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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 516438 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15720 on: April 29, 2023, 08:24:45 am »

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is that unintentional use is larger than defensive use...  ( defensive use is the main the reason for carrying a gun i suppose)
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I read an estimate 400 million guns in the US now, more than one gun per person. But it wasn't clear if they meant total number or number of guns in private hands. If defensive use is part of the sales appeal, shouldn't we be seeing positive trends in that direction by now? If not, it's not obvious how selling even more guns would improve personal safety.

Maybe that's why some states have redefined "danger" to now mean anyone ringing your doorbell. I know, I know, that was a cheap shot. Even though I really like gallows humour, I feel a bit bad making fun of something so serious, but it is all a bit theatre of the absurd.

A photography related gun story hit the web-o-sphere for about 6 minutes a few days ago, https://petapixel.com/2023/04/25/photo-of-6-year-old-boy-pointing-gun-at-camera-at-nra-event-sparks-uproar/. I did not read anything beyond this one story so I don't know what directions the controversy took. I can see where some might take offence at a gun being pointed at anyone, I've always thought that was a no-no, but for all I know maybe the photographer did encourage the kid to do it for effect. I don't know if some more verifiable truth has emerged since.
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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15721 on: May 04, 2023, 09:29:17 pm »

Had not really been paying much attention to the whole Brittney Griner story, but just read a recap article about it. And it confuses me a bit.

Unless the article is wrong on some details, she travelled to Russia, and was found in possession of a, admittedly small, quantity of hash oil contained in two vials with just a smidge over .7 grams in total. She apparently admitted to possession for personal use. She received 10 years (and I agree this sentence was harsh), within the min/max allowed under Russian law. Who knows what an accused would have been given, had they been a nobody.

The Russian government took advantage of an unexpected gift, and subsequently negotiated a trade for a real bad guy.

She travelled to a country which is, to say the least, unfriendly with her home country, knowingly in possession of an illegal drug, got caught and had the book thrown at her. What did she really expect? But my bigger question is, why is everyone treating her as a hero, and a victim? Including being invited to the White House. Meanwhile, others, more deserving of release, continue to sit in a Russian cell.

I just don't get it.

Marv

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15722 on: May 04, 2023, 09:34:02 pm »

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I just don't get it.

Marv


You're not alone.


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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15723 on: May 07, 2023, 06:40:41 am »

Does the current moral panic over transgenderism remind anyone else of the satanic cult stories from 30 years ago about child kidnappings and abuse?

Also, you don't hear about alien abduction much anymore.
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kers

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15724 on: May 07, 2023, 08:40:13 am »

Had not really been paying much attention to the whole Brittney Griner story, but just read a recap article about it. And it confuses me a bit.

Unless the article is wrong on some details, she travelled to Russia, and was found in possession of a, admittedly small, quantity of hash oil contained in two vials with just a smidge over .7 grams in total. She apparently admitted to possession for personal use. She received 10 years (and I agree this sentence was harsh), within the min/max allowed under Russian law. Who knows what an accused would have been given, had they been a nobody.

The Russian government took advantage of an unexpected gift, and subsequently negotiated a trade for a real bad guy.

She travelled to a country which is, to say the least, unfriendly with her home country, knowingly in possession of an illegal drug, got caught and had the book thrown at her. What did she really expect? But my bigger question is, why is everyone treating her as a hero, and a victim? Including being invited to the White House. Meanwhile, others, more deserving of release, continue to sit in a Russian cell.

I just don't get it.

Marv

Not a very olympic thought of Russia to mix sport with politics.
Russia should be banned grom the Olympics
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15725 on: May 09, 2023, 01:51:55 pm »

Hours ago:
Man allegedly shoots 14-year-old girl playing hide-and-seek on his property in Louisiana

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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15726 on: May 09, 2023, 09:10:12 pm »

So, realistically, how does the gun violence/death problem in America actually get resolved (to an acceptable level, whatever that actually is)?

Increasingly stoked by fear, anger, hatred, stupidity and mixed with the seemingly out of control desire to possess the most harmful of weaponry, gun related violence just seems to be getting crazier.

If it does not get resolved, where then does it end? Or will it, ever? Kids can't go to school, the mall, the park, a movie theatre, play hide and seek.....without fear of shots ringing out. What kind of a life is that?


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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15727 on: May 09, 2023, 09:35:57 pm »

So, realistically, how does the gun violence/death problem in America actually get resolved (to an acceptable level, whatever that actually is)?
A huge number of Americans need to understand then accept that the right to own weapons of war has nothing to do with "A well regulated Militia."
I don't expect to see that in my lifetime, sadly.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15728 on: May 10, 2023, 08:23:01 am »

As I am sure all of you have heard by now, Trump has a new item for his resume. What a guy.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/jury-reaches-verdict-e-jean-carroll-rape-defamation-case-trump-rcna82778
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15729 on: May 10, 2023, 10:09:37 pm »

As I am sure all of you have heard by now, Trump has a new item for his resume. What a guy.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/jury-reaches-verdict-e-jean-carroll-rape-defamation-case-trump-rcna82778

Might this improve his polling?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15730 on: May 10, 2023, 10:29:53 pm »

So, realistically, how does the gun violence/death problem in America actually get resolved (to an acceptable level, whatever that actually is)?

Increasingly stoked by fear, anger, hatred, stupidity and mixed with the seemingly out of control desire to possess the most harmful of weaponry, gun related violence just seems to be getting crazier.

If it does not get resolved, where then does it end? Or will it, ever? Kids can't go to school, the mall, the park, a movie theatre, play hide and seek.....without fear of shots ringing out. What kind of a life is that?

What a depressing bunch of questions.

Given how vulnerable children in schools are, I'm surprised that the NRA hasn't come out in favour of arming all school children, since there seems to be some reluctance to the idea of arming all teachers. Don't children have as much right to self-defence as anyone else? At some point in the past that would have sounded like hyperbole, yanking your chain, maybe a bit of irony. But for a moment there, I bet it sounded normal.

One day soon, a bunch of people with legal concealed loaded weapons in some public place, who originally bought those guns to "protect their families", after some misunderstandings that escalate, will open fire on each other with dozens dead, many of the dead bystanders. Even after that, there will still be people who will say that that's the price of freedom.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15733 on: May 26, 2023, 03:51:08 pm »

Or:
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/23/house-gop-auctions-mccarthy-chapstick-debt-talks-00098347

That puts me in mind of Tim Urban's description of present day looney American politics as just being the TV reality show manifestation of actual politics. Nothing's too dumb to broadcast. I guess if you keep people outraged and uninformed, it keeps them from asking too many hard questions.

But the best line of the month has to be Lauren Boebert's when she said that her husband doesn't clean guns or drink beer out of a glass, and that it's not Bud Light anyway, which was a reference to something I don't know the details of and don't care about. I am paraphrasing what she said btw, the actual quotations are all over the interweb.

I made the mistake of watching part of an interview with De Santis on youtube, and he must have used the work "woke" a dozen times, and he even used the phrase "cultural Marxism". These guys all sound like Birchers wetting themselves over the "communist" invasion (which also never happened). Seems like every 20-30 years there's a "red scare" or a "satanic cult" moral panic in the US. That's a really effective propaganda machine at work, I'd say. I caught part of a speech or interview or something with Trump and he (and others) are still talking about rigged elections, as if they are a thing. How is this possible, it's dumber than believing in flat earth or alien abduction. Is it so commonplace that we may have forgotten how dumb it is?

Now, a lot of the way-out "politically correct woke stuff" is actually too dumb for words, but the number of people who actually take it seriously rounds to zero. It's a fun university campus debate topic, part of growing up. It's foolish to attach any more importance to it than that. However, frothing at the mouth about it in dumb speeches is a good tactic, an excellent distraction from real problems. You don't want people to start worrying about real problems, not much upside in that.

I keep thinking of those guys sitting at home with loaded guns, so paralyzed with irrational fear that they shoot strangers on their porch or delivery people at the wrong address or kids playing games. Geez, what are Americans so afraid of. If you're going to be afraid, you should be afraid of all the nut jobs who own guns, now that's worth being afraid of.
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MattBurt

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15734 on: May 26, 2023, 04:19:02 pm »

I've been thinking about designing a t-shirt with a picture of Jesus and just the word WOKE. Might ruffle some feathers...
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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15735 on: May 26, 2023, 07:21:56 pm »

Guys sitting at home with loaded guns, so paralyzed with irrational fear..... is only a small, but deadly, component of the problem.

I truly believe that people (and I mean around the world, I see it slowly happening here in Canada too, but I think the U.S. is leading the pack) are losing their ability to reason through an issue.

Fuelled by those "leaders" (political, religious etc) who take advantage of this and continue to fill the minds of those willingly impressionable with a whole bunch of bizarre garbage, mostly driven by fear, hate or other emotional stimuli.

And I ask similar questions which I previously posed....Where does it all end? How can any of this be any good?

I wonder if Desantis, MTG, Trump and so many others actually realize what they are doing? Do they truly believe the stuff they spew? Or do they know it's all just a big performance and really don't care about the consequences, as long as they personally benefit?
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15736 on: May 26, 2023, 07:26:57 pm »

IMHO to your question, the latter.  :'(
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15737 on: May 26, 2023, 09:45:15 pm »

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And I ask similar questions which I previously posed....Where does it all end? How can any of this be any good?

I wonder if Desantis, MTG, Trump and so many others actually realize what they are doing? Do they truly believe the stuff they spew? Or do they know it's all just a big performance and really don't care about the consequences, as long as they personally benefit?

Some of it defies belief, even when you see it with your own eyes or hear it with your own ears. I personally know people who fear vaccines. You mention polio, small pox, and other diseases but it doesn't register. It's as if they cannot allow a conflicting thought to enter.

As for motivation, I'm sure there is a mix. My personal instinct tells me that Trump is a pure grifter. You know how con men will happily bilk a pensioner out of everything and simply not care about the consequences. I think that Trump is like that. But I think that Bannon is a true believer, for example. As for MTG, Boebert, and others, "useful idiots"?

It's truly sad how slavishly following a sacred cow can lead to truly awful results. Lately, the term "free speech absolutist" has a lot of appeal. Leaving aside for the moment that the proponents of it probably don't live by its tenets, or only do so conveniently, even the most die hard 1st amendment fetishists must have some problem with the notion that Alex Jones can cause 10 years of misery to people whose children were murdered in school. "Believing" in free speech "at all costs" sounds good at a political rally but surely no founding fathers meant it to protect Mr. Jones. I mean, if Mr. Jones is what free speech absolutism leads to, you need to re-examine things.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15738 on: May 26, 2023, 09:55:09 pm »

"Believing" in free speech "at all costs" sounds good at a political rally but surely no founding fathers meant it to protect Mr. Jones. I mean, if Mr. Jones is what free speech absolutism leads to, you need to re-examine things.
So where do you stand with the ACLU and their defense of a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through Skokie?
Tough call.

As for the founding fathers and their idea of freedom of speech, the First Amendment protects us against the government, a worthy goal:

"Many people are shocked to learn that the First Amendment free speech guarantee, along with all constitutional rights, only protects us against the government. So, if the government interferes with your freedom of speech, you can bring a First Amendment lawsuit to challenge that. And that's true whether we're talking about a federal government official or a state or local government official. But guess what? Facebook, Twitter, the other social media platforms are not the government. They are private sector entities, and therefore, they have no First Amendment obligation to protect your freedom of speech."
— Nadine Strossen, professor at New York Law Schoo

Mr. Jones is nearly as awful as the neo-Nazi group, but I don't want the government stopping either, where would we draw the line?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15739 on: May 27, 2023, 09:35:28 am »

So where do you stand with the ACLU and their defense of a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through Skokie?
Tough call.

As for the founding fathers and their idea of freedom of speech, the First Amendment protects us against the government, a worthy goal:

"Many people are shocked to learn that the First Amendment free speech guarantee, along with all constitutional rights, only protects us against the government. So, if the government interferes with your freedom of speech, you can bring a First Amendment lawsuit to challenge that. And that's true whether we're talking about a federal government official or a state or local government official. But guess what? Facebook, Twitter, the other social media platforms are not the government. They are private sector entities, and therefore, they have no First Amendment obligation to protect your freedom of speech."
— Nadine Strossen, professor at New York Law Schoo

Mr. Jones is nearly as awful as the neo-Nazi group, but I don't want the government stopping either, where would we draw the line?


Oh man, above my pay grade for sure.

But I'd make some distinctions. It's one thing to say that the government can't jail you for your thoughts and beliefs. I don't think I have a problem with that. But I don't think that means that an entity, a private company like Twitter say, or a publisher, should be forced to distribute those ideas. If Twitter refuses to publish conspiracy theories, no one is preventing the holders of those ideas from expressing their beliefs. They can go elsewhere, they can self-publish. Calling private companies like Twitter et al "public spaces" is, imo, an error and we simply have not properly come up with policies regulating social media. Now I know that when I use the term "regulate" people cringe, but everything we do is regulated and there are good historical reasons for that. No one sane considers that stopping at red lights is an abrogation of their individual freedom.

(As an aside, would many people think that free speech absolutism applies to those who want to discuss adult-child sexual relationships. Somehow I doubt it. On the scale of repulsive human ideas, is that worse that Nazis advocating extermination of degenerates.)

In short, maybe the government shouldn't be allowed to jail you for an idea, but that doesn't mean that publishers should be obligated to propagate them either. I don't think that's what the free speech doctrine implies. I could be talking through my hat here, I'm not a constitutional lawyer and I'm not even a US citizen.

When the algorithms of youtube push Alex Jones videos to the fore so that a critical mass of village idiots decide to go hound the people whose kids were murdered, I do not believe that Jones' right to free speech extends so far that it's ok to threaten innocent victims. Imo, that's way past the purview of free speech or participating in the free market of ideas. Sure, they sued and won, but did they get their money yet? Was it ok for Jones' followers to hound them for ten years with no consequences?

In the old days, whacko ideas died at the bar, they didn't acquire large number followers in the town square. I think that pretending that social media is just an extension of the town square is an immature idea that needs more work. We've created something new and the wild west has produced very bad consequences.

As for neo-Nazi marches and the ACLU, while they were just marching and chanting, well, where's the real harm you could say. You could say that about "woke" too but some states have already legislated control over "woke" discussions in public schools and colleges. Didn't Florida give itself the right to remove some trans children from their parents in some circumstances? If the state has no right to interfere in public Nazi marches, how could it possibly have the right to interfere in the private lives of citizens.
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