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Author Topic: SureColor P9570  (Read 46628 times)

Garnick

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #240 on: December 31, 2020, 11:14:54 am »

Interesting. I think I’ve printed on canvas satin with 3 earlier generations of Epson printers without issue, so I wasn’t tuned in that it might not work anymore. I will definitely try MK first thing this morning. At Epson’s suggestion I’ve tried the Luster 260 profile to print on the canvas, but still got streaks. I’ve also introduced a 3 second dry time to the printing and that also showed no improvement.

I also think it’s time to find a replacement for Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin. I would certainly appreciate some recommendations from the group.

Thanks,

Bob

Well Bob, if you are indeed using the satin surface you should also be using PK, not MK.  However, I'm not sure that you should be using the Luster profile.  I use only Matte surface canvas and I use the Canvas Matte profile for the P7000, printing from Photoshop.  I assume the P9570 also has these the same profiles or at least similar.  If so there should also be a Canvas Satin profile.  If you haven't tried that profile I would suggest that you should do so.

Gary
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 11:17:58 am by Garnick »
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #241 on: December 31, 2020, 11:23:17 am »

Yea, forget that canvas. Order a small roll of Breathing Color Lyve to test for best  results . Ive used their canvas since it first came out on all the brands of printers and never had a single problem or bad batch. It uses their Timeless varnish which is the best I’ve used. They also provide good profiles for all the printers that you can test with.

If you are one of those people who don’t use a uv varnish, Breathing Color makes a canvas for that also, though I’ve never seen it.

John



Well Bob, if you are indeed using the satin surface you should also be using PK, not MK.  However, I'm not sure that you should be using the Luster profile.  I use only Matte surface canvas and I use the Canvas Matte profile for the P7000, printing from Photoshop.  I assume the P9570 also has these the same profiles or at least similar.  If so there should also be a Canvas Satin profile.  If you haven't tried that profile I would suggest that you should do so.

Gary
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Garnick

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #242 on: December 31, 2020, 11:46:05 am »

Yea, forget that canvas. Order a small roll of Breathing Color Lyve to test for best  results . Ive used their canvas since it first came out on all the brands of printers and never had a single problem or bad batch. It uses their Timeless varnish which is the best I’ve used. They also provide good profiles for all the printers that you can test with.

If you are one of those people who don’t use a uv varnish, Breathing Color makes a canvas for that also, though I’ve never seen it.

John

Yes, I agree!  I've been using the Breathing Color Chromata White Matt canvas since approximately 2005 with great results.  I did have one roll on which the ink peeled off while stretching.  Took a few shots of the issue and sent them along to Breathing Color.  The next day I had a call from the distributor, Amplis Photo Toronto, to let me know there was a new roll of that canvas waiting to replace the bad one.  I left the bad roll and picked up the new roll and never an issue since.  In my opinion that was excellent support, and I let them know immediately.

Gary     
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 12:01:32 pm by Garnick »
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BobDavis

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #243 on: December 31, 2020, 11:56:47 am »

Yes, I agree!  I've been using the Breathing Color Chromata White Matt canvas since approximately 2005 with great results.  I did have one roll on which the ink peeled off while stretching.  Took a few shots of the issue and sent them along to Breathing Color.  The next day I had a call from the distributor, VISTEK, Toronto to let me know there was a new roll of that canvas waiting to replace the bad one.  I left the bad roll and picked up the new roll and never an issue since.  In my opinion that was excellent support, and I let them know immediately.

Gary   

Excellent!!!  Thanks for the suggestion.  Breathing Color it is!
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Panagiotis

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #244 on: December 31, 2020, 01:53:11 pm »

Following this and the other thread about the new Epsons I wonder if some of the problems with the black ink performance has to do with the fact that there are two separate black channels PK/MK. In the older models was one or another. But now maybe some media types (in driver paper types) make use of both blacks at the same time like the Canons and testing must be done to select the optimal media type for some papers/canvases. Or maybe a media type called A was using in the older models PK only black and PK/MK now because the formula of the black is different now and a combination of both must be used to achieve good output.
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BobDavis

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #245 on: December 31, 2020, 02:26:56 pm »

Following this and the other thread about the new Epsons I wonder if some of the problems with the black ink performance has to do with the fact that there are two separate black channels PK/MK. In the older models was one or another. But now maybe some media types (in driver paper types) make use of both blacks at the same time like the Canons and testing must be done to select the optimal media type for some papers/canvases. Or maybe a media type called A was using in the older models PK only black and PK/MK now because the formula of the black is different now and a combination of both must be used to achieve good output.

I would be very surprised to be the first to discover you can't print black on Exhibition Canvas Satin.  Surely there are many people using that canvas with the 9570.  In a few days I'll be trying the Breathing Color Canvas Lyve with matte ink and satin varnish.  I'm praying that will work so I can continue to print with confidence with the Epson. 
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unesco

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #246 on: December 31, 2020, 02:56:38 pm »

you have horizontal stripes but also some vertical
I am wondering if:
1) the printer is stable and mechanically doesn't move (e.g. the stand is well attached etc)
2) the canvas has any defects, sometimes happen - have you tried on another canvas role, also another type of canvas?
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #247 on: December 31, 2020, 03:24:58 pm »

I’m thinking printer alignment could possibly be off, that’s usually the first culprit.

Since there are a lot of settings that are new with these heads alignment may be a more tricky process .

Speed of printing is also of course something that can have a big effect and the alignment should be done at that speed. With the HPs we have something called paper advance adjustment that should be run. Don’t know if that is possible on the 9570.





you have horizontal stripes but also some vertical
I am wondering if:
1) the printer is stable and mechanically doesn't move (e.g. the stand is well attached etc)
2) the canvas has any defects, sometimes happen - have you tried on another canvas role, also another type of canvas?
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robmaci

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #248 on: July 29, 2021, 03:04:41 pm »

Dear readers - I'm new to the forum so hope I'm doing this correctly.

I have a warning about buying a P9570.  I will try to make this short:

I have spent the last 9 months attempting to get my new P9570 to work properly, unsuccessfully and now Epson is buying it back from me.  I have had 6 visits from 4 technicians, one telling me that he replaced "basically everything" and the unit still won't work properly.  Two dead heads.  Constant head strikes on the papers.

My warning is that when they finally (after waiting for 2 months) sent me the empty packaging I'm to use to get the unit properly packaged to ship back to them, I saw on the side of the packaging a label.  "Refurbished Unit'

This worries me tremendously.  I am worried Epson is not listening to me or using any common sense at all.  If how they have behaved during the Buyback process is any indication, I wonder if they even know what's going on with this unit.

This unit is HIGHLY defective.  I have run a printing business in New York for 8 years.  I know what I'm talking about. This printer is unusable.

In case they're going to "fix" this printer and then sell it to you as a refurbished unit, MAKE SURE you don't buy it.  The serial number is X6FA000713.  You're best to make sure that if you're buying a refurbished unit, it is not this one.  Trust me on this one.  It's been a nightmare.
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #249 on: July 29, 2021, 06:56:36 pm »


Hi Rob,

Would you please post this on the Epson Google forum. That is where you will get a clear response from current users of this machine.

https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat

Everyone should post their experiences with these new printers in all the forums, including this one.
It’s the only user experience we have.

 I have discussed this unit with people who love them that use them in a production situation daily.  I’m in the market for a new one so I’ve had discussions with several people using multiple brands who have made me prints from my files. By far the best prints I’ve had done were on the 9570. The neutral black and white is spectacular and I’m very picky about it. The gloss differential on bw  fiber gloss media and color as well is better than any pigment printer using oem inks I’ve  ever used and I’ve had all the major brands. The dither is clearly better than the Canons and the HPZ. There is no way I can stomach Canons bw and their sad software for driving it.

In my opinion Canon and Hp have clearly gone backwards .

I want a new 44 that does everything well, but I’m trying to hold off until this fall. I’m not convinced about any of them right now. There are all kinds of supply chain issues with Asia and a lot of sloppiness the last year.   There were lots of issues with the new Epsons during the pandemic with people having them rebuilt in their studios . I also heard the same kind reports initially from resellers about the P20,000s that eventually got straightened out.
I thought they had resolved all the head strike horrors by now. Even one bad head strike can kill a head. An Epson tech told me that. And the heads on these are over three grand plus labor. So they have to stay in warranty.

I actually have seen no more bad comments about the 9570s on the Epson form all summer. But that doesn’t prove anything. You never know what is really going on out there. Usually people don’t post when things are going great.

Are they giving you a new printer or did you refuse one and ask for your money back? It could be you got a real lemon that came out early on, that they should have completely replaced.

There seems to be a lot of happy people running the 7570s which I guess is somewhat irrelevant.

I wish I had an idea about what is going on. I hope they aren’t the 9900s all over again with really inconsistent quality control in manufacture spanning everything from excellent units to hundreds of never ending nightmares for years and years.


John


Dear readers - I'm new to the forum so hope I'm doing this correctly.

I have a warning about buying a P9570.  I will try to make this short:

I have spent the last 9 months attempting to get my new P9570 to work properly, unsuccessfully and now Epson is buying it back from me.  I have had 6 visits from 4 technicians, one telling me that he replaced "basically everything" and the unit still won't work properly.  Two dead heads.  Constant head strikes on the papers.

My warning is that when they finally (after waiting for 2 months) sent me the empty packaging I'm to use to get the unit properly packaged to ship back to them, I saw on the side of the packaging a label.  "Refurbished Unit'

This worries me tremendously.  I am worried Epson is not listening to me or using any common sense at all.  If how they have behaved during the Buyback process is any indication, I wonder if they even know what's going on with this unit.

This unit is HIGHLY defective.  I have run a printing business in New York for 8 years.  I know what I'm talking about. This printer is unusable.

In case they're going to "fix" this printer and then sell it to you as a refurbished unit, MAKE SURE you don't buy it.  The serial number is X6FA000713.  You're best to make sure that if you're buying a refurbished unit, it is not this one.  Trust me on this one.  It's been a nightmare.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #250 on: July 29, 2021, 07:51:41 pm »

Quote
There seems to be a lot of happy people running the 7570s which I guess is somewhat irrelevant.

I don’t think it is irrelevant at all.  The two printers are identical except for carriage width.

Jeremy Roussak (who has been summarily sacked from this site) had a 7570 that also proved to be “unfixable.”   He sent it back to his vendor.  A few months later (after a vacation, as I recall) he bought another copy of the 7570 and has only has been quite happy with it.   It seems to me that Jan Smit also had a 9570 that was a complete dud, and it went back as well.

My conclusion is that there are some examples that make it out of production that are just “bad” for some reason that Epson itself doesn’t understand (yet, hopefully).

I have two colleagues in separate shops who have 9570s that are chugging away with no problems at all, and are their favored printer.  My 7570 is also (now) the most trouble free and excellent printer I’ve owned.

Rand
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #251 on: July 29, 2021, 08:21:37 pm »

I guess it all depends on what factory in Asia they were made, and at what time and under what supervision.

Clearly they rushed this series out before they were ready for prime time. Those first buyers got burned and had to do a lot of the beta testing on their own dime. These were not amateur printmakers who were giving up.

Then there were few if any techs available to focus on the problems during the worst of the pandemic, no small issue, and not of Epson's creation.

At any rate the image quality is really great all around and I hope it is straightened out before I attempt to buy one this fall.

John






quote author=Rand47 link=topic=133622.msg1221418#msg1221418 date=1627602701]
I don’t think it is irrelevant at all.  The two printers are identical except for carriage width.

Jeremy Roussak (who has been summarily sacked from this site) had a 7570 that also proved to be “unfixable.”   He sent it back to his vendor.  A few months later (after a vacation, as I recall) he bought another copy of the 7570 and has only has been quite happy with it.   It seems to me that Jan Smit also had a 9570 that was a complete dud, and it went back as well.

My conclusion is that there are some examples that make it out of production that are just “bad” for some reason that Epson itself doesn’t understand (yet, hopefully).

I have two colleagues in separate shops who have 9570s that are chugging away with no problems at all, and are their favored printer.  My 7570 is also (now) the most trouble free and excellent printer I’ve owned.

Rand
[/quote]
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 10:30:31 am by deanwork »
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #252 on: July 29, 2021, 08:56:47 pm »

I guess it all depends on what factory in China they were made, and at what time and under what supervision.

Clearly they rushed this series out before they were ready for prime time. Those first buyers got burned and had to do a lot of the beta testing on their own dime. These were not amateur printmakers who were giving up.

Then there were few if any techs available to focus on the problems during the worst of the pandemic, no small issue, and not of Epson's creation.

At any rate the image quality is really great all around and I hope it is straightened out before I attempt to buy one this fall.

John


John,   I know for a fact that you’re right about Epson techs not even having access to the printer to trouble shoot various parameters.  They were “off site and masked up” for quite a while.  To their credit, in spite of this, they worked with me to trouble shoot.  So, yes, I ended up being a beta-tester, but I can also say that they more than fairly compensated me for lost extendibles, warranty, etc.

I think as long as you choose a vendor very carefully, and have it understood before the purchase that if the printer is “one of the duds” they they will come and get it - you’ll be fine.  I suggest hanging on to all the packing and pallet for a few weeks or so.  In a very real sense, Epson has put themselves on the line w/ this new series printers.  They are feature rich, easy to use, don’t clog, have GREAT sheet feed, etc. - so I’m pretty confident that they know they have a lot at stake.

Rand
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George Marinos

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #253 on: July 30, 2021, 04:47:20 am »

Hi all!
I have read so much about the non compatibility of 9570 with glossy-Baryta papers like Fineart Baryta, Photorag Baryta etc. I would much appreciate if anyone could give any feedback on how these papers behave with the new printer finally!
Thanks very much
George
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #254 on: July 30, 2021, 10:11:36 am »

From a quick Google search it looks like the 9570 model is on back order just about everywhere. To me that’s a good sign, maybe, that they are serious about re-engineering the glitches, like roll paper transport that were causing these head strikes and ink limit issues people were complaining about. It’s a lot easier to fix things in the factory than on location in someone’s studio when they are in the middle of a series of jobs.

It seems a lot of printer production, including Epson, as well as tech production in general with Japanese and US companies, is being moved from China to Vietnam and Indonesia.

It seems like the head strike and other paper transport  issues were with stiffer and thicker media.People we’re having a devil of a time finding settings that worked correctly, especially on thicker stiffer media. Hahnemuehle was not happy about it.

I do believe that firmware updates couldn’t completely rectify this and mechanical upgrade was necessary.

 I had color and black and white prints made from my files on the 9570, on my primary paper these days, Canson Platine and they were excellent. But Platine is cotton and not stiff and not too thick.They matched the Z3200 monochrome prints I do which use the separate gloss enhancer channel very effectively, and had better sharpness and dither , and were better with bronzing and gloss differential issues than the previous Epsons, new Canons or the previous Canons or the prints I had done on the HP Z 9+.

John





quote author=Idololab link=topic=133622.msg1221425#msg1221425 date=1627634840]
Hi all!
I have read so much about the non compatibility of 9570 with glossy-Baryta papers like Fineart Baryta, Photorag Baryta etc. I would much appreciate if anyone could give any feedback on how these papers behave with the new printer finally!
Thanks very much
George
[/quote]
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 10:59:06 am by deanwork »
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #255 on: July 30, 2021, 11:18:59 am »

Hi all!
I have read so much about the non compatibility of 9570 with glossy-Baryta papers like Fineart Baryta, Photorag Baryta etc. I would much appreciate if anyone could give any feedback on how these papers behave with the new printer finally!
Thanks very much
George

Jan Smit had troubles with overinking on some papers.   And, some 3rd party paper mfgs. were recommending a 10-15% decrease in color density w/ their ICC profiles.

Early on, while I never had anything approaching “pooling” of ink, I did notice that the inkload on some papers seemed heavy enough to produce some swell in the paper - especially in heavily inked large areas of dark tones.

I’ve not seen this at all since about 3 firmware updates ago.  And, I’ve always printed successfully on the papers you mention, along w/ Gold Fibre Gloss, Canson Platine Fibre Rag, Simply Elegant Gold Fibre, etc.  Those are my principal papers and if there were issues, this printer would be a sold “no-go” for my purposes.

As to “stiff” papers (always a challenge on rolls), I print on Hahnemuhele Torchon often.  It has to be “the stiffest paper I’ve ever seen!”  No issues whatsoever.   

I’m not trying to defend Epson.  This series of printers had some serious teething issues.  And it was not well understood by the techs in the beginning.  In many early conversations with the “regular” tech people, they had no idea at all about this printer and its features and operating paradigm.  E.g. they had no idea there even “was” an Epson Media Installer program!  But all of that is now “history,” as far as I can tell.

Rand

« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 11:23:18 am by Rand47 »
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #256 on: July 30, 2021, 06:08:14 pm »

These were far more than teething issues. These issues stopped serious experienced printmakers from getting their work done for months at a time. Not all of them were so lucky to have their expensive materials and time compensated for. It wasn’t just a few people who post on these tech sites.

The strange thing is there were very few reports about this series at all on the forums, positive or negative. I think I saw the same three people posting about them, and still do. I heard from a very large reseller who sells hundreds of them of all brands every year that LOTS of experienced printmakers all over the US were unable to use them and wanting to return them. He cautioned me to hold off and actually I haven’t heard back yet. Now I see the 9570s are back ordered everywhere. This makes me think there is some serious retrofitting going on. If they are taking their time to do that I’m even more inclined to buy one. This wouldn’t be the first time printers were shipped before thoroughly being beta tested and vetted. I’ve seen it happen with all three of the primary companies. And this is certainly not the first time for Epson in recent years. It’s not a perfect world, supply chains have been screwed up everywhere, but if it happens to you in the middle of serious projects, it can freak you out and make you really mad.


quote author=Rand47 link=topic=133622.msg1221445#msg1221445 date=1627658339]
Jan Smit had troubles with overinking on some papers.   And, some 3rd party paper mfgs. were recommending a 10-15% decrease in color density w/ their ICC profiles.

Early on, while I never had anything approaching “pooling” of ink, I did notice that the inkload on some papers seemed heavy enough to produce some swell in the paper - especially in heavily inked large areas of dark tones.

I’ve not seen this at all since about 3 firmware updates ago.  And, I’ve always printed successfully on the papers you mention, along w/ Gold Fibre Gloss, Canson Platine Fibre Rag, Simply Elegant Gold Fibre, etc.  Those are my principal papers and if there were issues, this printer would be a sold “no-go” for my purposes.

As to “stiff” papers (always a challenge on rolls), I print on Hahnemuhele Torchon often.  It has to be “the stiffest paper I’ve ever seen!”  No issues whatsoever.   

I’m not trying to defend Epson.  This series of printers had some serious teething issues.  And it was not well understood by the techs in the beginning.  In many early conversations with the “regular” tech people, they had no idea at all about this printer and its features and operating paradigm.  E.g. they had no idea there even “was” an Epson Media Installer program!  But all of that is now “history,” as far as I can tell.

Rand
[/quote]
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #257 on: July 30, 2021, 06:47:21 pm »

Quote
This series of printers had some serious teething issues.

No argument from me on the seriousness of the issues.  I was, at one time, on the verge of having my vendor come and pick it up.

Rand
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MfAlab

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #258 on: August 12, 2021, 10:43:53 pm »

Hi all!
I have read so much about the non compatibility of 9570 with glossy-Baryta papers like Fineart Baryta, Photorag Baryta etc. I would much appreciate if anyone could give any feedback on how these papers behave with the new printer finally!
Thanks very much
George

Some experience for compatibility of P95X0 with glossy-Baryta papers. Like deanwork said, hard and thick papers get more problem. Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta works good. But P9570 with Canson Infinity Baryta Prestige causes huge problem, feeding unstable and suction too weak. I also found slippy papers get more problems too, heavy weight RC papers will lead similar issue.

P95X0 will over release the paper in the roll paper cover while printing. And it's all under the the dust proof cover, you won't aware that and can do nothing at all until printing finish. Changing reference paper and back tension setting did not help. Even the feeding is right on track, the printer still release too much paper length from the core. I'm working with Epson locally and Japan headquarter trying to figure out causes of this issue almost a year. Case is not close yet...

The actual problem is paper will loose from the core without tension and pressure from outer rolls of papers. If the tape between paper and core stronger enough, paper will be forced to fold back. Even more, when paper be sticked firmly on the core and didn’t have enough space to be fold back in the roll paper cover, the printer keeps trying releasing more paper will finally break “roll paper guide” which is a small white plastic shaft driving roll paper adapters.

I guess it's a hardware issue, a paper feeding sensor or something. And different machine (the same model of course) shows varying severity. Assembly precision might play a role in it too. P95X0 / P75X0 is new generation printer, many hard wares are new, settings are new. Epson needs more time to debug and fine tune it. But we are in global epidemic, everything is getting very slow.
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George Marinos

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #259 on: August 14, 2021, 04:47:28 am »

Some experience for compatibility of P95X0 with glossy-Baryta papers. Like deanwork said, hard and thick papers get more problem. Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta works good. But P9570 with Canson Infinity Baryta Prestige causes huge problem, feeding unstable and suction too weak. I also found slippy papers get more problems too, heavy weight RC papers will lead similar issue.

P95X0 will over release the paper in the roll paper cover while printing. And it's all under the the dust proof cover, you won't aware that and can do nothing at all until printing finish. Changing reference paper and back tension setting did not help. Even the feeding is right on track, the printer still release too much paper length from the core. I'm working with Epson locally and Japan headquarter trying to figure out causes of this issue almost a year. Case is not close yet...

The actual problem is paper will loose from the core without tension and pressure from outer rolls of papers. If the tape between paper and core stronger enough, paper will be forced to fold back. Even more, when paper be sticked firmly on the core and didn’t have enough space to be fold back in the roll paper cover, the printer keeps trying releasing more paper will finally break “roll paper guide” which is a small white plastic shaft driving roll paper adapters.

I guess it's a hardware issue, a paper feeding sensor or something. And different machine (the same model of course) shows varying severity. Assembly precision might play a role in it too. P95X0 / P75X0 is new generation printer, many hard wares are new, settings are new. Epson needs more time to debug and fine tune it. But we are in global epidemic, everything is getting very slow.
Thank you MfAlab for your detailed observations.
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