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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 52920 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2520 on: October 17, 2020, 05:10:09 pm »

Sure.  Are you talking about the "Set aside 10% for the big guy" stuff?  Hasn't Biden already released his tax records? We'd know if he had any shady outside income or cashflow from unexplainable LLCs wouldn't we? Does he have any business or foreign financial entanglements now?  Again, easy to check I think.
Ten Percenters don't report their cash earnings on their tax returns.

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2521 on: October 17, 2020, 05:12:48 pm »

Let me clarify for you pretty simply.  I was not a Clinton supporter and thought when the email stuff surfaced that she would have a difficult time winning.  When Wiener's laptop ended up having all the emails on it because of Huma Abedine's stupidity that sealed it.  I never had any faith at all in the Steele dossier and the Hunter Biden stuff is even weaker as the Steele piece did have some truthful points in it.  I don't give anybody a pass and never have.  I will not vote for serial liars ever.

Is this clear enough?
Goad to hear you're being fair-minded.  Now if only the press would do the same thing.

Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2522 on: October 17, 2020, 05:59:28 pm »

I don't think I ever commented on that one.  I can only go by what official sources say.  Attorney General Barr has had two people looking into the 2016 business.  The first report came back last week and showed nothing and the second won't be ready, if it ever is, until after the election.  The bi-partisan Senate Intelligence Committee issued a six volume report that pretty much documented all the Russian influence in 2016.  Whether any of that monkey business made a difference in President Trump's election is and will always be an open question.  It also should be pointed out that the dossier you refer to was initially funded during the Republican Party primary by Trump opposition:  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/us/politics/steele-dossier-trump-expained.html   Stuff is always more complicated than either you or I would like to think.

It has come to my attention that your are Jewish and I apologize for my Grammar Nazi comment.  I now understand why that is quite offensive to you.

I'm sorry.
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2523 on: October 17, 2020, 06:15:04 pm »

Political Satire (or is it?)

The Modern Guide to Hypnosis

Chapter 4 - Hypnosis for Controlling Media Coverage and/or for Political Gain

Example #1 - Start with even tone of voice and gradually increase volume and intensity: Emails-Crooked Hillary-email server-Crooked Hillary emails-State Department emails-Crooked Hillary-private emails-FBI emails-laptop emails

Keep your eyes on the watch: Email scandal-Hillary-lock her up-DNC-hacked emails-WikiLeaks emails.

Now close your eyes. Don't think about Russia. Just keep listening: You're entering a Deep State of relaxation-Deep State-emails-Lock her UP!-emails-Deep State

You're getting Sleepy now: Biden-Sleepy Joe-Emails-Hunter-Ukraine-emails-Hunter Biden emails-Crooked Biden-emails-Hunter laptop-emails laptop-Biden Emails-Crooked Biden-emails-FBI emails-laptop emails


Continue repetition until subject is completely relaxed and willing to accept any suggestion that you make without hesitation.
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James Clark

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2524 on: October 17, 2020, 06:17:28 pm »

Would we? Do you think if he was taking cash like this it would show up on his 1040? 

I donít know if this is true or not.  What I do know is the media sure as hell does not want to find out and they want to make sure the story has no legs.  Donít you think it might be a good thing to check it out?

Everything I'm reading is saying that they were discussing an equity deal.   And how do you know that it's NOT being checked out? 
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2525 on: October 17, 2020, 06:19:38 pm »

Everything I'm reading is saying that they were discussing an equity deal.   And how do you know that it's NOT being checked out?

I don't know, and thats the point.  No one does at this point.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2526 on: October 17, 2020, 06:25:11 pm »

I don’t know if this is true or not.  What I do know is the media sure as hell does not want to find out and they want to make sure the story has no legs.  Don’t you think it might be a good thing to check it out?

Is the right bereft of media of its own? What are your go to sources for news? Do they have any reporting on this story I should read?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 06:41:05 pm by faberryman »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2527 on: October 17, 2020, 06:44:45 pm »

Is the right bereft of media of its own? What are your usual sources for news?

I read a plethora of sources, both left and right, but mostly left as that is what you find. My first stop every morning is the MSNBC webpage.

I do also use a couple of aggregators both leaning right.

I don't watch network news, except for Bret Baier on Fox during dinner.  For opinion I watch Martha and Tucker on Fox.  When things are breaking or after big events like a debate I usually switch to CNN or MSNBS to hear their take, much to my wifes chagrin.
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Chris Kern

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2528 on: October 17, 2020, 06:47:02 pm »

Excuse me.  But I've contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars for Medicare and Social Security over my working life and my employers have matched those amounts dollar for dollar.

Those were taxes, not contributions.  You were paying taxes to support the old-age and medical benefits of employees who retired before you did.  In return for the taxes you and your employers paid, you became entitled to receive payments when you retired.  Younger people who are currently working pay taxes to support the old-age and medical benefits you receive.

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2529 on: October 17, 2020, 06:51:28 pm »

So Infowars has updated its website.  The new headline is:

Confirmed: Trump Has Footage Of Hunter Biden Raping And Torturing Little Girls — Set To Release

https://www.infowars.com/posts/confirmed-trump-has-footage-of-hunter-biden-raping-and-torturing-little-girls-set-to-release/

it looks like they have a live video of Alex Jones' radio show and he is saying all kinds of stuff. You might want to listen in, or not.

Here is the summary:

"Alex Jones breaks down the bombshell developments surrounding Hunter Biden’s hard drive, which allegedly contain thousands of images and videos of sexually explicit material, including Hunter raping and torturing underage Chinese girls. President Trump is reportedly in possession of Hunter’s hard drive and is preparing to release it to the public."

That text summary does say "allegedly" and "reportedly" so maybe he doesn't know everything he says he knows when he is talking about it on the video feed. I have been listening to it for a while and he hasn't said allegedly or reportedly yet. In my judgment, this guy is probably not going to convert a lot of undecideds.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 07:15:16 pm by faberryman »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2530 on: October 17, 2020, 07:52:15 pm »

Joe Biden said the other night that Police need to learn how to de-esclate...instead of shooting to kill they should just shoot the perp in the leg.  Police are not to happy with old Joe, saying that it just puts cops lives in danger. Often a wounded perp will not go down as this story shows.

Why this officer carries 145 rounds of 45 while on duty. (Short video with an amazing story)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdjcYjSsIok
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2531 on: October 17, 2020, 08:19:10 pm »

Here are a couple of articles from The Daily Beast.  The first one contains an hour long audio recording of their interview with the computer repair guy, John Paul Mac Issac; the other is based on an interview with Giuliani.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-who-reportedly-gave-hunters-laptop-to-rudy-speaks-out-in-bizarre-interview

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rudy-giuliani-says-theres-only-5050-chance-i-worked-with-a-russian-spy-to-dig-dirt-on-bidens


Here is an article from NPR. As you might expect, it raises some questions about the veracity of the story.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924506867/analysis-questionable-n-y-post-scoop-driven-by-ex-hannity-producer-giuliani

You can read these articles or dismiss them out of hand. Your choice.

texshooter

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2532 on: October 18, 2020, 03:35:48 am »

If the computer repairman did not sell the hard drive for at least a million, he is as stupid as he is blind.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2533 on: October 18, 2020, 07:38:18 am »

I read a plethora of sources, both left and right, but mostly left as that is what you find. My first stop every morning is the MSNBC webpage.

I do also use a couple of aggregators both leaning right.

I don't watch network news, except for Bret Baier on Fox during dinner.  For opinion I watch Martha and Tucker on Fox.  When things are breaking or after big events like a debate I usually switch to CNN or MSNBS to hear their take, much to my wifes chagrin.
That's what I do and my wife is like yours.  I always switch to CNN and MSNBC if she's not around to see how they're reporting it.  You want to know what the competition is doing and thinking.

Google News on my computer has 80% negative articles on Trump.  The biggest spreaders of news however are probably the NY Times and Washington Post.  Many news media around the world read their bylines because they don't have their own news staff to get the news.  So they just repeat these papers' articles which are negative about Trump and slant the news.  It's why many people have certain opinions about him and the USA. Or they watch CNN or Bloomberg which are also left of center and negative Trump.

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2534 on: October 18, 2020, 08:03:46 am »

Those were taxes, not contributions.  You were paying taxes to support the old-age and medical benefits of employees who retired before you did.  In return for the taxes you and your employers paid, you became entitled to receive payments when you retired.  Younger people who are currently working pay taxes to support the old-age and medical benefits you receive.
But the point is it's our own money.  We earned it.  It didn't belong to the government or anyone else.  Had there been no SS or Medicare, I could have saved all that money with interest over my entire life for over 50 years that I worked.  Then I could have subsidized my own medical care and retirement and possible had money left over to leave to my heirs.  All that's happening now, is the government is giving me back my own money, only if I should live that long. My sister-in-law died at 59 and never got a dime back that they took from her. Nor my mom who died at 56. Or either of their heirs.

Plus, because the government really didn't set it aside but spent it, both programs are broke.  So they're going to have to raise these taxes on younger people which will lower their standard of living at a time when they need it to support growing families.  How is that fair?  It hurts the economy.  Of course, the government is going to lower SS payments and extend retirement ages. Right now, they tax 85% of it.  That will go to 100%.  NJ where I live currently does not tax SS.  Well, the state is broke too.  So I bet they'll start taxing it as well making it even harder for retired people to live who already don't have enough as it is. Add to that about zero interest rates on savings, money retired people always depended on, and the government has made a mess of it. 

William Walker

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2535 on: October 18, 2020, 08:50:50 am »

That's what I do and my wife is like yours.  I always switch to CNN and MSNBC if she's not around to see how they're reporting it.  You want to know what the competition is doing and thinking.

Google News on my computer has 80% negative articles on Trump.  The biggest spreaders of news however are probably the NY Times and Washington Post.  Many news media around the world read their bylines because they don't have their own news staff to get the news.  So they just repeat these papers' articles which are negative about Trump and slant the news.  It's why many people have certain opinions about him and the USA. Or they watch CNN or Bloomberg which are also left of center and negative Trump.

Alan, you seem to know a hell of lot about how "the rest of the world" works. I did not need anyone to tell me about what kind of person Donald Trump is: he has shown me himself. Everything my mother, and I am sure many other mothers, taught me not to be can be found in him.

Now let me tell you what I think of the United States: my father fought alongside Americans in Italy. I watched closely as a young boy what was going on in Vietnam (and was on your side). I listened (we had no TV in South Africa then) to the moon landings and shared in your pride. I believed you when you said you were the "greatest nation on earth" and that you had such a wonderful constitution and so on...  I always thought that the President of the United States would/should be the most respected person on earth - or at least strive to be.

I don't need any media, print or TV, to see or tell me what kind pf person is running your country - I see him with my own eyes and hear him with my own ears.

However, I believe that we will see massive numbers of "normal" Americans who will come out and vote in greater numbers than ever before to put and end to this strange time in your history and I look forward to the day when you once again take up your role as an example to other parts of the world.

James Carville wrote an inspiring article in "The Bulwark" a few days and I certainly don't expect you to read it - as much as you like telling us how like to "keep up with what the other side is doing", but here is the link anyway:

"We are constantly told that America is too divided, too hopelessly stricken by tribalism to come together anymore. Well, Iím here to proclaim that this received 'wisdom' is just plain wrong."- James Carville.

https://thebulwark.com/a-crusade-for-something-noble/

I wish you guys nothing but the best.

P.S. Please don't come back at me with something about "giving us money, or wasting your money". This is not about money, it's about respect, honour and decency.
We don't want your money...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 09:30:20 am by William Walker »
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2536 on: October 18, 2020, 09:19:28 am »

Well, I was thinking that if Biden wins, but the Senate stays in Republican hands, we are going to have four years of investigations into the Hunter Biden sex tapes and Ukraine/China emails. But of course you guys will revel in it and say it is sweet revenge for the Russia Hoax. But then I will point out that the Russia Hoax was sweet revenge for Benghazi. And then you will point out that Benghazi was sweet revenge for whatever there was before there was Benghazi. Before you know it, we'll be arguing the finer points of the Teapot Dome scandal because that is as far back as we can remember because we didn't really pay all that much attention in our American history class in the fourth grade. Of course, it's understandable. How could you possibly be expected to pay attention in American history class when you just noticed that the girl sitting in front of you was wearing a training bra? About the only saving grace will be that Biden probably won't call up Joe and Mika every morning and go off on an unhinged rant for two hours about whatever it is we are going to call the Hunter Biden sex tapes and Ukraine/China emails story. I think I'd just rather shoot myself and get it over with.

I think I may have mentioned that if Trump wins I am probably going to cancel my cable TV. Even if Biden wins, I may do the same. Go off grid. Maybe a nice cabin in the woods, with a big cellar where I can stash about four years of canned goods and dehydrated pizza. But I've got two weeks to go, and I was happy to see this morning that there were a couple of articles in the lame stream media about the Hunter Biden sex tapes and Ukraine/China emails. I won't summarize or link to them. I'm sure you are all over them like a duck on a june bug. I'd never heard that expression before but it was the first I'm all over it like a whatever that popped up on Google. I don't know where I've been. Probably trying to figure out whether Melania owns any socks. I don't think I've ever seen her in anything but high heels. Really high heels. I wonder if she had to wear a helmet and knee and elbow pads when she was learning to walk in those really high heels. That's kind of a parenting tip. Another parenting tip is to be sure and pick up your laptop after it has been repaired. I thought everyone knew that, but I guess there's always one guy that doesn't get the memo.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 10:35:01 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2537 on: October 18, 2020, 09:48:46 am »

Alan, you seem to know a hell of lot about how "the rest of the world" works. I did not need anyone to tell me about what kind of person Donald Trump is: he has shown me himself. Everything my mother, and I am sure many other mothers, taught me not to be can be found in him.

Now let me tell you what I think of the United States: my father fought alongside Americans in Italy. I watched closely as a young boy what was going on in Vietnam (and was on your side). I listened (we had no TV in South Africa then) to the moon landings and shared in your pride. I believed you when you said you were the "greatest nation on earth" and that you had such a wonderful constitution and so on...  I always thought that the President of the United States would/should be the most respected person on earth - or at least strive to be.

I don't need any media, print or TV, to see or tell me what kind pf person is running your country - I see him with my own eyes and hear him with my own ears.

However, I believe that we will see massive numbers of "normal" Americans who will come out and vote in greater numbers than ever before to put and end to this strange time in your history and I look forward to the day when you once again take up your role as an example to other parts of the world.

James Carville wrote an inspiring article in "The Bulwark" a few days and I certainly don't expect you to read it - as much as you like telling us how like to "keep up with what the other side is doing", but here is the link anyway:

"We are constantly told that America is too divided, too hopelessly stricken by tribalism to come together anymore. Well, Iím here to proclaim that this received 'wisdom' is just plain wrong."- James Carville.

https://thebulwark.com/a-crusade-for-something-noble/

I wish you guys nothing but the best.

P.S. Please don't come back at me with something about "giving us money, or wasting your money". This is not about money, it's about respect, honour and decency.
We don't want your money...

James Carville, a Democrat, was and is the Clinton family guy.  He worked for Bill Clinton, a president who was impeached, lost his lawyer's license for lying under oath, got BJ's in the Oval Office disgracing the presidency, abused women, and along with his wife Hillary, took millions of dollars using their position in government to sell access to kings and other countries. I wouldn't use Carville as an arbiter of decency. 

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2538 on: October 18, 2020, 09:57:11 am »

Well, I was thinking that if Biden wins, but the Senate stays in Republican hands, we are going to have four years of investigations of the Hunter Biden sex tapes and Ukraine/China emails. But of course you guys will revel in it and say it is sweet revenge for the Russia Hoax. But then I will point out that the Russia Hoax was sweet revenge for Benghazi. And then you will point out that Benghazi was sweet revenge for whatever there was before there was Benghazi. Before you know it, we'll be arguing the finer points of the Teapot Dome scandal because that is as far back as we remember because we didn't really pay all that much attention in our American history class in the fourth grade or whenever the last time we took American History was. About the only saving grace will be that Biden probably won't call up Joe and Mika every morning and go off on an unhinge rant for two hours about whatever we are going to call the Hunter Biden sex tapes and Ukraine/China emails story. I think I'd just rather shoot myself and get it over with.

I think I may have mentioned that if Trump wins I am probably going to cancel my cable TV. Even if Biden wins, I may do the same. Go off grid. Maybe a nice cabin in the woods, with a big cellar where I can stash about four years of canned goods and dehydrated pizza. But I've got two weeks to go, and I was happy to see this morning that there were a couple of articles in the lame street media about the Hunter Biden sex tapes and Ukraine/China emails. I won't summarize or link to them. I'm sure you are all over them like a duck on a june bug. I'd never heard that expression before but it was the first I'm all over it like a whatever that popped up on Google. I don't know where I've been. Probably trying to figure out whether Melania owns any socks. I don't think I've ever seen her in anything but high heels. Really high heels.
I hope the government stays divided between the two parties.  The worse thing to happen is when one party or the other takes over the Congress and presidency.  Then they act dictatorially.  No one listens to the other side and there's no compromising.  You saw that played out with Obamacare, Trump's tax legislation, and supreme court justices.

kers

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2539 on: October 18, 2020, 10:14:48 am »

James Carville, a Democrat, was and is the Clinton family guy.  He worked for Bill Clinton, a president who was impeached, lost his lawyer's license for lying under oath, got BJ's in the Oval Office disgracing the presidency, abused women, and along with his wife Hillary, took millions of dollars using their position in government to sell access to kings and other countries. I wouldn't use Carville as an arbiter of decency.
Alan, still - I don't see you as a Trump guy...
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