Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[faberryman]

Well, i tried, I gave you a chance.  So my only possible conclusion is that you are irredeemable and there is no point in engaging with you. Despite Josh's plea, you haven't changed, so that's it.

The only reason we are talking about Cuomo and nursing home deaths is that Alan didn't want to talk about Trump's culpability, so he used the logical fallacy of whataboutism to deflect the conversation away from Trump and towards Cuomo. This whole kerfuffle is not really about Cuomo and nursing home deaths. That is just the pretext. It is about Alan not being able to tolerate any criticism of Trump.

Governors are responsible for opening and closing venues, not the federal government or Trump . Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives.  Is gov Newsom responsible for all the California deaths? Did Europeans die because they listened to Trump?

It's not like we didn't try.

About your point that "Everyone here was blaming Trump": poor Donald Trump; poor poor Donald Trump. Can we all have a big boo-hoo cry-along for poor Donald Trump. Whenever anyone hurts your feelings because they point out the Trump has made an error, or a series of errors, or has created a complete clusterfuck of a situation, or is generally a despicable human being, you have to jump to his defense and deflect the conversation away from Trump with whatabouts. Do you realize how many whatabouts you have done in less that 24 hours? Well, there was Cuomo, Newsome, European leaders, the CDC, Fauci, the Chinese, and ...wait for it... wait for it... everyone in the world. Yes, you whatabouted everyone in the world. Did I mention that whatabouts are logical fallacies?

[Robert Roaldi]

Here is some testimony about the Capitol hill insurrection that I had not heard before, maybe others have https://www.propublica.org/article/i-dont-trust-the-people-above-me-riot-squad-cops-open-up-about-disastrous-response-to-capitol-insurrection/amp?__twitter_impression=true.

(I'm using the word insurrection because I can't think of another word. Is there a more acceptable unloaded term to use to avoid any distracting triggering?)

[faberryman]

(I'm using the word insurrection because I can't think of another word. Is there a more acceptable unloaded term to use to avoid any distracting triggering?)

"Incident" maybe? You have your choice between inaccurate and loaded.

[Alan Klein]

Well, i tried, I gave you a chance.  So my only possible conclusion is that you are irredeemable and there is no point in engaging with you. Despite Josh's plea, you haven't changed, so that's it.

Again you resort to an ad hominem personal attack rather than presenting facts to disprove my points. 

[Alan Klein]

The only reason we are talking about Cuomo and nursing home deaths is that Alan didn't want to talk about Trump's culpability, so he used the logical fallacy of whataboutism to deflect the conversation away from Trump and towards Cuomo. This whole kerfuffle is not really about Cuomo and nursing home deaths. That is just the pretext. It is about Alan not being able to tolerate any criticism of Trump.

It's not like we didn't try.

It about double standards of the left, not whataboutism.  You're quick to blame the other side but refuse to take responsibility when your side screws up. 

[jeremyrh]

Again you resort to an ad hominem personal attack rather than presenting facts to disprove my points.

Talk to the hand, Alan.

[PeterAit]

Your constant charges of calling me a liar are getting old, Frank. Lay off the personal attacks or our conversation ends.  If you have data that contradicts my points or rebuts errors I may have made, or you disagree with my opinions, certainly you should present them.  But implying that I'm a liar is unacceptable. Same goes for Andrew.

I do not believe that Alan is a liar. That means to intentionally say things you know to be false. But Alan actually believes this stuff! So, there's no lying. Just woefully uninformed and gullible, willing to believe anything that supports his right-wing views.

[Alan Klein]

I do not believe that Alan is a liar. That means to intentionally say things you know to be false. But Alan actually believes this stuff! So, there's no lying. Just woefully uninformed and gullible, willing to believe anything that supports his right-wing views.

Just like Jeremy, an ad hominem attack on me. If my facts are wrong, show your evidence. A jury would laugh you out of the court if all you presented was your claim the prosecutor is a liar. 

[digitaldog]

Again you resort to an ad hominem personal attack rather than presenting facts to disprove my points.

Just like Jeremy, an ad hominem attack on me. If my facts are wrong, show your evidence. A jury would laugh you out of the court if all you presented was your claim the prosecutor is a liar.

And now three pages trying to explain to Alan what ad hominem actually means.
Our attempt to explain the difference between those who post misinformation out of ignorance and lying didn't sink in. 
His jury of peers here, if I can be so kind, have found him guilty of this and more.
I rest my case.

[Alan Klein]

And now three pages trying to explain to Alan what ad hominem actually means.
Our attempt to explain the difference between those who post misinformation out of ignorance and lying didn't sink in. 
His jury of peers here, if I can be so kind, have found him guilty of this and more.
I rest my case.

See my last post.

[digitaldog]

I do not believe that Alan is a liar. That means to intentionally say things you know to be false. But Alan actually believes this stuff! So, there's no lying. Just woefully uninformed and gullible, willing to believe anything that supports his right-wing views.

+1, as several of us have attempted and failed to explain to him. Woefully uninformed and gullible:

[Peter McLennan]

I do not believe that Alan is a liar. That means to intentionally say things you know to be false. But Alan actually believes this stuff! So, there's no lying. Just woefully uninformed and gullible,

Yes, he is.  Just like that seventy-odd million Trump supporters that he keeps referring to.  Woefully uninformed and demonstrably gullible.

[digitaldog]

See my last post.

It's rubbish like so many others you have provided, as so many here have tried to explain.
"An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head." -Eric Hoffer 

[Rhossydd]

I rest my case.

Please do. Feeding trolls isn't a good look.

[Peter McLennan]

Alan, nobody hates you. We don't even know you.  Its just that you refuse to engage with logic, fact and clarity.  Instead, you demonstrate obfuscation, untruths and blind conviction.

Time and time again, when your errors of fact and judgement are pointed out, you claim personal insult. Your autovictimization does nothing to advance your points of view.

If you once, just once, instead of stonewalling, attempted to engage logically and clearly the criticisms leveled at you and Republicans, the discussions here would prove much more fruitful and valuable. 

As it is, as many have pointed out, these discussions with you are a waste of keystrokes.

Including, probably, these.

[faberryman]

It about double standards of the left, not whataboutism.  You're quick to blame the other side but refuse to take responsibility when your side screws up.

I am not on the left. I don't care one way or the other about Cuomo. I am not on his side. I have not defended him. I have said several times that his order was a mistake. All of those are false allegations on your part. False allegations. Caused, I might add, by the logical fallacy of black and white thinking. I suppose this is where I should set my hair on fire and whine about ad hominen attacks. I'll pass.

What I care about are false facts and logical fallacies in these discussions. And you seem to be generating most of them.

I have said several times that it was an error for Cuomo to have ordered nursing homes to accept COVID patients from hospitals who were still contagious. The order was in effect between March 25, 2020 and May 10, 2020, so we are looking at a finite time period.

We have spent two days whittling down your number of nursing home deaths caused Cuomo's order from 13,000 to now you don't know.

You waste everyone's time with your false facts and logical fallacies.

[digitaldog]

Please do. Feeding trolls isn't a good look.

Indeed, but now you're in trouble for “implying” you know who is (also) a troll. 😱

[LesPalenik]

Here is some testimony about the Capitol hill insurrection that I had not heard before, maybe others have https://www.propublica.org/article/i-dont-trust-the-people-above-me-riot-squad-cops-open-up-about-disastrous-response-to-capitol-insurrection/amp?__twitter_impression=true.

(I'm using the word insurrection because I can't think of another word. Is there a more acceptable unloaded term to use to avoid any distracting triggering?)

Quite horrific. The response by the police chiefs could be called "extreme incompetence" or "organized sabotage".

[Alan Klein]

+1, as several of us have attempted and failed to explain to him. Woefully uninformed and gullible:

It's rubbish like so many others you have provided, as so many here have tried to explain.
"An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head." -Eric Hoffer

Please do. Feeding trolls isn't a good look.

Alan, nobody hates you. We don't even know you.  Its just that you refuse to engage with logic, fact and clarity.  Instead, you demonstrate obfuscation, untruths and blind conviction.

Time and time again, when your errors of fact and judgement are pointed out, you claim personal insult. Your autovictimization does nothing to advance your points of view.

If you once, just once, instead of stonewalling, attempted to engage logically and clearly the criticisms leveled at you and Republicans, the discussions here would prove much more fruitful and valuable. 

As it is, as many have pointed out, these discussions with you are a waste of keystrokes.

Including, probably, these.

Everyone of you engaging in personal attacks and name calling rather than showing facts that disprove the evidence I presented.     

[digitaldog]

Everyone of you engaging in personal attacks and name calling rather than showing facts that disprove the evidence I presented.     

Pure fantasy as usual.
No soup or respect for you. 😘