Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

I hope you are not suggesting that the New York Post is a tabloid with a long record of unreliable reporting, because if you are, there are going to be a couple of people around here that are take umbrage at such a characterization, even though it is true.

To change the subject for a moment, I just got flipped on the TV and it looks like Bruce "Meandering Man" Castor, Trump's lawyer from Day One, who was wearing the gangster suit, has been replaced by another guy, let's just call him Yosemite Sam for the time being, because he was yelling at one of the slides, but anyway, he was whatabouting about all sorts of things that have nothing to do with Trump inciting an insurrection, just like Alan. This of course means he doesn't want to talk about Trump inciting an insurrection, which is understandable.

I guess you missed the NY Times article above that says the same thing about Cuomo and his secretary.  Even Cuomo's fellow Democrats are flipping out over it probably more than Republicans flipping out over insurrection. 

[faberryman]

Obviously she was put up to it.

Obviously?

[digitaldog]

That link posts to a new statement by the secretary backtracking from what she said earlier to rescue her boss Gov Cuomo.  Obviously she was put up to it. 

Obviously another assumption.

If there's an investigation, she'll be sworn to tell the truth, not some phoney press release that BS's the media and the public who really aren't fooled by it in any case.

If? You assume again, the press release is phony, or perhaps phoney. But whatever, as I've had to repeat and you've had to ignore, nothing you've provided backs up this being a reality:

Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives. 

No, not even the NY Post stated that but instead:

The bombshell findings could push the  DOH tally of 8,711 deaths to more than 13,000, based on a survey of 62 nursing homes that found the state undercounted the fatalities there by an average of 56 percent.

Again, you're confused between what is a legitimate need for clarity (the inaccurate death rate, the state undercounted the fatalities) AND an action you believe resulted in 13,000 deaths. A belief you can't prove to others because it is just your belief based on (obviously  ) assumptions. Again.
NO WHERE, in anything you've posted, because it's untrue and you can't find it, does it state that "Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid."
Did 13,000 die? At this time, that isn't under debate. Did 13,000 die directly due to "Cuomo of  NY created this situation"? ZERO proof of such an assumption.
Enough said; when you have actual verifiable data, that Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid, do provide it.

[faberryman]

I guess you missed the NY Times article above that says the same thing about Cuomo and his secretary.

Did you read the full article or stop halfway through?

[faberryman]

I still can't understand how Cuomo screwing up, assuming he did screw up, has anything to do with Trump screwing up. Could you move on to Newsom, European leaders, Fauci, the CDC, the Chinese, and everyone. Not that they have anything to do with Trump screwing up either, but we could all use a change of pace.

[Alan Klein]

Obviously another assumption. If? You assume again, the press release is phony, or perhaps phoney. But whatever, as I've had to repeat and you've had to ignore, nothing you've provided backs up this being a reality:
No, not even the NY Post stated that but instead:
Again, you're confused between what is a legitimate need for clarity (the inaccurate death rate, the state undercounted the fatalities) AND an action you believe resulted in 13,000 deaths. A belief you can't prove to others because it is just your belief based on (obviously  ) assumptions. Again.
NO WHERE, in anything you've posted, because it's untrue and you can't find it, does it state that "Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid."
Did 13,000 die? At this time, that isn't under debate. Did 13,000 die directly due to "Cuomo of  NY created this situation"? ZERO proof of such an assumption.
Enough said; when you have actual verifiable data, that Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid, do provide it.

Did you read the full article or stop halfway through?

You both can't accept the fact that someone besides Trump, a Democrat governor, screwed up causing the Covid death of thousands, and then lied about the actual casualties, and tried to cover it up.  The press was so gullible because of their bias, they even gave him an Emmy for his Covid news conference performances on TV. What a joke

[Alan Klein]

I still can't understand how Cuomo screwing up, assuming he did screw up, has anything to do with Trump screwing up. Could you move on to Newsom, European leaders, Fauci, the CDC, the Chinese, and everyone. Not that they have anything to do with Trump screwing up either, but we could all use a change of pace.

We're talking about Cuomo.  There you go again with whataboutisms. 

[digitaldog]

You both can't accept the fact that someone besides Trump, a Democrat governor, screwed up causing the Covid death of thousands, and then lied about the actual casualties, and tried to cover it up.  The press was so gullible because of their bias, they even gave him an Emmy for his Covid news conference performances on TV. What a joke

On the other hand, you both can't accept the facts, nor prove them that "a Democrat governor, screwed up causing the Covid death of thousands." Zero proof. None, nada.
You can't even accept the facts from the URLs you sir, provided. The 'issue' is under counting deaths and reporting them. To you, that means all those deaths, reported or otherwise are a direct result of "a Democrat governor, screwed up causing the Covid death of thousands." Some may be kind to suggest that's a massive stretch in understanding and logic.
Cause and effect, something you really need to study before posting about this Democrat governor again.

Cause and effect is a relationship between events or things, where one is the result of the other or others. This is a combination of action and reaction.

How apparently your mind works:
Cause: NY under counted deaths in nursing homes. Effect: a Democrat governor, screwed up causing the Covid death of thousands. Rubbish. Unproven, misunderstood and assumed.
Again, because you don't seem to get what many of us are trying to state: Cause and effect is a relationship between events or things, where one is the result of the other or others.
There is NO relationship between reported or misreported deaths and WHO caused those deaths. I don’t know if you are purposely trying not to understand this, or if you are really struggling with it. Seems the later if I can be so kind.

[digitaldog]

Did you read the full article or stop halfway through?

All of half way? 
I did miss the bits in it where it states: A Democrat governor, screwed up causing the Covid death of thousands.

[faberryman]

We're talking about Cuomo.  There you go again with whataboutisms. 

We were talking about Trump's culpability before you whatabouted the discussion to Cuomo (and Newsom, European leaders, Dr. Fauci, the CDC, China, and "everyone"). I have been trying to get back to the original discussion, but you obviously don't want to talk about Trump's culpability.

Perhaps you would share with us the number of nursing home deaths which occurred between March 15, 2020 and May 10, 2020, as a direct result of Cuomo's order that nursing homes accept COVID patients discharged from hospitals. Let's see if we can nail down the magnitude of the calamity his order caused so we can put it in some sort of perspective. How many do you think there were, and please provide a link to the source of your information?

[digitaldog]

We were talking about Trump's culpability before you whatabouted the discussion to Cuomo (and Newsom, European leaders, Dr. Fauci, the CDC, China, and everyone). I have been trying to get back to the original discussion, but you obviously don't want to talk about Trump's culpability.

He is certainly unable to explain why, with about 4% of the worlds population, the US has about 25% of the deaths on the planet, from Covid-19. I gave him some possibilities like lots of stupid Americans, lack of leadership at the top but as yet, his 'ideas' of why this massive disproportionate horror exists in the US hasn't been answered, as expected.
Of course, in some people's 'minds', it can't be due to Trump and his administration... The buck never stops there. 

[Alan Klein]

We were talking about Trump's culpability before you whatabouted the discussion to Cuomo (and Newsom, European leaders, Dr. Fauci, the CDC, China, and "everyone"). I have been trying to get back to the original discussion, but you obviously don't want to talk about Trump's culpability.

Perhaps you would share with us the number of nursing home deaths which occurred between March 15, 2020 and May 10, 2020, as a direct result of Cuomo's order that nursing homes accept COVID patients discharged from hospitals. Let's see if we can nail down the magnitude of the calamity his order caused so we can put it in some sort of perspective.

Stay tuned.  More statistics are being revealed that will pin down how many thousands since there were 15,000 deaths approximately overall in these homes and facilities from MAr 1 to present.  It was substantial enough to get the NY governor to lie about them and try to cover it up.  Should we feel better if there were only hundreds?  The point is I've been saying for months, that most of the problems with Covid casualties were due to what governors have been doing, and not the Federal government.  NY is just one of the worst examples. 

[faberryman]

You both can't accept the fact that someone besides Trump, a Democrat governor, screwed up causing the Covid death of thousands, and then lied about the actual casualties, and tried to cover it up.

So are you saying Trump screwed up causing the death of thousands? If so, I think we should examine that at least as thoroughly as Cuomo, Newsome, European leaders, Dr. Fauci, China, and everyone.

[faberryman]

Stay tuned.  More statistics are being revealed that will pin down how many thousands since there were 15,000 deaths approximately overall in these homes and facilities from MAr 1 to present.  It was substantial enough to get the NY governor to lie about them and try to cover it up.  Should we feel better if there were only hundreds?  The point is I've been saying for months, that most of the problems with Covid casualties were due to what governors have been doing, and not the Federal government.  NY is just one of the worst examples.

So you don't know how many nursing home deaths were caused as a direct result of Cuomo's order? When do you anticipate that statistic will be revealed and by whom? I think we should feel better if it is only hundreds. I certainly will.

[Alan Klein]

I've already said everyone screwed up to a certain extent, even Trump.  But we're looking at it after it happened.  It's easy to Monday morning quarterback.  I'll even give Cuomo the benefit of the doubt.  I'm sure he had no intention of killing anyone and thought he was doing the right thing sending old people back home from hospitals.  It just turned out to be the worse thing to do.  Well, Trump made mistakes too.  He had other things to consider as well such as the economy.  Cuomo has said the same thing that he had to open up New York's economy or it would die.  It's the reason all states to one degree or another are opening up restaurants and other venues to prevent bankruptcies in their states.  And that complicated the disease spread. The problem is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. The whole thing became a political football.  The game still seems in play.

[Alan Klein]

So you don't know how many nursing home deaths were caused as a direct result of Cuomo's order? When do you anticipate that statistic will be revealed and by whom? I think we should feel better if it is only hundreds. I certainly will.

Oh stop it.  Do you think they'll find Cuomo's fingerprints on the bodies? He ordered thousands home from the hospitals.  You admitted that.  They were still sick with Covid and wound up spreading the disease to other residents.  Because all the residents were old, the deaths were enormous, certainly in the thousands.  How many would you want there to be before you consider Cuomo did the wrong thing? If it was no big deal, why was he hiding the actual numbers and then lying about it?  Even his secretary confirmed Cuomo's worry about a Federal investigation.

[digitaldog]

Stay tuned.

For what, more of your assumptions? 
You're going to find and report verifiable facts that:
"Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid".

I'm sure he had no intention of killing anyone and thought he was doing the right thing sending old people back home from hospitals.

And no proof of intention let alone a result.

The game still seems in play.

The game of making up stuff and unsuccessfully passing it off here? No need. Just provide some facts IF YOU CAN. 

So you don't know how many nursing home deaths were caused as a direct result of Cuomo's order?

No, he doesn't. That's now abundantly clear, to the two of us, perhaps more.

Oh stop it.  Do you think they'll find Cuomo's fingerprints on the bodies?

Yet you posted and seem to believe "Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid".
Thanks again for confirming you have no idea, that data and facts have no role in what you write about this.

[Alan Klein]

For what, more of your assumptions? 
You're going to find and report verifiable facts that:
"Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid".And no proof of intention let alone a result. The game of making up stuff and unsuccessfully passing it off here? No need. Just provide some facts IF YOU CAN.  No, he doesn't. That's now abundantly clear, to the two of us, perhaps more.  Yet you posted and seem to believe "Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid".
Thanks again for confirming you have no idea, that data and facts have no role in what you write about this.

You'll be the last person on earth who doesn't think Cuomo is culpable. Even he knows he is culpable.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have tried to hide the facts. 

[faberryman]

Oh stop it.  Do you think they'll find Cuomo's fingerprints on the bodies? He ordered thousands home from the hospitals. You admitted that.

Where did you get your figure of "thousands"? I have no idea how many patients the order affected, so you are mistaken when you say I admitted it was thousands. Might be, might not be. I thought most people in that age group died in the hospital, especially in those early days when the doctors didn't have experience threating them. So of those in that age group that did survive, how many were discharged from the hospital while still contagious? And of that group how many were then admitted to nursing homes?  And how many nursing home deaths can be attributed to that group of contagious COVID survivors discharged from the hospital, and not to another resident, healthcare worker or visitor?

They were still sick with Covid and wound up spreading the disease to other residents.  Because all the residents were old, the deaths were enormous, certainly in the thousands.

Please see my comments above. And again, where did you get your figure of "enormous, certainly in the thousands"? Surely you are relying on some data and not just pulling a number out of the air?

How many would you want there to be before you consider Cuomo did the wrong thing?

I have said several times that it was an error for Cuomo to have ordered nursing homes to accept COVID patients from hospitals who were still contagious. The order was in effect between March 25, 2020 and May 10, 2020, so we are looking at a finite time period.

We have spent two days whittling down your number of nursing home deaths caused Cuomo's order from 13,000 to now you don't know.

You waste everyone's time with your false facts and logical fallacies.

[digitaldog]

You'll be the last person on earth who doesn't think Cuomo is culpable.

More assumptions and generalizations; do you ever find a post made here, from your keyboard, is taken seriously? 
Culpable of what? WHEN and IF you can prove what you wrote is provided, of course I'll admit he's culpable. Believe it based on what you wrote earlier, worse, the provided outside references you posted that illustrated your ideas are not based on what you provided via URL, no way am I taking you seriously and that seems true of others. Ask yourself why that might be. Your posting history, be it about print resolution or politics is clear and baseless.

You made a statement that so far can only be accepted as is a figment of your imagination. I told you it was news to me. I asked you to educate me about:

"Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid".

It's still news to me, because you utterly failed to provide any evidence of this. WHEN YOU DO, I'll find Cuomo culpable of this act. Until you do, I'm not taking your statement seriously and others are not as well (a posting history can be a real bitch but, that's your burden).

Even he knows he is culpable. 

Can you please attempt to make a post here that isn't massively based on your own assumptions and imagination, please.

Otherwise, he wouldn't have tried to hide the facts.

Like you're hiding facts?
Where are the facts that:

Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives. 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." --Mark Twain