Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Well this just in Alan and I highly suspect, Biden isn't going to be spending this kind of money on 400 customized pens from China! 
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/blog/meet-press-blog-latest-news-analysis-data-driving-political-discussion-n988541/ncrd1257505#blogHeader
Your tax dollars at work:Yeah, that Trump dude was hard on China. 

They didn't buy the pens from China.  They bought the pens from Madden Branded Goods, a Lakeland, Florida supplier of pens and other office supplies who was probably on the state Deptpment's approved list of vendors.  When you order supplies in the government, you have to use their pre-approved vendors.

Also, there's no way for you to know that it was manufactured in China nor does it matter. You have to use the vendor.  It's like buying a Nikon lens from your approved vendor, B&H Photo in NYC,  that was manufactured in China.  NBC, an anti-Trump media who published the article,  is just Cherry picking silly things to go after Republicans.   They've been faking out the anti-Trump public for five years.

 

[digitaldog]

They didn't buy the pens from China.  They bought the pens from Madden Branded Goods, a Lakeland, Florida supplier of pens and other office supplies who was probably on the state Deptpment's approved list of vendors. 

What the emails show from State Department:

At about $26 each, each pen was embossed with the Madison Diner logo.The emails show State Department officials engaged in lengthy conversations with a Florida-based vendor for pens embossed in China and shipped from there to Chicago before being routed to Washington, the documents show.

What part of "Pompeo State Department spent $10k on “Madison Dinner” pens shipped from China." was not clear?

NBC, an anti-Trump media who published the article,  is just Cherry picking silly things to go after Republicans.

Everting reported above is from the State dept. Nice try. 

[digitaldog]

NBC, an anti-Trump media who published the article,  is just Cherry picking silly things to go after Republicans.   They've been faking out the anti-Trump public for five years.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/538445-pompeo-spent-10k-on-engraved-pens-for-guests-at-madison-dinners-crew
And The Hill **must be one of those anti-trump media players of fake news too?

CREW also released emails detailing discussions regarding the purchases that revealed a sense of urgency conveyed by State Department employees tasked with obtaining the pens. In response, the company revealed that the pens were manufactured and engraved in China before being shipped to Chicago, thereby increasing the time it would take to acquire them.

“When is the soonest you could get the sample to us by?” one State Department employee wrote to Madden Branded Goods in an email obtained by CREW. “Would it expedite things to send one of the pens we already have to have ‘Madison Dinners’ added to the barrel, as opposed to having a whole new pen made?”

“Completed decorated product(s) ship from China to [an] airport hub in Chicago," the company responded. "We are unable to ship from China facility directly to customer due to customs issues, etc.”

**

A significant part of the publication’s appeal is the perception of its non-partisanship. According to a 2020 Knight Foundation study, The Hill is generally read by a moderate audience, leaning slightly toward the right.[7] As of 2020, it is the largest independent political news site in the United States, is second in online political news readership behind CNN[8], and is the third most-Tweeted U.S. news source.[9]

”Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
John Adams

[Alan Klein]

What the emails show from State Department:What part of "Pompeo State Department spent $10k on “Madison Dinner” pens shipped from China." was not clear?Everting reported above is from the State dept. Nice try. 

So the pens were made in China.  I explained that.  (By the way, the particular model, Calais, is "made" by AT Cross of century-old American firm located in Rhode Island.)  In any case, the US government buys all sorts of stuff from China including K95 masks.  Just because we have tariffs on certain products of theirs doesn't mean we stopped trading with them any more than we stopped with other countries where tariffs are imposed.   We buy their pens and other crap.  And they buy food and lumber from us.  That's how trade works.  Does Cross even make pens in the USA any more?  Well, we still make pillows.  OF course, the cotton for them comes from Egypt, fortunately still an ally until Biden gets done.

[digitaldog]

You missed the point again Alan. Biden simply isn’t going to spend $10,000 of taxpayer money buying pens to give away to his friends. From China or otherwise. But if he’s going to give away $10,000 worth of pens using taxpayer money, let them be pens made in the USA.
Now which former president said he was going to go out of his way to buy America and lied in doing so? Oh yeah the only president to ever be impeached twice.
I can only imagine your outrage if Barack Obama had bought $10,000 worth of pens for his buddies using taxpayer dollars. Pens made in China no less.

[Alan Klein]

You missed the point again Alan. Biden simply isn’t going to spend $10,000 of taxpayer money buying pens to give away to his friends. From China or otherwise. But if he’s going to give away $10,000 worth of pens using taxpayer money, let them be pens made in the USA.
Now which former president said he was going to go out of his way to buy America and lied in doing so? Oh yeah the only president to ever be impeached twice.

Do you really think all the bunting, flags, and other paraphernalia used during the Biden inauguration were all made in the good old USA? That none of it was made in China?  How about Biden's White House photographer.  Do you think none of his lenses were made in China?  The point about NBC or the outfit that got the "scoop" on the pens, is that they'll never investigate stuff like that because they'll protect Biden.  The problem is also that the government gets bids from vendors who supply goods to the government.  So Madden is a US supplier.  Of course, much of their stuff is made overseas.  The US government would not be able to find an office supplier that doesn't;t get much of its stuff from overseas, a lot from China. Unless Congress passes a law that changes it to force government agencies to buy only American products, they have to go with the lowest bidders to avoid collusion.  Of course, it's an optics issue.  But not much the State dept can do about buying procedures.  Even the president or Secretary of State can't change the procedure.  It has to be an act of Congress. 

[digitaldog]

Do you really think all the bunting, flags, and other paraphernalia used during the Biden inauguration were all made in the good old USA? That none of it was made in China?  How about Biden's White House photographer.  Do you think none of his lenses were made in China?  The point about NBC or the outfit that got the "scoop" on the pens, is that they'll never investigate stuff like that because they'll protect Biden.  The problem is also that the government gets bids from vendors who supply goods to the government.  So Madden is a US supplier.  Of course, much of their stuff is made overseas.  The US government would not be able to find an office supplier that doesn't;t get much of its stuff from overseas, a lot from China. Unless Congress passes a law that changes it to force government agencies to buy only American products, they have to go with the lowest bidders to avoid collusion.  Of course, it's an optics issue.  But not much the State dept can do about buying procedures.  Even the president or Secretary of State can't change the procedure.  It has to be an act of Congress.

You missed the point again then again Alan. I’m not suggesting that the Biden is administration must buy everything made in America.Biden simply isn’t going to spend $10,000 of taxpayer money buying pens to give away to his friends. From China or otherwise.
But if he does give anything away in a similar fashion, please let us know.

[Alan Klein]

You missed the point again then again Alan. I’m not suggesting that the Biden is administration must buy everything made in America.Biden simply isn’t going to spend $10,000 of taxpayer money buying pens to give away to his friends. From China or otherwise.
But if he does give anything away in a similar fashion, please let us know.

I wouldn't commit to that if I was you.  Presidents and other politicians are always having confabs where all their dinner guests get a little souvenir courtesy of the US taxpayer.  In any case, the main issue is that Biden so far at least is continuing the tariffs on China that Democrats and Biden castigated Trump for imposing.  Of course, he's doing it "differently" so as not to seem that he approves of tariffs while actually approving them.  Typical politician doublespeak.   

[digitaldog]

I wouldn't commit to that if I was you. 

Where did I commit to that Alan? I said, if he does, you should let us know. Just like I asked you to explain several comments about Covid-19, (So please provide some outside factual reference that shows Cuomo was totally responsible for 13000 'old' people dying of Covid-19. IF Alan, you have data that illustrates The Lancet is way off, you can provide it at any time.etc) I don't expect you'll provide answers.

In any case, the main issue is that Biden so far at least is continuing the tariffs on China that Democrats and Biden castigated Trump for imposing.

He's not doing some things, he's changing some things, two of us asked you to re-read, the article you posted more carefully because the first part of this sentence is key.

Of course, he's doing it "differently" so as not to seem that he approves of tariffs while actually approving them.

I'll ask you to explain, factually, after you explain, factually, the last set of (Covid-19) questions asked about your comments.

[Alan Klein]

Where did I commit to that Alan? I said, if he does, you should let us know. Just like I asked you to explain several comments about Covid-19, (So please provide some outside factual reference that shows Cuomo was totally responsible for 13000 'old' people dying of Covid-19. IF Alan, you have data that illustrates The Lancet is way off, you can provide it at any time.etc) I don't expect you'll provide answers. He's not doing some things, he's changing some things, two of us asked you to re-read, the article you posted more carefully because the first part of this sentence is key. I'll ask you to explain, factually, after you explain, factually, the last set of (Covid-19) questions asked about your comments.

Here's an AP article released 9 minutes ago indicating 9000 sick old people were sent under the directive of NY Gov Cuomo from hospitals back to their homes in assisted living care facilities contributing to the death of thousands.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-andrew-cuomo-us-news-coronavirus-pandemic-nursing-homes-512cae0abb55a55f375b3192f2cdd6b5

[digitaldog]

Here's an AP article released 9 minutes ago indicating 9000 sick old people were sent under the directive of NY Gov Cuomo from hospitals back to their homes in assisted living care facilities contributing to the death of thousands.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-andrew-cuomo-us-news-coronavirus-pandemic-nursing-homes-512cae0abb55a55f375b3192f2cdd6b5

Ah, so a video released 9 minutes ago, about 3-4 hours after your claim that "13000 old people died of Covid because of Cuomo"; you're only 4000 short in total number of old people with as yet and no data of those who actually died.
You do understand that 9000 sick old people sent under the directive of NY Gov Cuomo is different than your claim that 13000 old people died of Covid because of Cuomo?
Do a bit more research then get back to us with facts to backup what you wrote please.

[LesPalenik]

I wouldn't commit to that if I was you.  Presidents and other politicians are always having confabs where all their dinner guests get a little souvenir courtesy of the US taxpayer.  In any case, the main issue is that Biden so far at least is continuing the tariffs on China that Democrats and Biden castigated Trump for imposing.  Of course, he's doing it "differently" so as not to seem that he approves of tariffs while actually approving them.  Typical politician doublespeak.

Biden was quite clear in addressing his stand on China.

While Xi has called for “win-win” cooperation, Biden has called China America’s “most serious competitor” and vowed to “out compete” Beijing.

On Thursday, Biden told a bipartisan group of U.S. senators at a meeting on the need to upgrade U.S. infrastructure the United States must raise its game in the face of the Chinese challenge. Biden said he spoke to Xi for two hours on Wednesday night and warned the senators: “If we don’t get moving, they are going to eat our lunch.”

“They’re investing billions of dollars dealing with a whole range of issues that relate to transportation, the environment and a whole range of other things. We just have to step up.”

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china/china-will-eat-our-lunch-biden-warns-after-clashing-with-xi-on-most-fronts-idUSKBN2AB06A?il=0

[Alan Klein]

Ah, so a video released 9 minutes ago, about 3-4 hours after your claim that "13000 old people died of Covid because of Cuomo"; you're only 4000 short in total number of old people with as yet and no data of those who actually died.
You do understand that 9000 sick old people sent under the directive of NY Gov Cuomo is different than your claim that 13000 old people died of Covid because of Cuomo?
Do a bit more research then get back to us with facts to backup what you wrote please.

Excuse me, you check the figures. The numbers changed based on the latest information uncovered today by the AP. You're brushing off 9000 because 13000 wasn;t the actual number?    9000 don't count?  In any case, those are the ones sent back not the deaths.  After all, people got infected from these people and died.  So thousands more died. 

Now I've just learned that Cuomo hid the real numbers because he was fearful of a federal investigation.  His private secretary admitted it.  Here's the article.  Why would you protect Cuomo?  Oh.  So you could blame Trump.
https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/cuomo-aide-admits-they-hid-nursing-home-data-from-feds/

[Alan Klein]

Biden was quite clear in addressing his stand on China.
 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china/china-will-eat-our-lunch-biden-warns-after-clashing-with-xi-on-most-fronts-idUSKBN2AB06A?il=0

That's his current stand as president, that China is eating our lunch. It's a complete turnaround of his feeling expressed during the campaign and before when he laughed at China eating our lunch. 

MAY 1, 2019: “China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man,” the former vice president said.

“I mean, you know, they’re not bad folks, folks. But guess what? They’re not competition for us,” he added.

Watch the video.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-s-comments-downplaying-china-threat-u-s-fires-pols-n1001236

[digitaldog]

Excuse me, you check the figures.

What figures, the ones you may have made up?
Let's take this in small, bite size pieces because as Strother Martin said "What we have is a failure to communicate".
You, Alan Klein wrote today, hours ago:

Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives. 

I've asked you to provide proof that this happened; 13000 old people actually did die of Covid-19 because of his directive.
You provided a link to a video that says 9000 sick old people were sent, under the directive of NY Gov Cuomo from hospitals back to their homes in assisted living care facilities contributing to the death of thousands.
Exactly how many thousands, your video does not provide!

The numbers changed based on the latest information uncovered today by the AP.

What numbers changed with respect to your statement that "13000 old people died of Covid because of Gov Cuomo"? In fact, what proof have you provided that 13000 old people died of Covid because of Gov Cuomo?

You're brushing off 9000 because 13000 wasn;t the actual number?

No, I'm brushing off your statement that so far, has zero proof of concept. 9000 people being moved doesn't equal 9000 people dying and 13000 was your (made up?) number of not people moved, but old people dying.

In any case, those are the ones sent back not the deaths.

Sent back is moot. Are you're going here on record that all 9000 died. Yes or no? If not, what's that got to do with your statement of 13000 deaths due to being set back of which you haven't proven?

After all, people got infected from these people and died.  So thousands more died. 

How many exactly? Provide an accurate figure, not an assumption and back up the accurate figure with data anyone here can check.

Why would you protect Cuomo?

I'm not. I'm also not protecting you from making stuff up.
You say you want respect. Fine. You tell us:

Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives. 

IS that statement true, accurate or not? If you believe it's true, show the proof. IF it ends up being provable, I'll respect that you can post factual data today. Can you?

[Alan Klein]

Cuomo is in trouble, possibly his political future ruined.  You look up the figures. 

[digitaldog]

Cuomo is in trouble, possibly his political future ruined.  You look up the figures.

Alan is in trouble, possibly his future of getting respect from readers due to statements he seems to have made up. Of course I'll take all that back, add some respect and an apology once you can prove this statement isn't just creative fiction:

Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives. 

Go man! 

[Alan Klein]

I'll let people read the articles themselves and draw their own conclusions.  Cuomo sent by legal directive, sick old people in hospitals back to their homes in assisted living facilities and allowed the disease to spread there killing thousands.  He blamed the Federal government for his decisions and had the numbers undercounted and then lied about it.

13,000
Cuomo comes clean: NY admits COVID nursing home deaths are 43% percent HIGHER than previously thought at nearly 13,000 - as Republicans demand ALL the information and accuse the governor of 'outrageous' cover up
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9200051/New-York-State-admits-nearly-13000-COVID-nursing-home-deaths-MONTHS-claiming-8500-died.html

Lie and Coverup
Now I've just learned that Cuomo hid the real numbers because he was fearful of a federal investigation.  His private secretary admitted it.  Here's the article.  Why would you protect Cuomo?  Oh.  So you could blame Trump.
https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/cuomo-aide-admits-they-hid-nursing-home-data-from-feds/

[digitaldog]

I'll let people read the articles themselves and draw their own conclusions.  Cuomo sent by legal directive, sick old people in hospitals back to their homes in assisted living facilities and allowed the disease to spread there killing thousands.  He blamed the Federal government for his decisions and had the numbers undercounted and then lied about it.

So to finish, you cannot show us that this statement is factual:

Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives. 

I'll let people read what you wrote, that you can't prove, themselves and draw their own conclusions about your writings.

NY admits COVID nursing home deaths are 43% percent HIGHER than previously thought at nearly 13,000 - as Republicans demand ALL the information and accuse the governor of 'outrageous' cover up

Ah, so you found something with a value 13000, that doesn't backup what you wrote and quoted above and below. You saw 13000 and just assumed they all died by being moved, the article speaks of HIGHER than previously thought.
Can you tell us why, in the future, we shouldn't keep fact checking what you write?

[faberryman]

What does any of this have to do with Trump's culpability?

Don’t go down Alan’s Cuomo rabbit hole. As you have already noted, it is filled with false facts and logical fallacies.