of our election in 1960 when Kennedy ran as the first Catholic to seek the presidency.  There was much concern in his party that he owed his allegiance to the Pope and Rome, that he wouldn't put America's and American's interests first.  It would work against him.  So he took the bull by the horns and arranged a specific speech to address the situation directly.  He told America that he was independent of the Catholic Church.  That his faith would not interfere with his work for America and Americans.  He would be independent.  His speech was accepted, voters we satisfied, and he went on to become America's first Catholic president.  That opened the door for people seeking office of other faiths as well. Today, no one ever mentions it.

Buttigieg has to do something similar or he won't win the nomination.  He has to answer any questions that Americans might have about his sexual preferences that they won't interfere with his work if he becomes president.  This is particularly a problem for him because he's only 37 years old.  He doesn;t have a long history and career in politics where he's shown his stuff.   People don't really know who he is.

I think Mayor Pete ultimately looses, whether it be in the primary or the general, if he gets that far, but walks away with a well developed skill set of how to handle a national campaign plus name recognition.  Then, if Bernie either dies or retires between now and 2024 so the riff in the party starts to heal, he comes back in 2024 and owns it. 

Now I thought of this about Harris, but she decided to nose dive off a cliff into wokeness.  For Pete's sake, let's hope Pete does not do the same thing. 

On top of that, I really think the main internal issue with the Dems that will hold them back this time is Bernie.  He has radicalized about a third of the party to be all or nothing types.  They either vote for Bernie or sit out the election.  In 2008 and 2012, before becoming radicalize, these were part of the Obama coalition, and until Bernie goes away, they will not be returning to it. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 05, 2020, 12:00:01 pm
He has to get elected before traveling to Canada. 

I'm reminded of our election in 1960 when Kennedy ran as the first Catholic to seek the presidency.  There was much concern in his party that he owed his allegiance to the Pope and Rome, that he wouldn't put America's and American's interests first.  It would work against him.  So he took the bull by the horns and arranged a specific speech to address the situation directly.  He told America that he was independent of the Catholic Church.  That his faith would not interfere with his work for America and Americans.  He would be independent.  His speech was accepted, voters we satisfied, and he went on to become America's first Catholic president.  That opened the door for people seeking office of other faiths as well. Today, no one ever mentions it.

Buttigieg has to do something similar or he won't win the nomination.  He has to answer any questions that Americans might have about his sexual preferences that they won't interfere with his work if he becomes president.  This is particularly a problem for him because he's only 37 years old.  He doesn;t have a long history and career in politics where he's shown his stuff.   People don't really know who he is.

I think, you are overthinking it. As the Iowa voters demonstrated, not everybody is bothered by his sexual preference. His military record shows that he is more a man than the current commander in chief. He could outrun him anytime. And he has more political and common sense than Trump. BTW, he is now 38 years old.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 05, 2020, 01:33:15 pm
He has to answer any questions that Americans might have about his sexual preferences that they won't interfere with his work if he becomes president.

What questions might those be, Alan?  (Or <insert usual suspects here>)?

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 05, 2020, 01:52:02 pm
CBS to Bloomberg: Do you think Americans want to see two billionaires tweeting at each other?

Bloomberg: “Who’s the other billionaire??”

 ;D ;D ;D

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=130866608112218&_rdr (https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=130866608112218&_rdr)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 01:54:30 pm
What questions might those be, Alan?  (Or <insert usual suspects here>)?


He says he has a husband.  What does that mean? Is his husband his alter ego? Who am I voting for? Him or his husband? Is he really his own man?  Is he a leader?  Americans expect their presidents to lead, to be in charge.    Kennedy faced similar issues with the Catholic church.   To become president,  he had to put those issues to rest.   

This is all new to most Americans.   I commend him for acting natural and open about himself in public.   But people are still concerned about a dynamic they may not understand.  He'll have to go the extra mile to put it to rest. Thinking everyone is ok with it will cost him the nomination. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 05, 2020, 04:00:44 pm
He says he has a husband.  What does that mean? Is his husband his alter ego? Who am I voting for? Him or his husband? Is he really his own man?  Is he a leader?  Americans expect their presidents to lead, to be in charge.    Kennedy faced similar issues with the Catholic church.   To become president,  he had to put those issues to rest.   
Don't be silly, please! 
So do I understand that you could never vote for a women... ? because she cannot lead, unlike her husband ...

This is all new to most Americans.   I commend him for acting natural and open about himself in public.   But people are still concerned about a dynamic they may not understand.  He'll have to go the extra mile to put it to rest. Thinking everyone is ok with it will cost him the nomination.
NEW? as old as mankind, but not accepted or even  acknowledged in too many countries.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 05, 2020, 04:26:17 pm
... as old as mankind, but not accepted or even  acknowledged in too many countries.

Hmmm... I wonder why?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 05, 2020, 04:31:13 pm
He says he has a husband.  What does that mean? Is his husband his alter ego? Who am I voting for? Him or his husband? Is he really his own man?  Is he a leader?  Americans expect their presidents to lead, to be in charge.    Kennedy faced similar issues with the Catholic church.   To become president,  he had to put those issues to rest.   

This is all new to most Americans.   I commend him for acting natural and open about himself in public.   But people are still concerned about a dynamic they may not understand.  He'll have to go the extra mile to put it to rest. Thinking everyone is ok with it will cost him the nomination.

You don't vote for Pete's husband or their dog.
Is your wife your alter ego? If a wife bosses her husband around, is he his own man? Is he a leader in the house or only when dancing tango on weekends?
As to the religion, that should be kept out of the politics, unless you like the Iranian model of government.
 
Dynamics are overrated. Most Americans understand dynamics of their income taxes and dynamics of dropping a bomb on a hostile country. Maybe also dynamics of a bad meal.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 05, 2020, 04:37:37 pm
You don't vote for Pete's husband or their dog.
Is your wife your alter ego? If a wife bosses her husband around, is he his own man? Is he a leader in the house or only when dancing tango on weekends?...

Hehehe... the Obamas come to mind  ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 05, 2020, 04:57:49 pm
Hehehe... the Obamas come to mind  ;D

Or Clintons. Sometimes, a different arrangement might work better.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 05, 2020, 06:29:28 pm
Hmmm... I wonder why?

Dunno, narrow-mindedness?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 06:53:47 pm
You don't vote for Pete's husband or their dog.
Is your wife your alter ego? If a wife bosses her husband around, is he his own man? Is he a leader in the house or only when dancing tango on weekends?
As to the religion, that should be kept out of the politics, unless you like the Iranian model of government.
 
Dynamics are overrated. Most Americans understand dynamics of their income taxes and dynamics of dropping a bomb on a hostile country. Maybe also dynamics of a bad meal.
Well I'd be more comfortable if he was the husband.   Of course,  being the wife he'd be breaking the glass ceiling.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 05, 2020, 08:30:51 pm
Well I'd be more comfortable if he was the husband.   Of course,  being the wife he'd be breaking the glass ceiling.

Do you know many gay couples?  I don't know any that subscribe to such a rigid social dynamic.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 09:26:04 pm
Do you know many gay couples?  I don't know any that subscribe to such a rigid social dynamic.
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 05, 2020, 09:49:40 pm
What do you mean?

None of the gay couples I know really present themselves in distinct, traditional "husband/wife" roles or mannerisms.  I'm just curious as to whether your experience is different. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 05, 2020, 09:58:42 pm
Hmmm... I wonder why?

Why are you so afraid of gay people?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 05, 2020, 10:05:14 pm
That type of comment was perhaps remotely funny the first time. Now it is just yawn-inducing.


I don't know what you mean by funny. It's not funny, it's right on point.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 10:08:43 pm
None of the gay couples I know really present themselves in distinct, traditional "husband/wife" roles or mannerisms.  I'm just curious as to whether your experience is different. 
I don;t know any couples who are gay other than I know some people who are gay who have partners.  But nothing more than that.  So OK.  If there are no distinct husband/wife roles, how do they decide who's who.  And why even apply those nouns rather than just "partner"?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 05, 2020, 10:19:03 pm
If there are no distinct husband/wife roles, how do they decide who's who.

What?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 05, 2020, 10:20:50 pm
I hate to get involved in such a pointless conversation, but Alan, you are thinking about this way too much.  I don't think anyone really cares.  Or should I say the amount of people in this country that would vote against mayor Pete just because he is gay is probably just as large as the amount of people who voted against Obama because he was black.  Frankly, there are probably some, but not enough to make a difference. 

Second, every gay couple I know refers to each other as husband and every lesbian couple I know refers to each other as wife.  There are no specific roles they happen to play, or at least I have never met a couple that has. 

The only time where gender roles may be important would be if the couple was raising a child.  Men and women raise and interact with children differently, and there is a lot of evidence children need both types of parenting to develop properly.  In this instance, there may be a need to decide who plays what role, but beyond this, it does not matter.  I don't believe Mayor Pete has any children, so this does not apply to him anyway. 

Last, for the love of God, can we stop using the word partner for anything else then business partner!  We are in the 21st century, just say husband or wife (or boyfriend or girlfriend).  Saying partner just confuses the hell out of people, especially for people like me who happen to work a lot with business owners. 

One of my clients is a firm owned by two women and whenever I refer to them as partners to someone new, I get blank stares and need to both explain that they are not lesbians (and are actually married to their own husbands) and that, just like men, women can form partnerships too.  It is quite annoying. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 05, 2020, 10:27:03 pm
I don;t know any couples who are gay other than I know some people who are gay who have partners.  But nothing more than that.  So OK.  If there are no distinct husband/wife roles, how do they decide who's who.  And why even apply those nouns rather than just "partner"?

"Partner" does just fine in the case of unmarrieds.  Or, both guys are "husband" / both women are "wife."   I'm also not following how this would be any different depending on terminology.  In my household, the words "husband" and "wife" have no bearing on assignment of obligations. 

Edit:  What Joe said, except I don't get bent about "partner." :D  In my company I introduce my employee/colleague as my "partner" as a matter of respect (and to lend him some authority), and I guess some people could mistake that for a personal relationship, but whatever.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 10:44:47 pm
Well, if there seems to be some confusion by people here who have experience with gay couples, imagine people who have none?  That';s the point I was making.  When you're not familiar with what's going on, you imagine all sorts of things.  That's natural.  So anything a gay candidate does to to reduce the confusions, the oddness, the unknowing, is going to help them in an election. 

Just like Kennedy had to explain that just because he was Catholic, he was not getting instructions from the Pope.  MAny people didn't know the dynamic of that relationship and today many people don;t know the dynamic of gay relationships.  Understand them takes the fear out of it.  Telling people they shouldn't worry about it is not the path to victory. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 05, 2020, 10:55:30 pm
I hate to get involved in such a pointless conversation, but Alan, you are thinking about this way too much.  I don't think anyone really cares.  Or should I say the amount of people in this country that would vote against mayor Pete just because he is gay is probably just as large as the amount of people who voted against Obama because he was black.  Frankly, there are probably some, but not enough to make a difference. 

Second, every gay couple I know refers to each other as husband and every lesbian couple I know refers to each other as wife.  There are no specific roles they happen to play, or at least I have never met a couple that has. 

The only time where gender roles may be important would be if the couple was raising a child.  Men and women raise and interact with children differently, and there is a lot of evidence children need both types of parenting to develop properly.  In this instance, there may be a need to decide who plays what role, but beyond this, it does not matter.  I don't believe Mayor Pete has any children, so this does not apply to him anyway. 

Last, for the love of God, can we stop using the word partner for anything else then business partner!  We are in the 21st century, just say husband or wife (or boyfriend or girlfriend).  Saying partner just confuses the hell out of people, especially for people like me who happen to work a lot with business owners. 

One of my clients is a firm owned by two women and whenever I refer to them as partners to someone new, I get blank stares and need to both explain that they are not lesbians (and are actually married to their own husbands) and that, just like men, women can form partnerships too.  It is quite annoying. 

I didn't know that.  I didn't realize that they are both husbands.  Did I get that right?  I use to think that if a guy said someone was his husband, the other guy would say that the first guy us his wife.  And I'm from NYC.  If I don;t understand this, imagine the rest of the country? 

What if they are legally married?  Does the law require one or the other to take a gender role?  So that one is a husband and the other a wife?  What if they want to adopt?   (One is listed as the father and the other is listed as the mother?) Same question. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 05, 2020, 11:14:57 pm
Alan, I second Joe's motion that you are overthinking this.

The politicians are elected not based on their sexual preferences, and whether they prefer to be on top or bottom (and even in the heterosexual relationships some women like to play the dominant role), but to do things like rising and lowering taxes, cutting ribbons and pretending putting shovels into the ground, and dropping bombs on the bad guys.

Whether they are called husbands, wives, or partners is completely irrelevant. Actually, I'd find it much more offending if a woman called me honey or sweetie.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 05, 2020, 11:27:01 pm
Just wait till we get a poly candidate  ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 06, 2020, 02:48:20 am
Well, I heard Democrats are desperate to find a candidate (that is not Angry Birdie) having at least a minimal chance of beating Trump... Romney, perhaps? 🤣
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 06, 2020, 02:52:01 am
I don't know what you mean by funny. It's not funny, it's right on point.

Ok, I agree. It is not funny. Nor on point. Just plan stupid. I was trying to be charitable.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 06, 2020, 09:35:16 am
Alan, I second Joe's motion that you are overthinking this.

The politicians are elected not based on their sexual preferences, and whether they prefer to be on top or bottom (and even in the heterosexual relationships some women like to play the dominant role), but to do things like rising and lowering taxes, cutting ribbons and pretending putting shovels into the ground, and dropping bombs on the bad guys.

Whether they are called husbands, wives, or partners is completely irrelevant. Actually, I'd find it much more offending if a woman called me honey or sweetie.
80% of the people vote based on what party they belong too.  The press makes a bigger deal out of policy and that stuff.  The rest of the voters tend to vote on personality and other intangibles beside policy.  Charisma has a bigger effect than what the guy thinks about taxes or the JCPOA.  I hope you don;t get offended if your wife calls you honey or sweetie.  At least in private.  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 06, 2020, 09:49:00 am
80% of the people vote based on what party they belong too.  The press makes a bigger deal out of policy and that stuff.  The rest of the voters tend to vote on personality and other intangibles beside policy.  Charisma has a bigger effect than what the guy thinks about taxes or the JCPOA.  I hope you don;t get offended if your wife calls you honey or sweetie.  At least in private.  :)

That's what the conventional wisdom says. They also predicted that Biden will do well. But the Iowa results speak otherwise.
As to honey or sweetie, my wife knew better not to use those words. However, several of my neighbours and my brother in law were responding positively when called that way.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 06, 2020, 09:52:11 am
Well, I'm sure your wife thinks you're a sweetie anyway.  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 06, 2020, 09:54:37 am
Well, I'm sure your wife thinks you're a sweetie anyway.  :)
That's was indisputable. But now all my exes live in Texas.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 06, 2020, 09:58:58 am
Like I said elsewhere, I think Pelosi hurt Biden more than she hurt Trump.  Regardless of whether Trump should have done what he did or not, it raised the question in some people's minds just whether Biden is corrupt or not by not staying out of Ukraine policy.  Well, that thread is closed.  It will be interesting to see what happens in So. Carolina with Biden where there's a big black population, whether he'll be able to pull them out to vote for him.  If not, he's finished.  I think many American think he's over-the-hill.  A nice guy, but incompetent.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 06, 2020, 09:59:50 am
That's was indisputable. But now all my exes live in Texas.
Ah.  I didn't know that about you.  Is that why you live in Canada?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 06, 2020, 10:53:14 am
Ah.  I didn't know that about you.  Is that why you live in Canada?

Actually, I said it only because I liked how it sounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmOOAd25WRw

As to the Texas girls, waitresses and sale ladies, they all call you there honey. In Toronto, they address you as sir or hey you.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 06, 2020, 11:44:42 am
Well, we might not know who the Democratic presidential candidate will be, but looks like the VP job is already secured  ;D

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/hillary-clinton-2020-election-democrats-vice-president-trump-a9321476.html

"'Never say never': Hillary Clinton responds to questions about becoming vice-president"

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 06, 2020, 11:53:27 am
If Hillary's vice president and you're president be careful that you don't commit suicide.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 06, 2020, 12:07:54 pm
How are Democrats going to run the country when they can;t even run one's state's election?   It looks like they'll never be able to confirm the final results.

Iowa Caucus Results Riddled With Errors and Inconsistencies
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/upshot/iowa-caucuses-errors-results.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 06, 2020, 12:08:31 pm
I'm surprised no one's blaming the Russians yet.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 06, 2020, 12:18:56 pm
How are Democrats going to run the country when they can;t even run one's state's election?   It looks like they'll never be able to confirm the final results.

Iowa Caucus Results Riddled With Errors and Inconsistencies
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/upshot/iowa-caucuses-errors-results.html

Weren't we told there would be no malarkey? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 06, 2020, 12:28:54 pm
Actually, I said it only because I liked how it sounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmOOAd25WRw

As to the Texas girls, waitresses and sale ladies, they all call you there honey

This is kinda true :).  Or “sweetie.”
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 06, 2020, 12:33:14 pm
I'm surprised no one's blaming the Russians yet.
They wouldn't make such a mess; In the US it happened before in Florida remember?
(making holes in carton calling it progress)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 06, 2020, 12:45:16 pm
I'm surprised no one's blaming the Russians yet.

Russians are already in Miami.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 06, 2020, 12:59:19 pm
I'm surprised no one's blaming the Russians yet.

Welp, here you go!

Democrat Congresswoman Blames Iowa Caucus Disaster On Russia (https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/06/democrat-congresswoman-blames-iowa-caucus-disaster-on-russia/)

Although I would not normally post something from The Federalist, there is a video clip verifying the reporting. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 06, 2020, 02:12:33 pm
Welp, here you go!

Democrat Congresswoman Blames Iowa Caucus Disaster On Russia (https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/06/democrat-congresswoman-blames-iowa-caucus-disaster-on-russia/)

Although I would not normally post something from The Federalist, there is a video clip verifying the reporting. 
Putin must be chuckling.

It shows incompetence. Today the chairman of the DNC is calling for a recount on Iowa.   That'll certainly make Sanders supporters cry foul.   They're trying to help another candidate,  Biden this time. If Sanders wins the most votes during the nomination process,  and the Democrats nominate someone else,  the Sanders supporters won't show up for the election. Teump could take California. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 06, 2020, 02:39:46 pm
Putin must be chuckling.

It shows incompetence. Today the chairman of the DNC is calling for a recount on Iowa.   That'll certainly make Sanders supporters cry foul.   They're trying to help another candidate,  Biden this time. If Sanders wins the most votes during the nomination process,  and the Democrats nominate someone else,  the Sanders supporters won't show up for the election. Teump could take California.

To be honest, I sincerely hope Sanders does not win. 

Although I think the chance is low that he could bet Trump, there is still a chance and I would not want a devote communist as president.  The economy would completely tank. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 06, 2020, 08:10:08 pm
To be honest, I sincerely hope Sanders does not win. 

Although I think the chance is low that he could bet Trump, there is still a chance and I would not want a devote communist as president.  The economy would completely tank. 

The way things went in Iowa, I'd say there's a 2 to 1 chance the Democrat nomination will be won by Trump.  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2020, 03:36:01 am
You can’t make these things up 🤣

https://dailycaller.com/2020/02/05/liz-warren-iowa-caucus-pocahontas/

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 07, 2020, 04:08:01 am
The way things went in Iowa, I'd say there's a 2 to 1 chance the Democrat nomination will be won by Trump.  :)

You're not the only one, it seems: a venerable news outlet has  an interesting view of developments (https://politics.theonion.com/dnc-mulls-asking-donald-trump-to-run-as-democrat-in-eff-1841432132).

Jeremy
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2020, 04:49:27 am
This is what you can expect if Democrats win:

“Criminals would be protected from deportation under bill AOC and other House Democrats back”

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-criminals-would-be-protected-from-deportation-under-bill-aoc-and-other-house-democrats-back

Quote
Current law also states that those who have committed drug crimes abroad, or any “crimes involving moral turpitude,” are ineligible to immigrate here. The New Way Forward Act abolishes that statute.

A Mexican drug cartel leader could be released from prison, then freely come to America immediately. And if he wants, he could come here illegally, and it wouldn’t be a crime – because, and you were waiting for this, the bill also decriminalizes illegal entry into America, even by those previously deported.

According to a document promoting the bill, criminalizing illegal entry into America is “white supremacist.”

Quote
But believe it or not, we saved the nuttiest part for last. What could be more destructive than changing U.S. law, specifically to allow rapists, child molesters, and drug dealers to stay in America? How about this: Using taxpayer money to bring deported criminals back into America.

From 2002 to 2018, 480,000 people were deported for illegal entry or reentry into America. And under this bill, you’d have to buy them all a plane ticket to come back. The tickets alone would cost about a billion dollars, and that’s before Democrats make you start paying for these criminals’ free health care, too.

This isn’t funny anymore, so no three laughing smiles from me this time.

 :o
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 07, 2020, 06:55:31 am
AOC, defacto leader of the Dems, and were the Dems want to take us. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 07, 2020, 07:35:28 am
This thread's title should be renamed to "Echo chamber."  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 07, 2020, 08:40:38 am
This thread's title should be renamed to "Echo chamber."  :)
Not really. The other one on Trump was making fun of him. Now we have a chance to make fun of Democrats.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 07, 2020, 08:47:37 am
Not really. The other one on Trump was making fun of him. Now we have a chance to make fun of Democrats.
Impeachment fun? you mean?

BTW
Yesterday I saw he trusts the newspapers USA Today and the Washington Post.
So start reading!
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 07, 2020, 09:42:50 am
The "impeachment" Kabuki was a great success for Trump and the Republicans. There are something like 40 House Democrats in districts carried by Trump whose reelection now is in doubt. Looks as if the "impeachment" was a real step toward the Republicans taking back the House. The Senate is likely to be more securely in Republican hands, and considering the sorry lineup of Democrat presidential wannabes Trump will win reelection in a walk. It's a happy outcome for the Republicans.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2020, 10:20:24 am
The fun continues, this time via play on words:

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 07, 2020, 11:52:31 am
Dems lose another one against Trump.  This just isn't their week.

"Appeals court tosses Democrats' emoluments lawsuit against Trump"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/politics/emoluments-lawsuit-trump/index.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 07, 2020, 12:03:06 pm
Dems lose another one against Trump.  This just isn't their week.

"Appeals court tosses Democrats' emoluments lawsuit against Trump"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/politics/emoluments-lawsuit-trump/index.html

That's how it started 100 years ago. One concession at a time, one appeasement at a time, and the fearless leader owns the party

Quote
Rise To Power
Discharged from the hospital amid the social chaos that followed Germany’s defeat, Hitler took up political work in Munich in May–June 1919. As an army political agent, he joined the small German Workers’ Party in Munich (September 1919). In 1920 he was put in charge of the party’s propaganda and left the army to devote himself to improving his position within the party, which in that year was renamed the National-sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (Nazi). Conditions were ripe for the development of such a party. Resentment at the loss of the war and the severity of the peace terms added to the economic woes and brought widespread discontent.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Hitler/Rise-to-power
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 07, 2020, 12:12:27 pm
Dems lose another one against Trump.  This just isn't their week.

"Appeals court tosses Democrats' emoluments lawsuit against Trump"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/politics/emoluments-lawsuit-trump/index.html
This one was always a stretch: two other emoluments cases still pending. Secret Service is paying $650/night for rooms at Trump properties.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-has-paid-rates-as-high-as-650-a-night-for-rooms-at-trumps-properties/2020/02/06/7f27a7c6-3ec5-11ea-8872-5df698785a4e_story.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2020, 12:17:12 pm
That's how it started 100 years ago...

Godwin’s Law.

Not cool.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Kevin Gallagher on February 07, 2020, 12:23:20 pm
It seemed a good time for this.


(https://pbase.com/keving/image/170394673.jpg)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 07, 2020, 12:34:00 pm
That's how it started 100 years ago. One concession at a time, one appeasement at a time, and the fearless leader owns the party

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Hitler/Rise-to-power
What does Hitler have to do with finding Democrats acting unconstitutionally?   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2020, 12:34:42 pm
Ambulance

 ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 07, 2020, 01:25:00 pm
What does Hitler have to do with finding Democrats acting unconstitutionally?

Slobodan and Alan,

if you don't like the Hitler and Nazi comparison, I can point out also to Klement Gottwald and communists taking over Czechoslovakia in 1948.
The analogy between Nazis, Communists and Republicans (at this time) is that the cowards and spineless followers in the respective parties were fearful of their leader, didn't want to rock the boat, and allowed ostracizing (and worse) of their honest and brave colleagues. The 2020 State Of The Union reminds very strongly of Nazis and Communists clapping and cheering their leaders, and Trumps attacks of Romney, Comey and others are as hateful as of the aforementioned despots. 
 
I wasn't around the watch the Nazis, but I've seen Communists in Czechoslovakia and there are quite a few parallels between them and Trump.

https://www.radio.cz/en/section/czechs/klement-gottwald
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 07, 2020, 01:47:43 pm
Slobodan and Alan,

if you don't like the Hitler and Nazi comparison, I can point out also to Klement Gottwald and communists taking over Czechoslovakia in 1948.
The analogy between Nazis, Communists and Republicans (at this time) is that the cowards and spineless followers in the respective parties were fearful of their leader, didn't want to rock the boat, and allowed ostracizing (and worse) of their honest and brave colleagues. The 2020 State Of The Union reminds very strongly of Nazis and Communists clapping and cheering their leaders, and Trumps attacks of Romney, Comey and others are as hateful as of the aforementioned despots.

Hi Les,
I can agree that all politics has this at it's core...On EVERY side. That's what politics are all about.

But  Romney saying his religious beliefs were at the core of his decision to vote to expel Trump is a bit too far beyond belief.  And he stating that he is a deeply religious man. When he was conducting business and made billions for him and his partners and crushed corporations and destroyed peoples lives in the doing, just where were his religious convictions then???

The reason for his vote sickens me. If he just said the truth that he despises Trump, I would applaud him for his honesty.
Politicians truly disgust me...no matter the brand. I wish the people of this country would forgo party, and be only Americans.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 07, 2020, 02:19:12 pm
Hi Les,
I can agree that all politics has this at it's core...On EVERY side. That's what politics are all about.

But  Romney saying his religious beliefs were at the core of his decision to vote to expel Trump is a bit too far beyond belief.  And he stating that he is a deeply religious man. When he was conducting business and made billions for him and his partners and crushed corporations and destroyed peoples lives in the doing, just where were his religious convictions then???

The reason for his vote sickens me. If he just said the truth that he despises Trump, I would applaud him for his honesty.
Politicians truly disgust me...no matter the brand. I wish the people of this country would forgo party, and be only Americans.
 
Peter

Peter,

I don't know enough about Romney and his past. In this case, I heard him talking only about the impeachment point, which was the Trump's handling of the Ukraine deal.
Whether it was his religion or just common decency, at this time he did the right thing. Maybe he is now a better man than before. Which can't be said about Trump.

I am not qualified to comment on Romney's past and destroyed corporations and people's lives, but Trump has hurt also quite a few businesses, contractors, students and other people's lives in his previous business endeavours.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2020, 02:43:06 pm
Hi Les,
I can agree that all politics has this at it's core...On EVERY side. That's what politics are all about.

But  Romney saying his religious beliefs were at the core of his decision to vote to expel Trump is a bit too far beyond belief.  And he stating that he is a deeply religious man. When he was conducting business and made billions for him and his partners and crushed corporations and destroyed peoples lives in the doing, just where were his religious convictions then???

The reason for his vote sickens me. If he just said the truth that he despises Trump, I would applaud him for his honesty.
Politicians truly disgust me...no matter the brand. I wish the people of this country would forgo party, and be only Americans.

Peter


Some hope, Peter.

And as I pointed out before, the Trump ethic is infectious: Boris was a quick learner, and just the other day he decided to throw out of a press conference the reporters from papers and tv stations that do not always lie down before him. This is unheard of behaviour in Britain, but it has now happened. Where to next for freedom of expression?

China hit that poor doc who tried to warn colleagues about the danger of the new virus by arresting him, and forcing him to confess that he was a troublemaker. He died, but apparently, that wasn't enough for the state: they had him put back onto a machine so that they could time his second death to suit their publicity and propaganda machine. You think this is an impossibility in the States? I bet it isn't even news, just another part of the realpolitik; I also bet that almost every war zone has had its parallels; let's face it, when you can screw the Palestinians by favouring their enemy who happens to be your best friend, and make your son-in-law (of the same faith) the very guy you decide is the best face you can offer to represent yourself as honest broker in making peace deals, you have two choices for excuses: you don't give a shit how it looks because you are powerful, or you are honest, but simply too dumb to get it. My penny would be on the first option.

Maybe Bloomberg will join the race later on; that might be interesting.

I think Trump has been the worst influence to affect modern politics: far from draining any swamps, he has opened the gates of the sewers and is swimming strong, happy as a pig.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2020, 02:47:10 pm
Looks like the TDS is spreading faster that the Corona virus, infecting even some otherwise sane minds :(
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2020, 03:11:54 pm
Looks like the TDS is spreading faster that the Corona virus, infecting even some otherwise sane minds :(


It's a contemporary plague.

A part of Germany just made a pact with the neo-nazis and got a member of Angela's club elected. It lasted less than a day, and resulted in the resignation of the cat that won the seat: Angela said no friggin' way do we sup with the devil.

That dangerous lunatic fringe on the far right never went away, never goes away; it raised its Gorgon head recently in England, Italy and is trying really hard again in Spain.

We live in times of great danger. In the end, communism or its opposite on the fringes of politics across the world come to the same thing: repression for Mr Everyone and the rule by party, not by any representative of the common man. You lived and worked under that; can't you recognize the same thing growing under a different name? You create personalities above the law, keep them there by vilifying everyone else who has the nerve to speak up and say hey, wait a minute...

You may be better off where you are today.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Chris Kern on February 07, 2020, 03:42:33 pm
Maybe Bloomberg will join the race later on; that might be interesting.

Bloomberg is already running.  It's an unconventional campaign, based primarily on pouring enormous amounts of money into mass media―conventional and Internet (and one thing Bloomberg certainly knows is media)―rather than on retail politics, although he is putting in a fair amount of time meeting voters face-to-face and he has assembled a large and, reportedly, unusually well-paid campaign staff.  It should be clear after March 3, when 14 states* conduct intraparty "primary elections," whether he has a reasonable shot at becoming the Democratic Party candidate.

Bloomberg is hardly charismatic, but he is smart, a policy centrist, his campaign is data-driven and therefore flexible, and he has the financial and staff resources to produce the high voter turnout the Democrats need to overcome the Republican advantage in the electoral college.  Plus, while he may lack charisma, I suspect he could run rings around Trump verbally in a debate setting―and that he will know how to utter the magic incantations that will drive el señor Loco even more loco.  (When asked by a reporter the other day whether it was a good idea to have two billionaires running against each other for president, Bloomberg dryly replied, "Who's the other billionaire?")

_____
*Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, plus a special primary for U.S. expats.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 07, 2020, 03:43:19 pm
Peter,
Whether it was his religion or just common decency, at this time he did the right thing. Maybe he is now a better man than before. Which can't be said about Trump.

That's wonderful for him, but restitution for the people that he crushed would go along way to make Romney somewhat credible. Most people always forget the restitution step.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 07, 2020, 04:07:22 pm
Looks like the TDS is spreading faster that the Corona virus, infecting even some otherwise sane minds :(

Sadly, watching the deterioration of GOP is more painful than Trump's deterioration.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 07, 2020, 04:21:19 pm
Slobodan and Alan,

if you don't like the Hitler and Nazi comparison, I can point out also to Klement Gottwald and communists taking over Czechoslovakia in 1948.
The analogy between Nazis, Communists and Republicans (at this time) is that the cowards and spineless followers in the respective parties were fearful of their leader, didn't want to rock the boat, and allowed ostracizing (and worse) of their honest and brave colleagues. The 2020 State Of The Union reminds very strongly of Nazis and Communists clapping and cheering their leaders, and Trumps attacks of Romney, Comey and others are as hateful as of the aforementioned despots. 
 
I wasn't around the watch the Nazis, but I've seen Communists in Czechoslovakia and there are quite a few parallels between them and Trump.

https://www.radio.cz/en/section/czechs/klement-gottwald
Les, The president of the US serves in three capacities:  Chief executive of the US, commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and leader of his party.  To equate Trump to Hitler because he runs his party is just as silly as assuming that a PM is Hitler becomes he runs his party.  All presidents get fealty from their party.  Actually, in Trump's case, it took him a lot longer to get it as mainline republicans were against him in the beginning.  Is Nancy Pelosi a Hitler too because her party all voted for impeachment, likewise in the Senate?  Was Obama a Hitler because he got all the Democrats to vote for Obamacare?  This is just more of the anti-Trump press trying to make Trump into some evil person, which is silly. I'm surprised you're falling for it. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 07, 2020, 04:28:20 pm

It's a contemporary plague.

A part of Germany just made a pact with the neo-nazis and got a member of Angela's club elected. It lasted less than a day, and resulted in the resignation of the cat that won the seat: Angela said no friggin' way do we sup with the devil.

That dangerous lunatic fringe on the far right never went away, never goes away; it raised its Gorgon head recently in England, Italy and is trying really hard again in Spain.

We live in times of great danger. In the end, communism or its opposite on the fringes of politics across the world come to the same thing: repression for Mr Everyone and the rule by party, not by any representative of the common man. You lived and worked under that; can't you recognize the same thing growing under a different name? You create personalities above the law, keep them there by vilifying everyone else who has the nerve to speak up and say hey, wait a minute...


Not to worry Rob - the purges are already beginning (https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1225883722102296576) and the political apparatus, which has notably stonewalled investigations into the executive, is already mobilized (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481876-treasury-responds-to-gop-requests-for-hunter-biden-burisma-info) on behalf of the king.  Soon there will be no dissent, so we can all pretend that everything is perfect again and go back to our bread and circuses.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 07, 2020, 04:49:10 pm
Les, The president of the US serves in three capacities:  Chief executive of the US, commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and leader of his party.  To equate Trump to Hitler because he runs his party is just as silly as assuming that a PM is Hitler becomes he runs his party.  All presidents get fealty from their party.  Actually, in Trump's case, it took him a lot longer to get it as mainline republicans were against him in the beginning.  Is Nancy Pelosi a Hitler too because her party all voted for impeachment, likewise in the Senate?  Was Obama a Hitler because he got all the Democrats to vote for Obamacare?  This is just more of the anti-Trump press trying to make Trump into some evil person, which is silly. I'm surprised you're falling for it.

Alan,
the reference to Hitler was unfortunate. I didn't compare personality of Trump to his, but the actions of Nazis (and communists) to the current conduct of Republicans. They were gutless cowards, betraying their country and fellow citizens. Some did it because they are simply dumb and fearful, others are callous and corrupt. Trump won't last forever, but the damage he has done to the party will be longer lasting and more detrimental. How did you feel watching those gutless wimps cheering and clapping?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2020, 05:33:14 pm
Not to worry Rob - the purges are already beginning (https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1225883722102296576) and the political apparatus, which has notably stonewalled investigations into the executive, is already mobilized (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481876-treasury-responds-to-gop-requests-for-hunter-biden-burisma-info) on behalf of the king.  Soon there will be no dissent, so we can all pretend that everything is perfect again and go back to our bread and circuses.

Ironic, isn't it, that that was kinda what the war of Independence was supposed to be about. Circles...

I really feel sad about it: I used to think that Americans had a wonderful country where but to dream was to fulfil; now, I think that's all being thrown away by a new totalitarianism that's going to create uncrossable divides, just as I think has happened over Brexit where those who you believe screwed you can never, ever be your friends again for the deep pain they have wished upon you. You just see them through different eyes. It's done.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 07, 2020, 06:41:21 pm
Ironic, isn't it, that that was kinda what the war of Independence was supposed to be about. Circles...

I really feel sad about it: I used to think that Americans had a wonderful country where but to dream was to fulfil; now, I think that's all being thrown away by a new totalitarianism that's going to create uncrossable divides, just as I think has happened over Brexit where those who you believe screwed you can never, ever be your friends again for the deep pain they have wished upon you. You just see them through different eyes. It's done.

If it makes you feel any better, Slobodan and I get along famously via PM (honestly) and I definitely plan to pal around with him next time I find myself in E. Europe.
 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 07, 2020, 08:25:10 pm
Alan,
the reference to Hitler was unfortunate. I didn't compare personality of Trump to his, but the actions of Nazis (and communists) to the current conduct of Republicans. They were gutless cowards, betraying their country and fellow citizens. Some did it because they are simply dumb and fearful, others are callous and corrupt. Trump won't last forever, but the damage he has done to the party will be longer lasting and more detrimental. How did you feel watching those gutless wimps cheering and clapping?

You're doing exactly what Hillary did in 2016.  She called those who disagreed with her viewpoints "deplorables", and lost the election.  94% of Republican voters today support Trump through all the charges, maybe because of them.  The Republican Senators and Congressmen reflect their voters.  Insulting them by calling their leaders "dumb and fearful, callous and corrupt" , won't get any of them to vote for a Democrat. 

You also apparently aren't familiar with the annual state-of-the-union affair.  The members of the President's party, whether Democrat or Republican, hoot and holler, while the members of the opposing party sit there in silence with grimaces on their faces.  It's all very silly and both parties indulge in the exuberance equally.  Maybe you ought to spend time looking at videos of previous state-of-the-union speeches to verify my point.  It's just plain normal for party member to cheer their presidents' accomplishments because they want the glory to wear on them as well.  Equating their action to Nazis is over the top.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 07, 2020, 08:41:43 pm
Not to worry Rob - the purges are already beginning (https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1225883722102296576) and the political apparatus, which has notably stonewalled investigations into the executive, is already mobilized (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481876-treasury-responds-to-gop-requests-for-hunter-biden-burisma-info) on behalf of the king.  Soon there will be no dissent, so we can all pretend that everything is perfect again and go back to our bread and circuses.
No one party can silence dissent.  That's just anti-Trump arguments to smear Trump.  Dissent comes from the opposing party.  Which Democrats dissented with Nancy Pelosi?  WHich democrats opposed Obamacare?  How many Democrats supported the Supreme COurt justices when they were nominated by republicans? How many Democrats cheered President Trump's accomplishments that helped the country?    We can make up similar lists for both sides.  90% of the media is Anti-Trump and present the news that way. 

To argue that Trump has silenced debate and is controlling the argument is just being a sore-loser in a bad week for Democrats.  Next week might be better.  In any case, it's up to the democrats to make the case against republicans, not republicans.  That's not how the world works and you know that.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 07, 2020, 11:44:29 pm
You're doing exactly what Hillary did in 2016.  She called those who disagreed with her viewpoints "deplorables", and lost the election.  94% of Republican voters today support Trump through all the charges, maybe because of them.  The Republican Senators and Congressmen reflect their voters.  Insulting them by calling their leaders "dumb and fearful, callous and corrupt" , won't get any of them to vote for a Democrat. 

You also apparently aren't familiar with the annual state-of-the-union affair.  The members of the President's party, whether Democrat or Republican, hoot and holler, while the members of the opposing party sit there in silence with grimaces on their faces.  It's all very silly and both parties indulge in the exuberance equally.  Maybe you ought to spend time looking at videos of previous state-of-the-union speeches to verify my point.  It's just plain normal for party member to cheer their presidents' accomplishments because they want the glory to wear on them as well.  Equating their action to Nazis is over the top.

I respect your arguments and agree that there is a sizeable group of politicians and constituents liking and admiring Trump. Some of us see it differently from the outside, but we are just observers, not participants. When it comes to apostles following blindly their leader, personally, I'd find it dangerous and disgusting regardless of a party, religion or a country - maybe because I saw results and consequences of such situations.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 07, 2020, 11:59:58 pm
I respect your arguments and agree that there is a sizeable group of politicians and constituents liking and admiring Trump. Some of us see it differently from the outside, but we are just observers, not participants. When it comes to apostles following blindly their leader, personally, I'd find it dangerous and disgusting regardless of a party, religion or a country - maybe because I saw results and consequences of such situations.
I understand your concern.  But Trump is just a loudmouth, a bull in the China shop.  He's never been a politician and says it like it is which riles people. They're not use to it.  I don;t like it either.  But, his policies are fairly mundane and have been pretty successful so far.  Pro business, low taxes, and liberal socially.  He's a bit of an isolationist "America First".  He's opposed to America getting into wars where our interests are not paramount.  That makes him a peacenik compared to past presidents who never saw a foreign adventure they didn't approve of.  Hillary is a warmonger compared to him.  He uses American strength to get our way.  Obviously, if you're on the receiving end, you're pissed.  But for americans, it makes us safer and wealthier.  Sorry. But that;s the way it is.  What's happened is the political insiders just can't handle that an outsider became president.  Didn't he know he wasn't suppose to do that? It's driven them crazy so they've made up all these crazy things about him. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 08, 2020, 12:16:16 am
Alan,
my opinion is just a layman's take on these situations. But I watched a number of American political commentators and even comedians who see these things similarly and they are not afraid to voice their concerns, so I know I'm not alone worrying about this trend.

If I may use another analogy, it would be the one with the frog that ends up killed in a pot of boiling water.  Right now, the water is still tepid, the frogs are happy, but as James commented:
Quote
the purges are already beginning and the political apparatus, which has notably stonewalled investigations into the executive, is already mobilized on behalf of the king.  Soon there will be no dissent, so we can all pretend that everything is perfect again and go back to our bread and circuses.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 12:44:24 am
As I said earlier, dissent comes from the other side, the Democrats.  Every president or leader anywhere tries to control disagreement within their own administration.  It's bad enough arguing with the opposition. Who needs internal conflict?   How long would you have a job if you went to the newspapers and blabbed about the policies of the company you worked for?  Let's be real.  Also, the president is the elected official, not the people who report to him.  They weren't elected.  He was.  It's the president's policies that are paramount.  If a subordinate doesn;t like a president's policy, he should keep his mouth shut and do his job or resign, as some have.  That's the way to handle it.  No one made these people the boss.  As they say, they work at the pleasure of the president because he was the elected person. 

Additionally, Democrats control the House of Representatives, so we have a divided government.  That's great for freedom of the people.  It's more dangerous when the executive and the legislative is controlled by one party.  Every president uses presidential power to do things.  So if they're beyond constitutional., they'll be put down by the courts.  So all this stuff about Trump taking over the country is just more politics to get people nervous so they don;t vote for him.  It's nonsense. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 08, 2020, 01:33:21 am
Executing effectively the vision and strategy of a wise leader is a good and noble thing.
Following blindly an emperor and trying to appease him rather the whole country is something entirely different.

I just watched Bill Maher and one of the things he said was:
"The Republicans don't hate just the Democrats, they hate democracy. They hate the player and the game."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kllPUCjKHI4
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 08, 2020, 04:58:52 am
If it makes you feel any better, Slobodan and I get along famously via PM (honestly) and I definitely plan to pal around with him next time I find myself in E. Europe.

I believe you because I am in a similar position, though most unlikely to go anywhere again other than do the final road trip to Scotland via France and bits of England - if I can sell my apartment in time to beat the reaper, grim or laughing.

Anyway, I am convinced Slobodan is playing the wonderful mind game of devil's advocate; much better than draughts or chess, though the latter is just opinion because I never played it. I see it as mental golf, which is equally pointless unless you enjoy carrying the sports (?) equivalent of a large Gitzo.

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 08, 2020, 05:31:49 am
... You lived and worked under that; can't you recognize the same thing growing under a different name?...

Precisely because I lived under that, and none of you did, I can assure you that nothing of the sort is happening. Other than you guys building an army of straw men, the size of Chinese Terracotta Army. And equally effective.

The TDS is progressing to hallucinations phase.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 08, 2020, 05:44:51 am
...How did you feel watching those gutless wimps cheering and clapping?

I am sorry, Les, but that is a ridiculous argument. One side of the parliament always cheers and claps, from the French Revolution times. You think Obama’s side didn’t cheer and clap for him? Or any other president before him? Have you ever watched British parliament debates and how raucous they can get when one side cheers and the other boos?

Besides, what’s not to cheer? Economy is up, stocks ar up, employment is up, wages are up, minority employment is up, etc., etc., etc. The only thing down are Democrats, green with envy that that jerk is actually delivering what they have only been promising all this time, while they’ve been busy staging one coup attempt after another.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 08, 2020, 05:48:51 am
If it makes you feel any better, Slobodan and I get along famously via PM (honestly) and I definitely plan to pal around with him next time I find myself in E. Europe.

Absolutely!
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 08, 2020, 05:52:54 am
... they are not afraid to voice their concerns...

In a totalitarian, Nazi regime?  ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 08, 2020, 06:12:54 am
I am sorry, Les, but that is a ridiculous argument. One side of the parliament always cheers and claps, from the French Revolution times. You think Obama’s side didn’t cheer and clap for him? Or any other president before him? Have you ever watched British parliament debates and how raucous they can get when one side cheers and the other boos?

Besides, what’s not to cheer? Economy is up, stocks ar up, employment is up, wages are up, minority employment is up, etc., etc., etc. The only thing down are Democrats, green with envy that that jerk is actually delivering what they have only been promising all this time, while they’ve been busy staging one coup attempt after another.

To tell the truth, normally I don't watch this kind of performances, maybe that's why it disturbed me so much. As mentioned previously in another post, the speeches by Obama, Clinton and Reagan were always uplifting and more entertaining, and the clapping intermezzos were used to a lesser extent. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 08, 2020, 06:15:02 am
Rob,

This is the the only time I might side with you against Trump ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 06:16:32 am
I respect your arguments and agree that there is a sizeable group of politicians and constituents liking and admiring Trump. Some of us see it differently from the outside, but we are just observers, not participants. When it comes to apostles following blindly their leader, personally, I'd find it dangerous and disgusting regardless of a party, religion or a country - maybe because I saw results and consequences of such situations.

+1
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 06:19:20 am
I understand your concern.  But Trump is just a loudmouth, a bull in the China shop.

So, the result is that you'll wind up with a wrecked chinashop, with some hard to replace pieces gone for ever.
That will prove to be a very high price to pay.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 07:02:43 am
Precisely because I lived under that, and none of you did, I can assure you that nothing of the sort is happening.

Really?

Esper Guarantee Against Retaliation Proves Faithless For Vindman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkSx_J1e90

Those who trust this administration will get screwed, apparently.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 08, 2020, 07:15:00 am
Really?

Esper Guarantee Against Retaliation Proves Faithless For Vindman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkSx_J1e90

Those who trust this administration will get screwed, apparently.
Maddow and Hannity are two sides of a hyper biased political coin...that's the way much of America see this.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 08, 2020, 07:18:35 am
So, the result is that you'll wind up with a wrecked chinashop, with some hard to replace pieces gone for ever.
That will prove to be a very high price to pay.

Not necessarily!
 
Bull in a China Shop (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzw2iBmRsjs)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 08, 2020, 07:21:33 am
Really?

Esper Guarantee Against Retaliation Proves Faithless For Vindman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkSx_J1e90

Those who trust this administration will get screwed, apparently.

Vindman is not out of a job, just out of the White House.  If you had someone working in your home who tried to get you convicted and failed, I’m sure you’d have him out of your home too.  Not to mention he was already planning on leaving the end of this month.

He’ll return to the Pentagon and continue working for defense. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 08, 2020, 07:22:18 am
Not necessarily!
 
Bull in a China Shop (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzw2iBmRsjs)

So how do we elect a Bull???

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 08, 2020, 07:23:12 am
So how do we elect a Bull???

Peter

Good one.   ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 08:27:26 am
Vindman is not out of a job, just out of the White House.  If you had someone working in your home who tried to get you convicted and failed, [...]

Say what?  Purple heart decorated, United States Army lieutenant colonel Alexander Vindman was the Director for European Affairs for the United States National Security Council (NSC) was called by Congress to testify and tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. If Trump got pissed off by that, it must have been because he didn't want the truth be told. Is Trump pleading guilty by self implication?

How about Vindman's, and his family's personal safety? We've already seen what Esper's words are worth, less than the paper it was written on ...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 08, 2020, 08:35:04 am
Say what?  Purple heart decorated, United States Army lieutenant colonel Alexander Vindman was the Director for European Affairs for the United States National Security Council (NSC) was called by Congress to testify and tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If Trump got pissed off by that, it must have been because he didn't want the truth be told. Is Trump pleading guilty by self implication?

How about Vindman's, and his family's personal safety? We've already seen what Esper's words are worth, less than the paper it was written on ...

If by truth, you mean truthfully stating his opinion, then I guess yes.  But if you are implying he testified to directly to what Trump was thinking and doing, then no! As wa pointed out during the inquiry, he had no direct knowledge. 

His entire testimony was based on speculation, which was obviously biased against the president.  Remember, his CO said that Vindman was an activist in uniform, and furthermore, I don’t hold someone above being biased just because they have a Purple Heart or a law degree. 

Last, don’t give me this BS about personal safety.  Trump can’t control crazies who happen to be supporters any more then Bernie can control his. 

It’s an unfortunate part of modern politics, and I’m not sure there is a way to fix it. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 08, 2020, 08:43:01 am
So, the result is that you'll wind up with a wrecked chinashop, with some hard to replace pieces gone for ever.
That will prove to be a very high price to pay.

No, Bart. Trump came into a china shop that had been wrecked by a couple of his predecessors. He's been cleaning it up by greatly improving things like employment and income. Yes, he's a loudmouth and has a, well let's say "difficult" personality. But he's doing the job that his predecessors claimed falsely they were doing.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 09:02:59 am
No, Bart. Trump came into a china shop that had been wrecked by a couple of his predecessors. He's been cleaning it up by greatly improving things like employment and income.

Russ, having to work multiple jobs to make ends meet,  is not improving employment. It only messes up people's quality of life, and the statistics as well.

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 09:11:21 am
Executing effectively the vision and strategy of a wise leader is a good and noble thing.
Following blindly an emperor and trying to appease him rather the whole country is something entirely different.

I just watched Bill Maher and one of the things he said was:
"The Republicans don't hate just the Democrats, they hate democracy. They hate the player and the game."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kllPUCjKHI4
Actually, Bill Maher is the one who hates Democracy.  He talks the talk but doesn;t walk the walk. If you don't believe what he believes, there's something wrong with you. People who appreciate democracy don;pt spend three years trying to find a reason to get rid of a duly elected president.  They get ready for the next election and try to convince the public to vote for their ways of governing.   Also, democrats are the ones who want big government to run everything.  How's that democracy when you lose individual freedoms? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 09:22:23 am
Not necessarily!
 
Bull in a China Shop (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzw2iBmRsjs)
Joe, that's amazing.  I'll have to drop that saying. Maybe there a point to all that.  That Trump despite his loud mouth and unpolitical ways, is getting the job done.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 09:23:52 am
To tell the truth, normally I don't watch this kind of performances, maybe that's why it disturbed me so much. As mentioned previously in another post, the speeches by Obama, Clinton and Reagan were always uplifting and more entertaining, and the clapping intermezzos were used to a lesser extent. 
They're always more entertaining and uplifting when he's your guy. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 08, 2020, 09:30:37 am
Russ, having to work multiple jobs to make ends meet,  is not improving employment. It only messes up people's quality of life, and the statistics as well.

You may want to actually look at the stats instead of Dem talking points.  Average work hours per week is below 40, I think 36 actually.  That’s not working two jobs. 

Add onto that, wages are actually increasing amongst lower income jobs, something that did happen under Obama. 

Are Most People Actually Working Two Or Three Jobs? Not Really. (http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/aparnamathur/2019/08/04/are-most-people-actually-working-two-or-three-jobs-not-really/amp/)

Fact checkers even constantly label these claims as pants on fire false. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 09:37:47 am
Russ, having to work multiple jobs to make ends meet,  is not improving employment. It only messes up people's quality of life, and the statistics as well.


That's true to a certain extent.  But at least the second jobs are there for people to work.  Better than being unemployed.  In any case, most EUropeans would say America is doing better than Europe.  Our markets are up, employment is up, unemployment is down, ISIS is gone, NK is quiet, we're making trade deals, etc.  It's interesting we're still talking about Trump here in a thread about the Democrats. What have they done in three years except throw sticks and stone at Trump? All it's been is Nyah Nyah Nyah from them.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 09:59:40 am
Say what?  Purple heart decorated, United States Army lieutenant colonel Alexander Vindman was the Director for European Affairs for the United States National Security Council (NSC) was called by Congress to testify and tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. If Trump got pissed off by that, it must have been because he didn't want the truth be told. Is Trump pleading guilty by self implication?

How about Vindman's, and his family's personal safety? We've already seen what Esper's words are worth, less than the paper it was written on ...


Here's what Donald Trump Jr says about it:

""Allow me a moment to thank — and this may be a bit of a surprise — Adam Schiff. Were it not for his crack investigation skills, @realDonaldTrump might have had a tougher time unearthing who all needed to be fired," Trump Jr. said. "Thanks, Adam!""

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/crack-investigation-don-trump-jr-mocks-adam-schiff-for-unearthing-who-all-needed-to-be-fired
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 10:05:44 am
You may want to actually look at the stats instead of Dem talking points.  Average work hours per week is below 40, I think 36 actually.  That’s not working two jobs.

How do you know? Do only 36 hour jobs exist in the USA?

Quote
Add onto that, wages are actually increasing amongst lower income jobs, something that did happen under Obama.

"Did happen under Obama", is that a typo, or did you mean that?

Assuming the information I have is correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States
Quote
In April 2014, the U.S. Senate debated the minimum wage on the federal level by way of the Minimum Wage Fairness Act. The bill would have amended the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA) to increase the federal minimum wage for employees to $10.10 per hour over the course of a two-year period. The bill was strongly supported by President Barack Obama and many of the Democratic Senators, but strongly opposed by Republicans in the Senate and House.

Later in 2014, voters in the Republican-controlled states of Alaska, Arkansas, Nebraska and South Dakota considered ballot initiatives to raise the minimum wage above the national rate of $7.25 per hour, which were successful in all four states. The results provided evidence that raising minimum wage has support across party lines.

So claiming that wages were not increasing under Obama, seems to be wrong, or a lie.

Also, there is a difference between what people earn and wich part of that is disposable income (or perhaps even more importantly, discretionary income).
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/033015/what-difference-between-disposable-income-and-discretionary-income.asp

In case you're really interested:
https://www.marketingcharts.com/industries/financial-services-2340
Quote
“While the percentage of households with discretionary income has risen over the past several years, purchasing power remains concentrated in the wallets of the affluent,” said Lynn Franco, director of The Conference Board Consumer Research Center.

Nearly 78% of all discretionary income is held by households earning more than $100,000. Average discretionary income for this segment, $66,451, is 2.7 times the national average.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:10:15 am
How do you know? Do only 36 hour jobs exist in the USA?

That again is not correct, assuming the information I have is correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States
So claiming that wages were not increasing under Obama, seems to be wrong, or a lie.

Also, there is a difference between what people earn and wich part of that is disposable income (or perhaps even more importantly, discretionary income).
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/033015/what-difference-between-disposable-income-and-discretionary-income.asp

In case you're really interested:
https://www.marketingcharts.com/industries/financial-services-2340
The important thing is that there are more jobs for more people than ever before thanks to Trump.  That's good for America and his re-election.  What have democrats done in the last three years to help Americans? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:13:41 am
Here's Democrats response to what Trump has done to help Americans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LueAAY1no9Y
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 08, 2020, 10:14:53 am
They're always more entertaining and uplifting when he's your guy.

Alan,
I don't have any dogs in this fight, I can't vote for any of these guys, and I can see faults in both the republican and democratic party. So when it comes to commenting on international politics, I consider myself pretty neutral. For entertainment, I like to watch Bill Maher, Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel or John Oliver. For some reason, they seem to find a lot of material on Trump. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 10:15:26 am
It's interesting we're still talking about Trump here in a thread about the Democrats.

They are opponents who react to each other.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 08, 2020, 10:16:08 am
How do you know? Do only 36 hour jobs exist in the USA?

Assuming the information I have is correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States
So claiming that wages were not increasing under Obama, seems to be wrong, or a lie


This is a wikipedia post...sometimes misinformation is at play here.

You should check the US Department of Labor


Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 08, 2020, 10:17:35 am
Alan,
I don't have any dogs in this fight, I can't vote for any of these guys, and I can see faults in both the republican and democratic party. So when it comes to commenting on international politics, I consider myself pretty neutral. For entertainment, I like to watch Bill Maher, Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel or John Oliver. For some reason, they seem to find a lot of material on Trump.

I watch these guys too...But they are from a common mind which is not neutral.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 10:21:10 am
The important thing is that there are more jobs for more people than ever before thanks to Trump.  That's good for America and his re-election.  What have democrats done in the last three years to help Americans?

Thanks to, or despite? Look at the National Debt. Printing money is easy, but not always a wise thing to do. Who is going to pay the bill? Trump or the people (and amongst them, who)?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:22:20 am
Alan,
I don't have any dogs in this fight, I can't vote for any of these guys, and I can see faults in both the republican and democratic party. So when it comes to commenting on international politics, I consider myself pretty neutral. For entertainment, I like to watch Bill Maher, Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel or John Oliver. For some reason, they seem to find a lot of material on Trump. 
Trump is making all of them rich along with all the cable news hosts as well.  They all ought to chip in and give Trump a thank you party for making their careers so successful.  :)  I stopped watching the late night shows.  SNL is like them too. They all hate Trump and their jokes are stale already.  The old late night comics were somewhat balanced and you could laugh at all the politicians on all sides.  Today, their shows are like reading the anti-Trump Washington Post or NY Times.  If Trump loses the election, they'll all go broke.  He's what's keeping them in green.  No one would watch without Trump. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:24:49 am
Thanks to, or despite? Look at the National Debt. Printing money is easy, but not always a wise thing to do. Who is going to pay the bill? Trump or the people (and amongst them, who)?
Well, when NATO countries finally pay their 2%, we'll be able to cut some of our defense spending and reduce our deficits.    Please urge your government to start spending more for our sake.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 08, 2020, 10:32:55 am
Russ, having to work multiple jobs to make ends meet,  is not improving employment. It only messes up people's quality of life, and the statistics as well.

I can guess where you get this idea, Bart. I see this crap in left-wing publications and TV all the time. I suspect that to learn the truth you have to be here in the USA, walk around, talk to people, and see what the attitude really is. As usual, in spite of misleading arguments on either side, it's a mixed bag. But increased employment isn't because people are having to take on multiple jobs. I know you love charts, so here's one:

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 08, 2020, 10:33:04 am
How do you know? Do only 36 hour jobs exist in the USA?

"Did happen under Obama", is that a typo, or did you mean that?

Assuming the information I have is correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States
So claiming that wages were not increasing under Obama, seems to be wrong, or a lie.

Also, there is a difference between what people earn and wich part of that is disposable income (or perhaps even more importantly, discretionary income).
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/033015/what-difference-between-disposable-income-and-discretionary-income.asp

In case you're really interested:
https://www.marketingcharts.com/industries/financial-services-2340

I believe I wrote average, and I am pretty sure you understand what an average is and that it does not imply that only 36 hour per week jobs exist.  Come on Bart. 

Insofar as wages increasing under Obama, during his entire two-term tenure, wages went up 4.2%, most of which occurred in his 2nd term.  It's about half way down this article, Are Wages Rising or Flat? (https://www.factcheck.org/2019/06/are-wages-rising-or-flat/).  Rate of inflation was 11.4% over his two terms. 

Trump tenure has seen low income worker's wages raise 5.8% in the past year alone.  State of the Union: Fact-checking Trump's claims on jobs, wealth and wages (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/02/04/trump-state-union-2020-claims-fact-check-sotu/4659841002/). 

Of course you will see that he fudged other parts of his speech in that article, but overall wages at the lower end have increased faster in one year, then in all 8 years under Obama. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 08, 2020, 10:33:16 am
Well, when NATO countries finally pay their 2%, we'll be able to cut some of our defense spending and reduce our deficits.    Please urge your government to start spending more for our sake.  Thank you.

France is spending 2.3% of their GDP on their military budget. Hopefully, on the latest military hardware, not on new uniforms and gourmet meals.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on February 08, 2020, 10:33:57 am
It's interesting we're still talking about Trump here in a thread about the Democrats. What have they done in three years except throw sticks and stone at Trump? All it's been is Nyah Nyah Nyah from them.

Pretty much identical to Republican behaviour throughout the eight preceding Obama years.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 08, 2020, 10:36:08 am
I watch these guys too...But they are from a common mind which is not neutral.

Peter

Peter, the only neutral minds are those under the ground.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on February 08, 2020, 10:51:15 am
I know you love charts, so here's one:

Make my day !!
Even you should know better. 2008 was the start of the financial crisis - started under a Republican administration and inherited by Obama.
Move forward to mid 2011 and start from there ...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:54:25 am
France is spending 2.3% of their GDP on their military budget. Hopefully, on the latest military hardware, not on new uniforms and gourmet meals.
Yeah, but Macron wants to start his own NATO.  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:57:28 am
Pretty much identical to Republican behaviour throughout the eight preceding Obama years.

Agreed.  Government at its finest.  I love this kind of conflict.  They do less damage because they pass less legislation.  Exactly what the founders intended.  Grid lock.  It allows regular people to go about their business with less government interference in their lives.  Like stupid laws prohibiting people from shooting photos in public. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 11:04:21 am
Well, when NATO countries finally pay their 2%, we'll be able to cut some of our defense spending and reduce our deficits.

Keep fooling yourself. The weapons industry has you in a firm grip.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 11:05:55 am
Agreed.  Government at its finest.  I love this kind of conflict.  They do less damage because they pass less legislation.  Exactly what the founders intended.  Grid lock.  It allows regular people to go about their business with less government interference in their lives.  Like stupid laws prohibiting people from shooting photos in public.

Or shooting eachother ...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 11:07:09 am
Make my day !!
Even you should know better. 2008 was the start of the financial crisis - started under a Republican administration and inherited by Obama.
Move forward to mid 2011 and start from there ...
Obama did alright.  Of course going up was the only place to go considering where we were in 2009.  But he could have done a lot better if he spent less time adding regulations in all industries and restricting investments and expansion in the oil industry. 

Unless there's a recession at the last minute, the democrats have to argue against Trump's success in these areas.  Calling him corrupt and evil only goes so far.  Must people who aren't Democrats look at their bank account, investment and pay checks.  If these are doing well, they're not going to vote for a guy like Sanders who wants to upset the apple cart to try something new.  People are conservative about these things.  All this also bodes well for Bloomberg.  People will figure a guy worth 55 billion must know what he's doing even more than a guy only worth 3 billion.   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 08, 2020, 11:07:15 am
Make my day !!
Even you should know better. 2008 was the start of the financial crisis - started under a Republican administration and inherited by Obama.
Move forward to mid 2011 and start from there ...

So what you're saying, Manoli, like many others, is that after the recession was over the economy started going back up. Golly. What a revelation. If it hadn't started back up we'd have continued to call it a recession. The question always was, how much was Obama's administration holding back the rise. All you have to do is look at the chart and you can see the answer.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 11:09:28 am
Keep fooling yourself. The weapons industry has you in a firm grip.

Americans like their tanks.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 11:09:48 am
Or shooting eachother ...
Americans like their guns too.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on February 08, 2020, 11:15:52 am
Keep fooling yourself. The weapons industry has you in a firm grip.

Bart,

I have neither the strength nor inclination but I’m sure Alan and his pals probably haven’t even heard of the EPAA - could you point them to

https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-systems-2/missile-defense-systems/policy-coming-soon/european-phased-adaptive-approach-epaa/

and explain that the now infamous 2.5% is but a smokescreen.

Thanks,
M

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on February 08, 2020, 11:47:37 am
So what you're saying, Manoli, like many others, is that after the recession was over the economy started going back up. Golly. What a revelation. If it hadn't started back up we'd have continued to call it a recession. The question always was, how much was Obama's administration holding back the rise. All you have to do is look at the chart and you can see the answer.

Russ,

At times you crack me up !
But you'll need to do better than that.
Glibly calling it a 'recession' is, to phrase it politely, somewhat understated.

Quote
October 2008, Congress passed the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, putting $700 billion into the hands of the Treasury Department to bail out the nation’s banks at a moment of vanishing credit and peak financial panic. Over the next three months, Treasury poured nearly $239 billion into 296 of the nation’s 8,000 banks. The money went to big banks. It went to small banks. It went to banks that desperately wanted the money. It went to banks that didn’t want the money at all but had been ordered by Treasury to take it anyway. It went to banks that were quite happy to accept the windfall, and used the money simply to buy other banks. Some banks received as much as $45 billion, others as little as $1.5 million. Sixty-seven percent went to eight institutions; 33 percent went to the rest. And that was just the money that went to banks. Tens of billions more went to other companies, all before Barack Obama took office. It was the largest single financial intervention by Treasury into the banking system in U.S. history.

Time to brush up on our economic fundamentals ?

All best,
M
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 12:32:38 pm
Bart,

I have neither the strength nor inclination but I’m sure Alan and his pals probably haven’t even heard of the EPAA - could you point them to

https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-systems-2/missile-defense-systems/policy-coming-soon/european-phased-adaptive-approach-epaa/

and explain that the now infamous 2.5% is but a smokescreen.

Thanks,
M


You're putting up the smoke screen.   It doesn't hide the fact that many NATO nations are not meeting their commitment to spend 2% of their GDP on defense.  You're leaving it up tp the American taxpayer to defend you spending our money better spent on on our medical care. Then you criticize us for not spending more public funds for medicine while you can afford to do so because you're cheap when it comes to defending yourself.  That's hypocracy.   No wonder you support Democrats.   They're stupid enough to go along with the game.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on February 08, 2020, 01:25:28 pm
You're leaving it up tp the American taxpayer to defend you spending our money ...

Defending yourselves just as much if not more so than Europe.
Russian Hypersonic nukes travel at Mach8 , that’s 45 minutes Moscow >  NY or Washington.
Submarine launch obviously less, and of course we all remember how much the Americans loved the idea of having nukes sitting on their doorstep.

You wanna talk nuclear defense ? perhaps start another thread.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 08, 2020, 01:56:40 pm
So what you're saying, Manoli, like many others, is that after the recession was over the economy started going back up. Golly. What a revelation. If it hadn't started back up we'd have continued to call it a recession. The question always was, how much was Obama's administration holding back the rise. All you have to do is look at the chart and you can see the answer.
Obama's rise was steeper... and he had to deal with enormous economical problems getting the economy working again.
It was the nonregulation that caused the bankruptcy and it will come again if those regulations are undone by Trump.
Trump had it far easier than Obama when becoming President. If the economy goes well it is time to make the statedeficit less instead of the large grow of it, that is happening.
Of coarse it is much easier to spend money than to save it. It will not be Trumps problem, but for the next generations to come.
( same with the increase of pullution and the old economy he is supporting)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 08, 2020, 03:13:23 pm
Iowa takes vote counting very seriously, but they are still not done. Now they extended the re-count deadline till Monday. If they succeed, the official Iowa results could be out one full day before the NH results.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/politics/iowa-recanvass-recount-deadline/index.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 08, 2020, 03:50:52 pm
Russ,

At times you crack me up !
But you'll need to do better than that.
Glibly calling it a 'recession' is, to phrase it politely, somewhat understated.

Time to brush up on our economic fundamentals ?

All best,
M

You lost me with that one. Yes, the Congress made a humongous financial mistake. And Obama kept on making mistake after mistake. Again, if you look at the slopes in that graph, you'll see the difference. That recession was a nasty one, brought on mostly by a Democrat congress and Bush giving away taxpayers' money with subprime loans.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 05:34:06 pm
Defending yourselves just as much if not more so than Europe.
Russian Hypersonic nukes travel at Mach8 , that’s 45 minutes Moscow >  NY or Washington.
Submarine launch obviously less, and of course we all remember how much the Americans loved the idea of having nukes sitting on their doorstep.

You wanna talk nuclear defense ? perhaps start another thread.

The Cold War ended 30 years ago.  Russia isn't a threat to America, maybe Eastern Europe.  Also to Hillary.  Mainly, they;re your problem.  Why are you buying their natural gas instead of ours and building a pipeline that you,ll have to rely on Russia?  Seems rather foolish.  What if they shut the spigot when you have an argument with them?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 06:18:54 pm
Looks like Nancy's impeachment of Trump impeached Joe Biden and puts him in third place in New Hampshire poll with half the percentage of even the second place runner..

Overall, 28% of likely Democratic primary voters in New Hampshire back Sanders, about even with the 25% who backed him in mid-January. Buttigieg, the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, has seen his numbers rise six points to 21%, while former Vice President Joe Biden slides five points to 11% and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren dips to single digits with 9%.

While I'm still coasting at 0%, that's not much worse then the rest of the field:

Behind these top four, the poll finds no real movement in support for Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (6%), Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar (5%), businessman Tom Steyer (3%) or entrepreneur Andrew Yang (3%). Interviewing for the poll finished on Friday night, as the Democratic debate got underway, so the survey does not reflect any reaction to that debate.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/08/politics/new-hampshire-poll/index.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 08, 2020, 06:24:10 pm
In the meantime, purges continue... in Germany 🤣

Germany AfD: Merkel fires minister over far right row https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51427957

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 08, 2020, 08:04:41 pm
In the meantime, purges continue... in Germany 🤣

Germany AfD: Merkel fires minister over far right row https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51427957

This came out to the surface only because the AfD was feeling cocky and they couldn't keep their mouth shut. Next time, they will do it again, but more surreptitiously.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 08:28:36 pm
The Cold War ended 30 years ago.  Russia isn't a threat to America, maybe Eastern Europe.

Say what???

Quote
Also to Hillary.  Mainly, they;re your problem.  Why are you buying their natural gas instead of ours and building a pipeline that you,ll have to rely on Russia?  Seems rather foolish.  What if they shut the spigot when you have an argument with them?

Are you that fooled, into believing that's the only thing done? Europe has made deals with the USA and others as well.

However,
Daily Satellite Observations of Methane from Oil and Gas Production Regions in the United States
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-57678-4.pdf?origin=ppub, but that's yet another threat to the planet, courtesy of the dysfunctional USA government.

But then, some are not interested in the truth, are you? In case you are: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=131117.msg1151334#msg1151334

Anyway, the Russian economy would tank (as long as Trump's plans to forget about the Crimea invasion do not materialize), and Putin might risk re-election into power or create social unrest. Putin first needs, as he is trying, to change the law's re-election terms and Trump is being helpful (WHY?).
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 08:39:23 pm
Say what???

Are you that fooled, into believing that's the only thing done? Europe has made deals with the USA and others as well.

However,
Daily Satellite Observations of Methane from Oil and Gas Production Regions in the United States
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-57678-4.pdf?origin=ppub, but that's yet another threat to the planet, courtesy of the dysfunctional USA government.

But then, some are not interested in the truth, are you?

Anyway, the Russian economy would tank (as long as Trump's plans to forget about the Crimea invasion do not materialize), and Putin might risk re-election into power or create social unrest. Putin first needs, as he is trying, to change the law's re-election terms and Trump is being helpful (WHY?).
You're trying to divert attention to the main question.  Why is Europe getting into bed with and relying on Russian gas and pipeline for your survival?   That's worse the the Turks buying Russian missiles.  Why is America spending all our money defending you against Russia when you apparently don;t seem so concerned?  We should pack up our troops and send them home.  You seem to have the Russians under control.  If Trump wins re-election, I think you'll see him pull out of Europe for these reasons just like he pulled out of JCPOA, Paris, and various trade agreements. It's not in our interest at what it costs us.  We need our money for health care.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 08, 2020, 08:50:44 pm
Meanwhile, back at home, Trump is defending his fake tan and dyed hair on Twitter:

"More Fake News. This was photoshopped, obviously, but the wind was strong and the hair looks good? Anything to demean!"

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-trump-tan-orange-bronze-photo-20200208-aupdbo53mbgfvhicedqivlgaua-story.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 08:53:16 pm
You're trying to divert attention to the main question.  Why is Europe getting into bed with and relying on Russian gas and pipeline for your survival?

Since the USA has proven to be an unreliable partner, Europe has started to reduce it's reliance on the USA, as a (former) partner.

Quote
That's worse the Turks buying Russian missiles

They are not Europeans, but the USA (or rather Trump, and his sheeple) apparently think they are. Europe does't ...

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 08, 2020, 09:05:47 pm
...  We need our money for health care.
divert some money from Defense for real needs since you already have a 10x stronger army than anyone else...and enough nuclear warheads to kill the earth a few times.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 08, 2020, 09:17:08 pm
In the meantime, purges continue... in Germany 🤣

Germany AfD: Merkel fires minister over far right row https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51427957

Let me know when she fires his brother as well.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 09:18:33 pm
Let me know when she fires his brother as well.

Ouch ...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 08, 2020, 09:21:24 pm
Meanwhile, back at home, Trump is defending his fake tan and dyed hair on Twitter:

"More Fake News. This was photoshopped, obviously, but the wind was strong and the hair looks good? Anything to demean!"

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-trump-tan-orange-bronze-photo-20200208-aupdbo53mbgfvhicedqivlgaua-story.html

I will admit, there is nothing much to defend there.

However, I am sure we all, at a certain age, start to make excuses for our physical veneer.  For instance, my beard is half grey, but hey, I still have a full head of hair that is still the right color.  Although my wife tells me I have a few grey hairs in the back; I tell her she is delusional. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:24:04 pm
Since the USA has proven to be an unreliable partner, Europe has started to reduce it's reliance on the USA, as a (former) partner.

...

If that's how you feel, all the more reason the US should send our troops home.  We'll save defense money to spend on healthcare.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:28:37 pm
In the meantime, purges continue... in Germany 🤣

Germany AfD: Merkel fires minister over far right row https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51427957


Your mean Merkle acted like a Queen purging duly elected people?  Don't they have democracy over there? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 10:34:17 pm
If that's how you feel, all the more reason the US should send our troops home.  We'll save defense money to spend on healthcare.

While ypu (should) know that ain't gonna happen. That's truely deplorable and sheeplish posturing.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 10:48:06 pm
While ypu (should) know that ain't gonna happen. That's truely deplorable and sheeplish posturing.
What's deplorable is that so many European members of NATO don't pay their fair share as promised and expect American taxpayers to make up the difference.  Why should we spend our money defending you when you care little to defend yourself?  You realize this arrangement won;t last if Trump gets re-elected.  He's no one's fool.  He's complained a lot and you have started to increase spending.  But not by much.  He's just keeping quiet until after the election.  He'll drop the boom then.  He'll pull out a battalion or two to send a message.  Then everyone will wet their pants in panic and cough up some real money for European defense. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 08, 2020, 10:52:26 pm
Meanwhile, back at home, Trump is defending his fake tan and dyed hair on Twitter:

"More Fake News. This was photoshopped, obviously, but the wind was strong and the hair looks good? Anything to demean!"

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-trump-tan-orange-bronze-photo-20200208-aupdbo53mbgfvhicedqivlgaua-story.html

Looks like someone who wears a ballcap when outside in the sun while playing golf and such but then again what do I know?

(https://media.golfdigest.com/photos/55ad7c1bb01eefe207f70dfc/master/w_768/blogs-the-loop-patrick-reed-tan-wow.jpg)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 08, 2020, 10:58:02 pm
What's deplorable is that so many European members of NATO don't pay their fair share as promised and expect American taxpayers to make up the difference.  Why should we spend our money defending you when you care little to defend yourself?  You realize this arrangement won;t last if Trump gets re-elected.  He's no one's fool.  He's complained a lot and you have started to increase spending.  But not by much.  He's just keeping quiet until after the election.  He'll drop the boom then.  He'll pull out a battalion or two to send a message.  Then everyone will wet their pants in panic and cough up some real money for European defense.

Trump on  Letterman in 1987,sound familiar?  He was the darling of the left back then. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYCPO2QDjxg
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 11:17:59 pm
Trump on  Letterman in 1987,sound familiar?  He was the darling of the left back then. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYCPO2QDjxg
Good video.  He talks about foreign countries unfairness starting after 10:10.  Really interesting.  He hasn't change much in his beliefs.  He's doing as president exactly how he felt back then 33 years ago.  Actually the whole interview shows how he feels about incompetent government and how it should be corrected which he's doing a pretty good job of it. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2020, 11:19:16 pm
What's deplorable is that so many European members of NATO don't pay their fair share as promised and expect American taxpayers to make up the difference.

Where are you getting that idea?

 
Quote
Why should we spend our money defending you when you care little to defend yourself?

You are defending yourself. We have no illusions that you care about Europe as an advanced warning post (even if you should).

Europe's part of the NATO 'coalition' has agreed to increase it's level of military spending, up to 2% of GDP, and is on track. The USA has been sending mixed signals instead. Europe does challenge the rigid (old-style USA) framework since drones and cyber warfare have been developing.

Europe (i.e. The Netherlands) has penetrated Iranian nuclear sites (allowing the USA to plant a Stuxnet virus) and has penetrated Russian troll factories (hijacking their on-location webcams). Keep pissing off European partners, instead of joining forces, and we'll start focusing on merely our own interests.



Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 08, 2020, 11:50:52 pm
Where are you getting that idea?

 
You are defending yourself. We have no illusions that you care about Europe as an advanced warning post (even if you should).

Europe's part of the NATO 'coalition' has agreed to increase it's level of military spending, up to 2% of GDP, and is on track. The USA has been sending mixed signals instead. Europe does challenge the rigid (old-style USA) framework since drones and cyber warfare have been developing.

Europe (i.e. The Netherlands) has penetrated Iranian nuclear sites (allowing the USA to plant a Stuxnet virus) and has penetrated Russian troll factories (hijacking their on-location webcams). Keep pissing off European partners, instead of joining forces, and we'll start focusing on merely our own interests.




The Netherlands is NOT on track to meet its commitments.  It will only meet a 1.3% expenditure by 2024 while they promised 5 years ago to meet 2%.  No one is denying there is joint purpose in our common defense.  But you're not pulling your own weight. It's unfair to American taxpayers that we are doing part of your share.  Previous presidents are saps.  Trump's no one's fool.  No wonder you want him defeated in 2020. 
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/05/dutch-must-do-more-to-meet-nato-spending-targets-us-ambassador/
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2020, 04:05:43 am
Let me know when she fires his brother as well.

I didn’t get the brother reference?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 09, 2020, 06:02:49 am
I didn’t get the brother reference?

Her younger brother is Marcus Kasner, a scientist who used to work in IT in city of Darmstadt just south of Frankfurt. Coincidentally, Darmstadt TH University was my alma mater, that' s why I remember about him.  But he got around, studying and working also in other cities. AFAIK, he kept a low profile and was not active in the political life.

https://taz.de/!556150/

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 09, 2020, 07:24:07 am
I didn’t get the brother reference?

Vindman’s brother was also fired for no apparent reason.  (https://theweek.com/speedreads/894639/alexander-vindmans-twin-brother-wasnt-impeachment-witness-still-fired)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 09, 2020, 08:21:27 am
Vindman’s brother was also fired for no apparent reason.  (https://theweek.com/speedreads/894639/alexander-vindmans-twin-brother-wasnt-impeachment-witness-still-fired)

We knew that, but we assumed you talked about Angela Merkel and her brother. Too bad, you didn't write it like that in your original reply to Slobodan's comment.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 09, 2020, 08:38:52 am
What with partisan gerrymandering, voters being systematically dis-enfranchised, and the recent Democratic party voting debacle in the primary, should the UN be considering sending election observers into the US?  :)

How is it possible to create such a clusterf**k? Maybe sub-contract it all to Amazon or Google or somebody, hell even Microsoft, at the very least get the whole system out of the hands of the political parties, which is insane on the face of it. Honestly, it's embarrassing.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 09, 2020, 08:46:31 am
What with partisan gerrymandering, voters being systematically dis-enfranchised, and the recent Democratic party voting debacle in the primary, should the UN be considering sending election observers into the US?  :)

How is it possible to create such a clusterf**k? Maybe sub-contract it all to Amazon or Google or somebody, hell even Microsoft, at the very least get the whole system out of the hands of the political parties, which is insane on the face of it. Honestly, it's embarrassing.
Republicans have always run things better based on the buck.  Democrats run things based on the heart.  The Republican Iowa caucus went off without a hitch.  It was only the Democrat caucus that screwed up.  The Federal government seems to run better under Trump.  So it's more than embarrassing.  It will affect the vote in November.  Voters will have to decide if things are better today than they were four years ago. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 09, 2020, 09:25:48 am
Republicans have always run things better based on the buck.  Democrats run things based on the heart. 
Do you say republicans have no moral other than $$$ ?
Anyway the deficit is rising with giant steps under Trump and when the economy is going well it is the time to do something about it... because now it is possible. In the Netherlands we took that road and have lowered our deficit over the last years.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 09, 2020, 09:36:43 am
Honestly, it's embarrassing.

Only to Democrats. To Republicans it's hilarious!
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 09, 2020, 09:43:06 am
In the Netherlands we took that road and have lowered our deficit over the last years.

Maybe spending only 1.2% of GDP on defense helps to explain that, Pieter.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 09, 2020, 09:48:17 am
Do you say republicans have no moral other than $$$ ?
Anyway the deficit is rising with giant steps under Trump and when the economy is going well it is the time to do something about it... because now it is possible. In the Netherlands we took that road and have lowered our deficit over the last years.
Going into debt and bankrupting your family or country is not being moral.  God wants us to be good stewards of our finances.  There's no conflict with that and being charitable.  Just don;t be stupid about it.  Sanders would destroy the golden goose that America is to complete some socialist/communist belief he has. I'd rather vote for Biden.  After all, how much damage could he do while napping? 

You lowered your debt by passing on defense expenditures to US nitwits who are clueless about European intent.  That's what we should do by pulling out of NATO.  We could save a bunch.   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 09, 2020, 09:53:41 am
You lowered your debt by passing on defense expenditures to US nitwits who are clueless about European intent.  That's what we should do by pulling out of NATO.  We could save a bunch.
Maybe spending only 1.2% of GDP on defense helps to explain that, Pieter.

Aaahh  !   
are you both using AI for responding?
it does not work... as usual..
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2020, 09:55:04 am
I said this a couple of years ago in one of these threads: #1 geopolitical adversary of the US is not Russia, not China, but the EU. Why are we still in NATO then? Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on February 09, 2020, 10:16:43 am
I said this a couple of years ago in one of these threads: #1 geopolitical adversary of the US is not Russia, not China, but the EU. Why are we still in NATO then? Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer ;)

Reposted for posterity.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 09, 2020, 12:51:43 pm
I said this a couple of years ago in one of these threads: #1 geopolitical adversary of the US is not Russia, not China, but the EU. Why are we still in NATO then? Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer ;)

So you think the USA aligns with totalitarian states and that it's a good thing?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 09, 2020, 01:54:53 pm
So you think the USA aligns with totalitarian states and that it's a good thing?

I don't think that is what Slobodan said. Where did Slobodan say the USA aligns with totalitarian states?


Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2020, 01:59:25 pm
^ Thank you, exactly.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 09, 2020, 03:34:05 pm
Well, it is holding hands with Saudi, for one.

Slobodan is right, but also mistaken: the big three players are the US, China and the EU.

Trump is trying to cut the EU out of the game because it has potential to pass the US one of these days if it hangs together. That's why he broke all protocol and publicly announced that he would like to be best friends with Boris and/or Nigel because he thought them Britain's best leaders - in other words, he publicly backed the Brexit leaders because he knew that Britain within Europe was a big deal and quite likely one of the stabilising factors keeping his fear alive. Russia doesn't have the economy to let it count; it does have the nukes, though, as does China, but as we know, China also has the economy unless Corona does for it.

Divide and conquer kill. He doesn't give a hamburger for the UK - wait and see when it scurries, cap in hand, looking for its express big deal, the best deal any two countries ever made. It doesn't count anymore: it has served its purpose insofar as leaving and weakening the European Union is concerned.

The EU was not an adversary. All it did was have a combination of companies that makes 'planes many prefer to Boeing. It also doesn't like to poison itself with what it eats.



Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 09, 2020, 03:54:52 pm
Quote
The EU was not an adversary. All it did was have a combination of companies that makes 'planes many prefer to Boeing. It also doesn't like to poison itself with what it eats.

There is a lot of truth there.
I hear now from many people who used to have digestion, allergy and other problems when living in USA, and all their problems disappeared after moving to Europe or Mexico. Could have been also less exposure to the political stress. ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2020, 05:10:35 pm
... I hear now from many people who used to have digestion, allergy and other problems when living in USA, and all their problems disappeared after moving to Europe or Mexico...

The level of discourse is now dropping to old wives’ tales?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2020, 05:19:25 pm
.... Trump is trying to cut the EU out of the game because it has potential to pass the US one of these days if it hangs together... Russia doesn't have the economy to let it count; it does have the nukes, though, as does China, but as we know, China also has the economy unless Corona does for it...

Correct, Rob, that is what I had in mind. In addition to economy, Europe is committing a collective harakiri leaving a Muslim playground behind in 50 years, a major problem for all other civilized parties, notably the US, China, and Russia.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 09, 2020, 05:26:51 pm
The level of discourse is now dropping to old wives’ tales?

Quite the contrary. These are the real stories!
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2020, 05:40:51 pm
Quite the contrary. These are the real stories!

Well, here is another one: after fifteen years in the States without digestion, allergy or other problems (bar financial) I left and still have no digestion, allergy and other problems.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 09, 2020, 05:45:08 pm
Quote from: Slobodan Blagojevic link=topic=133787't bevfar behind..msg1151472#msg1151472 date=1581286765
Correct, Rob, that is what I had in mind. In addition to economy, Europe is committing a collective harakiri leaving a Muslim playground behind in 50 years, a major problem for all other civilized parties, notably the US, China, and Russia.

I think that Russia has quite a lot already: Chechnya? I bet you that the US won't be far behind soon.

Which may affect Israel in years to come: no automatic Big Brother to watch its back... maybe it's what the Palestinians are banking on these days: long hope.

On the other hand, if push comes to serious shove, who knows what may happen: who really believed India woukd split into two countries. And boy, it was violent and messy. Still is, all these years later.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 09, 2020, 05:59:17 pm
Well, here is another one: after fifteen years in the States without digestion, allergy or other problems (bar financial) I left and still have no digestion, allergy and other problems.

Me, too. I have had always a good stomach, Slobodan, and never got sick in USA. But I noticed a difference in the food quality when travelling to Europe. Both, in the restaurants and in the supermarkets.
How do you compare the Serbian cuisine to American?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2020, 06:11:09 pm
... How do you compare the Serbian cuisine to American?

Carbohydrates (pastry), meat and fats. Not that different. Though I prefer the taste of Serbian food (childhood memories). However, I find the choice for healthy eating in American supermarkets and restaurants wider and better. Visually, on the streets, the lack of whales is refreshing, I must admit.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 09, 2020, 06:22:42 pm
Carbohydrates (pastry), meat and fats. Not that different. Though I prefer the taste of Serbian food (childhood memories). However, I find the choice for healthy eating in American supermarkets and restaurants wider and better. Visually, on the streets, the lack of whales is refreshing, I must admit.

When I was last in Bosnia, my associates there took me to a Mexican restaurant.  The chicken was ok, but the "salsa" was, literally, ketchup. :) 

Afterward we went to a bar that featured a U2 cover band.  Good times :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 09, 2020, 06:40:52 pm
You haven't really lived until you've eaten in an "Italian" restaurant in Iceland.


Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 09, 2020, 06:42:39 pm
You haven't really lived until you've eaten in an "Italian" restaurant in Iceland.


Peter

Bolognese with rotten shark?  Yum.  ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 09, 2020, 06:46:41 pm
Bolognese with rotten shark?  Yum.  ;)

Almost...Bolognese with ketchup base to give it that Italian flavor.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 09, 2020, 08:32:14 pm
Almost...Bolognese with ketchup base to give it that Italian flavor.

Peter

Ketchup seems to be the base substitute for all manner of red sauce outside the states :D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 09, 2020, 09:16:15 pm
Ketchup seems to be the base substitute for all manner of red sauce outside the states :D

When I was ten years old my friend Michael O'Malley invited me to his house for a Spaghetti dinner one Friday night. In a time when Friday's were no meat days. I sat at the O'Malley dinner table of eleven, including me.  Now I was raised in an Italian-American home and was looking forward to Spaghetti.  It was served plain. A horror. Then the Ketchup was passed around. A Bigger Horror. I was dumbfounded. I asked for some butter and grated cheese.

This was 1966 New Jersey.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 09, 2020, 09:53:28 pm
I ate spaghetti with ketchup when I was a kid in The Bronx.  I'm not Italian.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 10, 2020, 06:08:23 am
I ate spaghetti with ketchup when I was a kid in The Bronx.  I'm not Italian.

I Know....; )
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: budjames on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 am
You haven't really lived until you've eaten in an "Italian" restaurant in Iceland.


Peter
That's the first and last time that I paid $60 for a plate of spaghetti. :)
Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 10, 2020, 08:38:44 am
That's the first and last time that I paid $60 for a plate of spaghetti. :)

That's almost $100 Canadian. I presume that was the cheapest item on the menu.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 10, 2020, 08:51:40 am
That's almost $100 Canadian. I presume that was the cheapest item on the menu.

I was there in '97 and a bottle of Budweiser tall boy (not my brand) was $12 American. The prices for food were crazy. Rotten Shark was very reasonable. : ) 

I was there as a guest with the USAF. I was then a part of the Government Services Art Program. I have been on a number of trips with USAF from '86-'99.  I enjoyed those trips immensely.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 10:22:39 am
I Know....; )
Jewish spaghetti sauce. :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 10:32:05 am
Here's an article about USAF activity in Iceland including eating rotten shark and other delicacies like Puffin, whale, etc.
https://www.stripes.com/news/fighter-jet-practice-and-shark-for-dinner-air-force-completes-iceland-mission-1.543879
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 10, 2020, 11:15:49 am
There's nothing in the world like getting the trots when you're airborne in a fighter.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 10, 2020, 11:19:31 am
https://www.foxnews.com/media/james-carville-cult-socialism-democrats-bernie-sanders

"James Carville warns of 'end of days' if Dems choose Bernie: 'I'm not interested in being in a cult!'"

Quote
“The only thing, the only thing between the United States and the abyss is the Democratic Party. That’s it. If we go the way of the British Labour Party, if we nominate Jeremy Corbyn, it’s going to be the end of days. ... So I am scared to death, I really am," said Carville...

.. Carville added that he considered himself a "liberal" rather than a centrist -- but Democrats went too far even for him.

"They’ve tacked off the damn radar screen," he said when asked if the party moved too far left.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 11:26:01 am
Sanders surging in New Hampshire to 28%.  Interesting how last time in 2016, the anti-Trump media consistently said how bad Trump was doing.  After all, they argued, his 30% votes in the nomination elections  meant that 70% of the people voted for and wanted someone else.  So he was going to lose.  Interesting how they forgot this analysis standard in today's analysis for the Democrats.  Based on their Trump analysis, Sanders has 72% of the people against him.   Of course, the anti-Trump "fake-news" press was just spinning the news back then.  Or did they have a point?
https://nypost.com/2020/02/10/new-hampshire-poll-shows-bernie-sanders-surging-joe-biden-faltering/
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 10, 2020, 11:29:56 am
Sanders surging in New Hampshire to 28%.  Interesting how last time in 2016, the anti-Trump media consistently said how bad Trump was doing.  After all, they argued, his 30% votes in the nomination elections  meant that 70% of the people voted for and wanted someone else.  So he was going to lose.  Interesting how they forgot this analysis standard in today's analysis for the Democrats.  Based on their Trump analysis, Sanders has 72% of the people against him.   Of course, the anti-Trump "fake-news" press was just spinning the news back then.  Or did they have a point?
https://nypost.com/2020/02/10/new-hampshire-poll-shows-bernie-sanders-surging-joe-biden-faltering/
Anything else you would like to whine about this morning?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 10, 2020, 11:37:29 am
In 2008, Rush Limbaugh called on his listeners to vote for Hillary Clinton.
The talk-radio host referred to his plan as “Operation Chaos,” and urged Republicans to vote for Hillary Clinton in order to keep her competitive against Barack Obama, who was gaining momentum in that year’s nomination battle. The idea was to wear down the eventual Democratic nominee… mentally, physically, and financially.

Allegedly, this year, the GOP asked their voters to prop Bernie Sanders.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 10, 2020, 11:43:42 am
https://www.foxnews.com/media/james-carville-cult-socialism-democrats-bernie-sanders

"James Carville warns of 'end of days' if Dems choose Bernie: 'I'm not interested in being in a cult!'"

Carville is a smart guy.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 10, 2020, 11:57:47 am
... Allegedly, this year, the GOP asked their voters to prop Bernie Sanders.

This is only partially possible. There are states where you'd have to be a registered Democrat to vote in their primaries (closed primary). There are approximately 25 states with open primaries, five of which allow only independent voters to vote (i.e., if you are a registered Republican, you can't). I am not an election scholar, so someone (Chris?) can correct me if wrong.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Adam L on February 10, 2020, 01:00:15 pm
UMass Lowell poll: 62% of New Hampshire Democrats would rather see a giant meteor strike the earth and extinguish all human life than see President Trump get re-elected.

(https://i1.wp.com/www.citizenfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/mig698.jpg?ssl=1)

 ;D ???
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 10, 2020, 02:20:29 pm
Anything else you would like to whine about this morning?

Please explain what you imagine that question contributed to the thread.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 10, 2020, 02:23:32 pm
Welp, it's starting to look like the Dems would rather destroy their credibility instead of taking the sane position.  During the debate Friday night, when asked if any of them would have a problem with a socialist on the ticket, not a single one said no. 

Good luck. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 10, 2020, 02:27:57 pm
This is only partially possible. There are states where you'd have to be a registered Democrat to vote in their primaries (closed primary). There are approximately 25 states with open primaries, five of which allow only independent voters to vote (i.e., if you are a registered Republican, you can't). I am not an election scholar, so someone (Chris?) can correct me if wrong.
Correct. Some states allow voting without registration, but most, including the most populous, require registration to a party.
 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 03:15:26 pm
UMass Lowell poll: 62% of New Hampshire Democrats would rather see a giant meteor strike the earth and extinguish all human life than see President Trump get re-elected.

(https://i1.wp.com/www.citizenfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/mig698.jpg?ssl=1)

 ;D ???

So 62% wanted a meteor instead of Trump.  Well, if they included all choices in their poll, they would have found that 72% would prefer a meteor over a democrat.  :)  The fact is NH has a Republican governor and many are very happy with the new NAFTA agreement (USMCA) as NH does more international trade with Canada than China and the new Trump agreement is good for their residents.  Trump only lost by 3000 votes in 2016.  So the poll you posted may just be more wishful thinking by poll takers with TDS.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 03:16:23 pm
Please explain what you imagine that question contributed to the thread.

Jeremy
That's OK.  I'm use to it.  He sounds like my wife. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 10, 2020, 03:56:55 pm
In the meantime, this is our "love trumps hate," tolerant and inclusive left:

Viral video shows individual threatening pro-Trump student group: 'Slash Republican throats!'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/arizona-state-trump-slash-republican-throats

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 04:03:33 pm
In the meantime, this is our "love trumps hate," tolerant and inclusive left:

Viral video shows individual threatening pro-Trump student group: 'Slash Republican throats!'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/arizona-state-trump-slash-republican-throats


That's one way of shutting down debate. :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 10, 2020, 04:05:35 pm
In the meantime, this is our "love trumps hate," tolerant and inclusive left:

Viral video shows individual threatening pro-Trump student group: 'Slash Republican throats!'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/arizona-state-trump-slash-republican-throats
I am sure there are fine people on both sides.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 04:08:21 pm
I am sure there are fine people on both sides.
Thanks for appealing for sanity on both sides.  Can't we just get along.  Just like Trump.  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 10, 2020, 04:19:09 pm
Welp, it's starting to look like the Dems would rather destroy their credibility instead of taking the sane position.  During the debate Friday night, when asked if any of them would have a problem with a socialist on the ticket, not a single one said no. 

Good luck.

Amy did. She raised her hand
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 10, 2020, 04:19:23 pm
In the meantime, this is our "love trumps hate," tolerant and inclusive left:

Viral video shows individual threatening pro-Trump student group: 'Slash Republican throats!'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/arizona-state-trump-slash-republican-throats

That's abhorrent. These must be the same students who want their student loans cancelled.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 04:21:56 pm
Amy did. She raised her hand

Yes Kobluchar wants to be president of Middle America.  East from western Pennsylvania to west around the Plains states. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 10, 2020, 04:53:42 pm
In the meantime, this is our "love trumps hate," tolerant and inclusive left:

Viral video shows individual threatening pro-Trump student group: 'Slash Republican throats!'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/arizona-state-trump-slash-republican-throats

But can we talk about the real crime? (R) on (R) violence! (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cpac-chair-matt-schlapp-afraid-for-romneys-safety_n_5e40a048c5b6f1f57f1365d4?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=politics_fb&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics&fbclid=IwAR2bj58GsgbdQDciqKGmdVKVynZ4hBG_Pq85Nk7CnqxID6gMfOua62LSY1A)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 05:17:39 pm
So Amy's in third position in New Hampshire.  Thank Pelosi. 

OPINION
Why Klobuchar is gaining while Biden is collapsing
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/why-amy-klobuchar-is-gaining-while-joe-biden-is-collapsing
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 10, 2020, 05:37:50 pm
So Amy's in third position in New Hampshire.  Thank Pelosi. 

OPINION
Why Klobuchar is gaining while Biden is collapsing
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/why-amy-klobuchar-is-gaining-while-joe-biden-is-collapsing

Honestly, I think Amy (Along with Bloomberg) is probably the one you don't want to face. And a Bloomberg Amy ticket would be damn strong.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 10, 2020, 05:38:51 pm
+1
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 08:00:19 pm
Honestly, I think Amy (Along with Bloomberg) is probably the one you don't want to face. And a Bloomberg Amy ticket would be damn strong.
I agree.   Don't you think it would be delicious irony that a billionaire,  one of the richest people in America and the world,  might represent the democrat party?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 10, 2020, 08:00:57 pm
Honestly, I think Amy (Along with Bloomberg) is probably the one you don't want to face. And a Bloomberg Amy ticket would be damn strong.

You think the Bernie bro’s will be down with that?  Nothing like 50 billion bucks buying the White House to fire up those “democratic” socialists.  North Carolina will tell us a lot about how the black vote feels about Bloomie as well.    Amy has zero chance, at least in my humble opinion. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 10, 2020, 08:05:30 pm
I agree.   Don't you think it would be delicious irony that a billionaire,  one of the richest people in America and the world,  might represent the democrat party?

I guess in a sense, but there's a large portion of Democrats voters (like me) that are very socially liberal but not so big on the "tear it all down" Bernie types.  Put another way, not all of us that tend to vote left of center hate successful people ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 10, 2020, 08:08:40 pm
You think the Bernie bro’s will be down with that?  Nothing like 50 billion bucks buying the White House to fire up those “democratic” socialists.  North Carolina will tell us a lot about how the black vote feels about Bloomie as well.    Amy has zero chance, at least in my humble opinion.

I don't think the Bernie Bros will be down at all, but on the other hand I think Bloomberg has a very real shot at capturing some moderates that would be terrified of Bernie.  As for Klobuchar, I just don't know.  If she can break out of the pack I think she's an intriguing candidate, and I think having a woman on the ticket would strengthen the trend of female suburban swing voters that turned away from republicans in the recent midterms.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 10, 2020, 08:09:26 pm
I agree.   Don't you think it would be delicious irony that a billionaire,  one of the richest people in America and the world,  might represent the democrat party?

Nothing wrong with some of the billionaires. Bloomberg, Musk, Bezos, Branson, Gates, they all seem nice and accomplished fellows.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 10, 2020, 08:18:30 pm
I don't think the Bernie Bros will be down at all, but on the other hand I think Bloomberg has a very real shot at capturing some moderates that would be terrified of Bernie.  As for Klobuchar, I just don't know.  If she can break out of the pack I think she's an intriguing candidate, and I think having a woman on the ticket would strengthen the trend of female suburban swing voters that turned away from republicans in the recent midterms.

No quibble from me on Bloomie’s potential appeal to moderates who I think vote Trump over Bernie.  But if you lose the votes of the Bernie Bro’s there is a very good chance IMO the Dem turnout falls woefully short. 

Amy, interesting, yes, both my wife and I agree on that after watching her in the last debate.  Electable, and breaking of the pack?  A real long shot.

And I’m not convince 2018 numbers a going to apply. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 10, 2020, 08:42:11 pm
No quibble from me on Bloomie’s potential appeal to moderates who I think vote Trump over Bernie.  But if you lose the votes of the Bernie Bro’s there is a very good chance IMO the Dem turnout falls woefully short.

No disagreement here.   It's one of the major differences in the parties IMHO.   The Dems need to pull together a wider range of priorities than the Rs do.  Some of that is structural, some cultural.  Ezra Klein wrote a fantastic piece (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/24/opinion/sunday/democrats-republicans-polarization.html) on this issue a week or two back. 

Amy, interesting, yes, both my wife and I agree on that after watching her in the last debate.  Electable, and breaking of the pack?  A real long shot.

I think those are separate issues.  Electable when the choice is her vs. a singular opponent that allows here to present a contrasting alternative?  I think that's workable, and as I said, I think she'd also be a killer VP candidate.  Differentiating from other same-party candidates where the contrast is not in policy as much as excitement?  Probably more difficult.

And I’m not convince 2018 numbers a going to apply.

I'm not either (or at least it would be a mistake for Democrats to take it as a given), but I'd be very surprised if we saw educated suburban women swing back to Trump as a group.  More likely than that (IMHO of course) is Trump making inroads into the male minority vote.  I don't think will be much, but I suspect it won't take much either way for some of the battleground states to be impacted one way or another.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 10, 2020, 09:57:03 pm
No disagreement here.   It's one of the major differences in the parties IMHO.   The Dems need to pull together a wider range of priorities than the Rs do.  Some of that is structural, some cultural.  Ezra Klein wrote a fantastic piece (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/24/opinion/sunday/democrats-republicans-polarization.html) on this issue a week or two back. 

I think those are separate issues.  Electable when the choice is her vs. a singular opponent that allows here to present a contrasting alternative?  I think that's workable, and as I said, I think she'd also be a killer VP candidate.  Differentiating from other same-party candidates where the contrast is not in policy as much as excitement?  Probably more difficult.

I'm not either (or at least it would be a mistake for Democrats to take it as a given), but I'd be very surprised if we saw educated suburban women swing back to Trump as a group.  More likely than that (IMHO of course) is Trump making inroads into the male minority vote.  I don't think will be much, but I suspect it won't take much either way for some of the battleground states to be impacted one way or another.
That will  be interesting if Bloomberg wins the nomination.  He had a stringent frisk and search policy that he supported strongly for years as NYC mayor. that targeted minorities mainly.   Of course, he's already apologized for it because he's running for president.  It will be interesting to see what minorities do about it, stay home for the vote, or what?  He's become a strong wild card, just reached third nationally in the polls without even getting a single vote.  He's going to become a strong replacement vote for Sanders on the left and Kobluchar and Buttigieg in the middle. Biden's done thanks to Pelosi.  Maybe that was Pelosi and the Democrat's plans.  TO get Biden out of the race and open it up to someone like Bloomberg.  The Dems don't want to lose another election.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 11, 2020, 08:19:55 am
Amy did. She raised her hand

Wasn't it  half heartedly and after a  few seconds though? 

That does not really say I will fight communism. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 11, 2020, 08:28:37 am
Wasn't it  half heartedly and after a  few seconds though? 

That does not really say I will fight communism. 

They are all commies. Democrats. Some of them just don't know it yet.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 11, 2020, 08:34:42 am
Interesting news piece.  I would post the original, but I don't get the Washington Post. 

Washington Post editorial board declares Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar aren't 'centrists' (https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-post-editorial-board-biden-buttigieg)

"'In fact, every major Democratic candidate is running on an agenda to the left of Mr. Obama’s,' the Post editorial board wrote."

I feel like you Dems already know this though.  As an outsider looking in, it really does seem like the Dems are looking far and wide, high and low, under every nook and cranny, just for somebody, anybody, that can beat beat Trump.  Sort of like the Republicans in 2012. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 11, 2020, 09:32:39 am
Bloomberg leads in New Hampshire. :)
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/11/dixville-notch-votes-michael-bloomberg-113844
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 11, 2020, 10:37:53 am
They are all commies. Democrats. Some of them just don't know it yet.

I thought we all agreed not to go over the top anymore.  ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 11, 2020, 10:40:44 am
Bloomberg leads in New Hampshire. :)
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/11/dixville-notch-votes-michael-bloomberg-113844

Apparently he leads the Republican primary as well :D

Quote
Bloomberg received three write-in votes, one from a Republican and two from Democrats. The remaining votes went to Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 11, 2020, 10:50:19 am
I wouldn't expect any meaningful votes for Bloomberg in NH, but he can now participate in the Nevada debate, so he should do better there.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 11, 2020, 12:01:11 pm
I wouldn't expect any meaningful votes for Bloomberg in NH, but he can now participate in the Nevada debate, so he should do better there.

Well, he'll buy Nevada.  Then they'll all vote for him. :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 11, 2020, 12:27:55 pm
Wow! 

I know it is a little early, but the fact that Klobuchar is currently in the lead is surprising.  She current has double the amount of support as Sanders. 

Biden has already left the state to campaign in SC; he looks to be finished. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 11, 2020, 01:01:18 pm
Wow! 

I know it is a little early, but the fact that Klobuchar is currently in the lead is surprising.  She current has double the amount of support as Sanders. 

That was the midnight report, by now she will be trailing Bernie and Pete.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 11, 2020, 01:20:13 pm
That was the midnight report, by now she will be trailing Bernie and Pete.

Hey, I can have hopes you know. 

I think she is the only candidate that could actually beat Trump.  It would be a great campaign of Center Right vs. Center Left focusing mainly on policy (although I still feel Klobuchar would have to deal with Bernie Bros sitting out the election). 

EDIT Any other candidate would get eaten alive by either Trump or the Woke Left.  Klobuchar though seems to have a magic comb she can defend herself with.   ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 11, 2020, 01:23:21 pm
OMG! OMG! I love Mike Bloomberg!

Anyone having the courage to speak the truth against the prevailing political correctness gets my vote. Sorry, Trump.

Quote
"Ninety-five percent of murders- murderers and murder victims fit one M.O. You can just take a description, Xerox it, and pass it out to all the cops," he said. "They are male, minorities, 16-25. That's true in New York, that's true in virtually every city (inaudible). And that's where the real crime is. You've got to get the guns out of the hands of people that are getting killed."

Quote
"So one of the unintended consequences is people say, 'Oh my God, you are arresting kids for marijuana that are all minorities.' Yes, that's true. Why? Because we put all the cops in minority neighborhoods," Bloomberg is heard saying on the recording. "Yes, that's true. Why do we do it? Because that's where all the crime is. And the way you get the guns out of the kids' hands is to throw them up against the wall and frisk them... And then they start... 'Oh I don't want to get caught.' So they don't bring the gun. They still have a gun, but they leave it at home."

(emphasis mine)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bloomberg-stop-and-frisk

Wait, what!?

He said that in 2015 but later apologized?

I will never vote for someone who apologizes for the things they did deliberately and as a matter of practice. Apologies should be reserved for stepping on someone's toes, inadvertently, in public transport, for instance. You did, own it, stand by it. Be a man.

Even Biden would get my vote (if running against Romney) for things he said, repeatedly, about thugs and illegals throughout his earlier career, had he not apologized for it later.

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 11, 2020, 02:43:49 pm
OMG! OMG! I love Mike Bloomberg!

Anyone having the courage to speak the truth against the prevailing political correctness gets my vote. Sorry, Trump.

(emphasis mine)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bloomberg-stop-and-frisk

Wait, what!?

He said that in 2015 but later apologized?

I will never vote for someone who apologizes for the things they did deliberately and as a matter of practice. Apologies should be reserved for stepping on someone's toes, inadvertently, in public transport, for instance. You did, own it, stand by it. Be a man.

Even Biden would get my vote (if running against Romney) for things he said, repeatedly, about thugs and illegals throughout his earlier career, had he not apologized for it later.


It's all so obvious: those who look the part often play it, though there are exceptions.

When we first came to Spain to live here, I did a lot of flying back and forth to Scotland, and on one trip I was accompanied back by my son. Both of us wear jeans, and I had the beard (and the Rolex) and naturally, both of us were called over by customs when we did the usual (honest) thing and went through the green path. Looking like a bum wearing things you shouldn't be able to afford must ring little bells under the counter too. The guy went through both our cases, very politely, and I said to him, it's the jeans and beard, isn't it? He just smiled... I guess that males travelling alone or in pairs, and the flight departure cities are known, do also connect the dots. Ironically, I always carried the invoice for that watch whenever I travelled because I didn't want to be hit for customs duty, but he didn't ask. Maybe my grammar and accent were both better than he'd expected. :-)

Now, why would I be surprised to be stopped and searched if I was young, razor bald, tattooed and wore the garb of the day or, perhaps, strode along wearing a gown and running beads in my fingers? It seems to make perfect sense to go for the stereotype first. If innocent and not carrying, why be upset?

Political correctness can cost lives.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 11, 2020, 04:16:56 pm
Bloomberg is an opportunist.  He'll switch because he's a politician.  All phonies.   Trump said stuff 40 years ago that he stands by today.  That's why people hate him.  And like him.   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 11, 2020, 05:35:54 pm
That was the midnight report, by now she will be trailing Bernie and Pete.

Well you better hope not Sanders.  New Gallop poll last month found that 53 percent said that they would not vote for their party nominee if they were a, "generally well-qualified person for president who happened to be socialist."
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 11, 2020, 05:54:50 pm
Well you better hope not Sanders.  New Gallop poll last month found that 53 percent said that they would not vote for their party nominee if they were a, "generally well-qualified person for president who happened to be socialist."

Sanders winning NH doesn't concern me, except that if he wins NH then tanks the hardcore Bernie fans will be out in force spouting their conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 11, 2020, 06:01:05 pm
Sanders winning NH doesn't concern me, except that if he wins NH then tanks the hardcore Bernie fans will be out in force spouting their conspiracy theories.

It really is amazing, everyone is pretty much saying it is Bloomberg's primary to loose right now. 

But every time I read these opinions, I cant help but think of my brother (hardcore Bernie Bro) going off the rails over a Bloomberg candidacy but only displeased about a Trump presidency.  Perhaps it was more of a brief realization that he does not truly understand the reality of his party, his Inspector Javier moment.   

Anyway, everyone said it was Biden's to loose, and Buttigieg's to loose, and Warren's to loose, and new Bloomberg's to loose. 

Perhaps the terror will really come to fruition and you will be forced to defend a socialist who once said Castro was a better person than JFK, and has never recanted it.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 11, 2020, 06:10:55 pm


Perhaps the terror will really come to fruition and you will be forced to defend a socialist who once said Castro was a better person than JFK, and has never recanted it.

No idea why you think I'd defend Bernie.   I live in Texas, so I have the luxury of being able to vote my conscience because Texas is still reliably red.  Not that I would ever vote for Donald Trump, but if my real-life choices are Trump or Bernie, I could easily vote Libertarian again (as I did in 2012). 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 11, 2020, 06:12:53 pm
No idea why you think I'd defend Bernie.   I live in Texas, so I have the luxury of being able to vote my conscience because Texas is still reliably red.  Not that I would ever vote for Donald Trump, but if my real-life choices are Trump or Bernie, I could easily vote Libertarian again (as I did in 2012).

I meant "you" as in the Democrat party, not you specifically.  Apologies. 

However, I do see some light.  It seems that those in the media are realizing their mistakes and coming to grips with Bernie.  Chris Matthews is now talking against Sanders. 



Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 11, 2020, 06:44:11 pm
Bloomberg is an opportunist.  He'll switch because he's a politician.  All phonies.   Trump said stuff 40 years ago that he stands by today. That's why people hate him.  And like him.

Maybe he is standing by some of the stuff 40 years ago. But now, there is much more stuff, on which he changes his stand overnight.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 11, 2020, 06:48:52 pm
Maybe he is standing by some of the stuff 40 years ago. But now, there is much more stuff, on which he changes his stand overnight.
List some important stuff he's changed his mind over.  The stuff I'm talking about for example is trade agreements that took advantage of America.  He's changed NAFTA and working on others.  China stealing our stuff and creating an unfair business environment for foreign businesses in their country.   Illegals taking jobs away from Americans.  These are things he complained about years ago.  Iran comes to mind as well.  NATO 2%. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 11, 2020, 07:00:10 pm
Nothing wrong with some of the billionaires. Bloomberg, Musk, Bezos, Branson, Gates, they all seem nice and accomplished fellows.
Democrats are the ones mainly who complain about money running politics.  So here's Bloomberg, a guy who's trying to buy the presidency.  Trump did it on the cheap.  He hardly spent any of his money on it.  But the main point is how can Democrats argue against money in politics and support a guy worth $55 billion who's offering Democrat candidates money for their campaigns (for supporting his presidential run)?  Bloomberg was the NY mayor who bought a third term against the law by promising and helping politicians on NYC's Counsel to change the law so he could run for a third term, which he did and won.  I have to admit also that he screwed me out of an 8% raise in 2008.  It cost me thousands in salary and pension, the jerk.  >:(
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 11, 2020, 07:03:27 pm
List some important stuff he's changed his mind over.  The stuff I'm talking about for example is trade agreements that took advantage of America.  He's changed NAFTA and working on others.  China stealing our stuff and creating an unfair business environment for foreign businesses in their country.   Illegals taking jobs away from Americans.  These are things he complained about years ago.  Iran comes to mind as well.  NATO 2%.

I don't listen to all his speeches, but there are people who keep a detailed record of all his "inaccuracies".
The last twist was that yesterday he asked the Justice Department to reduce Stone's sentence for his crimes, and today he said he stayed out of it.
Call it whatever you like, but from outside it doesn't look very credible.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 11, 2020, 07:05:25 pm
Democrats are the ones mainly who complain about money running politics.  So here's Bloomberg, a guy who's trying to buy the presidency.  Trump did it on the cheap.  He hardly spent any of his money on it.  But the main point is how can Democrats argue against money in politics and support a guy worth $55 billion who's offering Democrat candidates money for their campaigns (for supporting his presidential run)?  Bloomberg was the NY mayor who bought a third term against the law by promising and helping politicians on NYC's Counsel to change the law so he could run for a third term, which he did and won.  I have to admit also that he screwed me out of an 8% raise in 2008.  It cost me thousands in salary and pension, the jerk.  >:(

I seem to recall, that you said that Trump screwed you also out of some money or contracts.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 11, 2020, 07:27:27 pm
I don't listen to all his speeches, but there are people who keep a detailed record of all his "inaccuracies".
The last twist was that yesterday he asked the Justice Department to reduce Stone's sentence for his crimes, and today he said he stayed out of it.
Call it whatever you like, but from outside it doesn't look very credible.
Petty stuff.  The fact is Trump kept his word on the important stuff.  All the lists of inaccuracies are "gotchas" because they cannot argue against his big items that he kept his word on from his campaign.  So what about all the Democrats who are running away from all their old statements and positions? "I never said it.  It wasn;t me.  You misunderstood what I said. I must have been ill when I said it. I'm a different person today at 77.  The times were different. Someone twisted my arm. It was taken out of context. I was told the microphone was off."  Did I miss any? :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 11, 2020, 07:28:42 pm
I seem to recall, that you said that Trump screwed you also out of some money or contracts.
Re-read my post.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 11, 2020, 07:48:31 pm
Re-read my post.

You are right, I didn't remember it correctly, it was an old post. You didn't say that he screwed you, just that he was a lousy payer.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=131029.msg1120137#msg1120137

also:

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=132094.msg1130316#msg1130316

where you said you wouldn't work for a guy like Trump. I can sympathize with you.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 11, 2020, 08:06:36 pm
Isn’t the Democratic platform that billionaires should not exist?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 01:21:47 am
You are right, I didn't remember it correctly, it was an old post. You didn't say that he screwed you, just that he was a lousy payer.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=131029.msg1120137#msg1120137

also:

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=132094.msg1130316#msg1130316

where you said you wouldn't work for a guy like Trump. I can sympathize with you.
I said Trump like many real estate developers was cheap and I was screwed by one of them who didn't pay my bill, but not Trump.  I never worked for him and would be cautious if I had the opportunity.  Bloomberg screwed me as Mayor when he canceled my 8% raise when I worked for NYC.  He also as mayor failed to negotiate a raise with the teacher's union when my wife was a teacher in NYC.  I would rate him as more concerned with national debt than Trump although I doubt if he would want to use his money to balance the budget. :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 12, 2020, 02:22:34 am
NH Results:

Bernie Sanders   9   25.7%   71,759
Pete Buttigieg     9   24.4%   68,141
Amy Klobuchar   6   19.8%   55,164
Elizabeth Warren 0   9.3%   25,899
Joe Biden           0   8.4%   23,475

It was widely expected that Bernie Sanders will win, but even more surprising was that Buttiegieg did so well on Sanders' turf and placed within 1% after him.
Amy Klobuchar's surge was also very impressive, getting twice as many votes as Warren and Biden. Not something any of the political analysts were predicting.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 12, 2020, 02:39:28 am
NH Results:

Bernie Sanders   9   25.7%   71,759
Pete Buttigieg     9   24.4%   68,141
Amy Klobuchar   6   19.8%   55,164
Elizabeth Warren 0   9.3%   25,899
Joe Biden           0   8.4%   23,475

It was widely expected that Bernie Sanders will win, but even more surprising was that Buttiegieg did so well on Sanders' turf and placed within 1% after him.
Amy Klobuchar's surge was also very impressive, getting twice as many votes as Warren and Biden. Not something any of the political analysts were predicting.

Which kind of shows that it's still early in the race, and a lot can still happen/change.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 12, 2020, 05:07:37 am
A voting guide for the religious:

"New Political Bible Adds (R) Or (D) After Each Character's Name"

https://babylonbee.com/news/new-political-bible-adds-r-or-d-after-each-characters-name?fbclid=IwAR12uTzT675xXoYnIhS3t7LLQqjZXPrexjKY7eQBQeeUk6WyLfFLPd0Weyo

Quote
"Obviously, right off the bat, God is followed by an R, while the serpent is followed by a D," the project's chief editor, Dr. Gary Leyland, told reporters. "Those ones are easy. Some of the other characters are a little tougher, as we have little written evidence of their modern American political ideology. But we can usually figure it out with context. For instance, if a character works a lot and is rich, they're a Republican. If a character is poor and wears sandals, definitely Democrat. Except for Jesus."

"The weird characters no one likes are probably libertarians."

Quote
Here are some of the characters whose political identity is revealed for the first time:
...
- Crying baby Jesus: Democrat
- Adolescent Jesus: Libertarian
- Mature, grown-up Jesus: Republican
- Judas Iscariot: Never Trumper but labeled as Democrat for accuracy's sake
...

 ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 07:24:59 am
Good one Slobo, but I much rather enjoyed the article in response to AOC bootstrapping interview.

AOC: 'You Cannot Literally Wrap Your Head Around Something, You Would Get Hurt' (https://babylonbee.com/news/aoc-you-cannot-literally-wrap-your-head-around-something-you-would-get-hurt)

But anyway, getting back to the primary, I'm rooting for Amy.  She is the only sane one right now and it was nice to see her do well.  (Mayor Pete is pretty radical and a horrible Mayor; he will get eaten alive.) 

But anyway, aside from this, the other big story is turnout was low at 2016 level.  It just does not look like the enthusiasm is there this year.  Meanwhile, on the Trump side of things, 50,000+ showed up to a NH rally of which 25% were registered Dems. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 12, 2020, 07:52:38 am
Isn’t the Democratic platform that billionaires should not exist?

This has sorta been uttered....By BS
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 08:59:34 am
Good one Slobo, but I much rather enjoyed the article in response to AOC bootstrapping interview.

AOC: 'You Cannot Literally Wrap Your Head Around Something, You Would Get Hurt' (https://babylonbee.com/news/aoc-you-cannot-literally-wrap-your-head-around-something-you-would-get-hurt)

But anyway, getting back to the primary, I'm rooting for Amy.  She is the only sane one right now and it was nice to see her do well.  (Mayor Pete is pretty radical and a horrible Mayor; he will get eaten alive.) 

But anyway, aside from this, the other big story is turnout was low at 2016 level.  It just does not look like the enthusiasm is there this year.  Meanwhile, on the Trump side of things, 50,000+ showed up to a NH rally of which 25% were registered Dems.

Amy has problems going forward.  She reportedly has a very small ground game in Nevada where a large one is needed as it’s a caucus.  It also seems she is low on funds which makes it harder to compete in SC.  Perhaps her showing last night will boost her fundraising. 

Don’t give up on CIA Pete. He’s “programmed” to win by the best spooks our taxes can buy😂.  At this point it’s any port that shelters the Dems from tropical storm Bernie. 

The biggest questions the Dems will need to answer if Amy, Pete or Mike make it to the end is how many die hard Bern voters stay home and refuse to vote, and how much the Hispanic and Black votes move towards Trump.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 08:59:59 am
It seems like Yang is now out. 

Yang Campaign Collapses After It's Revealed $1,000/Mo Giveaway Would Be Paid For With $1,000/Mo Tax Increase (https://babylonbee.com/news/yang-campaign-collapses-when-its-revealed-hed-pay-for-1000-a-month-with-a-1000-a-month-tax)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2020, 09:01:25 am
This has sorta been uttered....By BS


Hmm... why would anyone need more than, say, fifty million for the living of a very good life? I've had a very good one for way, way under any of that!

To suggest, perhaps, that we would otherwise not have people like the founders of Apple etc. unless they were able to amass huge sums of loot is a nonsense: these inventive people do what they do because it's what they do: they can't help themselves from inventing things.

I would be inclined to set a flat, top limit of personal/family worth beyond which the earnings would be obliged to be ploughed straight back into the company or group of companies creating the wealth. And if there are none, then make it a pure tax penalty. That way, you might actually see a redistribution of wealth, a trickle-down effect at last. As much as I admire some of the people with the ability to create fortunes, I do not feel sympathy with them when it comes to having more money than anybody but a madman needs.

It would also level the playing field and stop places like Ireland offering tax haven taxation levels to globals. It hasn't even worked in Ireland: that's why the political arm of the IRA has, a couple of days ago, won as much electoral support as the other two parties in the race. Why? Because they have taken a stance to speak for the rest of the Irish people who do not work in finance or tech, people for whom it has become impossible to find homes to buy or even to rent. What's not to like?

If that hurts some sensibilities, mostly misplaced theoretical ones held by folks who will never see that kind of dough any more than will I, then too friggin' bad.

Time for less theory and more reality in politics, and some muscle in the interests of the commonweal.

Rob
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 09:04:40 am
Maybe he is standing by some of the stuff 40 years ago. But now, there is much more stuff, on which he changes his stand overnight.

I have zero problem with someone who’s mind gets changed when better details become known. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 09:16:06 am

Hmm... why would anyone need more than, say, fifty million for the living of a very good life? I've had a very good one for way, way under any of that!

To suggest, perhaps, that we would otherwise not have people like the founders of Apple etc. unless they were able to amass huge sums of loot is a nonsense: these inventive people do what they do because it's what they do: they can't help themselves from inventing things.

I would be inclined to set a flat, top limit of personal/family worth beyond which the earnings would be obliged to be ploughed straight back into the company or group of companies creating the wealth. And if there are none, then make it a pure tax penalty. That way, you might actually see a redistribution of wealth, a trickle-down effect at last. As much as I admire some of the people with the ability to create fortunes, I do not feel sympathy with them when it comes to having more money than anybody but a madman needs.

It would also level the playing field and stop places like Ireland offering tax haven taxation levels to globals. It hasn't even worked in Ireland: that's why the political arm of the IRA has, a couple of days ago, won as much electoral support as the other two parties in the race. Why? Because they have taken a stance to speak for the rest of the Irish people who do not work in finance or tech, people for whom it has become impossible to find homes to buy or even to rent. What's not to like?

If that hurts some sensibilities, mostly misplaced theoretical ones held by folks who will never see that kind of dough any more than will I, then too friggin' bad.

Time for less theory and more reality in politics, and some muscle in the interests of the commonweal.

Rob

Rob, this statement shows a complete lack of understanding about wealth and business! 

The fact is that although Bezos is very wealthy, he has very little cash on hand and does not receive a salary, aka earnings, any where near the amount that he is worth.  I would be very surprise if he even had a $1M in the bank.  Nearly all of his wealth is tied up within Amazon, not in cash, but in the business itself.

The only way that he could retrieve that wealth would be to sell part of the business, or his stock. 

And this is the problem with Sander's tax proposal.  He wants to tax people based on wealth, not salary.  If Bezos is taxed 6% (Sander's top tier) on his total wealth today, that would be a tax bill of almost $8B.  In order to pay that, he would need to sell $8B worth of stock, but in doing so, this would crash the price of Amazon stock. 

This, combined with all of the other stocks suddenly being flooded on the market from other wealthy people selling to make the tax bill, would crash the stock market.

Then, we start getting into trying to figure out how much to tax people who's wealth is not tied up in public companies that dont have a stock price.  How do even determine the value of a private company?  (I dont know my company's value.  I know how much I made this year, and the past, but value is more then just that.  To put an exact dollar figure on it would be impossible.)  Sure, public is easy, you multiply the stock price by the total shares, but what about private where neither of those things exist? 

Bernie's whole plan is doomed to failure due to him not understanding the scale to which this would effect the economy and the sheer complexity of trying to figure out how wealthy a wealthy person actually is. 

Insofar as you saying people do what they do, how well is that working out for Venezuela?  I know a couple of photographers who left because the economic system did not let them do what they do.  How about Cuba?  I seem to remember all those people who do what they do leaving and building up Miami, Dominican Republic, etc. while Cuba fell into the abyss. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 09:24:00 am
Amy has problems going forward.  She reportedly has a very small ground game in Nevada where a large one is needed as it’s a caucus.  It also seems she is low on funds which makes it harder to compete in SC.  Perhaps her showing last night will boost her fundraising. 

Don’t give up on CIA Pete. He’s “programmed” to win by the best spooks our taxes can buy😂.  At this point it’s any port that shelters the Dems from tropical storm Bernie. 

The biggest questions the Dems will need to answer if Amy, Pete or Mike make it to the end is how many die hard Bern voters stay home and refuse to vote, and how much the Hispanic and Black votes move towards Trump.

Although I have hopes for Amy, I agree with you.  But she is the only Dem I would be sort of comfortable with. 

I still think Bernie will get the most votes but not enough to break 50%, which means he fails to get it on the first vote.  Then the super delegates go with someone else.  This causes total mayhem in Milwaukee, imploding the party, and making the Dems look even worse then they do now.  Trump then uses this to his advantage along with getting some Bernie Bros to vote for him to spite the party.  The rest just stay home. 

The only wrench in this would be Bloomberg.  Perhaps he does win it, however, as Slobo aluded to earlier, he will more then likely need to apologize for stop and frisk.  One of the main things he has to stand on is making NYC a safer place, but if he reneges on stop and frisk (the main reason for this), it will only make him look weak in the general election.  That, combined with him wanting to disarm every American (our last stop against tyranny), will kill his chances. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 12, 2020, 09:36:08 am
... these inventive people do what they do because it's what they do: they can't help themselves from inventing things....

And yet they come to the good, old, greedy US of A to help themselves. Elon Musk could have stayed in South Africa to pursue his inventions... how far would that get him? There is a reason Europe and the rest of the world do not have Apples, Googles, Microsofts, Teslas, etc. of the world. Those inventions require enormous amounts of money to take off. If you limit how much money one can make, you limit how much money would be in the ecosystem as well.

It is like mice determining just how much grass is enough for elephants.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 09:43:04 am
Rob, this statement shows a complete lack of understanding about wealth and business! 

The fact is that although Bezos is very wealthy, he has very little cash on hand and does not receive a salary, aka earnings, any where near the amount that he is worth.  I would be very surprise if he even had a $1M in the bank.  Nearly all of his wealth is tied up within Amazon, not in cash, but in the business itself.

The only way that he could retrieve that wealth would be to sell part of the business, or his stock. 

And this is the problem with Sander's tax proposal.  He wants to tax people based on wealth, not salary.  If Bezos is taxed 6% (Sander's top tier) on his total wealth today, that would be a tax bill of almost $8B.  In order to pay that, he would need to sell $8B worth of stock, but in doing so, this would crash the price of Amazon stock. 

This, combined with all of the other stocks suddenly being flooded on the market from other wealthy people selling to make the tax bill, would crash the stock market.

Then, we start getting into trying to figure out how much to tax people who's wealth is not tied up in public companies that dont have a stock price.  How do even determine the value of a private company?  (I dont know my company's value.  I know how much I made this year, and the past, but value is more then just that.  To put an exact dollar figure on it would be impossible.)  Sure, public is easy, you multiply the stock price by the total shares, but what about private where neither of those things exist? 

Bernie's whole plan is doomed to failure due to him not understanding the scale to which this would effect the economy and the sheer complexity of trying to figure out how wealthy a wealthy person actually is. 

Insofar as you saying people do what they do, how well is that working out for Venezuela?  I know a couple of photographers who left because the economic system did not let them do what they do.  How about Cuba?  I seem to remember all those people who do what they do leaving and building up Miami, Dominican Republic, etc. while Cuba fell into the abyss. 
First, taking someone else's money to give to someone else is stealing.  Sure, since government does it, we can make believe it's righteous, but it isn;t.  The entire Soviet Union was based on this and look what they had for 70 years.  Gulags to enforce it and a lot worse.  That's what it leads too.  Oh, did I mention Venezuela, Cuba, etc.?

Of course, we have to have some taxes to run the government.  But taxing wealth is a poor way to accomplish it.  First off, wealth that is in the form of stock, farms, companies, real estate,  and other investments is the very capital savings needed to stir business investment and help an economy including jobs.  You don't want to tax it while it's capital.  In any case, the owner of the capital isn't using it for personal expenditures at that point.  It's busy creating wealth for everyone in the economy.   The time to tax would be when he takes it in cash and/or spends it personally.  That's what we do now when we tax at the time the stock or capital is sold.  If there's a problem with the 15% capital gains tax, then adjust it there.  But not while it's doing its work as capital. 

I remember a few decades ago they were going to "punish" the rich by imposing high taxes on yachts and other large boats.  The tax went into affect and collapsed the American boating manufacturing industry because no one would order new boats.  Thousands of workers were laid off as businesses closed their doors.  They had to do a quick turn-around and eliminate the law.  Taxes on all wealth would do the same only worse as it would affect every industry.  Only a Marxist who honeymooned in the Soviet Union would recommend something like that. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 09:45:50 am


Then, we start getting into trying to figure out how much to tax people who's wealth is not tied up in public companies that dont have a stock price.  How do even determine the value of a private company?  (I dont know my company's value.  I know how much I made this year, and the past, but value is more then just that.  To put an exact dollar figure on it would be impossible.)  Sure, public is easy, you multiply the stock price by the total shares, but what about private where neither of those things exist? 



Thats the problem for businesess like ours, they have very little real value.  Unless you have some business real estate, they true value of oyur business is YOU.  When you retire, you can sell equipment and that has some value.  You can try to sell a client list but thats not worth much because the clients are really buying YOU.  Not much is left to add a real value to the business.

There is nothing wrong with being a lone wolf, and I actually prefer it to all the other forms my lifetime career has taken.  You just need to understand going that there is really nothing of real value in your business other than yourself.  I'm rather enjoying my end of career trajectory.  I work with my wife, we are making good bank and we work maybe 100 days a year.  We have pretty much zero overhead and our billing rate has never been higher.  I can't put  a dollar value on that :)  I don't think Bernie could either :)  I'm having a ball. Working on my toy car, in the process of getting my part 107 remote pilot cert and playing with drones.  Oh yea, shooting for some select clients. too.

Life is good.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 09:54:21 am
First, taking someone else's money to give to someone else is stealing.  Sure, since government does it, we can make believe it's righteous, but it isn;t.  The entire Soviet Union was based on this and look what they had for 70 years.  Gulags to enforce it and a lot worse.  That's what it leads too.  Oh, did I mention Venezuela, Cuba, etc.?



I agree on this, and although I tend to lean towards the logical in these arguments, we really need to start talking about this morally. 

What Bernie is suggesting is immoral.  It goes directly against thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods.  Many people incorrectly define covet as just jealousy or being envious, but it is much more then that. 

To covet thy neighbor's goods means you are so envious that you feel you should have a right to the exact goods of your neighbor for no other reason then for your sense of envy.  This is what Bernie is promoting, and it is evil. 

(FYI, I am not a religious person, but an atheist.  However, I still see the commandments as a base for morality.) 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 09:56:56 am
You do beautiful work Craig. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 10:05:43 am
Thats the problem for businesess like ours, they have very little real value.  Unless you have some business real estate, they true value of oyur business is YOU.  When you retire, you can sell equipment and that has some value.  You can try to sell a client list but thats not worth much because the clients are really buying YOU.  Not much is left to add a real value to the business.

There is nothing wrong with being a lone wolf, and I actually prefer it to all the other forms my lifetime career has taken.  You just need to understand going that there is really nothing of real value in your business other than yourself.  I'm rather enjoying my end of career trajectory.  I work with my wife, we are making good bank and we work maybe 100 days a year.  We have pretty much zero overhead and our billing rate has never been higher.  I can't put  a dollar value on that :)  I don't think Bernie could either :)  I'm having a ball. Working on my toy car, in the process of getting my part 107 remote pilot cert and playing with drones.  Oh yea, shooting for some select clients. too.

Life is good.


True, but here is the thing, this is the case with all business, even real estate. 

Lets say you own a bunch of buildings that you rent out.  Well, how much are those building worth?  Some would say just add up the sale price of those building, but what is the sale's price?  If you bought them 20 years ago, they are certainly worth more now then when you bought them, especially if you did renovations.  So, you cant go by the numbers you bought them at. 

What about adding on inflation and the cost of the renovations?  Well, that does not work, since many renovations increase the value of a building by more then what is invested?  Not to mention, you need to take into account how the neighborhood has changed too. 

What about looking at comps and recent sales of buildings in the area?  Well, that does not really take into account any unique aspects of your buildings, so ...

See the point, even with real estate, it become impossible to put an exact value on the value of the business.  Take for instance my house, which I bought for $158K and then put $50K in work into it.  Is it now only worth $208K?  But that 50K was really mainly supplies since I did all the carpentry, flooring and masonry myself, so how much do I add on for my time?  Well houses in my neighborhood sell for around $260K right now, so maybe $260K?  But my kitchen is all new and I know for a fact my house is one of the few that had all the knob and tube replaced with modern wiring, so is it more then $260K? 

And this is the problem.  The only way I could figure out how much my house is worth is by selling it, but I am not interested in doing so right now.  Same thing with all private businesses. 

Putting an exact dollar figure on a person's wealth in order to tax it becomes a conundrum, and, as a person's wealth increases, it becomes an impossibility. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 10:06:15 am
I agree on this, and although I tend to lean towards the logical in these arguments, we really need to start talking about this morally. 

What Bernie is suggesting is immoral.  It goes directly against thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods.  Many people incorrectly define covet as just jealousy or being envious, but it is much more then that. 

To covet thy neighbor's goods means you are so envious that you feel you should have a right to the exact goods of your neighbor for no other reason then for your sense of envy.  This is what Bernie is promoting, and it is evil. 

(FYI, I am not a religious person, but an atheist.  However, I still see the commandments as a base for morality.) 
The prohibition against covetousness leads to the other commandment:  Thous shall not steal.  One follows the other.  One justifies the other.  It also leads to murder, which is justified governmentally when citizens fail to follow the socialist rules.  Government becomes God with power over people including life and death.  It decides on personal property.  It decides on which medical procedures they;ll pay for and what coverage you have or don;t have. It decides just how much freedom you have or don;t have.  Why anyone would want an old Socialist like Sanders to decide how they should run their life boggles my mind.  Yet, half the Democratic party see socialism as something good.  Well, that comes from covetnousness where we started this conversation. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 10:19:42 am
True, but here is the thing, this is the case with all business, even real estate. 

Lets say you own a bunch of buildings that you rent out.  Well, how much are those building worth?  Some would say just add up the sale price of those building, but what is the sale's price?  If you bought them 20 years ago, they are certainly worth more now then when you bought them, especially if you did renovations.  So, you cant go by the numbers you bought them at. 

What about adding on inflation and the cost of the renovations?  Well, that does not work, since many renovations increase the value of a building by more then what is invested?  Not to mention, you need to take into account how the neighborhood has changed too. 

What about looking at comps and recent sales of buildings in the area?  Well, that does not really take into account any unique aspects of your buildings, so ...

See the point, even with real estate, it become impossible to put an exact value on the value of the business.  Take for instance my house, which I bought for $158K and then put $50K in work into it.  Is it now only worth $208K?  But that 50K was really mainly supplies since I did all the carpentry, flooring and masonry myself, so how much do I add on for my time?  Well houses in my neighborhood sell for around $260K right now, so maybe $260K?  But my kitchen is all new and I know for a fact my house is one of the few that had all the knob and tube replaced with modern wiring, so is it more then $260K? 

And this is the problem.  The only way I could figure out how much my house is worth is by selling it, but I am not interested in doing so right now.  Same thing with all private businesses. 

Put an exact dollar figure on a person's wealth in order to tax it become a conundrum, and, as a person's wealth increases, it becomes an impossibility. 
Of course the main problem is how do you pay taxes on wealth that's tied up in the property?  Let's use your real estate exdample.  So you own a hotel or a golf course that's worth $10 million.  Leave aside how that's determined right now.   But it's not in cash.  So you have to pay a wealth tax of let's say 2% a year. That's $200,000.  Where do you get it from.  It's not under your pillow.  It's tied up in the property.  So now you actually have to sell off part of it to raise the cash for taxes.  So you have a fire sale and the value of the property is lost.  Same if you own a farm.  Everything is tied up in the land, and tractors, and barns, and milking machines.  So you have to sell your farm to get cash to pay the taxes?  That's nuts.  That's why the tax law is currently written, for good reason, to pay taxes when the property is sold.  That's the only real time cash is available to pay the taxes.  It's also the time that the capital is no longer needed as an investment.  It's also the time that the owner get the real wealth in a form he can spend it on himself and use it personally.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 10:30:29 am
True, but here is the thing, this is the case with all business, even real estate. 

Lets say you own a bunch of buildings that you rent out.  Well, how much are those building worth?  Some would say just add up the sale price of those building, but what is the sale's price?  If you bought them 20 years ago, they are certainly worth more now then when you bought them, especially if you did renovations.  So, you cant go by the numbers you bought them at. 

What about adding on inflation and the cost of the renovations?  Well, that does not work, since many renovations increase the value of a building by more then what is invested?  Not to mention, you need to take into account how the neighborhood has changed too. 

What about looking at comps and recent sales of buildings in the area?  Well, that does not really take into account any unique aspects of your buildings, so ...

See the point, even with real estate, it become impossible to put an exact value on the value of the business.  Take for instance my house, which I bought for $158K and then put $50K in work into it.  Is it now only worth $208K?  But that 50K was really mainly supplies since I did all the carpentry, flooring and masonry myself, so how much do I add on for my time?  Well houses in my neighborhood sell for around $260K right now, so maybe $260K?  But my kitchen is all new and I know for a fact my house is one of the few that had all the knob and tube replaced with modern wiring, so is it more then $260K? 

And this is the problem.  The only way I could figure out how much my house is worth is by selling it, but I am not interested in doing so right now.  Same thing with all private businesses. 

Putting an exact dollar figure on a person's wealth in order to tax it becomes a conundrum, and, as a person's wealth increases, it becomes an impossibility.

In the case of real estate, someone is going to appraise it. and they are goingt o consider condition, upgrades and current market value of similar properties.  Thats the number.  Most banks are going to consider that number as a basis for what the value of a loan might be for that property.  It  matters not a whit if you have put in far more in renovations than the value of the property at the time its appraised.  If you want to sell it the true value is what someone is willing to pay at that instant. If the value it greater than the bank value ( if a loan is required) the purchaser could pony up more money.  The question is...would they?

I can imagine thats what would happen in a Bernie world.  Someone would appraise the business and decide what the tax would be.  Just like your home is appriaised for taxes. 

Trust me, if this were come to pass they would create a mechanism to value your wealth.  I cant image there will be a robust way to challenge the assessment :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 10:55:25 am
The problem is even smart people don;t understand the rules of how an economy works.  We don't teach our kids these things in school.  In fact, we have socialists who teach redistribution.  So then people, nice people, vote in guys like Maduro and Chavez in Venezuela.  Than 15 years later, when the economy collapses, people are wandering around looking for a slice of bread to feed their families and wondering what went wrong. Guys like Sanders and Warren know better.  Their selfishness and hunger for power makes them support economic policies that would destroy the country.  It's disgraceful. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 12, 2020, 11:00:48 am
The problem is even smart people don;t understand the rules of how an economy works.  We don't teach our kids these things in school.  In fact, we have socialists who teach redistribution.  So then people, nice people, vote in guys like Maduro and Chavez in Venezuela.  Than 15 years later, when the economy collapses, people are wandering around looking for a slice of bread to feed their families and wondering what went wrong. Guys like Sanders and Warren know better.  Their selfishness and hunger for power makes them support economic policies that would destroy the country.  It's disgraceful.

I know that things are heading down-hill in the USA, but to compare the political system in the USA with that of Venezuela looks like a bit of a stretch to me ...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 12, 2020, 11:07:57 am
Just what do you include in "down hill,," Bart? Employment is booming, wages are rising, the stock market is rising. Please explain what you mean by "down hill." It sounds as if your news sources may be out of touch.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 11:09:57 am
I know that things are heading down-hill in the USA, but to compare the political system in the USA with that of Venezuela looks like a bit of a stretch to me ...
We're getting there.  We had a trillion dollars in deficit spending last year.  Trump just recommended a budget for next year continuing with another trillion dollar deficit.  That's 20% more than the entire GDP of your country The Netherlands.  Think about it.  That trillion dollars could buy the entire productivity of your country, pay all salaries and buy all your products including windmills and solar panels.  :)  And all we did is to print some more dollars.  And that's from Trump.  Can you imagine if Sanders won?   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 12, 2020, 11:16:42 am
Just what do you include in "down hill,," Bart? Employment is booming, wages are rising, the stock market is rising. Please explain what you mean by "down hill." It sounds as if your news sources may be out of touch.

The inability of your Senate to uphold it's oath to protect the constitution, for example. But that's a topic for another thread. We're supposed to mock the Democrats here, if I'm not misunderstanding the OP's intentions?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 12, 2020, 11:34:18 am
Actually, the Senate did its job perfectly and upheld its oath to protect the Constitution. The House screwed up from square one and debased the Constitution. I have a feeling Nancy’s going to pay a high price for that.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 12, 2020, 11:48:52 am
First, taking someone else's money to give to someone else is stealing.  Sure, since government does it, we can make believe it's righteous, but it isn;t.  The entire Soviet Union was based on this and look what they had for 70 years.  Gulags to enforce it and a lot worse.  That's what it leads too.  Oh, did I mention Venezuela, Cuba, etc.?

I completely disagree (& i thought you were against hyperboles?- please don't start about gulags !)

My take is that billonaires have too much money, ergo too much undemocratic controlled power in one hand.
Also when the election system is partly based on the amount of money a candidate can bring they directly can influence the democratic part of the political system.

In todays economic system it is easy for them to get even richer without taking great risk while pretending to be philantropists. (for instance  Bill Gates)
Some of them acknowledge this situation and ask for a tax system in which they pay more.


...There is a reason Europe and the rest of the world do not have Apples, Googles, Microsofts, Teslas, etc. of the world. Those inventions require enormous amounts of money to take off. If you limit how much money one can make, you limit how much money would be in the ecosystem as well.
...
The amount of money to take off is not dependent on the Billionaires...
It is for this the stock exchange was developed.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 12:05:25 pm

My take is that billonaires have too much money, ergo too much undemocratic controlled power in one hand.
Also when the election system is partly based on the amount of money a candidate can bring they directly can influence the democratic part of the political system.

In todays economic system it is easy for them to get even richer without taking great risk while pretending to be philantropists. (for instance  Bill Gates)
Some of them acknowledge this situation and ask for a tax system in which they pay more.

The amount of money to take off is not dependent on the Billionaires...
It is for this the stock exchange was developed.

Wow, I never truly realized how evil Obama was then.  He outspent McCain 3 to 1 and Romney 2 to 1. 

I guess what you are saying is that the people's choice those years should not have been Obama. 

But anyway, getting back to billionares having too much power, how about Tom Steyer and Bloomberg?  If they win, will you still endorse them, or go third party?  How about Elon Musk?  How does he effect politics?  How about Warren Buffet? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 12:10:50 pm
You do beautiful work Craig.

Thanks.  So you were the hit from New Jersey :)

(I really need to update that Web Site...)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 12, 2020, 12:20:52 pm
Of course the main problem is how do you pay taxes on wealth that's tied up in the property?  Let's use your real estate exdample.  So you own a hotel or a golf course that's worth $10 million.  Leave aside how that's determined right now.   But it's not in cash.  So you have to pay a wealth tax of let's say 2% a year. That's $200,000.  Where do you get it from.  It's not under your pillow.  It's tied up in the property.  So now you actually have to sell off part of it to raise the cash for taxes.  So you have a fire sale and the value of the property is lost.  Same if you own a farm.  Everything is tied up in the land, and tractors, and barns, and milking machines.  So you have to sell your farm to get cash to pay the taxes?  That's nuts.  That's why the tax law is currently written, for good reason, to pay taxes when the property is sold.  That's the only real time cash is available to pay the taxes.  It's also the time that the capital is no longer needed as an investment.  It's also the time that the owner get the real wealth in a form he can spend it on himself and use it personally.
You would pay taxes on the hotel with income from room fees, and on the golf course with income from greens fees and cart rentals. You would pay taxes on the dairy farm with income from the sale of milk. They are an expense you budget for.
Like most people I pay annual property taxes to my local government without having to sell my house. I'm guessing you do too. Would you prefer to eliminate property taxes and replace them with income taxes?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 12:24:07 pm
You pay taxes on the golf course with income from greens fees and cart rentals. You pay taxes on the farm with income from the sale of milk.
I pay annual property taxes to my local government without having to sell my house.

So much for the raises for the greenskeeper and the farm hand...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 12, 2020, 12:27:16 pm
Wow, I never truly realized how evil Obama was then.  He outspent McCain 3 to 1 and Romney 2 to 1. 

I guess what you are saying is that the people's choice those years should not have been Obama. 

But anyway, getting back to billionares having too much power, how about Tom Steyer and Bloomberg?  If they win, will you still endorse them, or go third party?  How about Elon Musk?  How does he effect politics?  How about Warren Buffet?
This is apart from any candidate- it has to do with the way the electionsystem is based at the moment in the US.
It means that without enough money you don't have a chance...
It also means that influence in the political system can be bought.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 12:30:27 pm
This is apart from any candidate- it has to do with the way the electionsystem is based at the moment in the US.
It means that without enough money you don't have a chance...

This has always been the case, with the possible exception of George Washington. 

Today though, modern technology has made it possible for the average person to donate, directly, without difficulty.  I would argue that the victory of Trump, who was out spent in the primary and general, and Bernie in the lead without any major donators, disproves your premise. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 12, 2020, 12:39:50 pm
This has always been the case, with the possible exception of George Washington. 

Today though, modern technology has made it possible for the average person to donate, directly, without difficulty.  I would argue that the victory of Trump, who was out spent in the primary and general, and Bernie in the lead without any major donators, disproves your premise.
I did not say money rules all... fortunately not.
I do not have enough knowledge of the funding of those two you mentioned. You may be right. I suppose it is possible for every person to see how they are funded?
Then please show me some link...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 12:40:22 pm
You pay taxes on the golf course with income from greens fees and cart rentals. You pay taxes on the dairy farm with income from the sale of milk.
Like most people I pay annual property taxes to my local government without having to sell my house. I'm guessing you do too.

LOL.  What is your property tax rate?  Mine is about a percent on an amount that is about 60% of current market value. 

But anyway, to see how bad this idea is, just look towards France.  They implemented this over 10 years in the early 2000s.  First, the amount that they spent in auditing wealthy people to determine how to tax them in just one of the those years was more then they collected from the tax over the entire period.  This is the main reason they got rid of the tax. 

But second, it decimated a lot of asset rich but cash poor businesses, such as wineries.  Wineries in France are so old and have been passed down through generations, that the land is owned outright; there are no mortgages.  This makes many who own wineries asset rich.  However, the amount of profit they make off of these farms is still not that much.  With the exception of a few, wine only sells for so much.  So, when they were hit with this tax, they were forced to sell off parts of their winery to pay the tax.  It did not end well for the small family winery. 

If a Wealth Tax is Such a Good Idea, Why Did Europe Kill Theirs? (https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/26/698057356/if-a-wealth-tax-is-such-a-good-idea-why-did-europe-kill-theirs)

"... it was expensive to administer, it was hard on people with lots of assets but little cash, it distorted saving and investment decisions, it pushed the rich and their money out of the taxing countries—and, perhaps worst of all, it didn't raise much revenue."
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 12, 2020, 12:42:10 pm
I did not say money rules all... fortunately not.
I do not have enough knowledge of the funding of those two you mentioned. You may be right. I suppose it is possible for every person to see how they are funded?
Then please show me some link...

One such link:

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/contributors?id=N00000528
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 12:44:28 pm
This is apart from any candidate- it has to do with the way the electionsystem is based at the moment in the US.
It means that without enough money you don't have a chance...

How then would you expect candidates to get their words out to the people without money? 



Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 12:47:12 pm
I did not say money rules all... fortunately not.
I do not have enough knowledge of the funding of those two you mentioned. You may be right. I suppose it is possible for every person to see how they are funded?
Then please show me some link...

Trump spent about half of what Clinton did on his way to the presidency (https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/trump-spent-about-half-of-what-clinton-did-on-his-way-to-the-presidency.html)

Says Donald Trump "spent the least amount of money of any of the competitive primary contenders that he beat so badly." (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/jul/01/michael-caputo/trump-was-outspent-his-closest-primary-opponents/)  Rated as mostly true. 


Bernie’s new approach to raising cash: ‘Grassroots fundraisers’ (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/22/bernie-sanders-money-1337897)  Of course, with the plans Bernie is putting forth, it would be damn near impossible to find any wealthy person who would part with his money to support Bernie. 

Like I said before, money has always been a part of politics, especially the presidential election, with the exception of Washington (the only unanimously electorally elected President). 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2020, 01:23:58 pm
Thats the problem for businesess like ours, they have very little real value.  Unless you have some business real estate, they true value of oyur business is YOU.  When you retire, you can sell equipment and that has some value.  You can try to sell a client list but thats not worth much because the clients are really buying YOU.  Not much is left to add a real value to the business.

There is nothing wrong with being a lone wolf, and I actually prefer it to all the other forms my lifetime career has taken.  You just need to understand going that there is really nothing of real value in your business other than yourself.  I'm rather enjoying my end of career trajectory.  I work with my wife, we are making good bank and we work maybe 100 days a year.  We have pretty much zero overhead and our billing rate has never been higher.  I can't put  a dollar value on that :)  I don't think Bernie could either :)  I'm having a ball. Working on my toy car, in the process of getting my part 107 remote pilot cert and playing with drones.  Oh yea, shooting for some select clients. too.

Life is good.


On the money: retire, and all you can sell are some tripods and old cameras. As I know and always knew. It was the ride of a lifetime, and that was the buzz. It got me to places I could never have afforded to visit at a standard that makes me blush sometimes. I was not really money-driven because if I had been, there were several other doors open to me. I ignored 'em.

Rob
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2020, 01:40:11 pm
Rob, this statement shows a complete lack of understanding about wealth and business! 

The fact is that although Bezos is very wealthy, he has very little cash on hand and does not receive a salary, aka earnings, any where near the amount that he is worth.  I would be very surprise if he even had a $1M in the bank.  Nearly all of his wealth is tied up within Amazon, not in cash, but in the business itself.

The only way that he could retrieve that wealth would be to sell part of the business, or his stock. 

And this is the problem with Sander's tax proposal.  He wants to tax people based on wealth, not salary.  If Bezos is taxed 6% (Sander's top tier) on his total wealth today, that would be a tax bill of almost $8B.  In order to pay that, he would need to sell $8B worth of stock, but in doing so, this would crash the price of Amazon stock. 

This, combined with all of the other stocks suddenly being flooded on the market from other wealthy people selling to make the tax bill, would crash the stock market.

Then, we start getting into trying to figure out how much to tax people who's wealth is not tied up in public companies that dont have a stock price.  How do even determine the value of a private company?  (I dont know my company's value.  I know how much I made this year, and the past, but value is more then just that.  To put an exact dollar figure on it would be impossible.)  Sure, public is easy, you multiply the stock price by the total shares, but what about private where neither of those things exist? 

Bernie's whole plan is doomed to failure due to him not understanding the scale to which this would effect the economy and the sheer complexity of trying to figure out how wealthy a wealthy person actually is. 

Insofar as you saying people do what they do, how well is that working out for Venezuela?  I know a couple of photographers who left because the economic system did not let them do what they do.  How about Cuba?  I seem to remember all those people who do what they do leaving and building up Miami, Dominican Republic, etc. while Cuba fell into the abyss.


How arrogant of you, and how reflexively driven. Read my post properly: folks like Bezos are doing exactly what I suggested: reinvesting. Is your foot painful?

And exactly right: selling off his stock breaks my suggested way forward, and so he'd be inclined to keep it going. That said, he could still get himself that fifty million in cash (and be within my limit) any time he wanted to as long as he didn't do it in a way to panic the market.

If you use an accountant to do your books every year (I did, right from the first year) he will give you a value for your little business each time, not just tell you how much tax you have to pay or how much you have lost, or otherwise advise you on the benefit of doing something else.

People from Cuba and Venezuela have nothing to do with it; they either flee countries ruled by despots or political gangsters. You should not try to confuse the plight of these people with a fair tax regime in developed countries. Taxing the crazy rich is not gangsterism; handing contracts out as kickbacks and for kickbacks is. You see the difference?

Rob
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 12, 2020, 01:51:30 pm
The amount of money to take off is not dependent on the Billionaires...
It is for this the stock exchange was developed.

All large technology companies (Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc) started with seed money from family members, angel investors and venture capitalists. Only after they became very large (and many collapsed before they could become that large), they went public and got listed on the stock exchange.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2020, 01:55:33 pm
And yet they come to the good, old, greedy US of A to help themselves. Elon Musk could have stayed in South Africa to pursue his inventions... how far would that get him? There is a reason Europe and the rest of the world do not have Apples, Googles, Microsofts, Teslas, etc. of the world. Those inventions require enormous amounts of money to take off. If you limit how much money one can make, you limit how much money would be in the ecosystem as well.

It is like mice determining just how much grass is enough for elephants.

Investment capital is available even to little ladies in Africa who want to start a seamstress business; charities ask you to help almost every day - benign investment and banking, they call it, and when the person you helped has got off the ground, you can either recoup your loan or reinvest it in similar, benign fashion where you really do help some soul eat more than locusts. Not all philanthropic action is self-centred egotripping and neither is it motivated by greed.

Neither of us knows how much money these people have in their personal accounts; I still believe they don't need more than fifty million. I am glad that they find investment backing in the States; that capital is always looking to make more, and it does it by being invested in ventures, by no means all of which turn out successfully. That is exactly a part of what I am advocating: reinvestment. Reread my original post and don't come to it blind or wearing the traditional reactive spectacles. Because I speak against too much money going to waste whilst others, mostly for no fault of their own, are starving does not make me a red; rather do I think it makes me someone who realises that greed is ultimately self-defeating and destructive.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 02:02:46 pm
Thanks.  So you were the hit from New Jersey :)

(I really need to update that Web Site...)

I forgot about that.  I guess I'm still impressed.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 02:03:13 pm

How arrogant of you, and how reflexively driven. Read my post properly: folks like Bezos are doing exactly what I suggested: reinvesting. Is your foot painful?

And exactly right: selling off his stock breaks my suggested way forward, and so he'd be inclined to keep it going. That said, he could still get himself that fifty million in cash (and be within my limit) any time he wanted to as long as he didn't do it in a way to panic the market.

If you use an accountant to do your books every year (I did, right from the first year) he will give you a value for your little business each time, not just tell you how much tax you have to pay or how much you have lost, or otherwise advise you on the benefit of doing something else.

People from Cuba and Venezuela have nothing to do with it; they either flee countries ruled by despots or political gangsters. You should not try to confuse the plight of these people with a fair tax regime in developed countries. Taxing the crazy rich is not gangsterism; handing contracts out as kickbacks and for kickbacks is. You see the difference?

Rob

Well maybe I mis-read you, but you stated, "I would be inclined to set a flat, top limit of personal/family worth ..." 

When you write worth, do you mean total wealth, or amount earned through salary per year?  I define worth as the former, which if you set a limit on becomes a detriment to the economy.  Taxing only earnings, and not wealth, is not part of the Democrat platform right now, which I why I jumped right to wealth. 

Insofar as taxing the rich at higher and higher rates opens the door for more and more kickbacks.  You really think that making the tax system more complicated wont bring more cronyism and will make things fairer?  That's not how things work out. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2020, 02:05:29 pm
In the case of real estate, someone is going to appraise it. and they are goingt o consider condition, upgrades and current market value of similar properties.  Thats the number.  Most banks are going to consider that number as a basis for what the value of a loan might be for that property.  It  matters not a whit if you have put in far more in renovations than the value of the property at the time its appraised.  If you want to sell it the true value is what someone is willing to pay at that instant. If the value it greater than the bank value ( if a loan is required) the purchaser could pony up more money.  The question is...would they?

I can imagine thats what would happen in a Bernie world.  Someone would appraise the business and decide what the tax would be.  Just like your home is appriaised for taxes. 

Trust me, if this were come to pass they would create a mechanism to value your wealth.  I cant image there will be a robust way to challenge the assessment :)


You are perfectly correct regarding house values. Any estate agent or property surveyor will give you their professional suggestion of a value. It's the reason why you are always advised to move to a better neighbourhood than to invest over the top in your current one: you are chucking your money away because it is never going to be recognized in a subsequent sale. You may get your pad moving more rapidly than another beside you, but only within the same money waveband. And as a complication - certainly in Britain - school catchment areas are worth more than solid gold plumbing.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 12, 2020, 02:24:08 pm
How then would you expect candidates to get their words out to the people without money?

For one you could give all parties the same advertising exposure, funded by the state (tax).
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 02:41:53 pm
For one you could give all parties the same advertising exposure, funded by the state (tax).

We currently have that option.  Not many choose to use it. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 02:43:36 pm
Man o man, it just keeps on getting worse. 

So I was just now working on pictures and listening to a podcast on last night election results.  Dems are just not enthused, especially about Bernie.  In 2016, Bernie got 60% of the vote in NH; last night he only got 30%.  On top of that, exit polling data is showing all of Bernie's support came from people who general don't vote in large numbers.  Then, the turn out was not even close to 2008 turn out and only just above 2016, with most of the additional turn out coming from older people who are not for Bernie. 

Mayor Pete had a good night ... until you look at exist polling.  Most of his support came from environmentalists and other like minded souls, which sounds good until you look at Gallop polling on the most important election topic and see green issues at the bottom of the list. 

Amy Klobuchar is the only one who consistently won in groups who, on a national level, vote in large numbers consistently, namely women, seniors, church goers, etc. 

Klobuchar seems to be the only hope, but Biden is still clogging up the lane and sucking oxygen away from the moderate field keeping her from really shining. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2020, 02:43:50 pm
Well maybe I mis-read you, but you stated, "I would be inclined to set a flat, top limit of personal/family worth ..." 

When you write worth, do you mean total wealth, or amount earned through salary per year?  I define worth as the former, which if you set a limit on becomes a detriment to the economy.  Taxing only earnings, and not wealth, is not part of the Democrat platform right now, which I why I jumped right to wealth. 

Insofar as taxing the rich at higher and higher rates opens the door for more and more kickbacks.  You really think that making the tax system more complicated wont bring more cronyism and will make things fairer?  That's not how things work out.


The answer to your question is the first: total wealth that is not invested in some part of your own or other businesses. Earn whatever you can, but make sure you reinvest. As they say, money lying in the bank is a stinking fish. Having fifty million squids in you bank is stink quite enough, I'd have thought.

Again, you are writing in terms of taxing the rich more and more. That is not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting they be forced to reinvest or, if they refuse, then tax the knickers off 'em. They obviously have no need for it and so yeah, spread it around to help other businesses get going.

It has been my belief that only being self-employed for at least a year will be enough to teach one that the world owes nobody a living. Knowing that, and understanding how too low a starting capital can hinder your growth (see Slobodan's point about Musk and my reply to that), it comes as no surprise that the looney left thinks that business owners have it easy: nobody does, and it's always a battle to stay put, never mind grow. That's one of the prime reasons for "encouraging" the über rich to keep their pennies working either in their own companies or in others. I don't think of bank accounts as being your money working. More, it pays bankers a pile and stays out of the hands of those wanting business loans but refused them for being too modest. Frankly, I think it is part and parcel of the death of the local shop: you don't want to do everything online - I would do nothing online if a real shop was still around. It's some of those amazing inventions and innovations of the globals that are actually killing us off as little people in business. Thinking of them as some kind of benefactor is back to turkeys and X'mas. It won't do simply to suggest that the small guy get smart; if he can keep himself and family living reasonably well, good enough. Not everyone is driven to obsessive lengths over something, or even has both the acumen and luck to make it thrive. But hey, one little family tending their little store is better, in my eyes, than one more blue-collar job hoping to outlast the march of the robots in the factory.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2020, 03:05:11 pm
For one you could give all parties the same advertising exposure, funded by the state (tax).


And it should be the only funding permitted. Buying votes happened over Brexit too; more was spent by some than permitted, but nothing effective was done about it that I can recall right now, so they got their way by breaking the law. And these the people who seek to rule us.

When spending is without limits, morality and right wither on the vine. And not just in elections. Britain is now going to go ahead and complete a rail connection (that has already gone way, way over the original budget - we are talking two hundred billion, are we not?) in an attempt to please those northern voters who voted Tory for once in their lives. That's not for the good of the country, that's to be seen to be doing something in return for the vote. Despite alternative demands to improve local infrastructure up there in the northern badlands, which would go nationally unseen, the grand gesture wins.

I heard that the French faced a similar political quandary regarding a fast connection between Paris and Lyon, the intent being to regenerate areas of France outwith the capital. I believe that rather than regenerate anything, it made Paris even more the focal point for jobs because folks could now get there!
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 12, 2020, 03:54:44 pm
Very good interview/commentary on democratic nominees by Rick Newman. The title mentions Elizabeth Warren, but the discussion covers much more than just her.
Rick is really good.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-elizabeth-warren-is-cratering-180401277.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 12, 2020, 04:04:44 pm

Earn whatever you can, but make sure you reinvest. As they say, money lying in the bank is a stinking fish. Having fifty million squids in you bank is stink quite enough, I'd have thought.



However only the people with the stinking fish get to say when the stink is too much to bear...After all, it is their stinking fish.


Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 04:37:01 pm
You would pay taxes on the hotel with income from room fees, and on the golf course with income from greens fees and cart rentals. You would pay taxes on the dairy farm with income from the sale of milk. They are an expense you budget for.
Like most people I pay annual property taxes to my local government without having to sell my house. I'm guessing you do too. Would you prefer to eliminate property taxes and replace them with income taxes?
What you're suggesting is using income to pay income taxes.  That's what we do now.  If the company makes more money, they pay more taxes.  If they have a bad year, they pay less.  To tie it to the value of the company will make it impossible to pay the taxes in a bad year and maybe bankrupt it. It will also create an unfair playing field among competitors since company expenses will be different to the different company in an industry because of different tax requirements based on the wealth of the company.  For both of the problems mentioned, and lots others, a tax on wealth is a terrible way of government funding.  That's why it isn't done.   Just raise rates on income if the government needs more money.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 04:40:37 pm
Bernies promises...

In Appreciation For Primary Win, Bernie Promises To Make New Hampshire The Site Of His Very First Re-Education Camp


https://babylonbee.com/news/in-appreciation-for-primary-win-bernie-promises-to-make-new-hampshire-the-site-of-his-very-first-re-education-camp (https://babylonbee.com/news/in-appreciation-for-primary-win-bernie-promises-to-make-new-hampshire-the-site-of-his-very-first-re-education-camp)

Yes, its Satire
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 12, 2020, 04:43:18 pm
What you're suggesting is using income to pay income taxes.  That's what we do now.  If the company makes more money, they pay more taxes.  If they have a bad year, they pay less.  To tie it to the value of the company will make it impossible to pay the taxes in a bad year and maybe bankrupt it. It will also create an unfair playing field among competitors since company expenses will be different to the different company in an industry because of different tax requirements based on the wealth of the company.  For both of the problems mentioned, and lots others, a tax on wealth is a terrible way of government funding.  That's why it isn't done.   Just raise rates on income if the government needs more money.
It is done in virtually every taxing jurisdiction in the United States. The tax man doesn't ask me if I had a good year or a bad year when he comes to collect my property taxes.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 04:48:32 pm
 
This is apart from any candidate- it has to do with the way the electionsystem is based at the moment in the US.
It means that without enough money you don't have a chance...
It also means that influence in the political system can be bought.

Should we stop unions from using their money to influence elections to pass favorable union legislation and help union workers?  Should we prevent environmental organizations like The Sierra Club spending their money to influence government to protect the environment with more regulations?   SHould we stop Muslim groups from using their money to hire lobbyists to stop regulation of Muslim immigration?  Just where would you stop people and organizations from using their money to influence government action,, rules and legislation?  Who's going to determine which groups have value and should be allowed to do these things?  You?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 12, 2020, 04:49:29 pm
Who's going to determine which groups have value and should be allowed to do these things?  You?

I'll do it!
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 12, 2020, 04:51:32 pm
It is done in virtually every taxing jurisdiction in the United States. The tax man doesn't ask me if I had a good year or a bad year when he comes to collect my property taxes.

Yes, but your property taxes are significantly less then what Bernie is suggesting on a tax assessment amount that is almost always far below fair market value. 

Not to mention, as the owner of Shell oil once said, people who know how much they are worth are usually not worth that much.  It is nearly impossible to determine the exact value of an extremely wealthy person and would create a situation rife for exploitation.  There would be even more absurdities from tax lawyers going then there would be now, exactly the kind of things the Bernie Bros are against. 

Seriously, take a minute and actually think about it.  A 6% tax on total wealth?  Even in a good year, average profits are just below 6% of just revenue, not overall wealth.  If we use the proposed way of the Dems to determine the value of a business (revenue times 3), that means in a good economic year, the average company would need to raise an amount over three times their profit just to cover the tax.  It would crash the economy. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 05:01:43 pm
It is done in virtually every taxing jurisdiction in the United States. The tax man doesn't ask me if I had a good year or a bad year when he comes to collect my property taxes.
First, you're not competing with other homeowners.  In business, tying taxes to wealth as I explained in the last post, is a terrible and unproductive way of doing it.  Just raise business income taxes if you have too. 

Regarding property taxes, companies pay those as well if they lease or own a store or factory or farm.  And they even affect people as well.  Where I live, there are many people who retired and moved here 15 years ago who can no longer afford the property taxes, they have gone up so much in that time.  They've had to sell and move to areas in other states where property taxes are lower.  So it does have an effect even personally.

But my main objection to is it that it's stealing.  You and others who have not earned the money want to take property that doesn;t belong to you and give it to people who haven't earned it.  That's not the purpose of government or taxes.  Taxes are collected to run the government, not to redistribute wealth.  That's what the Soviet Union did.  It's immoral and in the end didn't work and destroyed their country's freedoms and economic prosperity.  Frankly, it was plain dumb thing to do.  Why do you think we're smarter than the Russians and will do it better? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 05:03:10 pm
I'll do it!
Sure.  :) 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2020, 05:07:14 pm
However only the people with the stinking fish get to say when the stink is too much to bear...After all, it is their stinking fish.


Peter

Yes, that's the status quo; it used to be the status quo in Britain, too, and the keepers of fish grew fat, dyspeptic and ever richer whilst the rest of humanity tugged its forelock and envied those on the next rung - maybe the footman or butler, or even the guy who drove the coach-and-four.

Today, though a lot better, some folks still grow fat but only because they don't have enough to pay for proper food and heating or clothes for their kids.

That's where my idea comes in and gives a progressive government the incentive to do something for the folks outwith that top percentile of fishkeepers. Let's face it - left to their own devices and the politicians they are always trying to get elected, their volume of fish would steadily increase until only global warming would put that fish back where it belongs. By themselves, they mostly wouldn't give you a sardine.

That said, some of them are different: they give enormous sums to charities and good works, tacitly accepting and understanding the reality and morality of too much being, well, too much for any one man or family. Let's "encourage" the recalcitrant rest to do the same by removing the alternative option!

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 05:14:48 pm
While giving their money to charity sounds wonderful and is good for the soul, it's not the best way to dispose of all that wealth.  Speaking of fish comes to mind the expression, give a man a fish and eats for a day.  Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.

Wealthy people should use their wealth to start or invest in other businesses or expand existing ones.  That capital used for investments create more wealth and jobs that help more people than a one-time gift of charity.  The fact is there's really no way billionaires can spend all their money.  It has to be invested which helps the economy and other people.  Even if they take some of it out of the investments, they;re going to spend it.  That means jobs for pilots, car assembly workers, boat manufacturers, as well as contribution to government in the form of taxes.  In the end they can;t take it with them so they leave it like any corpse that gets reabsorbed into nature:- dust,  money and all. 

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 12, 2020, 05:21:51 pm
Yes, that's the status quo; it used to be the status quo in Britain, too, and the keepers of fish grew fat, dyspeptic and ever richer whilst the rest of humanity tugged its forelock and envied those on the next rung - maybe the footman or butler, or even the guy who drove the coach-and-four.

Today, though a lot better, some folks still grow fat but only because they don't have enough to pay for proper food and heating or clothes for their kids.

That's where my idea comes in and gives a progressive government the incentive to do something for the folks outwith that top percentile of fishkeepers. Let's face it - left to their own devices and the politicians they are always trying to get elected, their volume of fish would steadily increase until only global warming would put that fish back where it belongs. By themselves, they mostly wouldn't give you a sardine.

That said, some of them are different: they give enormous sums to charities and good works, tacitly accepting and understanding the reality and morality of too much being, well, too much for any one man or family. Let's "encourage" the recalcitrant rest to do the same by removing the alternative option!

;-)

I personally get all that. But it can not be mandated that all must divest. That too, is a wrong.  Charity is a gift to the giver as well. Not everyone gets to know that.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 05:22:59 pm
While giving their money to charity sounds wonderful and is good for the soul, it's not the best way to dispose of all that wealth.  Speaking of fish comes to mind the expression, give a man a fish and eats for a day.  Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.

Wealthy people should use their wealth to start or invest in other businesses or expand existing ones.  That capital used for investments create more wealth and jobs that help more people than a one-time gift of charity.  The fact is there's really no way billionaires can spend all their money.  It has to be invested which helps the economy and other people.  Even if they take some of it out of the investments, they;re going to spend it.  That means jobs for pilots, car assembly workers, boat manufacturers, as well as contribution to government in the form of taxes.  In the end they can;t take it with them so they leave it like any corpse that gets reabsorbed into nature:- dust,  money and all.

I've no stats to back it up but my gut tells me most of the filthy rich don't leave the bulk of their fish in the cooler getting stinky.  I think they are using that fish to catch more fish.

I do some work for a guy who has lot of stinking fish.  I asked him once about why he continues to try and catch more fish.  Aside from wanting more fish to use as bait, he finds that counting the fish he has is how he keeps score of his fishing prowess.

He continues to catch a lot of fish. but he is really quite generous with the fish he catches.  He often holds fish frys for the people of his community.  I for one like it when I earn some of his fish.  I want him catch as many fish as he can...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 12, 2020, 05:26:26 pm
I've no stats to back it up but my gut trells me most of the filthy rich dont leave the bulk of thier fish in hte cooler getting stinky.  I think they are using that fish to catch more fish.

I do some work for a guy who has lot of stinking fish.  I asked him once about why he continues to try and catch more fish.  Aside from wanting more fish to use as bait, he finds that counting the fish he has is how he keeps score of his fishing prowess.

He continues to catch a lot of fish. but he is really quite generous wiht the fish he catches.  He often hold fish frys for the people of his community.  I for one like it when I earn some of his fish.  I want him catch as many fish as he can...

Lots of people like fish. A lot! I do not begrudge anyone their choice of diet. Me, I prefer a more balanced fare.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 12, 2020, 05:28:16 pm
However only the people with the stinking fish get to say when the stink is too much to bear...After all, it is their stinking fish...

+1
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 12, 2020, 05:32:45 pm
... Wealthy people should use their wealth...

However they want.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 05:44:18 pm
I personally get all that. But it can not be mandated that all must divest. That too, is a wrong.  Charity is a gift to the giver as well. Not everyone gets to know that.

Peter

Agreed.  Charity comes from the heart of the individual.  You can't put a gun up to someone's head and tell them to contribute to your favorite charity.  Actually, much wealth does go to charity because they can;t take it with them.  The hospital that I;ve been to have all sorts of wings built mainly from charitable giving.  People want to do good whether they're rich or poor.  We all have hearts.  We all have souls.  If all giving was government mandated, how would we save our souls?  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 12, 2020, 06:17:37 pm
Agreed.  Charity comes from the heart of the individual.  You can't put a gun up to someone's head and tell them to contribute to your favorite charity.  Actually, much wealth does go to charity because they can;t take it with them.  The hospital that I;ve been to have all sorts of wings built mainly from charitable giving.  People want to do good whether they're rich or poor.  We all have hearts.  We all have souls.  If all giving was government mandated, how would we save our souls?  :)

Not to mention, much of it is tax deductible!😛😛😛
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 12, 2020, 06:17:59 pm
Rob, have you missed my allegory about mice dictating how much grass should be enough for elephants? Because it seems to me it is quite fitting for what you are suggesting.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 12, 2020, 08:50:36 pm
... rather do I think it makes me someone who realises that greed is ultimately self-defeating and destructive.


Exactly.

Hence the term "Late Stage Capitalism"


.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 10:31:32 pm
The Democrat party insiders are going to steal it from Bernie again.  With a billionaire.  The irony on every level is so sweet. 

"Centrist Democrats Want to Stop Sanders. They’re Not Sure Who Can.
Unless a moderate favorite soon emerges, party leaders may increasingly look to Michael R. Bloomberg as a potential savior."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/us/politics/democrats-new-hampshire-sanders.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 12, 2020, 11:10:28 pm
Unless a moderate favorite soon emerges, party leaders may increasingly look to Michael R. Bloomberg as a potential savior.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/us/politics/democrats-new-hampshire-sanders.html

which would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 11:39:00 pm
which would be a good thing.
So the party of the little people, will turn their lives over to a billionaire to save themselves. Don;t you see the sweet irony?

In any case, he won't get my vote until I get the 8% raise he owes me.  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 12, 2020, 11:39:25 pm
Backdated.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 12, 2020, 11:55:08 pm
So the party of the little people, will turn their lives over to a billionaire to save themselves. Don;t you see the sweet irony?

In any case, he won't get my vote until I get the 8% raise he owes me.  :)

1. I don't see any irony. As long as he is a good steward of the economy, and doesn't lie as much as his predecessor, he'll do just fine. Big and little people will benefit. And fewer citizens will suffer heart attacks. 

2. I can't comment on your 8% raise. To some, 8% may seem high. Maybe you deserved it, maybe even 10%, but not all the others. That's the problem with government jobs.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 13, 2020, 12:53:51 am
The irony is that the Democratic party which has accused of Republicans of political corruption will undermine the democratic process in their own party to win.  They will put a billionaire into power to represent their party's members who don;t want a billionaire to represent them. 

They will approve and sanction this billionaire politician's measures when he was NYC mayor for 12 years who allowed the NYC police department to throw innocent black kids against the wall to search them for weapons in order to make black neighborhoods safe for black people all unconstitutionally.  An illegal rationale.  So the Democrat party will thumb its nose against their own members for power.  Damn their members.  What do they know or want?  Power is more important then philosophy and what's right.  So the Democrats will race to the bottom to win the prize so they can enrich themselves with money and political authority.  That's irony.  That's selling yourself out. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 13, 2020, 08:47:49 am
A Democrat attends a Trump rally in New Hampshire and leaves the  great Dem party. An interesting read about how knitting changed her.

https://medium.com/@karlyn/ive-been-a-democrat-for-20-years-here-s-what-i-experienced-at-trump-s-rally-in-new-hampshire-c69ddaaf6d07
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 13, 2020, 09:00:56 am
The whole Iowa and New Hampshire thing is roll-on-the-floor hilarious. Democrats doing their thing.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 13, 2020, 09:41:48 am
They finally realized what I've been saying for weeks.  Pelosi and Schiff aimed at Trump and shot Biden.  The only question is, was it deliberate?

"Trump Got Impeached -- But Is Biden Campaign the Casualty?"
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/13/trump_got_impeached_--_but_is_biden_campaign_the_casualty.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 13, 2020, 09:51:06 am
They finally realized what I've been saying for weeks.  Pelosi and Schiff aimed at Trump and shot Biden.  The only question is, was it deliberate?

"Trump Got Impeached -- But Is Biden Campaign the Casualty?"
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/13/trump_got_impeached_--_but_is_biden_campaign_the_casualty.html

1. Hunter Biden's Ukrainian business dealing would have been found out and publicized anyway.
2. Bloomberg would have pushed Biden to the side sooner or later with or without Trump's impeachment.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 13, 2020, 10:09:27 am
1. Hunter Biden's Ukrainian business dealing would have been found out and publicized anyway.
2. Bloomberg would have pushed Biden to the side sooner or later with or without Trump's impeachment.

Maybe, but later would have been better since it would not have given Bernie as much of an opening.  With Biden collapsing so soon, Bernie easily has the momentum to win it, and then Nixon vs McGovern will happen all over again. 

Second, I doubt Bloomberg will stop him either; the left will force him to apologize for stop and frisk, castrating him before he even gets out of the gate.  If he does not do this, he has no chance of winning the primary.  But if he does, he can't run on his record of making NYC safer since stop and frisk was a major part of that.  He will then be left with pretty much nothing to run on.  He has truly been put in a Catch 22 by the woke Dems. 

Even so, I still don't think that if Bloomberg plays everything right he can win.  Biden will stay in this race until after he looses in SC.  Though he is doing poorly, he still has a lot of name recognition and will suck the oxygen out the moderate lane, prevent the moderates from consolidating.  You may think this gets better after Biden drops out, but that is when Bloomberg comes in and will do the same thing.  Meanwhile, Bernie has consolidated the radical wing of the party and will continue to win pluralities, albeit not majorities. 



The only hope is that both Biden and Warren drop out now and push their supporters to Amy Klobuchar so she can consolidate the moderate wing before Bloomberg comes into the race.  Even so, this is still a slim hope.  Trump had 130K people in NH come out to vote for him in an incumbent primary (largest ever in the state by an very large margin) while having a 95% approval rating in the republican party.  It was a foregone conclusion Trump would win the primary, which means there is no reason to show up and vote unless you are incredibly enthused.  Meanwhile, the Dems are struggling to get 2016 turn out numbers for a primary that is not an incumbency. 

PS, an Obama endorsement of Klobuchar would be necessary as well. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 13, 2020, 10:12:32 am
Rob, have you missed my allegory about mice dictating how much grass should be enough for elephants? Because it seems to me it is quite fitting for what you are suggesting.


Only I don't equate strong government with mice. For me, that doesn't gell at all. Elephants, on the other hand, are known for creating havoc when they roam, devouring all sorts of things that man has tried to harvest and protect. I am not suggesting shooting them or removing their tusks; I am just suggesting we limit the terrain they can occupy, and control the number of trees they can strip.

They will still be permitted to play golf on their own courses.

Rob
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 14, 2020, 01:33:24 pm
If you really think Bloomberg is going to save the party from complete destruction in November, check this out: 

Warren skewers Bloomberg for blaming financial crisis on end of ‘redlining’ (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/warren-bloomberg-financial-crisis-redlining)

Like I have alluded to in the past, my brother is a far left wing Bernie supporter who is also a social media consultant and political writer.  He is going to town on this, like full out pitch forks in hands, ready to burn Bloomberg at the stake over this.  It is over! 

Maybe if Warren had not collapsed so early, Bloomberg could have stood a chance.  But I think the biggest take away from this will be that Bloomberg waited too long to get in the game; that he should have been on the NV ballot.  And maybe he should have spent some of his ad money to attack socialism instead of just attacking Trump. 

Bernie is looking more and more like he will be the nominee, and then every Dem, from Federal to local, will be put into the position to support and defend communism.  Maybe some will choose wisely and disavow Bernie; Joe Manchin is signaling that he may endorse Trump ultimately.  However I think most will go down with the ship. 

Oh yeah, don't forget, 2021 is a redistricting year.  This is why I keep on saying Bernie will not only loose, but completely destroy the party.  The Dems wont recover until at least 2031, after the next census. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 14, 2020, 02:26:04 pm
But I think the biggest take away from this will be that Bloomberg waited too long to get in the game; that he should have been on the NV ballot.  And maybe he should have spent some of his ad money to attack socialism instead of just attacking Trump. 

Bernie is looking more and more like he will be the nominee, and then every Dem, from Federal to local, will be put into the position to support and defend communism.  Maybe some will choose wisely and disavow Bernie; Joe Manchin is signaling that he may endorse Trump ultimately.  However I think most will go done with the ship. 

I also think that Bloomberg waited too long, but there is still a lot of time for voters to make up their mind.
Impossible to make predictions at this time. We'll have a much better picture in 2 weeks, after the Super Tuesday.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 14, 2020, 02:36:41 pm
I also think that Bloomberg waited too long, but there is still a lot of time for voters to make up their mind.
Impossible to make predictions at this time. We'll have a much better picture in 2 weeks, after the Super Tuesday.

If Warren's campaign had not also crashed, like Biden's, I would be more likely to agree with you.  Bloomberg's whole strategy was to let everyone bash each other to hell and back, and then he comes in to pick up the pieces.  And even if Biden crashed beforehand, it was still a winning bet, so long as no one really consolidated any part of the party.  This looked like the case back in October, but who could have predicted Warren's fall from grace. 

That was the miscalculation. 

Now, even if Bloomberg wins, it will be by a slim amount and will be seen by most Bernie Bros as the Dems gypping Bernie of the nomination, just like in 2016.  If the Dems are smart, they will gyp Bernie and just except Trump winning a 2nd term.  This will then allow state Dems to remain viable for redistricting in 2021.  But the Dems have been pretty horrible in calculations recently.  So I would not put it past them to roll the bones, which happen to be weighted for snake eyes. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 14, 2020, 03:14:23 pm
It's all academic. The entire Democrat field is a joke. The only person who can bring Trump down is Trump. He keeps working on it, but if he's going to bring it off against this incredible field of incompetent clowns he's gonna have to work a lot harder. And the impeachment charade guarantees that the Democrats will lose the House and the Republicans hang on to the Senate.

ROTFL
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 14, 2020, 03:55:22 pm
It's all academic. The entire Democrat field is a joke. The only person who can bring Trump down is Trump. He keeps working on it, but if he's going to bring it off against this incredible field of incompetent clowns he's gonna have to work a lot harder. And the impeachment charade guarantees that the Democrats will lose the House and the Republicans hang on to the Senate.

ROTFL

I'm afraid you're mistaken this time, Russ. Trump can't bring Trump down: the NRA will block it; his base won't allow it. It would have to admit it had made a bad choice. He can only resign. But if the offer deal is good enough... who knows?

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 14, 2020, 06:24:56 pm
I also think that Bloomberg waited too long, but there is still a lot of time for voters to make up their mind.
Impossible to make predictions at this time. We'll have a much better picture in 2 weeks, after the Super Tuesday.
I agree.  It's too early.  Bloomberg is being protected by the powers that be in politics and the press.  He'll be given a pass on his frisk policies of minorities.  I could see Bloomberg and Kobluchar or Warren as VP.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 14, 2020, 07:02:00 pm
I agree.  It's too early.  Bloomberg is being protected by the powers that be in politics and the press.  He'll be given a pass on his frisk policies of minorities.  I could see Bloomberg and Kobluchar or Warren as VP.

I'd speculate that the media and all his competitors will use Bloomberg's frisk-and-search policy as an easy and convenient way to attack him, but when it comes to the actual voters, most of them are not disturbed by it.

When it comes to the choice of VP, I can't see Warren on Bloomberg's ticket. Klobuchar is a definite possibility.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 14, 2020, 09:01:50 pm
I'd speculate that the media and all his competitors will use Bloomberg's frisk-and-search policy as an easy and convenient way to attack him, but when it comes to the actual voters, most of them are not disturbed by it.

When it comes to the choice of VP, I can't see Warren on Bloomberg's ticket. Klobuchar is a definite possibility.
The media won;t attack him because they're anti-Trump. 

Putting Warren on the ticket would keep the left voting so they don;t stay home. It would have the added benefit of having a woman on the ticket, although no longer a minority woman.  :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 15, 2020, 06:14:52 am
... although no longer a minority woman.  :)

I can only imagine Pocahontas being thrown against a wall and frisked  ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 15, 2020, 06:44:32 am
Still not so sure about Bloomberg now that Warren and Biden are going after him with a vengeance. 

I guess they both want to show how horrible campaigners they are going after someone that will enter the race after they are forced to drop out instead of going after Bernie, their real threat. 

How those got to the top I will never be able to figure out. 

 ??? ??? ???

But anyway, real Bernie Bro quote from yesterday, " I'd vote for any of the Dems in the field right now. I dont think I can vote for Bloomberg if he were the nominee."  So maybe Bloomberg will be able to win the nominee, but he will have an uphill battle getting the votes to win the general. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 15, 2020, 08:49:28 am
Joe, you probably need to read Holman Jenkins's opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal. The title of the piece is "Bloomberg Buys the Democratic Elite." Jenkins points out that buying the elite isn't going to bring along the hoi polloi. In fact, it probably will do the reverse.

Then, there's never Trumper Peggy Noonan's piece: "Mike Bloomberg Could Pull It Off." Er.... I don't think so.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 15, 2020, 09:03:10 am
I did read somepages back a post about this thread being an echo chamber....

Maybe we can move this thread to a new part called ;  Tea Party
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 15, 2020, 03:45:15 pm
Perhaps for Bloomberg's sake, we better hope he does not win.  Otherwise the presidency just may get a little more suicidal. 

Mike Bloomberg 'is considering picking Hillary Clinton as his running mate in the 2020 Democratic race to help take on Trump' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8007521/Mike-Bloomberg-wants-Hillary-Clinton-running-mate-say-sources.html)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 15, 2020, 04:01:12 pm
Perhaps for Bloomberg's sake, we better hope he does not win.  Otherwise the presidency just may get a little more suicidal. 

Mike Bloomberg 'is considering picking Hillary Clinton as his running mate in the 2020 Democratic race to help take on Trump' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8007521/Mike-Bloomberg-wants-Hillary-Clinton-running-mate-say-sources.html)
The source for the story is the Drudge Report so you may want to factor that in when evaluating the credibility of the report.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Chris Kern on February 15, 2020, 04:05:02 pm
The source for the story is the Drudge Report so you may want to factor that in.

A Drudge Report story picked up by the Daily Mail?  It sure doesn't get any more authoritative than that.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 15, 2020, 04:36:07 pm
A Drudge Report story picked up by the Daily Mail?  It sure doesn't get any more authoritative than that.

Since the Drudge Report is an aggregator, it would appear this is a Daily Mail story.

Just an FYI

Added on Edit:

It appears it was a Drudge story. My bad
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 15, 2020, 04:40:09 pm
The source for the story is the Drudge Report so you may want to factor that in when evaluating the credibility of the report.

And you may want to work on your sense of humor. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 15, 2020, 04:42:17 pm
And you may want to work on your sense of humor.
So you think this story is the Drudge Report's attempt at humor?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 15, 2020, 04:49:58 pm
So you think this story is the Drudge Report's attempt at humor?

Since you’re not a USA citizen I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here.  There is a running joke on HRC that she can make people kill themselves since more then a handfull of nefarious associates of the Clintons have done so, like Epstein to name one. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 15, 2020, 04:58:28 pm
Since you’re not a USA citizen I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here.  There is a running joke on HRC that she can make people kill themselves since more then a handfull of nefarious associates of the Clintons have done so, like Epstein to name one.
You know you are in trouble when you have to explain your own jokes.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 15, 2020, 05:01:21 pm
You know you are in trouble when you have to explain your own jokes.

It was a pretty direct joke at least as Joe expressed it,  with the key word being suicidal.

BTW, as an aside I looked at your work and I like it. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 15, 2020, 05:36:40 pm
It was a pretty direct joke at least as Joe expressed it,  with the key word being suicidal.
I get it now.  Thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 15, 2020, 07:47:17 pm
You know you are in trouble when you have to explain your own jokes.

Maybe so. 

Thanks Craig for pointing out the key word there. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 16, 2020, 08:06:41 am
Another crushing blow to Biden's candidacy:
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 16, 2020, 10:28:36 am
Didn't know Joe played the banjo.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 16, 2020, 11:30:57 am
Isn't it ironic that the Democrats who scowl at people who have too much money and use it for political influence now have the chief purchaser in their own midst representing them.  Of course, I'm talking after Bloomberg.  Steyer is a cheapskate compared to him although another Democrat billionaire trying to buy his way too. 

Bloomberg is spending his way to the top
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/16/politics/michael-bloomberg-analysis/index.html

And let's not leave out the promises for the government to give give give.  To everyone.

Bloomberg unveils plans for Americans’ Social Security, retirement savings
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/16/bloomberg-lays-out-plans-for-social-security-retirement-savings.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 16, 2020, 04:36:10 pm
You can't make this stuff up.

"NYC subway thief thanks Democrats after his 139th arrest, release: 'Bail reform, it’s lit!'"

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-bail-reform-law-nyc-subway-thief-thanks-democrats-139th-arrest

Quote
A New York City man who’s now been arrested 139 times thanked Democrats for guaranteeing his immediate release despite repeatedly swiping hundreds of dollars from unsuspecting subway commuters since the state’s new bail reform law went into effect Jan. 1.

Charles Barry, 56, has been arrested six times since the start of this year. He’s been released each time without having to post bail under New York’s new bail reform law since his alleged offenses were nonviolent, the New York Daily News reported. In the past, Barry’s served several stints in state prison and has a lengthy record, including six felonies, 87 misdemeanors and 21 missed court hearings, the newspaper reported, citing court records.

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 16, 2020, 04:51:28 pm
You can't make this stuff up.

"NYC subway thief thanks Democrats after his 139th arrest, release: 'Bail reform, it’s lit!'"

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-bail-reform-law-nyc-subway-thief-thanks-democrats-139th-arrest

I mentioned the other day that reading my newspaper (Spanish, with a bias towards the local stuff) informs me that almost all the cases recently reported upon have ended with prison sentences - all suspended for a year or two, depending on future conduct.

I have concluded that as in Britain, it isn't "political" kindnesses, but really all about a very stretched prison service... they don't have the vacancies and neither the money to build bigger and better. 

You'd be surprised how often, when discussing such topics, somebody leans towards me and whispers: "never happened in Franco's time, we could go out without locking our houses".

Publicly and loudly, nobody likes to let on that they actually felt safer the way it was, rather than today, with all the junkies robbing just to feed their habit. Political correctness takes many forms and tuns people into hypocrits. Not that they'd admit it, naturally.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 16, 2020, 07:56:12 pm
This is something Bloomberg can't buy.

President Donald Trump flies over Daytona Race Track in Air Force 1 than leads field on a pace lap after giving command ahead of Daytona 500
https://sports.yahoo.com/president-donald-trump-gives-command-for-drivers-to-start-their-engines-at-daytona-500-200743873.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 16, 2020, 09:26:38 pm
This is something Bloomberg can't buy.

President Donald Trump flies over Daytona Race Track in Air Force 1 than leads field on a pace lap after giving command ahead of Daytona 500
https://sports.yahoo.com/president-donald-trump-gives-command-for-drivers-to-start-their-engines-at-daytona-500-200743873.html
Your tax dollars at work.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 16, 2020, 09:32:08 pm
Found out today that Bloomberg shut down his investigative media team in China after the Chinese government told him in no uncertain terms that it would cost him if he did not.  When given the opportunity to maintain moral and journalistic ethics, he decided instead to kowtow to China to increase his wealth, just like the NBA. 

This is not going to play very well now that the entire country pretty much is on the same side of the isle as Trump is on China. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 16, 2020, 10:13:20 pm
Another crushing blow to Biden's candidacy:

Got to love this Dennis Miller quote, "The Dems have to realize he shouldn't become president because he might be the first president ever to assonate a member of his constituency." 

Is it just me or is Joe Biden getting crazier out there? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 16, 2020, 11:26:25 pm
Found out today that Bloomberg shut down his investigative media team in China after the Chinese government told him in no uncertain terms that it would cost him if he did not.  When given the opportunity to maintain moral and journalistic ethics, he decided instead to kowtow to China to increase his wealth, just like the NBA. 

This is not going to play very well now that the entire country pretty much is on the same side of the isle as Trump is on China. 
Sure, Trump ads will show how the president went after the Chinese for stealing our stuff, hurting them with tariffs, while Bloomberg blinked.  What kind of president do you want defending the country? 

The irony is that after the Democrats accused Trump of emoluments and doing what the Russians and others want because of his foreign hotels and other foreign ventures, Trump can turn it around and accuse the Democrat of the same thing, only worse.    What goes around comes around. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 17, 2020, 03:52:56 am
Found out today that Bloomberg shut down his investigative media team in China after the Chinese government told him in no uncertain terms that it would cost him if he did not.  When given the opportunity to maintain moral and journalistic ethics, he decided instead to kowtow to China to increase his wealth, just like the NBA. 

This is not going to play very well now that the entire country pretty much is on the same side of the isle as Trump is on China.

Isn't life a funny thing!

There I was, suggesting a way forward to redistribute wealth by leaving the very rich holding onto a maximum of fifty million fish in personal cash or goodies, their invested interests something quite apart - a place most folks I know would find themselves very comfortable being able to inhabit - and was roundly condemmed for my supposedly red-under-the-bed thinking mechanism!

Now, my interference and presumptuousness is turned on its head because it has become legitimate to criticise China for wanting others to mind their own business. And worst of all, somebody else, an American, may be about to make more squillions for minding his own business! Oh sweet irony, will your audience see you or are you dancing in vain?

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 17, 2020, 04:09:23 am
Your tax dollars at work.

And cruising along the track, for a moment, he felt the power surge of the man in a black Cadillac: he could almost have been as famous as Frank Sinatra!

Twenty laps later rain stopped play and the dream had already gone somewhere else. Bloody climate change.

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 17, 2020, 04:58:29 am
Bloomberg is spending millions of his own money on the election, thus redistributing his personal wealth to fellow Americans. Better than buying a yacht.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 17, 2020, 07:31:06 am
I think Bloomberg is running against himself more then Trump is, who could have thought. 

"I could teach anybody, even people in this room, no offense intended, to be a farmer," Bloomberg said. "It's a process. You dig a hole, you put a seed in, you put dirt on top, add water, up comes the corn. You could learn that."

I was listening to a podcast recently talking about Bloomberg's stop and frisk video, and the guy made an interesting point.  Bloomberg was not being racist in that video, he was just being himself, talking down to people.  It does not matter your race, gender, income level, he just talks down to you. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 17, 2020, 08:44:08 am
Isn't life a funny thing!

There I was, suggesting a way forward to redistribute wealth by leaving the very rich holding onto a maximum of fifty million fish in personal cash or goodies, their invested interests something quite apart - a place most folks I know would find themselves very comfortable being able to inhabit - and was roundly condemmed for my supposedly red-under-the-bed thinking mechanism!

Now, my interference and presumptuousness is turned on its head because it has become legitimate to criticise China for wanting others to mind their own business. And worst of all, somebody else, an American, may be about to make more squillions for minding his own business! Oh sweet irony, will your audience see you or are you dancing in vain?

;-)
Just as Trump is criticized for what he did in business once he got into politics, so Bloomberg is open to criticism about his business practices now that he's running for office. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 17, 2020, 08:47:05 am
Bloomberg is spending millions of his own money on the election, thus redistributing his personal wealth to fellow Americans. Better than buying a yacht.
The media loves Bloomberg and Trump for how rich these guys are making them.  Not only from their ads, but from the constant buzz that brings in readers and watchers and raises ad revenues.  Trump isn't a yacht kind of guy. He doesn;t like to build anything that has to float. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 17, 2020, 08:53:46 am
I think Bloomberg is running against himself more then Trump is, who could have thought. 

"I could teach anybody, even people in this room, no offense intended, to be a farmer," Bloomberg said. "It's a process. You dig a hole, you put a seed in, you put dirt on top, add water, up comes the corn. You could learn that."

I was listening to a podcast recently talking about Bloomberg's stop and frisk video, and the guy made an interesting point.  Bloomberg was not being racist in that video, he was just being himself, talking done to people.  It does not matter your race, gender, income level, he just talks down to you. 
Nanny Bloomberg.  When he was NYC mayor, he imposed a regulation that stopped soda cups larger than 16 ounces.  He was concerned that people were eating too much sugar.  He was sued and lost in court.  It's his was or the highway.  In his soul he's a dictator, but a nice one who only wants good for you according to what he thinks is the right thing. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 17, 2020, 10:47:41 am
Bloomberg is spending millions of his own money on the election, thus redistributing his personal wealth to fellow Americans. Better than buying a yacht.

I agree, but could have found a better way of off-loading some of that. I had better polish my begging bowl and rework my spiel before pitching to him!

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 17, 2020, 10:52:38 am
Trump isn't a yacht kind of guy.
He had to sell his yacht during one of his bankruptcies.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 17, 2020, 10:55:35 am
I agree, but could have found a better way of off-loading some of that. I had better polish my begging bowl and rework my spiel before pitching to him!

;-)

No sweat, Rob. He'll teach you to farm (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bloomberg-implied-farming-is-easy-in-2016-comments). I'm sure that with his extensive farming experience and knowledgable instruction, even I could learn to farm.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 17, 2020, 10:56:06 am
He had to sell his yacht during one of his bankruptcies.
Knowing Trump, he probably made twice what he paid for it. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 17, 2020, 11:06:22 am
No sweat, Rob. He'll teach you to farm (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bloomberg-implied-farming-is-easy-in-2016-comments). I'm sure that with his knowledgable instruction, even I could learn to farm.
I'm sure Bloomberg believes that most people shouldn't vote because they don't understand things.  The difference between Bloomberg and Trump is that while Trump was only kidding at being president for a third term, Bloomberg actually bought his third term as mayor.  He promised the head of the NYC Council that he would support her later in her run for mayor if she would get the counsel to change the law.  The law while he was mayor in his second term was that only two terms are allowed.  So the Counsel changed the law to allow three terms, he ran, and won.   When she ran after Bloomberg left, she lost.  People were really perturbed she changed the law.  In any case, the law was changed back subsequently to two terms.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 17, 2020, 11:09:53 am
...The law while he was mayor in his second term was that only two terms are allowed.  So the Counsel changed the law to allow three terms...

That's where Putin got the idea!  ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 17, 2020, 02:26:43 pm
That's where Putin got the idea!  ;)

Watch this space.

:-(
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 17, 2020, 07:59:59 pm
“Nevertheless, there's this enormous cohort of black and Latino males, age, let’s say, 16 to 25,” Bloomberg said, “that don't have jobs, don't have any prospects, don't know how to find jobs, don't know what their skill sets are, don't know how to behave in the workplace where they have to work collaboratively and collectively.”

Wow. 

I can see the Trump campaign slogan now, "at least I'm not a racist!" 

As I said before, you guys are looking at a false messiah.  Klobuchar is the only one who has a chance, but it looks like a safe bet you will ignore her. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 18, 2020, 04:28:34 am
“Nevertheless, there's this enormous cohort of black and Latino males, age, let’s say, 16 to 25,” Bloomberg said, “that don't have jobs, don't have any prospects, don't know how to find jobs, don't know what their skill sets are, don't know how to behave in the workplace where they have to work collaboratively and collectively.”

Wow. 

I can see the Trump campaign slogan now, "at least I'm not a racist!" 

As I said before, you guys are looking at a false messiah.  Klobuchar is the only one who has a chance, but it looks like a safe bet you will ignore her.

Why do you choose to consider that racist rather than to look upon it as the inevitable result of having little experience in the workplace?

If your life as a kid has been mostly on the streets, fighting to survive and only obeying some gang leader, growing up believing that "what's mine is mine, and so is yours if I can get it," how else can you expect those kids to behave when placed into a different culture where it's quite possible the employer, or immediate boss at interface level at least, is just as ignorant of the kid's experience and expectations?

I'll tell you something: invite some average white guy to a good restaurant for dinner, and be surprised at the trouble he has knowing which set of tools to use for what and when. Those things come into your life early, or you need to be educated into the way of it. You should never take for granted that things you know other people also know. Behaviour is largely peer-generated. To get that you need only think back to your own youth (you, in the sense of all of us). I experienced it often when I tried to learn something about digital photography: mostly, those trying to answer and help asumed I knew far more than I actually did, which left their responses way above my head. As I said, it's easy to expect the other person to know as much as you do, and then feel disappointed in them when you prove yourself mistaken.

No, I don't think that Bloomberg was being racist: just observant. For a start, can everyone understand j¡ve talk?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 18, 2020, 05:06:20 am
Why do you choose to consider that racist...

Rob, I think calling that "racist" is just turning the table on Democrats who would, and do, call such a thing, if coming from Trump, or Republicans, racist within a millisecond.

I do not hold it against Bloomberg for saying that, or for saying what he said about stop & frisk, etc. I hold it against him for apologizing for telling the truth.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 18, 2020, 06:20:31 am
Rob, exactly what Slobo said.  If a republican said this, he would be tarred and feathered by the left.

Having Bloomberg as a candidate pretty much destroys any Trump is a racist argument since Bloomberg has a litany of insensitive racially charged statements, even if they are essentially true.  Neither Bloomberg, nor Trump for that matter, have the gift of decorum. 

Also, I might added that the Bernie Bros are already labeling Bloomberg a racist, protesting his events and getting kicked out.  If Bloomberg wins the primary, about a 1/3 of the Dems just wont vote. 

I think James Carville (retired Democrat consultant) put it best when he said there is a big city smugness in the party right now that will cause the Dems to loose.  Bloomberg pretty much exemplifies that. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: budjames on February 18, 2020, 07:09:22 am
Enough with Trump already.  Let's leave some oxygen for everyone else.  So what's going on with the Democrats?  Will Biden pull it out?  Will America go for a Soviet?  Will Bloomberg get the nod in a brokered convention? Does anyone care?
I agree. However, I did vote for Trump and I will do so again in 2020. For results, he will go down in history as the most productive President in our lifetimes. As for his personality, not a fan of his attacks, but my investments and tax returns don't care about personalities.

Cheers.
Bud
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 18, 2020, 03:35:42 pm
So let's see.   Bernie isn't a democrat.  He's an Independent running as a Democrat.  Bloomberg was the Republican mayor of New York City for 12 years during which his wealth increased from $5 to $35 billion.   Republican!  Isn't it embarrassing the Democrats have two leaders running wo aren't Democrats?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 18, 2020, 03:36:58 pm
His slogan should be,  "Bloomberg For The Little People. "
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 18, 2020, 03:40:49 pm
Mike Bloomberg blasts ‘Bernie Bros’ in new campaign ad (https://nypost.com/2020/02/17/mike-bloomberg-blasts-bernie-bros-in-new-campaign-ad/)

So I guess the whole promise not to attack other Dems just went out the window.  The gulf in the party is going to be miles wide by the convention. 

If I lived in Milwaukee, I would be a little worried right now. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 18, 2020, 03:47:51 pm
Today Trump committed or pardoned ex Governor Blagojevich, a Democrat,  Millikan junk bond king,  and Bernie Kerik, ex NYC police commissioner under Giuliani after 911. I thought he'd wait until after the election. He'll probably pardon some big black honcho to secure the black vote against accused "racist" Bloomberg.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 18, 2020, 04:25:15 pm
So let's see.   Bernie isn't a democrat.  He's an Independent running as a Democrat.  Bloomberg was the Republican mayor of New York City for 12 years during which his wealth increased from $5 to $35 billion.   Republican!  Isn't it embarrassing the Democrats have two leaders running wo aren't Democrats?

Bloomberg should have joined GOP and then the two could have duked it out. Who needs Trump?

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 18, 2020, 05:05:49 pm
Bloomberg should have joined GOP and then the two could have duked it out. Who needs Trump?


You not liking Trump doesn't mean anything. 90% of Republicans support Trump.   There's no room for Bloomberg or anyone else right now.   Bloomberg had to run as a Democrat.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 18, 2020, 06:14:21 pm
You not liking Trump doesn't mean anything. 90% of Republicans support Trump.

Do Republicans have an alternative option but to vote for Trump? Support for Trump doesn't seem to show from his approval rating (especially when lacking an alternative).
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 18, 2020, 07:54:59 pm
Do Republicans have an alternative option but to vote for Trump? Support for Trump doesn't seem to show from his approval rating (especially when lacking an alternative).
Yes.  There are Republican nominations for president just like the Democrats.  Of course, the anti-Trump press would rather not mention it since Trump is swamping the vote.  Well, maybe I shouldn;t use the word swamp.  In any case, here's the tally link to date.  Note that I'm running for Republican president as well.  If you were an American, you could write in my name.  And thank you everyone who  actually is voting for me.  :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2020_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries#Iowa
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 18, 2020, 08:20:44 pm
From a pure entertainment perspective, this just keeps on getting better and better. 

"If your conversation during a presidential election is about some guy wearing a dress and whether he, she, or it can go to the locker room with their daughter, that's not a winning formula with most people," Bloomberg said in 2019. 

He actually used the pronoun "it" when talking about a person.   :o  My God, I think I can hear the heads of Bernie Bros exploding as I write this. 

Maybe Bloomberg really is the guy the Dems need.  If he wins the nomination, perhaps he will be able to slap the entire woke BS out of their heads. 

If Bloomberg goes full tilt tomorrow night, it will be amazing.  Although, if he does, you may want to think about selling any real estate you have in downtown Milwaukee.  Bernie Campaign Organizer Says 'Milwaukee will Burn' if Sanders Loses (https://newstalk1130.iheart.com/featured/common-sense-central/content/2020-01-14-bernie-campaign-organizer-says-milwaukee-will-burn-if-sanders-loses/)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 18, 2020, 08:44:32 pm
Latest poll:  Biden fading fast.  Bloomberg gaining fast.  Sanders at top.
Bernie Sanders 31%
Michael Bloomberg 19%
Joe Biden 15%
Elizabeth Warren 12%
Amy Klobuchar 9%
Pete Buttigieg 8%
The rest under 2% each
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/UPDATED_Tuesday-Release_NPR_PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_2002171446.pdf#page=3
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 18, 2020, 08:49:34 pm
From a pure entertainment perspective, this just keeps on getting better and better. 

"If your conversation during a presidential election is about some guy wearing a dress and whether he, she, or it can go to the locker room with their daughter, that's not a winning formula with most people," Bloomberg said in 2019. 

He actually used the pronoun "it" when talking about a person.   :o  My God, I think I can hear the heads of Bernie Bros exploding as I write this. 

Maybe Bloomberg really is the guy the Dems need.  If he wins the nomination, perhaps he will be able to slap the entire woke BS out of their heads. 

If Bloomberg goes full tilt tomorrow night, it will be amazing.  Although, if he does, you may want to think about selling any real estate you have in downtown Milwaukee.  Bernie Campaign Organizer Says 'Milwaukee will Burn' if Sanders Loses (https://newstalk1130.iheart.com/featured/common-sense-central/content/2020-01-14-bernie-campaign-organizer-says-milwaukee-will-burn-if-sanders-loses/)
Don't underestimate Bloomberg.  He won three terms as NYC mayor as a Republican in a liberal Democrat city.  He bought his third term paying to change the law against it.  Trump may rue the day he went after Biden in Ukraine.  Maybe Pelosi made a deal with Bloomberg.  He told her he would pay for all the campaigns of democrats running in the upcoming election if she would impeach Trump.  That would put the target of corruption on Biden and push him out, which is what's happening.  The swamp runs deep and wide in Washington DC. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 18, 2020, 09:01:30 pm
Don't underestimate Bloomberg.  He won three terms as NYC mayor as a Republican in a liberal Democrat city.  He bought his third term paying to change the law against it.  Trump may rue the day he went after Biden in Ukraine.  Maybe Pelosi made a deal with Bloomberg.  He told her he would pay for all the campaigns of democrats running in the upcoming election if she would impeach Trump.  That would put the target of corruption on Biden and push him out, which is what's happening.  The swamp runs deep and wide in Washington DC.

If Bloomberg owns his comments and does not bend over for the left in the party, I think he may very well be a force to reckon with. 

But if he comes out and apologizes, he'll be dead in the water.  People are not looking for some fake as hell pussyfoot, which is why Bernie is doing well.  Bernie, or course, has other problems, mainly with being a communist in a country where the vast majority have a deep negative view of communism. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 18, 2020, 09:20:50 pm
If Bloomberg owns his comments and does not bend over for the left in the party, I think he may very well be a force to reckon with. 

But if he comes out and apologizes, he'll be dead in the water.  People are not looking for some fake as hell pussyfoot, which is why Bernie is doing well.  Bernie, or course, has other problems, mainly with being a communist in a country where the vast majority have a deep negative view of communism. 
Bloomberg is already making overtures for liberal giveaways to people in line with the left of the Democratic party.  If he wins the nomination, he could pick Warren as his VP running mate and secure the vote on the left.  Sanders will come around and support the Democrat ticket securing Bloomberg's offer to become ambassador to the Soviet Union, er, Russia.  Well, maybe Cuba or Venezuela.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 18, 2020, 09:21:33 pm
Either way you look at it though, the Democratic party is royally screwed beyond belief.  I never thought I would ever see either of our two major parties in this shape.  Just look at the candidates. 

You have a cranky old commie, a banjo playing zombie, a chieftess who's way off the reservation, the jack of all platitudes but master of no policies, the Big Apple version of Frog Horn Leg Horn, and the invisible woman. 

I am sure there must be some Dems behind closed doors shaking their heads, asking themselves how it got to this, and debating if they should pour another Bourbon Special or just go straight for the 38 special. 



Okay, so I was looking for a James Carville meme to go with that last sentence and could not find anything relatable, but my God, does that man have a way with words.  If anyone really thinks Trump is the first crass person in politics, just look up some Ragin Cajun classics.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 18, 2020, 09:56:38 pm
Bloomberg is already making overtures for liberal giveaways to people in line with the left of the Democratic party.  If he wins the nomination, he could pick Warren as his VP running mate and secure the vote on the left.  Sanders will come around and support the Democrat ticket securing Bloomberg's offer to become ambassador to the Soviet Union, er, Russia.  Well, maybe Cuba or Venezuela.

Peter Thiel recently said that the way you know that you won an argument in politics is if both sides agree with you.  Well the entirety of the country, on both sides, now feels China is a threat that needs to be dealt with. 

This alone will sink Bloomberg. 

Bloomberg News ex-reporter's wife says his lawyers threatened to 'ruin' family over China reporting (https://www.foxnews.com/media/bloomberg-news-ex-reporters-wife-says-his-lawyers-threatened-to-ruin-family-over-china-reporting)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 19, 2020, 06:40:32 am
Fair and balanced:
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 19, 2020, 01:11:52 pm
Either way you look at it though, the Democratic party is royally screwed beyond belief.  I never thought I would ever see either of our two major parties in this shape.  Just look at the candidates. 

You have a cranky old commie, a banjo playing zombie, a chieftess who's way off the reservation, the jack of all platitudes but master of no policies, the Big Apple version of Frog Horn Leg Horn, and the invisible woman. 

I am sure there must be some Dems behind closed doors shaking their heads, asking themselves how it got to this, and debating if they should pour another Bourbon Special or just go straight for the 38 special. 



Okay, so I was looking for a James Carville meme to go with that last sentence and could not find anything relatable, but my God, does that man have a way with words.  If anyone really thinks Trump is the first crass person in politics, just look up some Ragin Cajun classics.

You seem to have completely forgotten that 3.5 years ago Trump was up on stage claiming that Cruz's dad killed Kennedy, and that Lindsay Graham was claiming Trump was the antichrist, among other things.   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 19, 2020, 02:22:18 pm
Either way you look at it though, the Democratic party is royally screwed beyond belief.  I never thought I would ever see either of our two major parties in this shape.  Just look at the candidates. 

You have a cranky old commie, a banjo playing zombie, a chieftess who's way off the reservation, the jack of all platitudes but master of no policies, the Big Apple version of Frog Horn Leg Horn, and the invisible woman. 

I am sure there must be some Dems behind closed doors shaking their heads, asking themselves how it got to this, and debating if they should pour another Bourbon Special or just go straight for the 38 special. 



Okay, so I was looking for a James Carville meme to go with that last sentence and could not find anything relatable, but my God, does that man have a way with words.  If anyone really thinks Trump is the first crass person in politics, just look up some Ragin Cajun classics.


Your wish on a plate:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hna_-tRIiiQ
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 19, 2020, 02:57:20 pm
You seem to have completely forgotten that 3.5 years ago Trump was up on stage claiming that Cruz's dad killed Kennedy, and that Lindsay Graham was claiming Trump was the antichrist, among other things.

Yes, that was quite interesting as well.  Let’s see if Bloomberg will bring some attention to otherwise boring debates so far. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 19, 2020, 04:25:00 pm
Peter Thiel recently said that the way you know that you won an argument in politics is if both sides agree with you.  Well the entirety of the country, on both sides, now feels China is a threat that needs to be dealt with. 
I watch the news pretty carefully and haven't seen any coverage on the issue. Do you have a poll or something that shows the entirety of the country on both sides now feels China is a treat.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 19, 2020, 04:34:54 pm
I watch the news pretty carefully and haven't seen any coverage on the issue. Do you have a poll or something that shows the entirety of the country on both sides now feels China is a treat.

Chuck Schumer urges Trump to ‘hang tough on China’ after latest tariff threat while other top Democrats are quiet (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/06/schumer-urges-trump-to-hang-tough-after-china-trade-tariff-threat.html)

Add to that that all of the candidates, with the exception of Biden, have been talking being tough on China.  It's a major change in international political thinking in the USA.  If Bloomberg appears to be soft on China, it will be a big negative. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: James Clark on February 19, 2020, 04:35:18 pm
I watch the news pretty carefully and haven't seen any coverage on the issue. Do you have a poll or something that shows the entirety of the country on both sides now feels China is a treat.

To be fair, the idea that China is a primary competitor to the US and poses a significant geopolitical challenge ("threat" is fine..) isn't exactly a radical idea ;)

To gist of the article seems to be that Bloomberg (the company, not the guy) is accused of killing negative stories so as not to be denied business opportunities in China.   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 19, 2020, 04:42:14 pm
Getting back to Bloomberg overall, this article pretty much sums up my thoughts on him. 

Why Mike Bloomberg is already pandering to the left: Goodwin (https://nypost.com/2020/02/18/why-mike-bloomberg-is-already-pandering-to-the-left-goodwin/)

If Bloomberg went fill tilt, did not care what the left thought of him and just ran on his record unapologetically, I feel he would be a force to reckon with.  But it appears like he is becoming "Bernie Lite," and why go for that when you can have "Bernie Full Strength."  This is the same issue with all of the candidates; they are trying to be kind of woke but kind of normal at the same time. 

It's not going to work, not even for Bloomberg.  Not to mention it destroys his authenticity, the largest positive for both Trump and Bernie. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 19, 2020, 05:04:51 pm
A lot of this is just speculation.  Let's wait for the debate and see the polls the next day.  A lot of people are afraid of Sanders socialism and Biden's weakness.  They see Bloomberg as a "savior" for the party and maybe the guy to "get" Trump.  We'll know more pretty soon. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 19, 2020, 05:08:26 pm
Getting back to Bloomberg overall, this article pretty much sums up my thoughts on him. 

Why Mike Bloomberg is already pandering to the left: Goodwin (https://nypost.com/2020/02/18/why-mike-bloomberg-is-already-pandering-to-the-left-goodwin/)

If Bloomberg went fill tilt, did not care what the left thought of him and just ran on his record unapologetically, I feel he would be a force to reckon with.  But it appears like he is becoming "Bernie Lite," and why go for that when you can have "Bernie Full Strength."  This is the same issue with all of the candidates; they are trying to be kind of woke but kind of normal at the same time. 

It's not going to work, not even for Bloomberg.  Not to mention it destroys his authenticity, the largest positive for both Trump and Bernie.

Some of those authenticities might be best forgotten.

Snag is, when the guy you vote for is not a guy you'd like to introduce to your wife and sister, your vote is also saying something about you, the voter.

Can't have it both ways unless you're the candidate.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 19, 2020, 05:10:15 pm
Some of those authenticities might be best forgotten.

Snag is, when the guy you vote for is not a guy you'd like to introduce to your wife and sister, your vote is also saying something about you, the voter.

Can't have it both ways unless you're the candidate.
We're voting for a president not an in-law.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 20, 2020, 01:27:49 am
Bloomberg fizzled in the debates tonight.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 20, 2020, 04:55:35 am
Bloomberg makes it an unfair election with his limitless money.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 20, 2020, 05:52:09 am
Bloomberg fizzled in the debates tonight.

From outside, it looked like the little lion was attacked by a pack of angry hyenas. Unsurprisingly, they didn't offer anything new, just the same old stuff media enjoys reveling in.

Quote
Michael Bloomberg’s rising presidential campaign got stopped and frisked on Wednesday night by the rest of the Democratic debate field, which piled on the former New York City mayor as he offered contrition for the contentious policing policy. In his first appearance on a presidential debate stage, Bloomberg came under fire from a united front of his five rivals for the policy that led the New York Police Department during his mayoralty to stop and search thousands of residents of color in the city without traditional standards of probable cause.

Bloomberg defended himself from gang-up, though, noting that attitudes have recently changed on criminal justice and that almost every candidate on stage has mixed record on issues of race and policing.
"If we took off everybody that was wrong on this panel, everybody that was wrong on criminal justice at sometime in their careers, there’d be nobody else up here," Bloomberg said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/debate-rivals-hammer-bloomberg-over-stop-frisk-policing-nyc-n1139356
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 20, 2020, 06:36:08 am
From outside, it looked like the little lion was attacked by a pack of angry hyenas. Unsurprisingly, they didn't offer anything new, just the same old stuff media enjoys reveling in.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/debate-rivals-hammer-bloomberg-over-stop-frisk-policing-nyc-n1139356

It's what happens when the gloves are off and you see politicians for what they often are: self-seeking, greedy, ambitious dogs and bitches of yet more bitches. Who needs a manifesto when you can draw blood instead? Much more mileage there!
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 20, 2020, 07:10:15 am
...

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 20, 2020, 07:14:32 am
From outside, it looked like the little lion was attacked by a pack of angry hyenas. Unsurprisingly, they didn't offer anything new, just the same old stuff media enjoys reveling in.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/debate-rivals-hammer-bloomberg-over-stop-frisk-policing-nyc-n1139356

I would certainly agree with this, however the Dems today (really the progressives) seems to be interested in superficial issues that Bloomberg will continued to be hounded about.  I dont think he helped himself but we will see. 

However, I still dont get the strategy of attacking Bloomberg.  Warren and Biden have no chance in winning at this point, so destroying someone who is trying to keep Bernie, a disaster in the making for the party, from winning just boggles me.  It's like the whole Chris Christie going after Rubio in 2016, which everyone knew beforehand was going to destroy Christie's career and damage Rubio (not a front runner at this point) enough to keep him from gaining any ground.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 20, 2020, 09:12:34 am
I did like this zinger, "The best known socialist happens to be a millionaire with three houses."

Finally glad to see someone actually take it to Bernie.  In response to Bernie's answer that many Vermonters have a summer home, I would like to know exactly how many Vermonters do have a main home and a summer home? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 20, 2020, 11:34:18 am
I did like this zinger, "The best known socialist happens to be a millionaire with three houses."

Finally glad to see someone actually take it to Bernie.  In response to Bernie's answer that many Vermonters have a summer home, I would like to know exactly how many Vermonters do have a main home and a summer home?

Hey, Tony Blair, who managed to win several elections in a row representing the face of New Labour, the only electable type left and therefore instantly spurned by the new Commie version under Corbyn (that lost thrice in a row to the Tories, now the extreme right under Boris and those propping him up) - is reputed to have five houses, but I haven't personally counted them, having never even been invited to have tea in one!

There is nothing morally wrong with having more than one home just as long as they don't, together, reach a value of over fifty million squids. If they do, according to my new, enlightened doctrine, one would have to be sold so that you could have some spending cash to tide you through until the end of the fiscal year. You see how well that would recirculate money? What's not to like?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 20, 2020, 12:04:24 pm
Hey, Tony Blair, who managed to win several elections in a row representing the face of New Labour, the only electable type left and therefore instantly spurned by the new Commie version under Corbyn (that lost thrice in a row to the Tories, now the extreme right under Boris and those propping him up) - is reputed to have five houses, but I haven't personally counted them, having never even been invited to have tea in one!

There is nothing morally wrong with having more than one home just as long as they don't, together, reach a value of over fifty million squids. If they do, according to my new, enlightened doctrine, one would have to be sold so that you could have some spending cash to tide you through until the end of the fiscal year. You see how well that would recirculate money? What's not to like?

I don't care that he has 3 houses.  I care that he is promoting a system that vilifies people for having three houses, while exempting himself and his cronies, which is how socialism always ends. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 20, 2020, 12:08:25 pm
I don't care that he has 3 houses.  I care that he is promoting a system that vilifies people for having three houses, while exempting himself and his cronies, which is how socialism always ends.

Don't be silly, Joe: that's pragmatism.

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 20, 2020, 12:26:28 pm
I did like this zinger, "The best known socialist happens to be a millionaire with three houses."

Finally glad to see someone actually take it to Bernie.  In response to Bernie's answer that many Vermonters have a summer home, I would like to know exactly how many Vermonters do have a main home and a summer home?

Last nights debate was amazing.  It was like watching a clown car unload and seeing them running around smacking each other with foam hammers!

The dems have a real problem.  Its really about Joe and Mike now.  The question will be to see if Mike has legs ( pun intended)  Watching the left leaning cable shows after the debate was really illuminating. They know they have a Bernie problem and Mike really let them down last night. 

No one seems to think any candidate will have the delegates needed for a first round nonimation, so it comes down to super delegates and maybe a white knight riding in at the last second and throwing all of these folksin the dustbin.

I think a really big bag of popcorn will be needed as we watch this play out.

Meanwhile, Trump filled yet another arena with an overflowing crowd.



Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 20, 2020, 12:36:55 pm
I don't care that he has 3 houses.  I care that he is promoting a system that vilifies people for having three houses, while exempting himself and his cronies, which is how socialism always ends. 
+1
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 20, 2020, 12:37:40 pm
Meanwhile, Trump filled yet another arena with an overflowing crowd.
And was apparently incoherent.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-rally-twitter-roger-stone-sentence-pardon-2020-election-rally-phoenix-arizona-a9345956.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 20, 2020, 12:45:00 pm
And was apparently incoherent.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-rally-twitter-roger-stone-sentence-pardon-2020-election-rally-phoenix-arizona-a9345956.html

So says a UK paper.  Did you listen?  I didn't so I can't comment. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 21, 2020, 10:43:28 am
I think this piece pretty much hits the nail on the head when it comes to the Dems. 

Newt Gingrich: 2 winners and 1 big loser in Democratic presidential debate (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/newt-gingrich-2-winners-and-1-big-loser-in-democratic-presidential-candidate-debate)

Every so often in the ad world, you may get asked the question, why did that bad product fail so fast with all that great marketing?  Well, because the marketing really was that great!  Bloomberg is fitting this trend; his marketing was so good people were expecting a real leader.  Then, when an apologetic intern showed up instead, his fall from grace was that much higher. 

It also seems like Bernie's digital brown shirt gang is doing exactly what his ideal Mussolini's did, scarring the entirety of the Dems and the media from asking him hard questions.  This may work in the primary, but in the General, with Trump, who is not a coward, will really kill him.  You can tell by how unprepared he was from the "3 houses" comment.  He has been protected this whole time and when Trump brings out the hammer, he will have not developed any real protection from it. 

If I were the Dems, I would be worried shi#less about a Bernie candidacy. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 21, 2020, 03:40:46 pm
Pigeons campaign for Trump in Nevada.  M.A.G.A.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1138556
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 21, 2020, 04:52:23 pm
Bloomberg blinks.  Doesn't say very much about his balls when the sh!t hits the fan as president and he's under pressure by some adversarial foreign government.   

Bloomberg Says 3 Women Can Be Released From NDAs
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/02/21/us/politics/ap-us-election-2020-bloomberg.html?searchResultPosition=3
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 21, 2020, 05:17:16 pm
Fair WARNING: this is NOT, and I repeat NOT, a Babylon Bee or The Onion article:

"BLOOMBERG TO PAY HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE $2,500 A MONTH TO PRAISE HIM ON THEIR PERSONAL SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS"

https://www.newsweek.com/michael-bloomberg-2020-election-pays-social-media-users-advertising-text-social-media-1488213?fbclid=IwAR1EEvcpUtFcccOiRsdI6zANX7ohhysr8zOsZQz5wn6wGwJZS1g7WtH3sFY
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 21, 2020, 05:48:44 pm
Democrats removed only American flag on stage before debates for the president of the United States. . Did you read about it anywhere in mainstream news?  This is why Trump has the support he does.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1230612612934709250
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 21, 2020, 06:17:36 pm
This is why Trump has the support he does.
Less than half of the country.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 21, 2020, 06:41:05 pm
"BLOOMBERG TO PAY HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE $2,500 A MONTH TO PRAISE HIM ON THEIR PERSONAL SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS"

https://www.newsweek.com/michael-bloomberg-2020-election-pays-social-media-users-advertising-text-social-media-1488213?fbclid=IwAR1EEvcpUtFcccOiRsdI6zANX7ohhysr8zOsZQz5wn6wGwJZS1g7WtH3sFY

Is this gig available only to US citizens or also to international commentators?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 21, 2020, 07:26:07 pm
Less than half of the country.
Actually, it is more than half the country.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 21, 2020, 07:44:23 pm
Actually, it is more than half the country.

According to which poll?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 21, 2020, 07:45:58 pm
Is this gig available only to US citizens or also to international commentators?

I can see it in the Netherlands, so I suppose international.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 21, 2020, 07:50:15 pm
Democrats removed only American flag on stage before debates for the president of the United States. . Did you read about it anywhere in mainstream news?  This is why Trump has the support he does.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1230612612934709250

OMG. Don't tell me you get your information from Twitter ...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 21, 2020, 08:48:31 pm
Democrats removed only American flag on stage before debates for the president of the United States. . Did you read about it anywhere in mainstream news?  This is why Trump has the support he does.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1230612612934709250

emplyed but still not enough money to earn a living...
The complicated truth behind Trump’s ‘American comeback'
Quote
Corin Kealoha and Shaun Karagory both work full time - but cannot afford food without the help of a food bank.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51578045
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 21, 2020, 11:25:02 pm
OMG. Don't tell me you get your information from Twitter ...
No I don;t have twitter.  I got the link from a web page.   Is there something wrong about twitter?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 21, 2020, 11:32:34 pm
emplyed but still not enough money to earn a living...
The complicated truth behind Trump’s ‘American comeback'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51578045
I'm sure there will be  a lot of these kind of stories from the anti-Trump press between now and the election.  You guys are obviously really worried about the economy doing so well.  With more people employed, there will be less acceptance of a socialist president and agenda that the Democrats are pushing. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 21, 2020, 11:41:36 pm
Less than half of the country.
Frank, Even Americans who may like socialist policies are patriotic.  They don't like when the country is besmirched or the flag disrespected.  It's this kind of attitude like calling Americans "deplorables" they helped Clinton lose the election.  But the real left can't help themselves.  They talk patriotism, but then fall back into their disrespect of the country.   Spitting on the flag loses votes. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 12:17:41 am
Will anti-Trump media give him any credit if he ends Afghan war and he brings American troops home?

U.S. and Taliban set to sign peace deal after 7-day truce in Afghanistan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ1vj-qqqqM
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 22, 2020, 04:03:07 am
Is there something wrong about twitter?

That really does have to be one of the funniest (and, I trust, rhetorical) questions I've read in a long while.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 22, 2020, 04:03:47 am
Four "ignored" posts in a straight must be some kind of a record!

Congratulations on the writing of, and, most importantly, on the "ignoring"!

Hope it's lentajas again today, but I doubt it - different eatery today: just opened for the summer season, and so I must go show my appreciation. (I am studying to become a supreme leader - somewhere. Lesson #1: it is essential to be visibly nice to people.) I hope the food isn't kept over from last year; times is gonna be tough, wot wiv Brexit an' all.

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 22, 2020, 07:33:18 am
That really does have to be one of the funniest (and, I trust, rhetorical) questions I've read in a long while.

Jeremy

+1000
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 09:20:03 am
That really does have to be one of the funniest (and, I trust, rhetorical) questions I've read in a long while.

Jeremy
Well, I don;t know how to use twitter.   Does Trump?   It seems more difficult than forums.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 09:50:39 am
Trump was brilliant for getting us out of this mess.  Had he left troops to support the Kurds, the same people criticizing him then for not doing it would be criticizing him now for exposing America to more conflict, dead Americans, and "winging it".  Of course the "fake news" press will bury these current issues on page 47 rather than showing Americans how prescient he was.  If I knew how to do it, I would tweet him to let him know what a great job he's doing.  :)

Turkey And Russia Fight It Out: Is This The End Of The Road For Erdogan?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2020/02/21/turkey-and-russia-fight-it-out-is-this-the-end-of-the-road-for-erdogan/#d8996913e0b8
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 22, 2020, 09:53:41 am
My favorite part of this whole slow motion train wreck is how the Bernie lead is exposing the media even more. 

Saw a clip of major reporters from major networks saying, "if Bernie wins the primary we will loose the election."  Really, "we?"  I thought they were suppose to be unbiased. 

Well, you guys bought this ticket by trying to be "Bernie lite," and it is looking like you guys are going to take the ride. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 10:09:20 am
I listened to an interview twenty years ago with Sanders pushing his socialist/Marxist views.  He was and is a very impressive speaker and debater. He makes everything sound reasonable and good.  Yet, he's very tough, not like your Uncle Louie like he comes off as.  People underestimated Trump.  We shouldn't underestimate Sanders. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 22, 2020, 10:35:32 am
Oh, I'm worried, and I am not underestimating.

And I think we as capitalist need to start lobbying the school boards to teach more on communism and how it is just as bad, if not worse, then nazism. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 22, 2020, 10:55:45 am
Okay, I got to give it to Mike for this, this is great. 

I'm The Only One Who Started a Business (https://twitter.com/MikeBloomberg/status/1230515129877434368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Fcnn-msnbc-bloomberg-disinformation)

Love the sound of crickets in the background. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 22, 2020, 11:06:37 am
Okay, I got to give it to Mike for this, this is great. 

I'm The Only One Who Started a Business (https://twitter.com/MikeBloomberg/status/1230515129877434368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Fcnn-msnbc-bloomberg-disinformation)

Love the sound of crickets in the background.

What a great if not totally deceptive edit :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 22, 2020, 12:36:54 pm
Okay, I got to give it to Mike for this, this is great. 

I'm The Only One Who Started a Business (https://twitter.com/MikeBloomberg/status/1230515129877434368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Fcnn-msnbc-bloomberg-disinformation)

Love the sound of crickets in the background.

Very creative and effective. I like it, especially after listening to TOO MUCH talking and yelling.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 22, 2020, 01:41:19 pm
What a great if not totally deceptive edit :)

Maybe so but Mike B's statement is true.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 22, 2020, 01:47:02 pm
Maybe so but Mike B's statement is true.

Peter

Oh yea he did start a business and none of the others did.  The truth ends there.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 22, 2020, 02:21:39 pm
 ;D

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 02:59:51 pm
Oh, I'm worried, and I am not underestimating.

And I think we as capitalist need to start lobbying the school boards to teach more on communism and how it is just as bad, if not worse, then nazism. 
Good background article on Sanders support of Communist governments. I thought it was interesting during the debate when Warren objected as much as Sanders when Bloomberg called Sanders a Communist.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/will-sanders-long-ago-praise-socialist-regimes-hurt-democrats-november-n1139811

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 03:04:40 pm
Even the article I posted above is part fake news because the headline calls the USSR, CUBA and Nicaragua socialist and not communist as they were.  They refuse to label Sanders a Communist sympathizer which is what he was and is.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 04:32:35 pm
Nevada Caucus 2020: Live Results Updates
It’s still early, but Sanders leads Biden by 16.2 percentage points with 1 percent of precincts reporting. For the latest updates, follow our live blog.
1% reporting
Candidate   Total C.C.D.s*   Pct.   
Bernie Sanders
84   46.9%   
Joseph R. Biden Jr.
55   30.7   
Tom Steyer
20   11.2   
Pete Buttigieg
9   5.0   
Elizabeth Warren
9   5.0   
Others
2   1.1   
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 22, 2020, 05:04:27 pm
Oh yea he did start a business and none of the others did.  The truth ends there.


But not the symbolism. Lot's of people only talk and do nothing. They are everywhere.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 22, 2020, 05:11:55 pm
Nevada Caucus 2020: Live Results Updates
It’s still early, but Sanders leads Biden by 16.2 percentage points with 1 percent of precincts reporting. For the latest updates, follow our live blog.

It's way too early to draw any conclusions.
When the day is done, Buttigieg will show better numbers than reported in that early 1% count. And Bloomberg seems to be gathering more momentum.

Quote
Longtime Republican Clint Eastwood is pulling support from Donald Trump in the 2020 election. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, the actor-director signaled that he thinks a different candidate would be the better choice. "The best thing we could do is just get Mike Bloomberg in there," he said.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 22, 2020, 05:16:37 pm
Oh yea he did start a business and none of the others did.  The truth ends there.

I agree...

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 05:42:39 pm
What's interesting is Bloomberg created a blind trust during the 12 years he was mayor of NYC.  During that time, his wealth increased from $5 billion to $35 billion.  So maybe we should elect as president the person he hired to run his business? 

Of course, there's lots of speculation that he really was working secretly behind the scenes and didn't reveal that it was a blind trust in name only.  So what does that mean relating to his promise to set up a blind trust if he wins the presidency.  Either he isn't the businessman he claims.  Or he lied about his blind trust.  Which is it?  I'd love for someone to ask this question in his next debate. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 05:56:10 pm
Nevada settles delegate voting ties the Las Vegas way.  With a deck of cards.  High card wins the delegates.  Frankly, they should do it with a gun duel.  That way we won't have to hear from the loser again. 
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/nevada-caucus-02-22#nevada-caucus-card-draw
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 22, 2020, 06:54:28 pm
What's interesting is Bloomberg created a blind trust during the 12 years he was mayor of NYC.  During that time, his wealth increased from $5 billion to $35 billion.   

That would be an excellent record for any business. Obviously he knew how to pick his people and he wasn't firing them after a few months.
But the main thing was that he was hired to run NYC, and he did a good job there, too.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 22, 2020, 07:52:11 pm
Even the article I posted above is part fake news because the headline calls the USSR, CUBA and Nicaragua socialist and not communist as they were.  They refuse to label Sanders a Communist sympathizer which is what he was and is.

How's that?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 22, 2020, 09:24:40 pm
Currently Bernie has 50% of the vote in NV with Biden in 2nd place at 17%

Yep, if the night ends even close to this, the Dems are screwed.  Bernie will win this thing and then the Dems are going to have to defend an devote communist.  Good luck with that! 

Maybe, maybe if Amy or Mayor Pete came in 2nd, a "moderate" would have a chance, but with Biden coming in 2nd, this shows the non-radicals in the party have no idea what they want and more then likely no one will be able to consolidate that lane.  Even after Bloomberg gets in, with Biden getting this decent of a result, he has no reason to drop out and will just continue to clog up the lane with everyone else.  That combined with the total stupidity of all of the moderate candidates deciding to attack Bloomberg instead of the front runner, Bernie, pretty much cements this thing. 

Hello to a majority of states' legislatures being republican in a redistricting year.  Bring on the gerrymandering.  And I'm being serious!  If the Dems decide to put a communist on the ticket, I feel they should have no say what so ever in any kind of decision making. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 11:30:56 pm
How's that?
Sanders is a Communist.  A Bolshevik. A Marxist. Just to be clear.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 22, 2020, 11:42:19 pm
Currently Bernie has 50% of the vote in NV with Biden in 2nd place at 17%

Yep, if the night ends even close to this, the Dems are screwed.  Bernie will win this thing and then the Dems are going to have to defend an devote communist.  Good luck with that! 

Maybe, maybe if Amy or Mayor Pete came in 2nd, a "moderate" would have a chance, but with Biden coming in 2nd, this shows the non-radicals in the party have no idea what they want and more then likely no one will be able to consolidate that lane.  Even after Bloomberg gets in, with Biden getting this decent of a result, he has no reason to drop out and will just continue to clog up the lane with everyone else.  That combined with the total stupidity of all of the moderate candidates deciding to attack Bloomberg instead of the front runner, Bernie, pretty much cements this thing. 

Hello to a majority of states' legislatures being republican in a redistricting year.  Bring on the gerrymandering.  And I'm being serious!  If the Dems decide to put a communist on the ticket, I feel they should have no say what so ever in any kind of decision making. 
Be careful what you wish for.  You may get it.  Sanders has charisma.  He's very smart.  He has the right words down that gets him supporters. Sanders has a core belief unlike the other candidates who just want to be president and would sell their mothers and change their positions to get elected.  Voters see that.  He could win a presidency just as Trump the outsider did.

I don't think he'll get a nomination majority.  And I agree with you the Democratic insiders will try to screw him at a brokered convention.  What's interesting is how Americans have turned to outsiders and anti-establishment types like Sanders and Trump on different sides of the political and economic spectrums.  People who want to throw out the insiders who they feel screwed them much like the Brits with Brexit.  I don't think they care much about politics, just that they're opposed to the system.  It's dangerous because anything can happen. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 23, 2020, 05:34:14 am
Another one in the Clintons' orbit successfully suicided  ;)

https://www.foxnews.com/us/philip-haney-dhs-whistleblower-during-obama-era-found-dead-police-say

(Bold mine)

Quote
In June 2016, Haney testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee, where he alleged that the Obama-era DHS had ordered him to delete hundreds of files about reputed associates of Islamic terrorist groups. Haney made the case that several attacks in the U.S. could have been prevented if some of the files had not been deleted,

Quote
"Most Americans were unaware of the enormous damage to morale at the Department of Homeland Security, where I worked, his condemnation caused," Haney wrote, referring to Obama. "His words infuriated many of us because we knew his administration had been engaged in a bureaucratic effort to destroy the raw material — the actual intelligence we had collected for years, and erase those dots. The dots constitute the intelligence needed to keep Americans safe, and the Obama administration was ordering they be wiped away."

Quote
Haney, who worked for DHS for about 15 years, was also the author of "See Something, Say Nothing: A Homeland Security Officer Exposes the Government's Submission to Jihad."

In November, Haney contacted the Examiner about plans to publish a sequel to the book, the newspaper reported.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 23, 2020, 07:30:26 am
Be careful what you wish for.  You may get it.  Sanders has charisma.  He's very smart.  He has the right words down that gets him supporters. Sanders has a core belief unlike the other candidates who just want to be president and would sell their mothers and change their positions to get elected.  Voters see that.  He could win a presidency just as Trump the outsider did.

I don't think he'll get a nomination majority.  And I agree with you the Democratic insiders will try to screw him at a brokered convention.  What's interesting is how Americans have turned to outsiders and anti-establishment types like Sanders and Trump on different sides of the political and economic spectrums.  People who want to throw out the insiders who they feel screwed them much like the Brits with Brexit.  I don't think they care much about politics, just that they're opposed to the system.  It's dangerous because anything can happen.

I'm not wishing for it.  Although I am fairly sure it will be a complete disator for the Dems, I still don't want to take the chance when we could have a real communist as president. 

With that being said though, pretty much every red state would vote for Trump still, period.  Trump is already running away with it in WI, regardless of the candidate.  Bernie cant win FL; the Cuban ex-patriots will not vote for a communist and someone who supported Fidel, and the Jewish population wont vote for someone, even a Jew, who hangs out with anti-semites and supports BDS & Palestinians.  Bernie's open border, free healthcare for Illegals & destruction of ICE pretty much dooms him in all border states.  One of the two biggest industries in PA is natural gas fracking and health insurance, and with Bernie's plans PA does not look like a winning state.  NH is filled with low tax people, so NH may vote Trump (it was real close last time).  The Green New Deal is probably going to take Michigan off the table for Bernie just because it would destroy the auto industry.  VA just may turn back to red, especially after the gun rights issues going on in the state. 

So I think there is a greater chance of Trump trancing Bernie with a 40+ state win and the house going red again.  But to be honest, I dont want to take this chance with a communist, especially with the Corona Virus screwing up major supply chains that could hit the economy. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 23, 2020, 08:16:07 am
“Socialists ignore the side of man that is of the spirit ... they can provide shelter, fill your belly with bacon and beans, treat you when you’re ill – all the things that are guaranteed to a prisoner or a slave. But they don’t understand we also dream, yes, even of owning a yacht.”  Regan. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 23, 2020, 08:20:09 am
The Dems are panicking. They know they've gotta find a way to stop Bernie. Maybe Bernie will "suicide" as Philip Haney just did.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 23, 2020, 08:36:12 am
The Dems are panicking. They know they've gotta find a way to stop Bernie. Maybe Bernie will "suicide" as Philip Haney just did.

I am just beyond perplexed with how they did not see this coming.  They all, like every single Democrat, tried to siphon Bernie supporters by being Bernie lite, and then they are surprised when Bernie starts winning?  ???

And on top of that, nearly all of the mainstream media goes light on Dems, protecting all of them, and not asking Bernie a single hard question, so how could you see his support being questioned.  ???

Even Mit Romney predicted this would happen a couple of weeks after Trump won in 2016.  It was so obvious to see coming.  They bought this ticket, and they get to ride the train straight off a cliff. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 23, 2020, 10:38:11 am
What will be a "tell" that Sanders is being opposed by the media is when the liberal cable stations like MSNBC and CNN and other news media like the NY Times and Washington Post start complaining about him.  When the commentators start talking nervously about him winning.  After all, they're all rich because of Trump.  If Trump goes away in 2021, no one's going to watch cable.  Their salaries are going away.  Add to that a collapse in the stock market of 20-30% and the fear that the cable companies themselves may be governmentized a la Venezuela.  OK.  That won;t happen.  There are too many congressmen and senators who would oppose.  But you never know what might happen and they're going to be on the short end of the stick just like everyone else.  And you overseas guys who can't wait for a Sanders, what do you think is going to happen to your stock markets when America's drops 20-30%?  Kiss your Summer Camp home goodbye. 

You may hear things like: "Well, after thinking about it, Trump isn;t such a bad guy after all.  We're not at war.  AFghanistan may be at peace. NK is quiet.  ISIS is gone.  Economy is booming.  I've doubled my salary in 4 years on CNN. What's not to like.  So what if he has a big mouth? He's from New York City.  They're all like that.  Maybe Bernie should sit this one out."
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 23, 2020, 05:01:51 pm
London is covered with dire warning signs about US politics:
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Chris Kern on February 23, 2020, 06:00:13 pm
London is covered with dire warning signs about US politics:

Fair point: Americans are increasingly polarized.  And Vladimir Putin and the Russian G.R.U. clearly don't mind the gap.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 23, 2020, 06:09:42 pm
London is covered with dire warning signs about US politics:

In Canada, when you look at the landscape scenes from the US border, even trees lean to the right. But some environmentalists blame on the prevailing winds.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 24, 2020, 08:37:27 am
Your front runner ladies and gentlemen. 

"We're very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba but you know, it's unfair to simply say everything is bad. You know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?" Sanders told Anderson Cooper.

Yep, I guess you want those whom you are about to execute without a trial to be able to read those made-up charges. 

For anyone who actually thinks Sanders could implement a socialist government without it becoming authoritarian, I would recommend reading The Road to Serfdom
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 24, 2020, 08:41:34 am
Your front runner ladies and gentlemen. 

"We're very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba but you know, it's unfair to simply say everything is bad. You know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?" Sanders told Anderson Cooper.

Yep, I guess you want those whom you are about to execute without a trial to be able to read those made-up charges. 

For anyone who actually thinks Sanders could implement a socialist government without it becoming authoritarian, I would recommend reading The Road to Serfdom
Cuba taught everyone to read at the same time burned books and made it illegal to read books they didn't approve of.  You lost your right of free speech.  If you read books the regime did not approve of, Castro would break your legs.  But that's OK.  After all they would take care of your broken legs with free medical care. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 24, 2020, 08:47:54 am
Prevailing winds are West to East meaning they (the trees) bend to the left looking south from Canada and bend to the right looking north to Canada from the US. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: petermfiore on February 24, 2020, 08:48:08 am
In Canada, when you look at the landscape scenes from the US border, even trees lean to the right. But some environmentalists blame on the prevailing winds.

That would mean looking at Canada from the US the trees lean to the left.......I would say it's all from your point of view.

Peter
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: kers on February 24, 2020, 08:54:54 am
In Canada, when you look at the landscape scenes from the US border, even trees lean to the right. But some environmentalists blame on the prevailing winds.
On the border the trees look straight.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: RSL on February 24, 2020, 09:29:23 am
I am just beyond perplexed with how they did not see this coming.  They all, like every single Democrat, tried to siphon Bernie supporters by being Bernie lite, and then they are surprised when Bernie starts winning?  ???

And on top of that, nearly all of the mainstream media goes light on Dems, protecting all of them, and not asking Bernie a single hard question, so how could you see his support being questioned.  ???

Even Mit Romney predicted this would happen a couple of weeks after Trump won in 2016.  It was so obvious to see coming.  They bought this ticket, and they get to ride the train straight off a cliff.

You gotta remember, Joe: these are not the brightest bulbs in the room.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 24, 2020, 10:10:37 am
Dow down over 700 points due to Coronavirus.  This could set off a recession that would not be good for anyone including Trump.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/dow-plunges-950-points-fears-coronavirus-will-tank-global-economic-n1141546
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 24, 2020, 10:16:45 am
Dow down over 700 points due to Coronavirus.  This could set off a recession that would not be good for anyone including Trump.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/dow-plunges-950-points-fears-coronavirus-will-tank-global-economic-n1141546

Yes, certainly, and just what we need when a communist looks like may be one of the options. 

But then again, Trump could argue that he was right to call for ending relationships with China.  They have handled this horribly and have not been transparent at all. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 24, 2020, 10:35:50 am
Dow down over 700 points due to Coronavirus.  This could set off a recession that would not be good for anyone including Trump.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/dow-plunges-950-points-fears-coronavirus-will-tank-global-economic-n1141546


It was bound to happen given the spread of the Coronavirus and the fact that China is basically shut down.  They are the supply chain for the world...sadly.  I read and article the other day, can't remember where, that said China had stopped export of all n95 masks and had nationalized an American company who made them. 

Its gonna get worse before it gets better, I think.

Look at this footage of people in South Korea in line to buy masks...Im amazed how orderly they are, I suspect it would be a riot in the USA in certain areas.

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/preview/mol/2020/02/24/3705359263580469802/636x382_MP4_3705359263580469802.mp4

Article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8037595/Coronavirus-Thousands-queue-buy-face-masks-South-Korea.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 24, 2020, 10:37:35 am
I'm sure the Dems and Sanders are keeping their fingers crossed the virus tanks the economy. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 24, 2020, 10:52:11 am
The markets in Europe are worse.  Double lower than America's.
https://money.cnn.com/data/world_markets/americas/
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 24, 2020, 11:21:00 am
Melania and Donald will be making a bid to buy the Taj Mahal for her.  Or he'll build her a new one if India refuses.
https://nypost.com/2020/02/24/donald-and-melania-trump-marvel-at-taj-mahal-during-india-tour/
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 24, 2020, 11:32:05 am
On the border the trees look straight.

Strange; I thought that they were either all borderline falling towards one or falling away!

That's politics for you: screws everything until you don't know if you're coming or going. Just like a bad girlfriend might be... I'm sure that I remember a southern song about that, but just for Slobodan's sensitive nature, I shall sit on it for now.

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 24, 2020, 12:57:47 pm
... you don't know if you're coming or going. Just like a bad girlfriend might be... I'm sure that I remember a southern song about that, but just for Slobodan's sensitive nature, I shall sit on it for now.

Rob, this is much more palatable for my taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QirsBCrXNI0

 ;)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 24, 2020, 02:46:07 pm
That's what my son used to listen to when he was a kid. I couldn't stand it.

Fortunately for both of us, I was mostly working in the studio or stuck in a darkroom listening to my own stuff; my wife disliked both our son's crap as well as my kind of music. We had a mutual connection in Sinatra and Jerry Lee Lewis: she liked the latter's C&W material and so did I, though I preferred the early Stones and the Beach Boys and, of course, Chuck most of all.

:-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 24, 2020, 02:50:08 pm
This race is very quickly going from a referendum on Trump to a referendum on Bernie. 

Even far left wing commentators, like Chris Matthews, are starting to talk about how bad this is. 

Down ballot Dems in purple or weak districts are shaking.  Needing to both defend their impeachment vote and communist Bernie is a giant gift to the republicans. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 24, 2020, 02:56:58 pm
I have a friend who is not exactly a card-carrying Democrat, and maybe not even a Democrat, but who would support Biden vs. Trump.

He sent me this yesterday:

"I can't believe i might have to vote for trump in the fall. I am vomiting in my mouth."

:)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 24, 2020, 03:12:09 pm
I have a friend who is not exactly a card-carrying Democrat, and maybe not even a Democrat, but who would support Biden vs. Trump.

He sent me this yesterday:

"I can't believe i might have to vote for trump in the fall. I am vomiting in my mouth."

:)
If you own stock, or a retirement plan, how could you vote for a guy who will make it drop 20-30% when he takes office and lose thousands?  Well, he hasn't won yet.  The insider Dems will screw him out of it at the convention.  Although I don;t know who would take his place? 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: JoeKitchen on February 24, 2020, 03:16:53 pm
Well don't expect Bloomberg.  His campaign is going around apologizing today for that great video they put out last week on the "I'm the only one who started a business."  What a weakling he is showing himself to be. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 24, 2020, 03:19:55 pm
Well don't expect Bloomberg.  His campaign is going around apologizing today for that great video they put out last week on the "I'm the only one who started a business."  What a weakling he is showing himself to be. 
Biden's also weak compared to Sanders.  Bernie may be a socialist, but he'd cut your heart out in a Soviet minute.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 26, 2020, 04:09:28 am
Here are the Bernie Bros that are supporting the delusionary budget proposal:

"New report finds only 16% of millennials qualify as ‘financially literate’"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-new-report-finds-only-16-of-millennials-qualify-at-financially-literate-195635534.html

Quote
For a new report on financial literacy, Americans were asked three “very fundamental questions” to test financial literacy.

Among millennials, only 16% correctly answered all three.

Now, who can blame them? The questions were really hard, rocket-science type:

Quote
1) Suppose you had $100 in a savings account, and the interest rate was 2% per year. After 5 years, how much do you think you would have in the account if you left the money to grow? Answers: a) More than $102; b) Exactly $102; c) Less than $102; d) Do not know; e) Refuse to answer.

2) Imagine that the interest rate on your savings account was 1% per year and inflation was 2% per year. After 1 year, how much would you be able to buy with the money in this account? Answers: a) More than today; b) Exactly the same; c) Less than today; d) Do not know; e) Refuse to answer.

3) Please tell me whether this statement is true or false. “Buying a single company’s stock usually provides a safer return than a stock mutual fund.” Answers: a) True; b) False; c) Do not know; d) Refuse to answer.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 26, 2020, 07:46:50 am
Here are the Bernie Bros that are supporting the delusionary budget proposal:

"New report finds only 16% of millennials qualify as ‘financially literate’"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-new-report-finds-only-16-of-millennials-qualify-at-financially-literate-195635534.html

Now, who can blame them? The questions were really hard, rocket-science type:

They're not as stupid as the study suggests.  They all know when a politician is offering them something for free. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on February 26, 2020, 03:50:44 pm
They're not as stupid as the study suggests.  They all know when a politician is offering them something for free.
When you are living paycheck to paycheck, there is no reason to have learned about anything in the survey.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 26, 2020, 03:56:37 pm
When you are living paycheck to paycheck, there is no reason to have learned about anything in the survey.

So ignorance is bliss? That's the problem with democracy.  You have greedy dopes voting. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 26, 2020, 07:23:16 pm
When you are living paycheck to paycheck, there is no reason to have learned about anything in the survey.

That's such an ignorant comment. Are you saying 84% of millennial live paycheck to paycheck? Even if so, let's see:

Regular monthly expenses covered by the paycheck would include:

- student loans
- car lease or finance
- possibly mortgage
- credit card bills
- etc.

Not to mention Payday Loans.

All of the above require basic understanding of compounded interest and interest calc in general.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 27, 2020, 02:48:46 pm
Dems planning on screwing Bernie.
https://news.google.com/s/CBIw0rzm8UQ?r=12&oc=em
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on February 27, 2020, 02:54:31 pm
Dems planning on screwing Bernie.
https://news.google.com/s/CBIw0rzm8UQ?r=12&oc=em

Either that or letting Bernie screw America.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 27, 2020, 03:00:00 pm
My anti-trump poker friends are really worried. They can't vote for Bernie because he's too radical. They might like Bloomberg because he seems to be a manager type even though he's really a Republican. They're really beside themselves. It's really funny watching them squirm since Sanders has been winning. They can't believe they might be stuck with Trump for another 4 years. If they didn't have their money in the stock market, they would pray the coronavirus would sink it.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on February 27, 2020, 05:04:36 pm
...  If they didn't have their money in the stock market, they would pray the coronavirus would sink it.

They got their wish

Quote
View in browser | nytimes.com
The New York Times
 
BREAKING NEWS
Global markets fearful of the spread of the coronavirus tumbled for a sixth day, dragging the S&P 500 down more than 10 percent in just a week.
Thursday, February 27, 2020 4:07 PM EST

The S&P 500 fell 4.4 percent on Thursday, the worst single day slide for the market since August 2011. The index is on pace for its worst weekly performance since the 2008 financial crisis. Stocks in Europe and Asia were also hard hit on Thursday
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 27, 2020, 08:27:33 pm
Coronavirus is already calming down in China.  That tells me it's fortunately not going to be as bad as predictions.  Democrats are going to be disappointed when the stock markets recover rather quickly. 

China no longer world’s ‘greatest concern’ amid coronavirus crisis, WHO says
https://nypost.com/2020/02/27/china-no-longer-worlds-greatest-concern-amid-coronavirus-crisis-who-says/
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on February 28, 2020, 04:07:11 am
They got their wish


Somebody, somewhere, will say it's fake news.

From my semi-impressionable youth, some of it spent incarcerated in a Baptist-run boarding school, I seem to remember something about the end of the world being flagged up by Jerusalem being surrounded by wars and rumours of wars, and a great pestilence coming down...

Sell your remaining stock, buy a boat. Oh, and some violet oil.

Rob
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on February 28, 2020, 04:42:57 am
Somebody, somewhere, will say it's fake news.

Yes, all of it ...

Quote
S&P 500 stages quickest correction since the Great Depression
Junk bond funds suffer worst outflows in more than a year
Investors dump high-yield ETFs
Saudi Arabia seeks bigger oil cut as coronavirus slashes demand
Kingdom pushes for deeper Opec reductions in face of crude price slump
Volatility index hits highest level since 2011 ‘flash crash’
Wall Street’s ‘fear gauge’ is eyeing its biggest weekly rise since the 2008 crisis
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 29, 2020, 10:00:19 am
Trump strengthens his reelection position.  Well, if the anti-Trump press reports the news.

U.S. Signs Peace Deal With Taliban After Nearly 2 Decades Of War In Afghanistan
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/29/810537586/u-s-signs-peace-deal-with-taliban-after-nearly-2-decades-of-war-in-afghanistan
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 29, 2020, 11:46:55 am
...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 29, 2020, 11:56:38 am
That's funny.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on February 29, 2020, 11:18:20 pm
Big win by Biden weakens rationale for Bloomberg and other moderates.  Democrats start breathing again.  Tuesday primary will be very clarifying.

Decisive South Carolina win puts Biden at front of Democrats' centrist pack
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/29/joe-biden-south-carolina-primary-bernie-sanders
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 01, 2020, 06:16:17 pm
Mary Buttplug quits.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 01:36:11 am
So did Steyer.  There will be more dropping out Wednesday after the big Tuesday primary.  I see Sanders going against Biden but figure the Dems will give it to Biden.   Then Obama will rally the Democrats around Biden for the election and the press will also protect him against Trump just as they're going after Sanders like they've been going after Trump.  The swamp at work.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on March 02, 2020, 01:58:08 pm
Amy Klobuchar is now out as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/us/politics/amy-klobuchar-drops-out.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 02:14:32 pm
The Democrat party insiders have finally read the riot act to the middle of the roaders to open up the middle lane to Biden tp run without competition. They want to screw Bernie again. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 02:16:18 pm
I suspect Bloomberg and Warren will also get on the bus Wednesday after Tuesday's primary. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on March 02, 2020, 02:18:43 pm
The Democrat party insiders have finally read the riot act to the middle of the roaders to open up the middle lane to Biden tp run without competition. They want to screw Bernie again.
Or candidates, looking at the numbers, came to their own conclusion that they weren't going to win. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 02:28:18 pm
"You know Amy if you get out now rather than waiting for Wednesday, I'll talk to Biden and make sure he considers you to be his vice presidential pick or at least you'll know you'll get Democrats support in the future to keep your seat as senator. I'm sure you going to do the right thing, honey."
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: faberryman on March 02, 2020, 02:39:38 pm
"You know Amy if you get out now rather than waiting for Wednesday, I'll talk to Biden and make sure he considers you to be his vice presidential pick or at least you'll know you'll get Democrats support in the future to keep your seat as senator. I'm sure you going to do the right thing, honey."
Honey?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 04:15:16 pm
Honey?
Yes.  To let her know who's really in charge.  Not her.  The guy on the other end of the call. 

Trump is probably the only person in 50 years who challenged the powers that be and won.  First the Republican insiders tried to destroy him.  Then the Democrats with the dossier, FISA, FBI, Russia, taxes, emoluments, impeachment, and now Coronavirus.  And the press has been the ones who have been shooting at him for those powers.   I'm not sure if he'll be able to hold them off this election.  But he'll go down fighting or win again.  We'll soon see.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 02, 2020, 04:32:05 pm
... They want to screw Bernie again. 

Not if Biden gets more delegate votes in primary, before the convention. Asking others to drop is a legitimate primary strategy. Screwing Bernie would happen if he gets the majority, but still doesn’t win the nomination, due to some behind-the-scenes machinations via superdelegates.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 04:35:16 pm
Not if Biden gets more delegate votes in primary, before the convention. Asking others to drop is a legitimate primary strategy. Screwing Bernie would happen if he gets the majority, but still doesn’t win the nomination, due to some behind-the-scenes machinations via superdelegates.
My point is that the powers that be in the Democrat party are out to destroy him and not let their own people decide by democratic voting in the primaries.    They're stacking the deck against him.  Ganging up on him.  Insiders in the swamp care less what the average Democrat thinks. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 04:40:08 pm
Then, at a brokered convention, they'll be able to better justify why they're giving the nod to Biden as their pick to run for president.  They'll have to tread very carefully.  Trump is going to be saying how Bernie's getting screwed to aggravate his supporters so they don;t come out to vote for Biden.  Obama will of course come out at the convention  to rally them to support Biden, which I suspect most will do in the end, or stay home.  It's a risky strategy for them.  But the alternative is probably a loss against Trump or if Bernie actually won, he wouldn;t owe them anything any more than Trump owed the republican party after his one-hand win. 
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 09:32:52 pm
Or candidates, looking at the numbers, came to their own conclusion that they weren't going to win. Not everything is a conspiracy.
So in quick succession, Buttigieg, now Klobuchar, and Beto O'Rourke, all coincidentally came out the night before the Tuesday primary to give their support to Biden.  Of course, no one is behind the curtain pulling the strings telling them to do it if they want a future in the Democratic party.  Of course, they told Warren to stay in as she will peel votes from Sanders.  Bloomberg has too much money to tell him anything.  In any case, they don't want to upset him as he promised them to give them all campaign support money to help the rest of the party keep the house and take back the Senate.  Let's all applaud independent but concerted thought. Amazing how they all did this together. :)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on March 02, 2020, 11:28:59 pm
Biden stated that Bloomberg is not a Democrat. Well, not your average Democrat. And that could be a good thing.

Quote
Former Vice President Joe Biden said Michael Bloomberg is not a Democrat after the former New York mayor suggested Biden did not have the kind of experience necessary to be president of the United States.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/politics/mike-bloomberg-joe-biden-not-a-democrat/index.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 02, 2020, 11:54:47 pm
Biden stated that Bloomberg is not a Democrat. Well, not your average Democrat. And that could be a good thing.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/politics/mike-bloomberg-joe-biden-not-a-democrat/index.html
The voting results tomorrow are going to be very interesting. Biden, Bloomberg, and Bernie.  They sound like a vaudeville act, law firm or haberdashery.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 03, 2020, 03:57:05 am
... Biden, Bloomberg, and Bernie.  They sound like a vaudeville act, law firm or haberdashery.

 :D

 Biden, Bloomberg, and Bernie walk into a bar. AOC is already there... the rest is a very bad joke  ;D
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: LesPalenik on March 03, 2020, 04:02:38 am
:D

 Biden, Bloomberg, and Bernie walk into a bar. AOC is already there... the rest is a very bad joke  ;D

Who comes out from the bar?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on March 03, 2020, 04:42:12 am
... AOC is already there... the rest is a very bad joke

[/silly-yellow-faces] used sparingly,can help avoid online misunderstandings. They are no substitute for a distinct lack of wit - not least nor last of which was your recent, pathetic, Buttigeig cheapshot.

Mary Buttplug quits.

In the meantime , back on the ranch ...

Quote
New York congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has delivered an online lesson to Republican Ted Cruz after he questioned her authority to comment on matters of science.

In the aftermath of Donald Trump's decision to appoint vice president Mike Pence to spearhead the administration's response to the coronavirus, many have questioned the move.

Ms Ocasio-Cortez wrote on Twitter: "Mike Pence literally does not believe in science. It is utterly irresponsible to put him in charge of US coronavirus response as the world sits on the cusp of a pandemic.”

Among those to jump to the vice president's defence was Mr Cruz, the right wing Texas senator who is a staunch Christian, and who in 2016 was Mr Pence's first pick for president, before he switched support to Mr Trump.  "As you are speaking as the oracle of science, tell us, what exactly is a Y chromosome," Mr Cruz said to Ms Ocasio-Cortez in the first of a trio of questions.

Ms Ocasio-Cortez, who once worked as a waitress, responded: "Sen Cruz, while I understand you judge people's intelligence by the lowest income they've had, I hold awards from MIT Lincoln Lab &others for accomplishments in microbiology." ...  "Sincerely – an Intel global finalist, a fmr multi-year intern for Sen. Kennedy, a cum laude dual major in Economics & International Relations, a fmr Educational Director for national organisation, Who to you is "just a bartender".

Mud on whose face ?
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 03, 2020, 04:47:18 am
... Mud on whose face ?

It is more about cum (laude) on her face to explain her "accomplishments." When you are a good-looking leftie, it is not that difficult to endear yourself to leftie professors.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Manoli on March 03, 2020, 04:54:03 am
It is more about cum (laude) on her face to explain her "accomplishments." When you are a good-looking leftie, it is not that difficult to endear yourself to leftie professors.

To whit, yet more wit ...
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 03, 2020, 05:08:19 am
To whit, yet more wit ...



Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 03, 2020, 05:11:18 am
Pete's withdrawal is making Biden very gay.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on March 03, 2020, 05:46:13 am
All this, and without an iceberg in sight!

Some threads just die, hoist of their own petard; some linger because of inertia. This one lives of desperation.

;-)
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 03, 2020, 05:51:31 am
... Some threads just die, hoist of their own petard; some linger because of inertia. This one lives of desperation.

Absolutely right, Rob. Desperation to find someone, anyone who could beat Trump in November.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Rob C on March 03, 2020, 05:56:38 am
Absolutely right, Rob. Desperation to find someone, anyone who could beat Trump in November.

You'd think that with all his showbiz connections he'd find some little filly with a riding crop well before November!

Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 03, 2020, 07:29:00 am
This is going to sit real well with owners of 300+ million guns  ;D

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-rally-texas-buttigieg-klobuchar-endorsement
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 03, 2020, 10:02:25 am
Pete's withdrawal is making Biden very gay.
I watched Pete's husband introduce Pete yesterday when he pulled out of the race.  Well, I didn't stay to watch Pete.  In any case, it was the first time I watched and heard Pete's husband.  If Pete had 1/10th the charm and especially the sincerity of his husband, he may still be in the race.  I never believed Pete.  He seemed like a very intelligent debater with no core beliefs other than he wants to be president.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 03, 2020, 10:28:49 am
The left eating its own. Chris Matthews of MSNBC groveled as he resigned under fire by the left. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/media/chris-matthews-retires-msnbc/index.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 03, 2020, 10:33:21 am
The left eating its own. Chris Matthews of MSNBC groveled as he resigned under fire by the left. 

His "guilt"? Paying compliments to what he thought were ladies. Which turned out to be bitches.
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Alan Klein on March 03, 2020, 10:47:46 am
His "guilt"? Paying compliments to what he thought were ladies. Which turned out to be bitches.

Here was his comment. 

Bassett recalled Matthews saying things like "Why haven't I fallen in love with you yet?" and other "gross and inappropriate" comments.

That's where he screwed up.  He should have said, "I fell in love with you the first day I met you."  If he said that, he'd still have his job.  :)
Flirting is becoming like film. 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/media/chris-matthews-retires-msnbc/index.html
Title: Re: Democrat Nomination for President
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on March 03, 2020, 11:42:16 am
Some threads just die, hoist of their own petard; some linger because of inertia. This one lives of desperation.

Not any more.

If there's to be a reasoned discussion on this topic, it can happen here. If it's to be garbage as has been posted in this thread, it can't.

Jeremy