Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A

[davidgp]

Yes, the video was the thing I was wondering about.  Potentially a future update?  Also of course if Leaf will introduce something CMOS too or if Phase will make this available in Hy6 mount.  And actually I wondered about the price - very surprised - would have expected it about $10k less.

If you watch the skype interview between Michael, Kevin and the Phase One guys, they comment this topic for a moment. Basically Phase One says their focus with this back is photography, so don't expect to see video recording in it. They also comment that for the moment they don't see exactly how enabling video will differentiate then for the rest of makers of high-end video recording equipment... (not sure if that means that until they found that out they will not release anything or that they are building some kind of product with that market in mind...)

[Doug Peterson]

Indeed, and that makes the mentioned 14-bit engineering DR seem a plausible number.

We'll soon know, but it would seem plausible that stricter separation CFA characteristics are chosen over sensitivity (which will still jump (from a CCD perspective). This would also put the 'CCD color' debate to rest. The only worrying comment is from their datasheet, which states 14-bit color compared to 16-bit color for the other IQ backs, but maybe that's just marketing speak while trying to cover their ass for prior claims of superior color. We'll see.

I have a quite lengthy article about this coming for you on Monday .

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I have a quite lengthy article about this coming for you on Monday .

Hi Doug,

Thanks. Looking forward to it, because that could lift a veil of speculation and inject some sanity into the decision process. Have a nice weekend, if you can find some time to enjoy.

Cheers,
Bart

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

If you watch the skype interview between Michael, Kevin and the Phase One guys, they comment this topic for a moment. Basically Phase One says their focus with this back is photography, so don't expect to see video recording in it. They also comment that for the moment they don't see exactly how enabling video will differentiate then for the rest of makers of high-end video recording equipment... (not sure if that means that until they found that out they will not release anything or that they are building some kind of product with that market in mind...)

Thanks for clarifying. I bet Sony is planning a 70mm replacement, that's the only way they can outdo Red and Arri. A 24 fps live view means there is a sensor readout. The question is, at what resolution?

I'm sure somebody will come out with video eventually. Leica has already shown they are willing...

[jerome_m]

Here is one from our client Justine Ungaro:

I hate to spoil the show for everyone, but I fail to be impressed by the noise in that picture.

[davidgp]

As Michael comments, if they are able to record full resolution will be more than 8k

[AreBee]

Synn,

...that begs the question; how long will Sony be content making just the sensor and relegated to be "Always a bridesmaid, never the bride" status? The current day Sony is very hungry, pushing envelops in every business area they are in and I won't be surprised if they develop a new platform based on this sensor family at some point.

Not only that, but as manufacturer of the sensor, Sony will know the number of units sold to Phase One et al, if not actually to photographers, and therefore will be able to make an informed decision on the feasibility of releasing a camera of their own.

Regards,

[bcooter]

Quick Tease
Many more images and tests to come. Here is one from our client Justine Ungaro:

Not to throw any cold water on this, but this sample looks like over exposed 35mm cmos, kind of that sand on the sensor look, but it could just be web reproduction.

What surprises me is cost.   I thought for a long time the costs of medium format was the single purpose ccd sensors in larger sizes, though now we're being offered cmos at the same or more in price.

Sometimes I think the guys that price electronics are the same people that balance government budgets.

The other is it will be an everybody sensor.  I know each manufacturer will claim it's different and it probably will have a different look from Phase to Hasselblad, to Pentax, but my question is what keeps Sony from coming out with a super sized A7 that with adapters takes Contax, Hasselblad, Mamiya and all forms of medium format lenses.

They did it with the d800 sensor at almost 1/2 the price of Nikon, so why not with this?

Especially since Sony seems quite happy to throw a lot of stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

IMO

BC

[MrSmith]

"is what keeps Sony from coming out with a super sized A7 that with adapters takes Contax, Hasselblad, Mamiya and all forms of medium format lenses"

only the bean counters.
they would just get zeiss to make their lenses for an oversized A7r type body and leave the adapters to other people. it's all perfectly feasible just depends on the fiscal projections.

[EricWHiss]

I hate to spoil the show for everyone, but I fail to be impressed by the noise in that picture.

Me too, and also not by the color tonality/detail either.

[EricWHiss]

Doug,
Love to see the IQ280 with sensor plus at 1600 compared to the 250 with something like the earlier portrait shot.
Eric

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Not to throw any cold water on this, but this sample looks like over exposed 35mm cmos, kind of that sand on the sensor look, but it could just be web reproduction.

It probably has more to do with the photographer being inexperienced (camera came just out of the box) with the sensor. Although I'm guessing here, they probably used a film curve response as with their traditionally underexposed CCD images, where a linear curve allows (up to a stop) better exposure (= lower shot noise) and studio light would be plentyfull, and the ISO 6400 doesn't help either because beyond ISO 1600 there is no benefit (one probably is better off underexposing from that point of gain setting).

I would not draw too many conclusions from that somewhat 'rushed' shot.

Cheers,
Bart

[bcooter]

It probably has more to do with the photographer being inexperienced (camera came just out of the box) with the sensor. Although I'm guessing here, they probably used a film curve response as with their traditionally underexposed CCD images, where a linear curve allows (up to a stop) better exposure (= lower shot noise) and studio light would be plentyfull, and the ISO 6400 doesn't help either because beyond ISO 1600 there is no benefit (one probably is better off underexposing from that point of gain setting).

I would not draw too many conclusions from that somewhat 'rushed' shot.

Cheers,
Bart

Your probably right, but then again why show it?

BC

[Joe Towner]

Your probably right, but then again why show it?

BC

I would be surprised if the shooter wasn't well versed in the Phase method prior to shooting a launch photo - I mean, this one image is all we have to tear apart for the weekend, so it had better be AMAZING.

 I'm excited as the IP250 should do amazing in the wedding market.  I have fears that the price point will prevent any major moves not already had.  The IQ260 is about the same cost, so you get 10 extra MP or you get high ISO.  50MP really is the spot it seems in MFDB's - lowest price (in the H4/5D-50) with a distinct resolution advantage over 35mm.  If anything, Hasselblad has the best pricepoint, so I hope this H5D-50C chatter comes in more in line with the current pricing ($30k for a kit with 80/2., thus pushing Phase to be a IQ250 kit around $35k.  It will be fun to see side by side comparison between the two cameras with the same chip.

[Joe Towner]

Doug, I'm not seeing anything SensorPlus on the pages yet - is ISO6400 at full 50mp or a 12.5mp file?

[Paul2660]

Lots of folks also seem to overlook just how the sensor crop factor will effect your end result.  1:3 as I understand it is the same as the crop the Canon 1d Mkiv had 1.3x.

This makes your 28mm now a 36mm. 

The p45+ was 1:1 and many times I made mistakes and cropped of the top of a shot with my DF as I never used the masks. 

If you shoot wides tech camera or DF+ this will be a big consideration. 

Paul Caldwell

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Doug, I'm not seeing anything SensorPlus on the pages yet - is ISO6400 at full 50mp or a 12.5mp file?

Joe, it's at full 50MP, there is no Sensor+ with this sensor.

Cheers,
Bart

[Kevin Raber]

I have had a unit for a few days now and the images look great at all ISOs and very usuable.  Michael and I are going to put it through the test of shooting hand held medium format in Antarctica.  Should be a lot of fun.  With the higher ISO capability it should allow us to shoot even hand held with the 240mm.  We probablly won't use live veiw much but it is a nice feature and very usable for focusing.  It is very easy to execute on the DF+.  When we get back I'll put it on the ALPA and try it out with various lenses and that is where live view should really be beneficial.  We'll give a full report when we get back.

Kevin Raber

[eronald]

Price reasoning seems to be that a small-CCD 50MP system (eg. H5D40) + D800 +lenses + 2 system pain is replaced by a single high resolving  MF system.

It's a point of view.

But, I'm sure the honorable kaisha-in of Pentaksu will take into careful consideration the customer wishes about lower pricing in this thread, when they introduce the 645DII.

Edmund

[jerome_m]

Price reasoning seems to be that a CCD 50MP system + D800 +lenses + 2 system pain is replaced by a single more flexible MF system.

I see that people discuss low light abilities of the new MF back. Are there equivalents of the Nikon 24, 28, 35, 50 and 85 f/1.4 lenses in MF?