SureColor P9570

[deanwork]

Everything Kang-Wei described sounds exactly right from what I’ve heard from the resellers.
They released a complicated machine right in the middle of a pandemic.
It should be a really great printer once these paper feed issues are worked on in the hardware.

I guess right now you are pretty much ok as long as you aren’t feeding very thick or tightly cured media. I would probably be ok with what I use. But ANY head strikes can wreck these very expensive dual heads, so always be in warranty.

John

[MarcoFg]

Hi everyone, I did just subscribe, so first let me introduce myself.
My name is Marco. I manage a fine art printing lab in Naples. I use 2 Epson 9900. Over the years I have had, like many 9900 users, printhead problems, same kind everytime. I have read several times on this forum about delamination, that’s what I think it happened. On one printer in particular, the one I mainly use with MB, it’s the second time this happens, the first after 3/3 and a half years, in 2018, the second a few weeks ago. The one I use with PB needed a printhead change about 3 years ago and for the moment it works fine.
I’m writing here because at this point I have to decide whether to replace the printhead head or buy a p9500.
I have tried to carefully read all the threads regarding the x500 series, I have seen that many users have had problems, some solved over time with firmware updates, others that seem to go on. Overinking, feeding problems, end of roll handling problems, connectivity problems, roll loading problems, macOS users problems, trouble with the use of epson media installer (practically I mostly use Hahnemuhle papers). So the question is, arrived to October 2021, can I think about buying this printer with confidence?
I am still thinking about what to do… Both solutions have pros and cons.

Buy 9500
- Pros
New machine with hopefully longer printhead life related to 9900 model, also thanks to the chance of being able to personally make a better maintenance
2 different channels for MB and PB (the most important thing, obviously! at this point I could even think of owning only one printer even though it would always be better to have two printers in case of breakdowns)
- Cons
I am afraid that I may run into one or more of the problems listed or that I have to waste a lot of time setting up all the papers I use (with only one 9900 working I’m not fully operative)
Costs; the purchase of printers and inks plus paying people for carrying mean a considerable  cost to be faced in a short time

Replace the 9900 printhead
- Pros
Once the head has been replaced, as happened the last time, I'm ready to work! Just make new ICC profiles and go. I have all the settings ready.
I still have several 9900 ink cartridges, I would not have to spend money on different types of inks
- Cons
Replacing the head sounds uneconomical to me. Replacing the head twice is like you almost bought the printer twice! (cost of head, pump and damper replacement € 2300!). Assuming that the new head can work in the best scenario another three years, I don’t think the other 9900 will have that life, since the head is now three years old. I'd be back at the start! When it will happen, I would be forced to buy a new printer, replace the printhead for the fourth time would be crazy. so why don’t buy it now?

In short, one tiny voice tells me to buy the 9500, it would be wiser, but I'm terrified about wasting time, paper and inks if problems would arise with the new 9500. Soon I will have big works to do, I can not afford to have a printer that is not immediately operational
thanks to anybody who can give me advice on this.

Marco

[tharrington]

Hey Marco-
I’m almost at a year with the 9570 and it has worked pretty well for me. I’ve mentioned before that I use 44” Hahnemuhle FB rolls which is obviously thick paper. Feeding the paper all the way in and then pulling back an inch or so has pretty much eliminated issues. I always print with the extra margin on the leading edge and this seems to do fine with no head strikes. One thing that irritates me is not knowing what is addressed in firmware updates. The biggest issue I have is what happens if roll paper detaches from the tube when printing. This happens frequently with this Hahnemuhle paper. The tape they use to secure the roll is pathetic.  When this happens, the 9570 will feed around 10 feet of paper out.  Supposedly this is a bug that Epson has been aware of for many months.  They have yet to address the problem because it just happened again today. If Hahnemuhle would use better tape this would be a non issue- even with the bug still existing. 

[MfAlab]

The biggest issue I have is what happens if roll paper detaches from the tube when printing. This happens frequently with this Hahnemuhle paper. The tape they use to secure the roll is pathetic.  When this happens, the 9570 will feed around 10 feet of paper out.  Supposedly this is a bug that Epson has been aware of for many months.  They have yet to address the problem because it just happened again today. If Hahnemuhle would use better tape this would be a non issue- even with the bug still existing.

You should be happy. If the paper sticks firmly on the core, the printer might break “roll paper guide” on it's own. That's what my customer met, TWICE!

I’m writing here because at this point I have to decide whether to replace the printhead head or buy a p9500.
I have tried to carefully read all the threads regarding the x500 series, I have seen that many users have had problems, some solved over time with firmware updates, others that seem to go on. Overinking, feeding problems, end of roll handling problems, connectivity problems, roll loading problems, macOS users problems, trouble with the use of epson media installer (practically I mostly use Hahnemuhle papers). So the question is, arrived to October 2021, can I think about buying this printer with confidence?
I am still thinking about what to do… Both solutions have pros and cons.

For my experience, I will suggest getting a new head and stay on 9900. Wait 1~2 years until Epson fix most issues on P9500. Or, if you are lucky, the 9900 keeps working for 3~5 years. You can buy next model of P9500 which Epson already fix all problems.

[deanwork]

Personally I don’t think it makes sense to keep a 9900 running unless you are using third party inks in it.
After a printer series reaches a couple of generations behind they start raising the price of the inks to where it becomes unaffordable to keep using them. Then it becomes difficult to get inks, parts, etc.

If you are afraid to risk the 9570, I would definitely go with the Epson P 9000. It has better black inks, faster, improved, much more permanent inkset, and will be supported for much longer. They are also said to clog less and waste less ink in cleanings.

The best deal here in the US is the very similar P 8000 which is the same unit, minus the orange and green inks. The only downside of these two, which is a significant downside to consider, is that you have to switch the MK and Pk inks when changing types of media. That was really stupid of Epson not to resolve that with the P9000. They waited to the P 10k which is now replaced by the 9570.

You should be happy. If the paper sticks firmly on the core, the printer might break “roll paper guide” on it's own. That's what my customer met, TWICE!

For my experience, I will suggest getting a new head and stay on 9900. Wait 1~2 years until Epson fix most issues on P9500. Or, if you are lucky, the 9900 keeps working for 3~5 years. You can buy next model of P9500 which Epson already fix all problems.

[MfAlab]

Personally I don’t think it makes sense to keep a 9900 running unless you are using third party inks in it.
After a printer series reaches a couple of generations behind they start raising the price of the inks to where it becomes unaffordable to keep using them. Then it becomes difficult to get inks, parts, etc.

If you are afraid to risk the 9570, I would definitely go with the Epson P 9000. It has better black inks, faster, improved, much more permanent inkset, and will be supported for much longer. They are also said to clog less and waste less ink in cleanings.

The best deal here in the US is the very similar P 8000 which is the same unit, minus the orange and green inks. The only downside of these two, which is a significant downside to consider, is that you have to switch the MK and Pk inks when changing types of media. That was really stupid of Epson not to resolve that with the P9000. They waited to the P 10k which is now replaced by the 9570.

Yes, P9000 is an option too. IF the local Epson is raising up ink price or stop service of 9900. Actually, 9900 is almost the same with P9000 and shares repair parts. Only inks are different. The discontinues is all about business. Sadly, we cannot do anything about it.

P10000 is discontinued. P8000 is about too. The "not wide color gamut" printer line will be replaced by new model called P8570D. That's a new CAD printer design from T7770D with double rolls, but different ink set. 6 inks called PRO6, without O/G/V/LC/LM/LG.

[deanwork]

Kang,

Can you easily use third party inks in these Epsons in China?

From the press release by Canon about their new printer about to be released, it seems to be designed for the
Graphic arts and fashion industry, not high-end photography. If so that’s a major disappointment.

John

quote author=MfAlab link=topic=133622.msg1225314#msg1225314 date=1633070559]
Yes, P9000 is an option too. IF the local Epson is raising up ink price or stop service of 9900. Actually, 9900 is almost the same with P9000 and shares repair parts. Only inks are different. The discontinues is all about business. Sadly, we cannot do anything about it.

P10000 is discontinued. P8000 is about too. The "not wide color gamut" printer line will be replaced by new model called P8570D. That's a new CAD printer design from T7770D with double rolls, but different ink set. 6 inks called PRO6, without O/G/V/LC/LM/LG.
[/quote]

[MfAlab]

Kang,

Can you easily use third party inks in these Epsons in China?

From the press release by Canon about their new printer about to be released, it seems to be designed for the
Graphic arts and fashion industry, not high-end photography. If so that’s a major disappointment.

John

I'm Taiwanese, not Chinese. And I have no experience on China Epson printers. But I know many printing shops in China use Canon printers and 3rd party inks. China refillable ink carts for Epson can not be use in Taiwan models, I guess it's the same situation for US models. Epson uses different model names and cartridge chips for the same printer to prevent cross-country selling. I'm wondering if anybody update a china or Europe firmware, is that possible to use corresponding carts.

US →   P9570
EU →   P9500
Asia →   P9530
China →   P9580
Japan →   P9550

[dgberg]

This is old news for the regulars but the 700ml refillables with single use chips work really well in the Epson P6000,7000,8000 and P9000 series.
My 9900 finally kicked the bucket after 11 years. 2 1/2 years ago I bought the P8000 and a set of 700ml refillables from Ink Owl.
Turned that new P8000 into the best 8 color dye sub printer available. We print quite a few metal prints but just last summer only finally replaced the first set of chips. They are $25@.
You can put oem ink, third party pigment or like we did dye sublimation ink. A little profile work and done.

[deanwork]

I see. Epson has to accommodate the laws of various countries and regions in regard to the ability of using non-Epson consumables.

As far as Canon goes, there have been third party inks in third party carts available for a long time in the US.
But I don’t know of any that are refillable like the Epson clone carts. There may be some but haven’t heard of them.

I'm Taiwanese, not Chinese. And I have no experience on China Epson printers. But I know many printing shops in China use Canon printers and 3rd party inks. China refillable ink carts for Epson can not be use in Taiwan models, I guess it's the same situation for US models. Epson uses different model names and cartridge chips for the same printer to prevent cross-country selling. I'm wondering if anybody update a china or Europe firmware, is that possible to use corresponding carts.

US →   P9570
EU →   P9500
Asia →   P9530
China →   P9580
Japan →   P9550

[MfAlab]

This is old news for the regulars but the 700ml refillables with single use chips work really well in the Epson P6000,7000,8000 and P9000 series.
My 9900 finally kicked the bucket after 11 years. 2 1/2 years ago I bought the P8000 and a set of 700ml refillables from Ink Owl.
Turned that new P8000 into the best 8 color dye sub printer available. We print quite a few metal prints but just last summer only finally replaced the first set of chips. They are $25@.
You can put oem ink, third party pigment or like we did dye sublimation ink. A little profile work and done.

Yes, I knew there is a single use chip solution. But it's not like a reusable reset chips in old days, easy and almost one time work. Before SC-P era, we can easily buy a set of refillable cart and resetter, then use any inks we want. cheap color inks or K7 pure gray inks

[deanwork]

There is a chip supply shortage now for these kind of products and that is going to last probably at least a year more if not longer. I also saw that the chip reprogrammer device  for the older chips is hard to come by or very expensive if you find one. Mine has worn out.

Yes, I knew there is a single use chip solution. But it's not like a reusable reset chips in old days, easy and almost one time work. Before SC-P era, we can easily buy a set of refillable cart and resetter, then use any inks we want. cheap color inks or K7 pure gray inks

[bellevuefineart]

Hey Marco-
I’m almost at a year with the 9570 and it has worked pretty well for me. I’ve mentioned before that I use 44” Hahnemuhle FB rolls which is obviously thick paper. Feeding the paper all the way in and then pulling back an inch or so has pretty much eliminated issues. I always print with the extra margin on the leading edge and this seems to do fine with no head strikes. One thing that irritates me is not knowing what is addressed in firmware updates. The biggest issue I have is what happens if roll paper detaches from the tube when printing. This happens frequently with this Hahnemuhle paper. The tape they use to secure the roll is pathetic.  When this happens, the 9570 will feed around 10 feet of paper out.  Supposedly this is a bug that Epson has been aware of for many months.  They have yet to address the problem because it just happened again today. If Hahnemuhle would use better tape this would be a non issue- even with the bug still existing.

This is a HUGE issue for me as well. Paper coming off the core, and the Epson P9570 is a huge pain in the rear. It's chronic. I use a lot of Moab Entrada, and it ALWAYS comes off the core, and every single time we have to tape it back to the core, roll the paper back onto the core, and go through the whole routine of reloading it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktEI745yjc8&t=81s

[JRSmit]

This is a HUGE issue for me as well. Paper coming off the core, and the Epson P9570 is a huge pain in the rear. It's chronic. I use a lot of Moab Entrada, and it ALWAYS comes off the core, and every single time we have to tape it back to the core, roll the paper back onto the core, and go through the whole routine of reloading it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktEI745yjc8&t=81s

What rear tension setting do you use? ( that is the tension applied to the roll). For the SCP9000's i would set that to High ( for Hahnemuhle Photo Rag f.i.) or Extra High (For Hahnemuhle Museum Etching f.i.). Keeps the roll more tightly rolled.

[bellevuefineart]

What rear tension setting do you use? ( that is the tension applied to the roll). For the SCP9000's i would set that to High ( for Hahnemuhle Photo Rag f.i.) or Extra High (For Hahnemuhle Museum Etching f.i.). Keeps the roll more tightly rolled.

I use the least tension possible. If you set the tension to high on the P9570 you'll have a lot of issues. This printer literally rips paper off the core. I can't count the number of times I have taped paper back to the core, only to have the P9570 rip it off the core again. It's a nightmare with this machine, and I really hope Epson fixes this in firmware. Frankly I'd like to sue them over this machine.

At any rate, ranting aside, I set tension to the least amount possible.

[samogitian]

I have an Epson 7570 and I (kind of) regret buying it. It's a great printer but 24" is such a small difference from the 17" my p900 can make. I can't really engage the wall in a significant way. I've got the resolution to do it (Fuji GFX100S, for one) and I'd love to be able to print big. I use Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique II pretty much exclusively.

I am strongly tempted to put the 7570 on the market (I'm near NYC so it should be an easy enough sell even though no question, I'll lose some serious cash… anybody want it?). I will only be using this for my own art photography so the 7570 hasn't had that much use. I am now at the point where I need to start replacing the starter ink cartridges, so I'm really thinking about what I should be doing. At the same time, I've heard such negative things about the 9570 and $1000+ for a year service plan, *ouch*. I'd rather not. Over at the groups.io Epson forum, another user suggested I get the p9000. I have barely used matte black so far, so I don't see that as a big deal for me, but are there any comparisons of the inks and the imaging between the two? Could anybody advise? I'm a little wary of buying a six year old printer since the state of drivers (on the Mac at least) is such that they tend to get discontinued quickly (and inks as well). But I also don't want to buy a mental grenade. Any thoughts?

[Ignotus_Mago]

I wonder if the initial negative impressions of the P9570 have changed since this long thread began.

I find myself in the same position as MarcoFg, who posted just a few months ago, wondering whether to replace the head of his 9900 or purchase the P9570. He never did say which he chose.

I am at the moment inclined to replace the head in my 9900, which has lasted seven years, no too bad. There are features of the 9570 that inspire technolust -- wider gamut, no switching of PK and MK -- and others that make me wary, particularly the paper handling. I could easily wait two or three years for the next generation, where one might hope the the 9570's problems will be resolved.

I make extensive use of Moab Entrada roll paper and also feed some fairly heavy sheets (Epson Somerset Velvet 505 gsm). I sometimes use a deroller to remove the curl from roll paper and feed it as a cut sheet. It sounds as though heavy paper won't be an issue, but paper with some curl left could be.

At any rate, I would welcome any impressions and opinions people have on the P9570 and whether it has become a more steady printer than it started out.

best,

Ignotus Mago


 

[deanwork]

Epson hasn’t really fixed anything.  These guys on the Epson Large format i0 group have been fighting this for years and there is no end in sight. Scott has two of them. I wanted one so bad but I’ve totally given up and just glad I didn’t go for it. The 24” models are quite usable but the 9570s are a disaster.

https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat/message/122573?p=,,,20,0,0,0

I wonder if the initial negative impressions of the P9570 have changed since this long thread began.

I find myself in the same position as MarcoFg, who posted just a few months ago, wondering whether to replace the head of his 9900 or purchase the P9570. He never did say which he chose.

I am at the moment inclined to replace the head in my 9900, which has lasted seven years, no too bad. There are features of the 9570 that inspire technolust -- wider gamut, no switching of PK and MK -- and others that make me wary, particularly the paper handling. I could easily wait two or three years for the next generation, where one might hope the the 9570's problems will be resolved.

I make extensive use of Moab Entrada roll paper and also feed some fairly heavy sheets (Epson Somerset Velvet 505 gsm). I sometimes use a deroller to remove the curl from roll paper and feed it as a cut sheet. It sounds as though heavy paper won't be an issue, but paper with some curl left could be.

At any rate, I would welcome any impressions and opinions people have on the P9570 and whether it has become a more steady printer than it started out.

best,

Ignotus Mago

[Rand47]

Epson hasn’t really fixed anything.  These guys on the Epson Large format i0 group have been fighting this for years and there is no end in sight. Scott has two of them. I wanted one so bad but I’ve totally given up and just glad I didn’t go for it. The 24” models are quite usable but the 9570s are a disaster.

https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat/message/122573?p=,,,20,0,0,0

Pretty much my take on these printers as well.  My 24” version is “mostly” working fine - but I have a bunch of time wasting, paper wasting parameters that I employ to keep it that way.  Based on my involvement on the ELF iO group, I’d not touch the 44” version with a 10’ pole.  It’s quite the shame, really, these machines had the potential to be truly great.

Rand

[Ignotus_Mago]

A new head into the 9900 is on order. Thanks for the replies. Will let you know how things go.