Democrat Nomination for President

[LesPalenik]

Hi Les,
I can agree that all politics has this at it's core...On EVERY side. That's what politics are all about.

But  Romney saying his religious beliefs were at the core of his decision to vote to expel Trump is a bit too far beyond belief.  And he stating that he is a deeply religious man. When he was conducting business and made billions for him and his partners and crushed corporations and destroyed peoples lives in the doing, just where were his religious convictions then???

The reason for his vote sickens me. If he just said the truth that he despises Trump, I would applaud him for his honesty.
Politicians truly disgust me...no matter the brand. I wish the people of this country would forgo party, and be only Americans.
 
Peter

Peter,

I don't know enough about Romney and his past. In this case, I heard him talking only about the impeachment point, which was the Trump's handling of the Ukraine deal.
Whether it was his religion or just common decency, at this time he did the right thing. Maybe he is now a better man than before. Which can't be said about Trump.

I am not qualified to comment on Romney's past and destroyed corporations and people's lives, but Trump has hurt also quite a few businesses, contractors, students and other people's lives in his previous business endeavours.

[Rob C]

Hi Les,
I can agree that all politics has this at it's core...On EVERY side. That's what politics are all about.

But  Romney saying his religious beliefs were at the core of his decision to vote to expel Trump is a bit too far beyond belief.  And he stating that he is a deeply religious man. When he was conducting business and made billions for him and his partners and crushed corporations and destroyed peoples lives in the doing, just where were his religious convictions then???

The reason for his vote sickens me. If he just said the truth that he despises Trump, I would applaud him for his honesty.
Politicians truly disgust me...no matter the brand. I wish the people of this country would forgo party, and be only Americans.

Peter

Some hope, Peter.

And as I pointed out before, the Trump ethic is infectious: Boris was a quick learner, and just the other day he decided to throw out of a press conference the reporters from papers and tv stations that do not always lie down before him. This is unheard of behaviour in Britain, but it has now happened. Where to next for freedom of expression?

China hit that poor doc who tried to warn colleagues about the danger of the new virus by arresting him, and forcing him to confess that he was a troublemaker. He died, but apparently, that wasn't enough for the state: they had him put back onto a machine so that they could time his second death to suit their publicity and propaganda machine. You think this is an impossibility in the States? I bet it isn't even news, just another part of the realpolitik; I also bet that almost every war zone has had its parallels; let's face it, when you can screw the Palestinians by favouring their enemy who happens to be your best friend, and make your son-in-law (of the same faith) the very guy you decide is the best face you can offer to represent yourself as honest broker in making peace deals, you have two choices for excuses: you don't give a shit how it looks because you are powerful, or you are honest, but simply too dumb to get it. My penny would be on the first option.

Maybe Bloomberg will join the race later on; that might be interesting.

I think Trump has been the worst influence to affect modern politics: far from draining any swamps, he has opened the gates of the sewers and is swimming strong, happy as a pig.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Looks like the TDS is spreading faster that the Corona virus, infecting even some otherwise sane minds

[Rob C]

Looks like the TDS is spreading faster that the Corona virus, infecting even some otherwise sane minds

It's a contemporary plague.

A part of Germany just made a pact with the neo-nazis and got a member of Angela's club elected. It lasted less than a day, and resulted in the resignation of the cat that won the seat: Angela said no friggin' way do we sup with the devil.

That dangerous lunatic fringe on the far right never went away, never goes away; it raised its Gorgon head recently in England, Italy and is trying really hard again in Spain.

We live in times of great danger. In the end, communism or its opposite on the fringes of politics across the world come to the same thing: repression for Mr Everyone and the rule by party, not by any representative of the common man. You lived and worked under that; can't you recognize the same thing growing under a different name? You create personalities above the law, keep them there by vilifying everyone else who has the nerve to speak up and say hey, wait a minute...

You may be better off where you are today.

[Chris Kern]

Maybe Bloomberg will join the race later on; that might be interesting.

Bloomberg is already running.  It's an unconventional campaign, based primarily on pouring enormous amounts of money into mass media―conventional and Internet (and one thing Bloomberg certainly knows is media)―rather than on retail politics, although he is putting in a fair amount of time meeting voters face-to-face and he has assembled a large and, reportedly, unusually well-paid campaign staff.  It should be clear after March 3, when 14 states* conduct intraparty "primary elections," whether he has a reasonable shot at becoming the Democratic Party candidate.

Bloomberg is hardly charismatic, but he is smart, a policy centrist, his campaign is data-driven and therefore flexible, and he has the financial and staff resources to produce the high voter turnout the Democrats need to overcome the Republican advantage in the electoral college.  Plus, while he may lack charisma, I suspect he could run rings around Trump verbally in a debate setting―and that he will know how to utter the magic incantations that will drive el señor Loco even more loco.  (When asked by a reporter the other day whether it was a good idea to have two billionaires running against each other for president, Bloomberg dryly replied, "Who's the other billionaire?")

_____
*Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, plus a special primary for U.S. expats.

[petermfiore]

Peter,
Whether it was his religion or just common decency, at this time he did the right thing. Maybe he is now a better man than before. Which can't be said about Trump.

That's wonderful for him, but restitution for the people that he crushed would go along way to make Romney somewhat credible. Most people always forget the restitution step.

Peter

[LesPalenik]

Looks like the TDS is spreading faster that the Corona virus, infecting even some otherwise sane minds

Sadly, watching the deterioration of GOP is more painful than Trump's deterioration.

[Alan Klein]

Slobodan and Alan,

if you don't like the Hitler and Nazi comparison, I can point out also to Klement Gottwald and communists taking over Czechoslovakia in 1948.
The analogy between Nazis, Communists and Republicans (at this time) is that the cowards and spineless followers in the respective parties were fearful of their leader, didn't want to rock the boat, and allowed ostracizing (and worse) of their honest and brave colleagues. The 2020 State Of The Union reminds very strongly of Nazis and Communists clapping and cheering their leaders, and Trumps attacks of Romney, Comey and others are as hateful as of the aforementioned despots. 
 
I wasn't around the watch the Nazis, but I've seen Communists in Czechoslovakia and there are quite a few parallels between them and Trump.

https://www.radio.cz/en/section/czechs/klement-gottwald

Les, The president of the US serves in three capacities:  Chief executive of the US, commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and leader of his party.  To equate Trump to Hitler because he runs his party is just as silly as assuming that a PM is Hitler becomes he runs his party.  All presidents get fealty from their party.  Actually, in Trump's case, it took him a lot longer to get it as mainline republicans were against him in the beginning.  Is Nancy Pelosi a Hitler too because her party all voted for impeachment, likewise in the Senate?  Was Obama a Hitler because he got all the Democrats to vote for Obamacare?  This is just more of the anti-Trump press trying to make Trump into some evil person, which is silly. I'm surprised you're falling for it. 

[James Clark]

It's a contemporary plague.

A part of Germany just made a pact with the neo-nazis and got a member of Angela's club elected. It lasted less than a day, and resulted in the resignation of the cat that won the seat: Angela said no friggin' way do we sup with the devil.

That dangerous lunatic fringe on the far right never went away, never goes away; it raised its Gorgon head recently in England, Italy and is trying really hard again in Spain.

We live in times of great danger. In the end, communism or its opposite on the fringes of politics across the world come to the same thing: repression for Mr Everyone and the rule by party, not by any representative of the common man. You lived and worked under that; can't you recognize the same thing growing under a different name? You create personalities above the law, keep them there by vilifying everyone else who has the nerve to speak up and say hey, wait a minute...

Not to worry Rob - the purges are already beginning and the political apparatus, which has notably stonewalled investigations into the executive, is already mobilized on behalf of the king.  Soon there will be no dissent, so we can all pretend that everything is perfect again and go back to our bread and circuses.

[LesPalenik]

Les, The president of the US serves in three capacities:  Chief executive of the US, commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and leader of his party.  To equate Trump to Hitler because he runs his party is just as silly as assuming that a PM is Hitler becomes he runs his party.  All presidents get fealty from their party.  Actually, in Trump's case, it took him a lot longer to get it as mainline republicans were against him in the beginning.  Is Nancy Pelosi a Hitler too because her party all voted for impeachment, likewise in the Senate?  Was Obama a Hitler because he got all the Democrats to vote for Obamacare?  This is just more of the anti-Trump press trying to make Trump into some evil person, which is silly. I'm surprised you're falling for it.

Alan,
the reference to Hitler was unfortunate. I didn't compare personality of Trump to his, but the actions of Nazis (and communists) to the current conduct of Republicans. They were gutless cowards, betraying their country and fellow citizens. Some did it because they are simply dumb and fearful, others are callous and corrupt. Trump won't last forever, but the damage he has done to the party will be longer lasting and more detrimental. How did you feel watching those gutless wimps cheering and clapping?

[Rob C]

Not to worry Rob - the purges are already beginning and the political apparatus, which has notably stonewalled investigations into the executive, is already mobilized on behalf of the king.  Soon there will be no dissent, so we can all pretend that everything is perfect again and go back to our bread and circuses.

Ironic, isn't it, that that was kinda what the war of Independence was supposed to be about. Circles...

I really feel sad about it: I used to think that Americans had a wonderful country where but to dream was to fulfil; now, I think that's all being thrown away by a new totalitarianism that's going to create uncrossable divides, just as I think has happened over Brexit where those who you believe screwed you can never, ever be your friends again for the deep pain they have wished upon you. You just see them through different eyes. It's done.

[James Clark]

Ironic, isn't it, that that was kinda what the war of Independence was supposed to be about. Circles...

I really feel sad about it: I used to think that Americans had a wonderful country where but to dream was to fulfil; now, I think that's all being thrown away by a new totalitarianism that's going to create uncrossable divides, just as I think has happened over Brexit where those who you believe screwed you can never, ever be your friends again for the deep pain they have wished upon you. You just see them through different eyes. It's done.

If it makes you feel any better, Slobodan and I get along famously via PM (honestly) and I definitely plan to pal around with him next time I find myself in E. Europe.
 

[Alan Klein]

Alan,
the reference to Hitler was unfortunate. I didn't compare personality of Trump to his, but the actions of Nazis (and communists) to the current conduct of Republicans. They were gutless cowards, betraying their country and fellow citizens. Some did it because they are simply dumb and fearful, others are callous and corrupt. Trump won't last forever, but the damage he has done to the party will be longer lasting and more detrimental. How did you feel watching those gutless wimps cheering and clapping?

You're doing exactly what Hillary did in 2016.  She called those who disagreed with her viewpoints "deplorables", and lost the election.  94% of Republican voters today support Trump through all the charges, maybe because of them.  The Republican Senators and Congressmen reflect their voters.  Insulting them by calling their leaders "dumb and fearful, callous and corrupt" , won't get any of them to vote for a Democrat. 

You also apparently aren't familiar with the annual state-of-the-union affair.  The members of the President's party, whether Democrat or Republican, hoot and holler, while the members of the opposing party sit there in silence with grimaces on their faces.  It's all very silly and both parties indulge in the exuberance equally.  Maybe you ought to spend time looking at videos of previous state-of-the-union speeches to verify my point.  It's just plain normal for party member to cheer their presidents' accomplishments because they want the glory to wear on them as well.  Equating their action to Nazis is over the top.

[Alan Klein]

Not to worry Rob - the purges are already beginning and the political apparatus, which has notably stonewalled investigations into the executive, is already mobilized on behalf of the king.  Soon there will be no dissent, so we can all pretend that everything is perfect again and go back to our bread and circuses.

No one party can silence dissent.  That's just anti-Trump arguments to smear Trump.  Dissent comes from the opposing party.  Which Democrats dissented with Nancy Pelosi?  WHich democrats opposed Obamacare?  How many Democrats supported the Supreme COurt justices when they were nominated by republicans? How many Democrats cheered President Trump's accomplishments that helped the country?    We can make up similar lists for both sides.  90% of the media is Anti-Trump and present the news that way. 

To argue that Trump has silenced debate and is controlling the argument is just being a sore-loser in a bad week for Democrats.  Next week might be better.  In any case, it's up to the democrats to make the case against republicans, not republicans.  That's not how the world works and you know that.

[LesPalenik]

You're doing exactly what Hillary did in 2016.  She called those who disagreed with her viewpoints "deplorables", and lost the election.  94% of Republican voters today support Trump through all the charges, maybe because of them.  The Republican Senators and Congressmen reflect their voters.  Insulting them by calling their leaders "dumb and fearful, callous and corrupt" , won't get any of them to vote for a Democrat. 

You also apparently aren't familiar with the annual state-of-the-union affair.  The members of the President's party, whether Democrat or Republican, hoot and holler, while the members of the opposing party sit there in silence with grimaces on their faces.  It's all very silly and both parties indulge in the exuberance equally.  Maybe you ought to spend time looking at videos of previous state-of-the-union speeches to verify my point.  It's just plain normal for party member to cheer their presidents' accomplishments because they want the glory to wear on them as well.  Equating their action to Nazis is over the top.

I respect your arguments and agree that there is a sizeable group of politicians and constituents liking and admiring Trump. Some of us see it differently from the outside, but we are just observers, not participants. When it comes to apostles following blindly their leader, personally, I'd find it dangerous and disgusting regardless of a party, religion or a country - maybe because I saw results and consequences of such situations.

[Alan Klein]

I respect your arguments and agree that there is a sizeable group of politicians and constituents liking and admiring Trump. Some of us see it differently from the outside, but we are just observers, not participants. When it comes to apostles following blindly their leader, personally, I'd find it dangerous and disgusting regardless of a party, religion or a country - maybe because I saw results and consequences of such situations.

I understand your concern.  But Trump is just a loudmouth, a bull in the China shop.  He's never been a politician and says it like it is which riles people. They're not use to it.  I don;t like it either.  But, his policies are fairly mundane and have been pretty successful so far.  Pro business, low taxes, and liberal socially.  He's a bit of an isolationist "America First".  He's opposed to America getting into wars where our interests are not paramount.  That makes him a peacenik compared to past presidents who never saw a foreign adventure they didn't approve of.  Hillary is a warmonger compared to him.  He uses American strength to get our way.  Obviously, if you're on the receiving end, you're pissed.  But for americans, it makes us safer and wealthier.  Sorry. But that;s the way it is.  What's happened is the political insiders just can't handle that an outsider became president.  Didn't he know he wasn't suppose to do that? It's driven them crazy so they've made up all these crazy things about him. 

[LesPalenik]

Alan,
my opinion is just a layman's take on these situations. But I watched a number of American political commentators and even comedians who see these things similarly and they are not afraid to voice their concerns, so I know I'm not alone worrying about this trend.

If I may use another analogy, it would be the one with the frog that ends up killed in a pot of boiling water.  Right now, the water is still tepid, the frogs are happy, but as James commented:

the purges are already beginning and the political apparatus, which has notably stonewalled investigations into the executive, is already mobilized on behalf of the king.  Soon there will be no dissent, so we can all pretend that everything is perfect again and go back to our bread and circuses.

[Alan Klein]

As I said earlier, dissent comes from the other side, the Democrats.  Every president or leader anywhere tries to control disagreement within their own administration.  It's bad enough arguing with the opposition. Who needs internal conflict?   How long would you have a job if you went to the newspapers and blabbed about the policies of the company you worked for?  Let's be real.  Also, the president is the elected official, not the people who report to him.  They weren't elected.  He was.  It's the president's policies that are paramount.  If a subordinate doesn;t like a president's policy, he should keep his mouth shut and do his job or resign, as some have.  That's the way to handle it.  No one made these people the boss.  As they say, they work at the pleasure of the president because he was the elected person. 

Additionally, Democrats control the House of Representatives, so we have a divided government.  That's great for freedom of the people.  It's more dangerous when the executive and the legislative is controlled by one party.  Every president uses presidential power to do things.  So if they're beyond constitutional., they'll be put down by the courts.  So all this stuff about Trump taking over the country is just more politics to get people nervous so they don;t vote for him.  It's nonsense. 

[LesPalenik]

Executing effectively the vision and strategy of a wise leader is a good and noble thing.
Following blindly an emperor and trying to appease him rather the whole country is something entirely different.

I just watched Bill Maher and one of the things he said was:
"The Republicans don't hate just the Democrats, they hate democracy. They hate the player and the game."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kllPUCjKHI4

[Rob C]

If it makes you feel any better, Slobodan and I get along famously via PM (honestly) and I definitely plan to pal around with him next time I find myself in E. Europe.

I believe you because I am in a similar position, though most unlikely to go anywhere again other than do the final road trip to Scotland via France and bits of England - if I can sell my apartment in time to beat the reaper, grim or laughing.

Anyway, I am convinced Slobodan is playing the wonderful mind game of devil's advocate; much better than draughts or chess, though the latter is just opinion because I never played it. I see it as mental golf, which is equally pointless unless you enjoy carrying the sports (?) equivalent of a large Gitzo.

;-)