After Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. And The WINNAH is FUUUJIIII !!! )

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Doug,

You are right, but the context was CMOS based backs. Also, is Phase One still making those backs in V-mount?

The reason I discussed CMOS is that it allows critical focus in live view. The person I was responding discussed that accurate focusing is problematic on V-series.

Best regards
Erik

P65+
IQ1 60mp
IQ1 80mp
IQ2 60mp
IQ2 80mp
IQ3 80mp

All of these are rectangular full-frame-645 but can be rotated to either horizontal or vertical orientation.

V lenses can also be used via adapter on the XF with any P1 back or on a variety of tech cameras.

[Doug Peterson]

You are right, but the context was CMOS based backs. Also, is Phase One still making those backs in V-mount?

Those backs are available in V-mount as Phase One Certified Pre-Owned (aka Factory Refurbished) with full warranty, all new accessories, and guaranteed excellent condition.

The reason I discussed CMOS is that it allows critical focus in live view. The person I was responding discussed that accurate focusing is problematic on V-series.

Ah. I missed that context. No full-frame 645 CMOS backs available for Hassy V-mount, from any manufacturer as far as I'm aware. The IQ2 50mp and IQ1 50mp and Credo 50 backs for V-mount are CMOS and can be rotated to vertical but are 44x33.

[eronald]

About 12 years ago I took part in a meeting of dealers/users with an unnamed manufacturer and one of the topics was sensor size/shape. Square or rectangular? Square was outvoted by rectangular with a margin of 2-1, but the 33% square faction was by far more passionate about their shape!


Steve Hendrix/CI

I think this is a fair description.

I used to live in a student hostel, and every night they played rock music in the bar.  A minority of about 33% wanted something else but they lost every vote all year long. That's democracy. And still, some record companies earn their living by selling non-rock music

Historically speaking the square Rolleiflex and Hasselblad had a good run for their money, and quite a few good images were taken with them.I don't understand why everybody now agrees that 16:9 makes sense but 1:1 doesn't.

Edmund

[faberryman]

I think this is a fair description.

I used to live in a student hostel, and every night they played rock music in the bar.  A minority of about 33% wanted something else but they lost every vote all year long. That's democracy. And still, some record companies earn their living by selling non-rock music

Historically speaking the square Rolleiflex and Hasselblad had a good run for their money, and quite a few good images were taken with them.I don't understand why everybody now agrees that 16:9 makes sense but 1:1 doesn't.

M43 and MF are by default 4:3 (or in the case of P1s newer backs ~5:4), APS-C and FF are 3:2; however, most digital backs give you the choice of aspect ratios, so it is up to you how you wish to capture, and certainly up to you how you want to crop and print. I didn't know that most people now agree that 16:9 makes sense other than for video.

[eronald]

Leica S3 has launched.

Edmund

[faberryman]

Leica S3 has launched.

Anything more than the sighting and blurb on the Chinese website?

[eronald]

The press conferences will get going tomorrow morning, in about 8 hours, so then we'll know all!

Btw, Panasonic are interesting because they are high tech and aggressive, and may be using a 35mm FF sensor designed by Samsung, who might turn round and sell a medium format version just to point out to Sony that Korea is on the tech map too. Samsung can certainly design and manufacture sensors because they're probably the world's single leading semiconductor vendor in value, and because they do a lot of hi-tech mobile phones, which is where the action is nowadays when it comes to sensors.

I'm not sure what's going on with Fuji and Hassy; the silence is deafening, and if I didn't know better than to read emotions into nothing, I would think these two companies are unhappy about something and still deciding how to handle it.

Edmund

0.00 a.m.   Sony   Congress-Centre East, Europasaal   English
11.30 a.m.   Leica Camera AG   Congress-Centre North, Konrad-Adenauer-Saal   English
12.30 p.m.   Panasonic   Congress-Centre North, Konrad-Adenauer-Saal   English
01.30 p.m.   Fujifilm   Congress-Centre North, Rheinsaal   English
03.00 p.m.   Canon Germany   Congress-Centre East, Kristallsaal   German
04.15 p.m.   Nikon   Hall 2.2, Stand   English
05.30 p.m.   Olympus   Hall 1, Olympus Perspective Playground   English

Anything more than the sighting and blurb on the Chinese website?

[BJL]

I don't understand why everybody now agrees that 16:9 makes sense but 1:1 doesn't.

Much as faberryman said, I think that very few thing that 16:9 makes sense for a still camera sensor — such sensors are generally seen as making sense only on a video camera. Are there _any_ still of still-video hybrid cameras with native 16:9 sensors? (AFAIK, even phones with 16:9 or beyond 2:1 screens usually have 4:3 native sensors, cropping to 16:9 for video.)

What make sense overall is a shape roughly in the middle of the range where the user wants most images to end up, after possible cropping. If the camera cannot be rotated for verticals, that range is from horizontals to verticals, and then 1:1 is a plausible middle ground (which is probably why Kodak adopted that for its first "box cameras" back c. 1900.)  If the camera (or sheet film holder, or film back, or digital back) can be readily rotated, then square is at one extreme end of the shape range, and makes little sense as the sensor shape unless that is the shape you want most or all of the time. I would think that a lot less than Steve's 33% want predominately squares today, even amongst current DMF users; perhaps Steve's audience was dominated by nostalgic old guard MF dealers and uses.

I have an idea though for Phase One and crop-averse photographers: "sweep square mode" — use the technology of sweep panorama mode (my favorite computational photography trick) to get square images from oblong sensors with either a vertical or horizontal sweep. They'll need to get that 5-axis IBIS first though.

[eronald]

BJL,

  The only technically prescribed shape is a round sensor to optimally exploit the lens projection, and also to uniformise heat distribution!

  Mounted in a round case of course.

   

Edmund

Much as faberryman said, I think that very few thing that 16:9 makes sense for a still camera sensor — such sensors are generally seen as making sense only on a video camera. Are there _any_ still of still-video hybrid cameras with native 16:9 sensors? (AFAIK, even phones with 16:9 or beyond 2:1 screens usually have 4:3 native sensors, cropping to 16:9 for video.)

What make sense overall is a shape roughly in the middle of the range where the user wants most images to end up, after possible cropping. If the camera cannot be rotated for verticals, that range is from horizontals to verticals, and then 1:1 is a plausible middle ground (which is probably why Kodak adopted that for its first "box cameras" back c. 1900.)  If the camera (or sheet film holder, or film back, or digital back) can be readily rotated, then square is at one extreme end of the shape range, and makes little sense as the sensor shape unless that is the shape you want most or all of the time. I would think that a lot less than Steve's 33% want predominately squares today, even amongst current DMF users; perhaps Steve's audience was dominated by nostalgic old guard MF dealers and uses.

I have an idea though for Phase One and crop-averse photographers: "sweep square mode" — use the technology of sweep panorama mode (my favorite computational photography trick) to get square images from oblong sensors with either a vertical or horizontal sweep. They'll need to get that 5-axis IBIS first though.

[davidgp]

Leica S3, 64 megapixels camera in Spring 2019, officially announced: https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/25/17897480/leica-s3-medium-format-camera-photokina-2018

[araucaria]

Fuji gfx 50s is now supported by capture one, can't wait for Doug's post.

[Christopher]

Just wanted to ask the same thing. Heard itvwould be supported. For me best news ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BJL]

BJL,

  The only technically prescribed shape is a round sensor to optimally exploit the lens projection, and also to uniformise heat distribution!

  Mounted in a round case of course.

   

Edmund

I knew the round sensor nonsense would come up sooner or later!

Apart from the practical issue of wiring, which AFAIK more less forces IC's to be rectangular, this "optimization of lens projection" has to be judged relative to the final desired image shape, and for that circles, squares and 16:9 will for most photographers require cropping away a larger proportion of the sensor area, increasing the sensor cost and camera bulk needed for a given final desired image size and shape (at the focal plane.)

Also matching sensor precisely to image circle is a bit of a myth: lenses for a given format vary substantially in image circle size; only wide to slightly longer than normal lenses are "tight" in that respect, and zooms only at the wide end.

[narikin]

Fuji gfx 50s is now supported by capture one, can't wait for Doug's post.

Trade Off - Phase gets exclusivity for awhile with the new 100mp, sensor, Fuji gets C1 support for the future?

Random fun guess.

[narikin]

Fuji GFX-50R is official here

$4500 i.e. $2000 cheaper than its big brother.

[armand]

The new GFX100S has IBIS and phase detect. With a smaller body that could be a killer. Of course if they could make it do pixel shift images the sky is the limit 

[matted]

Trade Off - Phase gets exclusivity for awhile with the new 100mp, sensor, Fuji gets C1 support for the future?

Random fun guess.

My random fun guess is that Fuji drove a dump truck full of $$$ up to the Phase office in Denmark. We’ll see if the Hasselblad mirrorless models get support. That should be telling.

[narikin]

GF50mmF3.5 R LM WR compact prime lens announced. This is the 40mm 'equivalent' that everyone expected.

A bit disappointing its just f3.5, that's s-l-o-w.

[Rado]

Why do they call it rangefinder though? It's still an EVF with video from the sensor, not the wonky off-center thing from film rangefinders days right?. I've also noticed there seems to be no joystick on the back of the 50R - how does one select AF points?

[armand]

GF50mmF3.5 R LM WR compact prime lens announced. This is the 40mm 'equivalent' that everyone expected.

A bit disappointing its just f3.5, that's s-l-o-w.

It's close to 2.8 on a 35mmm equiv, with a modern sensor is not that bad. People are salivating over the GR with 2.8 on APS-C.