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Author Topic: Used digi back pricing?  (Read 34310 times)

Jeffery Salter

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #100 on: November 17, 2015, 07:45:04 am »

Thank you Gerald D.  I appreciate your camera testing and innovative images of watches and cityscapes.  It's unfortunate that among the gems of the forum we have to deal with "anonymous" "@ciccio" who has no credibility and adds no value other than to disrupt.
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michael

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #101 on: November 17, 2015, 07:49:43 am »

The rules here are simple. No personal attacks or insults.

Any more and I'll ban the lot of you.

Michael
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synn

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #102 on: November 17, 2015, 08:53:51 am »

Hi Michael,

It has been proven time and again that "Ciccio" is a fake poster who claims to own a different digital back in different threads. I am not sure why such blatantly dishonest people are allowed to troll these forums.
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gerald.d

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #103 on: November 17, 2015, 01:04:19 pm »

a real pathetic this gerald.................

I'm going to get banned for this, and frankly, I no longer care.

Sadly this forum is now so poorly moderated that blatant trolls such as yourself seem to have free reign to drag it into the gutter and keep it there.

This used to be a valuable resource. A place where people with similar interests, but with different backgrounds and wildly disparate skill sets and experience could meet and chat and share knowledge.

No longer.

So in the spirit of where you have taken this forum , allow me to sign off for the last time not with my customary "Kind regards", but by using what, frankly, is of the vernacular that you deserve.

A very resounding, "Fuck you."
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #104 on: November 18, 2015, 12:15:59 am »

The rules here are simple. No personal attacks or insults.

Any more and I'll ban the lot of you.

Michael

Well thats not very British of you, now is it ;-)

I think Gerald and Jim were doing fine. I wish Gerald would have pointed out specifically how Jim is dodging the topic, as I didn't catch it. I'm a bit like a sticky nutter , ..I mean shutter sometimes. They were OK, and both doing some circle dances.

But ya, if anyone, the Sysco dude should be outed.Not that those types of users find there way back in with a new user name(Flag his IP). 

We are all adults here, and even if we are not seeing eye to eye...thats the point of such discussions, we will not always agree, but key being...To find a way to explain, or find a way to be beside yourself and understand from a different point of view someone is projecting. Perhaps one has been rather frustrated from something or another regarding it, etc.  We certainly don't all have to agree...

But I think we can all agree that we would love to see more of Geralds scapes and such...And Jim, perhaps share some pictures rather than bunnies now and then....and lets all try and hold hands for a minute, and close your eyes....thaaats it. Now when I count to 3, lets all put this negativity aside, and carry on. Even in this thread, with perhaps more info of each situation can help explain each others position and why...Rather than point out falts....Now ...open your eyes!

« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 01:06:23 am by Phil Indeblanc »
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Hank Keeton

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2015, 12:59:52 am »



OK....for Michael's sake...and ALL of ours...some POSITIVITY....for a change.

I'm still looking for a Hassy-V 80-MP back....Hassy's new offer is very tempting...even if the pixel-pitch is not all that amenable to LF camera-movements.

I love my Leaf Aptus-65...7.2-mircron pixels...lots of camera-movements....can easily switch from portrait-to-landscape....(done it hundreds of times....in all kinds of weather conditions).

Anyone selling....??

Cheers,

Hank

P.S. Everyone THINK positive....

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heyyrobert

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2015, 07:15:48 am »

For whatever it was worth, I got my IQ140 for $6500. Clean, decent shot count around 100K, but the thing makes some awesome exposures. Was I screwed?
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2015, 09:18:03 am »

For whatever it was worth, I got my IQ140 for $6500. Clean, decent shot count around 100K, but the thing makes some awesome exposures. Was I screwed?

Almost fell off my chaise longue when I read this post. It’s completely on topic and in the spirit of this thread. Amazing.

To answer your question, IMHO you didn’t get screwed - it's an ok price for an IQ140 with >100k clicks. These things can go to, what, a million+ captures, so who cares about the ‘high’ shot count.

Typically, these are selling on eBay anywhere from $7k and up, e.g.

Japanese dealer on eBay - 13303 - Mamiya mount - $7k or best offer, so you’d probably get it for $6.5k (maybe less!)

Roberts Camera (in the US) via eBay - $8.5k or best offer - Mamiya mount - doesn’t say the shot count, but comes with a 6 month warranty. You’d probably snag it for closer to $7 - $7.5k if you pointed out the other sale prices of 140s.

If I was buying one I wouldn’t go any higher than $7 - 7.5k, especially since I don't care about the number of clicks. I'd hope to get closer to the $6.5k you paid, now that you've made me aware of it - which is how a thread like this should work.
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2015, 09:34:05 am »

I'm still looking for a Hassy-V 80-MP back....Hassy's new offer is very tempting...even if the pixel-pitch is not all that amenable to LF camera-movements. P.S. Everyone THINK positive....

As with the Contax fit backs, people who have these tend to hang onto them. Right now, your best bet is an 80MP back with the VAW, and then use the VAW to swap out the mount (assuming P1 have a back to swap it with - they don't actually swap the mount - you could get the dealer to check pre-purchase). The couple that digitalback.com are selling (if they haven't already sold) had VAW attached @ $18k, which for them is a price breakthrough.
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Theodoros

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2015, 09:52:17 am »

I guess the subject we are discussing here is more related to new MFDB (suggested by the makers) prices and inevitably question the new to S/H market price differences... It doesn't question the quality of the products of makers, makers are criticized (by those that critisize them - me among them for specific makers) only on their marketing policy and the (financial) morality behind it...

My believe is that (private) S/H market is adjusting itself on maker's false policies and that there is no space for fanboys of certain makers to "protect" them on keeping doing so... It is clear to me that if the "upgrade path" pricing will eclipse (from those makers that insist on it and price their new products with fake prices as to terminate the life of older products), the MF market base will increase, prices of new will fall significantly (as Hasselblad proved by abandoning the "upgrade path" policy on their later products) and the MF market will expand significantly because its base will widen... Only my two cents...

P.S. After all, there is no "upgrade path" policy with any other product that is supported by a maker... it's only dealers that part exchange S/H cars, jewels,  stereo equipment or even ...cameras (other than one or two makers).
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2015, 09:57:57 am »

As with the Contax fit backs, people who have these tend to hang onto them. Right now, your best bet is an 80MP back with the VAW, and then use the VAW to swap out the mount (assuming P1 have a back to swap it with - they don't actually swap the mount - you could get the dealer to check pre-purchase). The couple that digitalback.com are selling (if they haven't already sold) had VAW attached @ $18k, which for them is a price breakthrough.


Thanks for mentioning. We also have the Credo 80 digital backs for $1,000 less, and there is a short period of Gold Warranty (leaf's version of Value Add) remaining. And regarding IQ140's, we have $9,990 IQ140/DF+/80 kits.... so doing the math, even if one doesn't want or need a DF+/80 kit, it can be sold and then you have a IQ140 not far off from where you are projecting from eBay, and with full one year warranty and support from a CI level dealership.

And importantly, as always, the pre-owned list that we place online for digitalback.com is most, but not all of our inventory. I always have an internal inventory list that I work off of which shows me more product, (some of this is demo that I can turn if I want to) and I am aware if I have product coming into inventory within the coming weeks - many of these items don't make it to the online store because I sell them before they get posted. So, for complete inventory and price options, PM'ing me is a good idea.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #111 on: November 18, 2015, 10:27:58 am »

Indeed. Calling around to each of the relevant dealers to see what they have in inventory and what they expect soon on trade is always a good idea. We're never going to publicly list a back we're expecting to come in on trade (because we're in the process of upgrading someone to a different back) until we have it in hand. But if someone is looking for that kind of back and doesn't need it "TODAY" then we can let them know we expect it to come in, and then let them know when it's arrived and we've put it through our thorough testing regimen. Probably half our pre-owned backs are sold in this way.

This is also one of the reasons you very rarely see a Contax-mount back up on our website is we have a queue of people with a standing interest that we contact before bothering to list it publicly. As the largest Phase One dealer in the world we do have Contax backs come in via upgrades (not as frequently, of course, as more popular mounts), but when they do they are almost always sold to someone in this queue who has already asked us to call them whenever we have a Contax-mount back come in.

Theodoros

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2015, 10:33:23 am »


 ....the pre-owned list that we place online for digitalback.com is most, but not all of our inventory.....

Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Hi Steve, it would be very helpful for us that love to use MF equipment to know from a dealer that deals most of the leading makers on MF equipment the following:

1. What's the percentage balance (about) of MFDB customers that buy new with respect to the percentage that buys used...
2. What is the percentage (about) of new sales that are under an "upgrade path"...
3. If the "upgrade path" trades stay with the dealer  or if they are sent back to the maker...
4. If certain makers offer unofficially "upgrade paths" for owners of previous equipment that is of a different maker...
5. If certain makers offer to customers they think  are important an upgrade path even if the customer doesn't have a trade... ie (pays some more as to "find" the trade)...

Thanks, Theodoros.
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #113 on: November 18, 2015, 11:09:08 am »

And regarding IQ140's, we have $9,990 IQ140/DF+/80 kits....

Great post - last DF (not +) with the 80 went for $2.5k on eBay - so to me it's a no brainer - basically puts the 140 right on the money at $7.5k - would go through CI here in a heartbeat to get the added value, and then move the camera and lens on. The DF and DF+ are still going to be in demand for the simple fact that you can't use the P/P+ series of backs with the XF (unless something has changed), so I wouldn't be too worried about being left holding it.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #114 on: November 18, 2015, 11:28:14 am »

Hi Steve, it would be very helpful for us that love to use MF equipment to know from a dealer that deals most of the leading makers on MF equipment the following:

1. What's the percentage balance (about) of MFDB customers that buy new with respect to the percentage that buys used...
2. What is the percentage (about) of new sales that are under an "upgrade path"...
3. If the "upgrade path" trades stay with the dealer  or if they are sent back to the maker...
4. If certain makers offer unofficially "upgrade paths" for owners of previous equipment that is of a different maker...
5. If certain makers offer to customers they think  are important an upgrade path even if the customer doesn't have a trade... ie (pays some more as to "find" the trade)...

Thanks, Theodoros.


Theodoros -

I'm not going to answer all your questions and not in specifics. But I will say a few things. There are more trade in purchasers than non trade in purchasers. Of course, after all, the base is large enough that this has been the case for some time. Competitive brand trade ins are usually acceptable by makers. Trade ins are normally available for us to purchase rather than send in. But some makers have exceptions at times. CI often make an offer to keep, as long as the product has a place in our inventory, the condition is up to our standards, and passes our inspection. Even if makers offered no trade in program, CI will always have an upgrade path for customers who have purchased their previous digital back through our company.

All medium format makers currently offer a trade in - with the exception of Pentax and Leica. You are assuming Hasselblad has made a policy change, when there is no announcement confirming this is a policy change. They have reduced pricing on 2 models that use the same sensor for some reason. Hasselblad has a history of these sudden price reductions. Companies generally reduce pricing for only a couple reasons. Increasing revenues or decreasing inventory would be 2 of the most common reasons. Reducing pricing should increase unit sales, but is not guaranteed to increase revenues. However, increasing unit sales does reduce inventory.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #115 on: November 18, 2015, 11:30:05 am »

Great post - last DF (not +) with the 80 went for $2.5k on eBay - so to me it's a no brainer - basically puts the 140 right on the money at $7.5k - would go through CI here in a heartbeat to get the added value, and then move the camera and lens on. The DF and DF+ are still going to be in demand for the simple fact that you can't use the P/P+ series of backs with the XF (unless something has changed), so I wouldn't be too worried about being left holding it.


Thank you Buckshot.

I should point out that there is a limited quantity of these kits remaining (2, I believe, at the moment). So anyone really interested should PM me promptly. I had 4 kits, and sold 2 over the past weekend.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Theodoros

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #116 on: November 18, 2015, 11:45:41 am »


Theodoros -

I'm not going to answer all your questions and not in specifics. But I will say a few things. There are more trade in purchasers than non trade in purchasers. Of course, after all, the base is large enough that this has been the case for some time. Competitive brand trade ins are usually acceptable by makers. Trade ins are normally available for us to purchase rather than send in. But some makers have exceptions at times. CI often make an offer to keep, as long as the product has a place in our inventory, the condition is up to our standards, and passes our inspection. Even if makers offered no trade in program, CI will always have an upgrade path for customers who have purchased their previous digital back through our company.

All medium format makers currently offer a trade in - with the exception of Pentax and Leica. You are assuming Hasselblad has made a policy change, when there is no announcement confirming this is a policy change. They have reduced pricing on 2 models that use the same sensor for some reason. Hasselblad has a history of these sudden price reductions. Companies generally reduce pricing for only a couple reasons. Increasing revenues or decreasing inventory would be 2 of the most common reasons. Reducing pricing should increase unit sales, but is not guaranteed to increase revenues. However, increasing unit sales does reduce inventory.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Thanks for the "careful" answer... Its good to know that Leica & Pentax have reduced significantly their pricing without having any "tricks" in mind...
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #117 on: November 18, 2015, 12:03:02 pm »

Thanks for the "careful" answer... Its good to know that Leica & Pentax have reduced significantly their pricing without having any "tricks" in mind...


Your perspective of "tricks" is entirely your own Theodoros. No, neither Leica nor Pentax offers an upgrade option for their clients, while Phase One, Sinar, and Hasselblad do offer this possibility.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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AlterEgo

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #118 on: November 18, 2015, 12:05:41 pm »


Your perspective of "tricks" is entirely your own Theodoros. No, neither Leica nor Pentax offers an upgrade option for their clients, while Phase One, Sinar, and Hasselblad do offer this possibility.


because neither Leica nor Pentax either need or bother to do this... Leica is Leica and Pentax is cheap /new, retail/ dSLR
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AlterEgo

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #119 on: November 18, 2015, 12:07:54 pm »

All medium format makers currently offer a trade in - with the exception of Pentax and Leica.
"ALL" as if the actual number is way greater than 2... is it ?
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