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Author Topic: After Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. And The WINNAH is FUUUJIIII !!! )  (Read 56301 times)

cgarnerhome

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #220 on: September 23, 2018, 03:58:31 pm »

I don't know the ratio of pros to luxury buyers for the 100MP and 150MP Phase One products, so I can't evaluate your assertion. Non-professional Phase One buyers do not strike me as the same as Leica buyers. They seem more interested in photography rather than owning a certain camera brand.

I would agree with your assumption.  As an “amateur” my concern is using the best capture technology available.  I realize I’m not on the sweet spot of the value curve.  For me, Phase One is certainly about capture quality but it’s also about customer support, user interface and camera functions and the ability to use C1.  Decisions aren’t always about acquisition cost.

eronald

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #221 on: September 23, 2018, 04:28:37 pm »

I would agree with your assumption.  As an “amateur” my concern is using the best capture technology available.  I realize I’m not on the sweet spot of the value curve.  For me, Phase One is certainly about capture quality but it’s also about customer support, user interface and camera functions and the ability to use C1.  Decisions aren’t always about acquisition cost.

Indeed, as the ability to use C1 is central to your purpose, only a Phase One product qualifies as true Medium Format in your case.
You are lucky to have such a simple decision: No money issues and a requirement that reduces the field to one vendor.

Edmund
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faberryman

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #222 on: September 23, 2018, 04:52:46 pm »

Phase has no horse in this race.

We are discussing the Hassy and Fuji systems here. Hassy XD is now a prestige brand. Fuji GFX is more of a consumer enthusiast thing. Both are used by pros, but the pricing actually reflects the more populated market segment each system is addressing.

I would assume that
- if Fuji hikes prices their target customers (photo enthusiasts) will go and buy dSLRs and continue their photo hobby.
- if Hassy hikes prices their target clients (Ferrari owners) won't care - the camera is a rounding error in their annual income.
If we are going to limit discussion to Fuji and Hasselblad, I would take issue with the characterization of Hasselblad having as its target market Ferrari owners, although I will grant you that the two or three Ferrari owners who are also in the market for a medium format digital camera are more likely to buy Hasselblad than Fuji. But Ferrari owners are just going to be buying one lens, making the Hasselblad's development of a full line of lenses superfluous. Given the ongoing discounts on the X1D, the price differential between it and the GFX50 is not great enough to deter photo enthusiasts - or pros for that matter. Speaking of pros, their decision probably turns on how much studio work they do, with the X1D's leaf shutter likely being the deciding factor.
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eronald

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #223 on: September 23, 2018, 05:16:26 pm »

If we are going to limit discussion to Fuji and Hasselblad, I would take issue with the characterization of Hasselblad having as its target market Ferrari owners, although I will grant you that the two or three Ferrari owners who are also in the market for a medium format digital camera are more likely to buy Hasselblad than Fuji. But Ferrari owners are just going to be buying one lens, making the Hasselblad's development of a full line of lenses superfluous. Given the ongoing discounts on the X1D, the price differential between it and the GFX50 is not great enough to deter photo enthusiasts - or pros for that matter. Speaking of pros, their decision probably turns on how much studio work they do, with the X1D's leaf shutter likely being the deciding factor.

Here in Europe, I have the feeling the Hassy is becoming a fashion accessory for the rich set. Which is no surprise as under previous management Hasselblad explored luxury marketing very carefully.

Edmund
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cgarnerhome

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #224 on: September 23, 2018, 05:19:49 pm »

If we are going to limit discussion to Fuji and Hasselblad, I would take issue with the characterization of Hasselblad having as its target market Ferrari owners, although I will grant you that the two or three Ferrari owners who are also in the market for a medium format digital camera are more likely to buy Hasselblad than Fuji.

I would think Ferrari owners are more likely to buy a Leica ;)

eronald

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #225 on: September 23, 2018, 05:44:07 pm »

If we are going to limit discussion to Fuji and Hasselblad, I would take issue with the characterization of Hasselblad having as its target market Ferrari owners, although I will grant you that the two or three Ferrari owners who are also in the market for a medium format digital camera are more likely to buy Hasselblad than Fuji.

I would think Ferrari owners are more likely to buy a Leica ;)

They're performance oriented.
That's why they sponsor Ballet ;)

Edmund
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #226 on: September 23, 2018, 07:20:59 pm »

I don't know the ratio of pros to luxury buyers for the 100MP and 150MP Phase One products, so I can't evaluate your assertion. Non-professional Phase One buyers do not strike me as the same as Leica buyers. They seem more interested in photography rather than owning a certain camera brand.

I believe that the market segmentation is a bit more complex than luxury or pro.

I don’t feel like I belong to either category.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #227 on: September 23, 2018, 07:25:18 pm »

I believe that the market segmentation is a bit more complex than luxury or pro.

I don’t feel like I belong to either category.

Cheers,
Bernard

You know you are unique Bernard.
I will confirm it.

Edmund
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #228 on: September 23, 2018, 08:13:26 pm »

You know you are unique Bernard.
I will confirm it.

Edmund,

Coming from you it means a lot!  :)

How did you define yourself when you owned a P1 back?

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #229 on: September 23, 2018, 08:27:38 pm »

Edmund,

Coming from you it means a lot!  :)

How did you define yourself when you owned a P1 back?

Cheers,
Bernard

 An idiot?

 Edmund
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 08:42:36 pm by eronald »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #230 on: September 24, 2018, 02:50:32 am »

Hi,

56x56 mm is certainly not very plausible, at least right now, but focusing can be helped a lot using magnified live view on a CMOS back. Hasselblad made a 44x33 mm CMOS back at an almost affordable price.

The closest thing to 56x56 mm is 54x41 mm backs. But, I don't think Phase One makes any of those for the Hasselblad V.

There are som decent solutions for focusing using the viewfinder:




  • Split image view screens help with accurate focusing, if the subject has some nice clean and smooth edge.
  • We can use a magnifier.

The image below shows my Zeiss Victory 3X monocular. That 9X magnification with the PM5 viewfinder.


The image below shows what the viewfinder could resolve. PM5 is red, and the PM5 combined with the Zeiss monocular is yellow. The blue box was a special Hartblei focusing hood with 4X magnification.

I also made a replacement ocular that was made for my vision, but that didn't work well with the Zeiss monocular.

Best regards
Erik


I'm with you, on that, 100%. I told that to Hasselblad already it was the same loud cry from a lot of people. The H actually was and is a very good camera but it took many years for me to get over the V. I still have my V cameras and I consider them one of the best designed cameras of all time. It's a great shame to have lost them.

6x6 digital isn't really possible now, it certainly wasn't possible all those years ago. I actually found the V to work exceptionally well with Phase One backs because you could mount the back rotated. It was great. By 60MP, though, it was getting hard to focus, the tolerances just aren't there and it needed an entire overhaul and redesign with new componentry and interface. It's a shame and I really wish that Hasselblad focussed their attention on the original platform and not the H.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #231 on: September 24, 2018, 09:04:17 am »

The closest thing to 56x56 mm is 54x41 mm backs. But, I don't think Phase One makes any of those for the Hasselblad V.

P65+
IQ1 60mp
IQ1 80mp
IQ2 60mp
IQ2 80mp
IQ3 80mp

All of these are rectangular full-frame-645 but can be rotated to either horizontal or vertical orientation.

V lenses can also be used via adapter on the XF with any P1 back or on a variety of tech cameras.

narikin

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #232 on: September 24, 2018, 10:23:58 am »

Please please PLEASE, stop with the digital 6x6cm requests.
The same people have been harping on about this literally for years. Enough!

It's. Not. Going. To. Happen.

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faberryman

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #233 on: September 24, 2018, 10:46:53 am »

Please please PLEASE, stop with the digital 6x6cm requests.
The same people have been harping on about this literally for years. Enough!

It's. Not. Going. To. Happen.
People ask for things that are never going to happen all the time. Let them have their hopes.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #234 on: September 24, 2018, 11:27:44 am »

People ask for things that are never going to happen all the time. Let them have their hopes.


About 12 years ago I took part in a meeting of dealers/users with an unnamed manufacturer and one of the topics was sensor size/shape. Square or rectangular? Square was outvoted by rectangular with a margin of 2-1, but the 33% square faction was by far more passionate about their shape!


Steve Hendrix/CI
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faberryman

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #235 on: September 24, 2018, 11:36:00 am »


About 12 years ago I took part in a meeting of dealers/users with an unnamed manufacturer and one of the topics was sensor size/shape. Square or rectangular? Square was outvoted by rectangular with a margin of 2-1, but the 33% square faction was by far more passionate about their shape!


Steve Hendrix/CI
Well, P1 may need to have something else up their sleeve if they are going to continue to be able to charge a significant premium after the GFX100/H2D are released. I don't think 150MP or the slightly larger sensor will be enough.
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marc aurel

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #236 on: September 24, 2018, 11:42:22 am »

I expect the GFX100s to have the same crop modes as the 50s, including a 1:1 (square) mode.
For the GFX 100s that would make a 33x33mm sensor area with 75MP.
Might work for some square format lovers.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #237 on: September 24, 2018, 11:46:47 am »

Well, P1 may need to have something else up their sleeve if they are going to continue to be able to charge a significant premium after the GFX100/H2D are released. I don't think 150MP or the slightly larger sensor will be enough.

Just to be clear, I never said this meeting took place with Phase One. I've been involved with nearly every medium format digital manufacturer at one time or another.


Steve Hendrix/CI
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narikin

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #238 on: September 24, 2018, 11:54:46 am »

Just to be clear, I never said this meeting took place with Phase One. I've been involved with nearly every medium format digital manufacturer at one time or another.


Steve Hendrix/CI

Why aren't you in Germany for the Phase One dealer meeting/ mystery product release Steve?!
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #239 on: September 24, 2018, 12:30:20 pm »

Why aren't you in Germany for the Phase One dealer meeting/ mystery product release Steve?!


Ah well, I've already seen it.  ;)

Dave and Bryant are over there negotiating.

I have a home closing that is calling my name this week.


Steve Hendrix/CI
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