Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8   Go Down

Author Topic: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A  (Read 41116 times)

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3265
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2014, 07:48:18 am »

About pricing, $35K for the 44x33 IQ250, it's about the same as the full-frame 54x41 IQ260, right? So the CMOS advantage costs quite a bit... it shall be interesting to see Hasselblad's pricing strategy. I guessed right about sensor size, but I thought price would be set lower :)

On the other hand upgrade pricing can show an entirely different strategy, has happened before.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 07:50:39 am by torger »
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4169
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2014, 07:53:12 am »

Long exposures on the 250 will they need a dark frame for best results?

Dark frame is mandatory and automatic on all long exposures on the IQ250 - same as the IQ260 and all previous P1 backs.

synn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1235
    • My fine art portfolio
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2014, 07:57:44 am »

There is no IQ240, never was.

Perhaps now it makes more sense why the IQ140 was not brought into the IQ2 series :).

Yes, it seems like this Merlot is a lot more sinister than I thought it was.  ;D
I am guessing this project has been a 3+ years in the making. In which case yes; the absence of an IQ240 makes perfect sense.
Logged
my portfolio: www.sandeepmurali.com

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4169
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2014, 08:00:10 am »

Yes, it seems like this Merlot is a lot more sinister than I thought it was.  ;D
I am guessing this project has been a 3+ years in the making. In which case yes; the absence of an IQ240 makes perfect sense.

I have a feature length article coming out on monday which will cover some interesting history.

But suffice it to say they didn't start this project yesterday :).

JV

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1008
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2014, 08:01:03 am »

About pricing, $35K for the 44x33 IQ250, it's about the same as the full-frame 54x41 IQ260, right? So the CMOS advantage costs quite a bit... it shall be interesting to see Hasselblad's pricing strategy. I guessed right about sensor size, but I thought price would be set lower :)

On the other hand upgrade pricing can show an entirely different strategy, has happened before.

I would agree with that.  I would have guessed mid twenties, $30K at most.  $35K is a lot…

Logged

ondebanks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2014, 08:06:21 am »

Dark frame is mandatory and automatic on all long exposures on the IQ250 - same as the IQ260 and all previous P1 backs.

Aw, crap. That is NOT the answer I wanted - or expected - to see!  >:(

They really have to add a firmware setting to make it optional. Otherwise it won't tempt FFDSLR users, who are used to controlling their own dark acquistion, stacking and subtraction.

When are the likes of Phase One and Leica going to trust photographers to make their own decisions?

Ray
Logged

Jason Denning

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 231
    • http://www.jasondenning.co.uk
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2014, 08:07:52 am »

44x33! Damn I think I would just buy a D800E and stick medium format lenses on it and spend the left over $32k on a holiday.
Logged

Christoph C. Feldhaim

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2509
  • There is no rule! No - wait ...
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2014, 08:19:15 am »

44x33! Damn I think I would just buy a D800E and stick medium format lenses on it and spend the left over $32k on a holiday.

Well ... this sensor gives you 1.7 times the real estate of a D800 and 1.39 times
the number of pixels which results in a whooping 17.9% of linear pixel resolution.
Sou you can print a 100*100 cm image in 117.9x117.9 cm without quality loss.
Will require some serious medium format color and MTF magic to justify the price tag.

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3265
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2014, 08:29:56 am »

44x33! Damn I think I would just buy a D800E and stick medium format lenses on it and spend the left over $32k on a holiday.

Phase One makes expensive digital backs. They still generally have some sort of edge (one of them is simply to be available first, Hasselblad tried here, but Phase One is stealing the show), so people buy them instead of the more economical competitors. But as far as I can understand the Sony medium format sensor is going to end up in a lot of backs, and probably Phase One's IQ250 is going to be the most expensive option. Probably still one of the most popular. Phase One's upgrade programs are also generally a lot more attractive than looking at the single unit price, so if you're already in the Phase One system you'll get a sweeter offer for sure.

Sony Exmor technology with largest pixel size so far and with MF-style bayer color filters (ie color rendition a higher priority than high ISO), I cannot think of any other result that this will be the best image quality seen so far out of a camera sensor.

Maybe we'll see Hasselblad, Leaf, Pentax, Leica all with "their own" Sony CMOS sensors within a year or so.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 08:33:56 am by torger »
Logged

henrikfoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 899
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2014, 08:32:08 am »

Doug!

How is the picture quality in low iso compared to th 280?
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4169
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2014, 08:41:25 am »

Doug!

How is the picture quality in low iso compared to th 280?

I've not done any testing in direct comparison yet. I've been too focused on evaluating the IQ250 on it's own.

P1 claims a full stop of DR advantage. But given they are entirely different sensors I will wait for our comparative testing to judge for myself. Stay tuned or you're welcome to come to our NY office and do your own testing.

Lower resolution of course (50mp vs 80mp) and smaller sensor (different lens ratios).

synn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1235
    • My fine art portfolio
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2014, 08:50:02 am »

Doug, hopefully you can do a low ISO test some time against the IQ140 and/ or a Credo 40, two backs with similarly sized sensors that you have access to.
Logged
my portfolio: www.sandeepmurali.com

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4169
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2014, 08:54:53 am »

Doug, hopefully you can do a low ISO test some time against the IQ140 and/ or a Credo 40, two backs with similarly sized sensors that you have access to.

Yes of course. We will try to do get as many tests done as possible. With priority of course for our customers. I expect our office studio will be booked nearly non stop this week with clients (and potential clients) doing testing for their own evaluation. But I will try to get some general purpose testing done as well. My highest priority is tech camera testing.

michael

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5084
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2014, 08:56:29 am »

Doug,

Thank you for the well-presented news. Hope you sell lots of them.

The part I don't understand is how Phase managed to announce ahead of Hasselblad even though Hassy are partnered with Sony.

Edmund

The Sony sensor is not proprietary to any one company. My understanding is that any company that wishes can use it. Hasselblad jumped the gun with its announcement while Phase One was having its dealer introduction meeting in Hong Kong last week. But the real issue for all back and camera makers will be their ability to either integrate it into an existing product or introduce a new one.

With a high res touch screen already part of the IQ series my guess is that Phase has a bit of a leg up at this point, as they've clearly shown by announcing now with shipping starting next week.

Michael
Logged

synn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1235
    • My fine art portfolio
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2014, 09:05:25 am »

I agree Michael, with the rest of the hardware being industry leading, Phase is definitely having an advantage in this game at the moment. The Hassy screen is nothing to write home about and that might be the reason why they are restricting Live View to the tethered mode only.
But of course, that might (And I hope it will) change with the H6D, whenever that comes out. Competition is a good thing.
Logged
my portfolio: www.sandeepmurali.com

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3265
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2014, 09:08:25 am »

Yes, Hasselblad's introduction seems to be more in a hurry, with no live view available in the back as it seems. Phase One is a step ahead in user interface, and also in long exposure capability (but that part is probably less important for most users).

No doubt the Hasselblad camera will be substantially cheaper though, but one will have to wait for Pentax to get MF CMOS at an "affordable" price. Or maybe Sony will make some crazy one-off rangefinder with fixed lens with this sensor, it would actually not surprise me after cameras like the RX1.
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4169
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2014, 09:12:04 am »

With a high res touch screen already part of the IQ series my guess is that Phase has a bit of a leg up at this point, as they've clearly shown by announcing now with shipping starting next week.

Good luck in Chile and Antarctica Michael! Good hunting and good light to you!

synn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1235
    • My fine art portfolio
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2014, 09:12:50 am »

Yes, Hasselblad's introduction seems to be more in a hurry, with no live view available in the back as it seems. Phase One is a step ahead in user interface, and also in long exposure capability (but that part is probably less important for most users).

No doubt the Hasselblad camera will be substantially cheaper though, but one will have to wait for Pentax to get MF CMOS at an "affordable" price. Or maybe Sony will make some crazy one-off rangefinder with fixed lens with this sensor, it would actually not surprise me after cameras like the RX1.

Yes, that begs the question; how long will Sony be content making just the sensor and relegated tot he "Always a bridesmaid, never the bride" status?
The current day Sony is very hungry, pushing envelops in every business area they are in and I won't be surprised if they develop a new platform based on this sensor family at some point.
Logged
my portfolio: www.sandeepmurali.com

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8815
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2014, 09:15:10 am »

Aw, crap. That is NOT the answer I wanted - or expected - to see!  >:(

They really have to add a firmware setting to make it optional. Otherwise it won't tempt FFDSLR users, who are used to controlling their own dark acquistion, stacking and subtraction.

When are the likes of Phase One and Leica going to trust photographers to make their own decisions?

I agree with Ray, having user selectable darkframe subtraction (and support in CaptureOne to do it in post, just like LCCs) would allow many more users to benefit. I can only imagine what an IQ250 star trail sequence would look like, altthough there are many more time critical (timelapse type of) long exposure scenarios that would benefit from that. It would also open up possibilities for other cameras, which would boost the sales of CaptureOne software more than it would threaten the sales of the enabled backs.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

michael

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5084
Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know and Q&A
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2014, 09:16:56 am »

Good luck in Chile and Antarctica Michael! Good hunting and good light to you!

Thanks Doug. Having the IQ250 along to shoot with for the next two weeks is going to be great fun. We'll be lending it to anyone on the trip who wishes to try it, though they'll have to pry it out of Kevin and my hands to do so. (A bribe of a beer works wonders though).

Michael
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8   Go Up