Democrat Nomination for President

[LesPalenik]

Les, I already reported the results last night at 1030pm in another thread even before Buttigieg.  Maybe I should run as I seem to be able to get things done as well.  OK.  My results percentages were slightly different.  But pretty close and I got the order of winners correct.  OK.  I stole them from the NY Times early report before they ran scared and drop their early results.  Where did the Times get their results and why didn't they report it longer?  What was in their devious minds?

Yes, the numbers are pretty close. Not something Biden and Warren expected. The Iowa results are a shock to Dems, but they will now rethink their strategy.  It will be interesting to watch the next few races. Even if they don't like the two mayors, they are still their best bet against Trump.

[Alan Klein]

I don't think Americans are ready for a First Lady who's the president's husband.  Imagine reporters asking questions.  Mr. President, will the First Lady Chasten be travelling with you to NATO?  Well, that won;t work.  How about,  Mr. President, will the First Husband be traveling with you?  That seems strange too.  Or how about this.  Madam President, will you be traveling with the First Gentleman?  That might work.  What do others think?

Regarding Mayor Bloomberg, he ran a liberal city.  I don;t think the rest of the country is ready for his anti-gun, anti plastic, anti-super drink cups nanny state.  He thinks and acts like he's the smartest guy in the world.   But he wants to force his stuff down everyone's throat.  Don't get me wrong.  He is a smart guy with plenty of money to spend.  He's the only person who can say that during his 12 years as mayor, his wealth grew from $5 billion to around $35 billion.  Well, he did give up his mayoral salary. 

All of this is a shock to the Dems. But it's because they don't see any of their candidates as the person to beat Trump.  All of them are the same anti-Trump caricatures of each other.  "We got to get rid of Trump.  Blah. Blah. Blah." Sanders wants to turn America into 1984. Kobluchar wants to be president of Middle America. Warren doesn;lt know what to do with her moccasins.  Buttigieg can;t wait to try out the Lincoln Bedroom. And Biden just wants to take a nap.

[JoeKitchen]

I agree Biden's done.  Two reasons.  His incompetence.  Two, Pelosi shot him while aiming at Trump.  Well maybe three.  Americans won't vote for a guy who will be taking naps in the Oval Office. 

AS far as the scenario Les predicted, I'm not sure.  As Joe said, Bloomberg carries a lot of baggage regarding guns.  He'll win the blue states, but that's a given.  That will work against him in all the rural states some of which are key battleground states. 

Curious, Joe, what sets off your brother about Nanny Bloomberg and Mayor Pete?

In any case, I see why the Dems are worried.  You can't run against someone with no one.

I honestly have no idea what they have against Mayor Pete, all I know is that the hatred is intense.  I have been trying to figure it out, but just because I cant put my finger on it does not mean it is not there. 

Bloomberg is hated because he is a billionaire and his implementation of stop and frisk, which there is no way he will ever be forgiven for by the hard left.  (This was the first thing my brother went off about.)  Economist Reichman recently wrote that there is no way to become a billionaire in this country without being corrupt, and he then listed the only 5 corrupt ways he felt this was possible.  The whole article was complete bonk, but you have to realize that everyone on the far left prescribes to this idea, and beyond this they despise billionaires for them supposedly buying political power/favors. 

Bloomberg is no better then the Koch brothers in the left's eyes.  He just wont get their support. 

Nether candidate has any chance of beating Trump, especially considering mayor Pete won with less then 10,000 votes and actually lost to a pretty weak Republican on a state wide race.  The situation Les pointed out with Bloomberg as the candidate makes a little more sense, but his complete inability to identify with the middle of the country will kill him.

And, like I said before, the lack of anyone with the ability to unite the Obama coalition with the fact that Trump has united his own coalition means it does not look good for the Dems.

[JoeKitchen]

Look at it this way, the Iowa caucus total turnout in 2008 was about 240K.  The Dems, for the last month, have been telling us that the turn out this year would be about the same, and they needed it to be.  Without a turnout as large as Obama's, there is just not enough enthusiasm to beat Trump. 

Actual turn out was around 170K, pretty much HRC's turn out numbers. 

There is this myth that Trump won because he got a lot of people who never voted before to vote for him.  Although he certainly did do this, it was not nearly enough to explain his victory.  The real reason he won is because the Obama coalition was not as united and many just stayed home instead of voting. 

Combine that with rising Trump approval numbers, along with a recent poll that showed 90+% of Republicans and around 80% of independents believe Trump will be re-elected.  Only around 60% of Dems believe Trump will loose. 

The enthusiasm is just not there.  Unless someone really develops a serious amount of charisma, like Obama level of charisma, the Dems are in a for a disappointment come November. 

PS. The biggest problem for Democrats wasn’t the vote count

[Alan Klein]

Look at it this way, the Iowa caucus total turnout in 2008 was about 240K.  The Dems, for the last month, have been telling us that the turn out this year would be about the same, and they needed it to be.  Without a turnout as large as Obama's, there is just not enough enthusiasm to beat Trump. 

Actual turn out was around 170K, pretty much HRC's turn out numbers. 

Combine that with rising Trump approval numbers, along with a recent poll that should 90+% of Republicans and around 80% of independents believe Trump will be re-elected.  Only around 60% of Dems believe Trump will loose. 

The enthusiasm is just not there.  Unless someone really develops a serious amount of charisma, like Obama level of charisma, the Dems are in a for a disappointment come November. 

I think the biggest problem that Dems have is that Trump started changing his presentation in the last few months.  He's going from the bad cop to the good cop.  So by the time the election happens, he'll actually seem like a regular president who's done a good job.  A lot of the "bull in the China shop" attitude people believe of him will be gone.  I think that Trump is playing this game perfectly and timing it perfectly too. 

You know when someone is hitting you over the head with a two by four, when he stops, everything feels just great.  You're so happy you want to kiss the guy.  That's what's going to happen with Trump.  Why?  because that; really the guy he is.  All that bravado was often just play-acting.  Sure, he's a no nonsense person. Tough and business-like.   But he's not a cruel person as many of his opponents think he is. 

[JoeKitchen]

On a leftist's facebook feed I happen to be friends with (see below). 

I don't think Mayor Pete deserves to be compared to Muammar Gaddafi, but I constantly see posts like this from Bernie Bros I know, with most being a lot worse and more vile.  It just makes me think he has no chance. 

[LesPalenik]

I don't think Americans are ready for a First Lady who's the president's husband.  Imagine reporters asking questions.  Mr. President, will the First Lady Chasten be travelling with you to NATO?  Well, that won;t work.  How about,  Mr. President, will the First Husband be traveling with you?  That seems strange too.  Or how about this.  Madam President, will you be traveling with the First Gentleman?  That might work.  What do others think?

Regarding Mayor Bloomberg, he ran a liberal city.  I don;t think the rest of the country is ready for his anti-gun, anti plastic, anti-super drink cups nanny state.  He thinks and acts like he's the smartest guy in the world.   But he wants to force his stuff down everyone's throat.  Don't get me wrong.  He is a smart guy with plenty of money to spend.  He's the only person who can say that during his 12 years as mayor, his wealth grew from $5 billion to around $35 billion.  Well, he did give up his mayoral salary. 

All of this is a shock to the Dems. But it's because they don't see any of their candidates as the person to beat Trump.  All of them are the same anti-Trump caricatures of each other.  "We got to get rid of Trump.  Blah. Blah. Blah." Sanders wants to turn America into 1984. Kobluchar wants to be president of Middle America. Warren doesn;lt know what to do with her moccasins.  Buttigieg can;t wait to try out the Lincoln Bedroom. And Biden just wants to take a nap.

I don't think having a husband in the White House would be such a problem as you think. Especially after Trump. Many younger voters couldn't care less if Pete's partner wears pants or a skirt. There could be much worse things than that. Tim Cook is a good shepherd of a rather large organization, so he could advise Pete how to run a big outfit.
Anyway, if Pete doesn't land that job this fall, it would be a good preparation for the next try.

Let's see what happens in the next few months. 

[Alan Klein]

I don't think having a husband in the White House would be such a problem as you think. Especially after Trump. Many younger voters couldn't care less if Pete's partner wears pants or a skirt. There could be much worse things than that. Tim Cook is a good shepherd of a rather large organization, so he could advise Pete how to run a big outfit.
Anyway, if Pete doesn't land that job this fall, it would be a good preparation for the next try.

Let's see what happens in the next few months. 

I think everyone is tip toeing around the big elephant in the room.  They're afraid to say anything because they don;t want to be called a bigot.  But most Americans are not ready for a male president who is married to another male who is his "husband".  I've joked about it because frankly I don;t know how to express my opinions without getting nasty static from others.  But maybe it's important to discuss just how I and others might feel about him being president.

I can imagine what many are picturing going on in Lincoln;s bedroom and they're concerned of the image we project as a country.  They wonder about the man's ability to be strong and steadfast during times of crisis.  They may not be saying it, but there is that concern.  I know I feel it.  Will he be able to be singularly strong in times of crisis, or does he depend on another man to make him strong.  Who are we actually voting for?

Arguing that Tim Cook runs Apple is not the same thing.  Cook was not elected.  He doesn;t represent the citizens of the country.  Whether he succeeds or not has little effect on most people unless you happen to own Apple stock.  A wrong move by Cook isn't getting us into WWIII. 

I think not talking about this is foolish.  Because if everyone just goes along to get along, when the election occurs, all those misgivings that people have will come out in a secret ballot.  And then everyone is going to be surprised with how easy Trump won.  Better to talk about it now so people can make honest decisions during the nomination process.  Of course, that's probably going to happen anyway.  Iowa is a caucus state where people might feel embarrassed because discussions about the candidates are open.  So he seems to be running ahead there.  But future voting in other states will be secret.  So we might know exactly how the electorate feels by what his own Democrats say about him when they vote.

[LesPalenik]

I think everyone is tip toeing around the big elephant in the room.  They're afraid to say anything because they don;t want to be called a bigot.  But most Americans are not ready for a male president who is married to another male who is his "husband".  I've joked about it because frankly I don;t know how to express my opinions without getting nasty static from others.  But maybe it's important to discuss just how I and others might feel about him being president.

I can imagine what many are picturing going on in Lincoln;s bedroom and they're concerned of the image we project as a country.  They wonder about the man's ability to be strong and steadfast during times of crisis.  They may not be saying it, but there is that concern.  I know I feel it.  Will he be able to be singularly strong in times of crisis, or does he depend on another man to make him strong.  Who are we actually voting for?

Arguing that Tim Cook runs Apple is not the same thing.  Cook was not elected.  He doesn;t represent the citizens of the country.  Whether he succeeds or not has little effect on most people unless you happen to own Apple stock.  A wrong move by Cook isn't getting us into WWIII. 

I think not talking about this is foolish.  Because if everyone just goes along to get along, when the election occurs, all those misgivings that people have will come out in a secret ballot.  And then everyone is going to be surprised with how easy Trump won.  Better to talk about it now so people can make honest decisions during the nomination process.  Of course, that's probably going to happen anyway.  Iowa is a caucus state where people might feel embarrassed because discussions about the candidates are open.  So he seems to be running ahead there.  But future voting in other states will be secret.  So we might know exactly how the electorate feels by what his own Democrats say about him when they vote.

Personally, that wouldn't disturb me a bit. There will be some homophobic people, some gays, and most won't care at all. Don't project your personal attitude onto the other voters. I don't think many people will be worried or imagining what's going on in the Lincoln's bedroom. As seen from the Iowa results, very few "established and standard observers" anticipated the final outcome. And when it comes to the international image of USA, it can't get any worse than it is now under Trump.

As to the official state procedures, Pierre Trudeau in his last term or two was a swinging bachelor, and that was fine both with his constituents and other statesmen. He coined the phrase "There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation". Fidel Castro married a second time, but kept his marriage and wife secret, going solo to various official functions and visits. I'm sure if Pete makes his first official international visit to Canada, he will be greeted here with all the pomp and respect as Canadians extend to other statesmen.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... A wrong move by Cook isn't getting us into WWIII...

If you correct your typo and put “c” instead of “o,” it just might 

[LesPalenik]

If the US bombing of Chinese embassy in Belgrade in 1999 didn't trigger WWIII, I wouldn't worry about spelling of Tim Cook's name.

[RSL]

Biden's always been "done." What y'all saw in Iowa is just the tip of the iceberg. And the Democrats are sailing toward it full speed ahead.

Haven't had as good a laugh in a long time as I've had at the Iowa "caucuses."

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Biden's always been "done." What y'all saw in Iowa is just the tip of the iceberg. And the Democrats are sailing toward it full speed ahead.

Haven't had as good a laugh in a long time as I've had at the Iowa "caucuses."

This is funny too: 'Hey Iowa, We Fixed Your Voting Problems'
https://youtu.be/U5NygevLsiU

[Alan Klein]

This is funny too: 'Hey Iowa, We Fixed Your Voting Problems'
https://youtu.be/U5NygevLsiU

That's funny Bart.  My camera use to to work like paper too.  Now I need a 350 page manual.  I use to send my film out to the local photo processing store and get back two 4x6" prints of all my shots in less than an hour.  No levels, contrast, etc.  Today I've had to become an computer engineer and software specialist. 

[Alan Klein]

Personally, that wouldn't disturb me a bit. There will be some homophobic people, some gays, and most won't care at all. Don't project your personal attitude onto the other voters. I don't think many people will be worried or imagining what's going on in the Lincoln's bedroom. As seen from the Iowa results, very few "established and standard observers" anticipated the final outcome. And when it comes to the international image of USA, it can't get any worse than it is now under Trump.

As to the official state procedures, Pierre Trudeau in his last term or two was a swinging bachelor, and that was fine both with his constituents and other statesmen. He coined the phrase "There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation". Fidel Castro married a second time, but kept his marriage and wife secret, going solo to various official functions and visits. I'm sure if Pete makes his first official international visit to Canada, he will be greeted here with all the pomp and respect as Canadians extend to other statesmen.

He has to get elected before traveling to Canada. 

I'm reminded of our election in 1960 when Kennedy ran as the first Catholic to seek the presidency.  There was much concern in his party that he owed his allegiance to the Pope and Rome, that he wouldn't put America's and American's interests first.  It would work against him.  So he took the bull by the horns and arranged a specific speech to address the situation directly.  He told America that he was independent of the Catholic Church.  That his faith would not interfere with his work for America and Americans.  He would be independent.  His speech was accepted, voters we satisfied, and he went on to become America's first Catholic president.  That opened the door for people seeking office of other faiths as well. Today, no one ever mentions it.

Buttigieg has to do something similar or he won't win the nomination.  He has to answer any questions that Americans might have about his sexual preferences that they won't interfere with his work if he becomes president.  This is particularly a problem for him because he's only 37 years old.  He doesn;t have a long history and career in politics where he's shown his stuff.   People don't really know who he is.

[RSL]

This is funny too: 'Hey Iowa, We Fixed Your Voting Problems'
https://youtu.be/U5NygevLsiU

That's a hoot, Bart, and there's an editorial in the Wall Street Journal this morning entitled "New Hampshire Wins the Iowa Caucuses." Among other things it points out that New Hampshire uses paper ballots.

[JoeKitchen]

He has to get elected before traveling to Canada. 

I'm reminded of our election in 1960 when Kennedy ran as the first Catholic to seek the presidency.  There was much concern in his party that he owed his allegiance to the Pope and Rome, that he wouldn't put America's and American's interests first.  It would work against him.  So he took the bull by the horns and arranged a specific speech to address the situation directly.  He told America that he was independent of the Catholic Church.  That his faith would not interfere with his work for America and Americans.  He would be independent.  His speech was accepted, voters we satisfied, and he went on to become America's first Catholic president.  That opened the door for people seeking office of other faiths as well. Today, no one ever mentions it.

Buttigieg has to do something similar or he won't win the nomination.  He has to answer any questions that Americans might have about his sexual preferences that they won't interfere with his work if he becomes president.  This is particularly a problem for him because he's only 37 years old.  He doesn;t have a long history and career in politics where he's shown his stuff.   People don't really know who he is.

I think Mayor Pete ultimately looses, whether it be in the primary or the general, if he gets that far, but walks away with a well developed skill set of how to handle a national campaign plus name recognition.  Then, if Bernie either dies or retires between now and 2024 so the riff in the party starts to heal, he comes back in 2024 and owns it. 

Now I thought of this about Harris, but she decided to nose dive off a cliff into wokeness.  For Pete's sake, let's hope Pete does not do the same thing. 

On top of that, I really think the main internal issue with the Dems that will hold them back this time is Bernie.  He has radicalized about a third of the party to be all or nothing types.  They either vote for Bernie or sit out the election.  In 2008 and 2012, before becoming radicalize, these were part of the Obama coalition, and until Bernie goes away, they will not be returning to it. 

[LesPalenik]

He has to get elected before traveling to Canada. 

I'm reminded of our election in 1960 when Kennedy ran as the first Catholic to seek the presidency.  There was much concern in his party that he owed his allegiance to the Pope and Rome, that he wouldn't put America's and American's interests first.  It would work against him.  So he took the bull by the horns and arranged a specific speech to address the situation directly.  He told America that he was independent of the Catholic Church.  That his faith would not interfere with his work for America and Americans.  He would be independent.  His speech was accepted, voters we satisfied, and he went on to become America's first Catholic president.  That opened the door for people seeking office of other faiths as well. Today, no one ever mentions it.

Buttigieg has to do something similar or he won't win the nomination.  He has to answer any questions that Americans might have about his sexual preferences that they won't interfere with his work if he becomes president.  This is particularly a problem for him because he's only 37 years old.  He doesn;t have a long history and career in politics where he's shown his stuff.   People don't really know who he is.

I think, you are overthinking it. As the Iowa voters demonstrated, not everybody is bothered by his sexual preference. His military record shows that he is more a man than the current commander in chief. He could outrun him anytime. And he has more political and common sense than Trump. BTW, he is now 38 years old.

[Peter McLennan]

He has to answer any questions that Americans might have about his sexual preferences that they won't interfere with his work if he becomes president.

What questions might those be, Alan?  (Or <insert usual suspects here>)?

[James Clark]

CBS to Bloomberg: Do you think Americans want to see two billionaires tweeting at each other?

Bloomberg: “Who’s the other billionaire??”

 

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=130866608112218&_rdr