Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Down

Author Topic: Used digi back pricing?  (Read 32547 times)

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #140 on: November 20, 2015, 01:18:50 pm »

AE -

I stated the manufacturers who do offer this (the number is 3, Phase One, Sinar, Hasselblad) in my post immediately preceding yours. And you are correct, neither Leica nor Pentax bother to offer it, as is their prerogative. Notably, trade in policies are maintained only by manufacturers who offer modular digital backs, as opposed to digital cameras. My point, relative to Theodoros, was that Hasselblad does have a trade in policy.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

I think that upgrade path policies between MFDB makers differ considerably (and this is important to mention). The main difference between P1 policies and the rest, is that P1 offers prices that are much greater to what one would get if selling the back as S/H and they do so for third party equipment too..., while the rest of the makers, offer less than the S/H price of equipment so that they can return it into the market with some profit... Exception to the above rule, is Sinar when they take back a multishot (only) back as a trade for an (again multishot) new one, where they offer a price reduction of the new near to 30% (compare that with the 70% that P1 sometimes offers...) for the new back as to keep their leadership on this particular segment of marketing... That said, the 30% isn't all financed from Sinar, as they reduce the dealer margin on these cases because they consider (correctly) that the owner would upgrade to a new Sinarback no matter who the dealer is...

I believe that P1's policy to offer an "upgrade path" that prices the S/H back well beyond the market value, proves that P1 overprices the new products deliberately... They could as well price the new backs lower and give a "reasonable" market price for the trade as the rest do... The difference for the customer, would still be the same.
Logged

Phil Indeblanc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #141 on: November 20, 2015, 03:40:42 pm »

My believe is that for a back to "make its money back" or not, is totally irrelevant to the price of it... IMO, one should think not if the price is payed back, but rather if he adds a tool he misses or not... I mean, what if a back has payed back or not if the same jobs could have been done as well (and up to the same quality) with an alternative? Partly a reason why I've only aimed for multishot backs after my first one...

As for single shot backs, I can see a reason why one would buy a FF sensor back, but I don't see a reason for the same to get an 80mp one with respect to a 60mp one... I don't see a reason why one should buy a "crazy high ISO" MFDB with respect to another that does well up to 320 ISO since he can always use a DSLR for the same job and additionally, I don't think that one should ever buy a new MFDB, unless if new prices drop to the level that one would cash it as S/H for 65% of the respective new price as it happens with DSLRs...

By the way, I'm pretty sure that if new MFDB prices drop, S/H prices will hardly be affected at all...


I guess I do agree with this, and makes more sense of an approach than my initial one....for the most part :-)
Logged
If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...

Steve Hendrix

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1583
    • http://www.captureintegration.com/
Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #142 on: November 20, 2015, 11:09:58 pm »

I think that upgrade path policies between MFDB makers differ considerably (and this is important to mention). The main difference between P1 policies and the rest, is that P1 offers prices that are much greater to what one would get if selling the back as S/H and they do so for third party equipment too..., while the rest of the makers, offer less than the S/H price of equipment so that they can return it into the market with some profit... Exception to the above rule, is Sinar when they take back a multishot (only) back as a trade for an (again multishot) new one, where they offer a price reduction of the new near to 30% (compare that with the 70% that P1 sometimes offers...) for the new back as to keep their leadership on this particular segment of marketing... That said, the 30% isn't all financed from Sinar, as they reduce the dealer margin on these cases because they consider (correctly) that the owner would upgrade to a new Sinarback no matter who the dealer is...

I believe that P1's policy to offer an "upgrade path" that prices the S/H back well beyond the market value, proves that P1 overprices the new products deliberately... They could as well price the new backs lower and give a "reasonable" market price for the trade as the rest do... The difference for the customer, would still be the same.


Theodoros -

Other than your claim that Phase One prices their products "artificially high", I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but your arguments relative to other manufacturers pricing and policies is incorrect. There has been traditionally very little difference between Phase One and Hasselblad upgrade pricing policies. And Sinar only has a few digital back models, so they're a bit of an anomaly, but even so, an 86-H traded in against an eXact provides 43% trade credit off of a $31,158 50MP sensor digital back only (that is yes, capable of 1+ gigabyte files via 16 shot multi-shot).

Hasselblad and Phase One have generally shared similar initial price points with their respective lineups. But Hasselblad prefers to make sudden substantial slashes to their prices, while Phase One prefers to keep pricing where it is for as long as possible, and offer greater trade incentives at times. From a business standpoint, I'm not sure devaluing the price point of your products 30% - 40% at a clip within a year of their release is the smartest strategy.

But in general, I just don't see any real big difference as you see it, at least from the initial price offers. Hasselblad currently offers H5D-60 for $40,990, and Phase One offers IQ360/XF/80 for $41,990, and the lowest cost upgrade for each is around $18,000.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Logged
Steve Hendrix 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

Chris Livsey

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 807
Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #143 on: November 21, 2015, 02:06:24 am »


I'm not sure devaluing the price point of your products 30% - 40% at a clip within a year of their release is the smartest strategy.

Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

It's certainly an effective way of pissing off (can I say that here) your early adopters.
Yes they are always going to take a hit but it is probably prudent to wait until they have forgotten how much the ticket price was having said that it seems to work for Sony although the hit is less in capital terms.
I haven't looked but does it impact rental prices as well? Pricing is as much art as science, ask Leica.
Logged

Graham Welland

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 722
Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #144 on: November 21, 2015, 02:49:57 am »

"For the period you'll own a phase back you'll buy 10 sony's and the only difference is the sony's will always be electronically gimped, the phase will work like a proper camera and even have some software, dealers that know how to answer a question and a piece of kit that feels like it's worth the money.

Waiting for them to sell for cheap is a waste of good time."

I couldn't agree more. I recently lost some of my gear and it struck me looking through the invoices for my MF gear and digital backs and some of it that I used daily was bought back in 2010/2011 and was still just soldiering on. Ditto the couple of digital backs including my Leaf Aptus 65 and Hassy CFV-16.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 03:12:38 am by Graham Welland »
Logged
Graham

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #145 on: November 21, 2015, 09:12:57 pm »


Theodoros -

Other than your claim that Phase One prices their products "artificially high", I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but your arguments relative to other manufacturers pricing and policies is incorrect. There has been traditionally very little difference between Phase One and Hasselblad upgrade pricing policies. And Sinar only has a few digital back models, so they're a bit of an anomaly, but even so, an 86-H traded in against an eXact provides 43% trade credit off of a $31,158 50MP sensor digital back only (that is yes, capable of 1+ gigabyte files via 16 shot multi-shot).

Hasselblad and Phase One have generally shared similar initial price points with their respective lineups. But Hasselblad prefers to make sudden substantial slashes to their prices, while Phase One prefers to keep pricing where it is for as long as possible, and offer greater trade incentives at times. From a business standpoint, I'm not sure devaluing the price point of your products 30% - 40% at a clip within a year of their release is the smartest strategy.

But in general, I just don't see any real big difference as you see it, at least from the initial price offers. Hasselblad currently offers H5D-60 for $40,990, and Phase One offers IQ360/XF/80 for $41,990, and the lowest cost upgrade for each is around $18,000.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Steve... your refer to previous Hasselblad practices which I'm sure are not applied among the backs and cameras that Hasselblad recently discounted and that are all with the Cmos sensor... Hasselblad obviously doesn't want to sell other than the Cmos sensor under the same policy and additionally, I think they keep the CCD sensor products in catalog only to appear as they have a full line of products (which I feel they'll replace soon with dedicated to them sensors).... As far as Sinar is concerned, what's wrong with offering 43% for an 86H (that is in current production) for one to trade for an eXact? ....it is the same back with only the ability to do 4x isn't it? It's like if would trade a 50MS for a 200MS... 43% is fair enough for that... isn't it? They don't offer 43% no matter the back... it's only if one trades the second in line...
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Up