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Author Topic: SureColor P9570  (Read 39706 times)

Idololab

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SureColor P9570
« on: January 18, 2020, 04:04:29 am »

Hi all
Has anybody out there used the SureColor P9570 printer to share impressions with us?
Thanks
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George Marinos
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mcbroomf

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2020, 07:10:45 am »

I don't believe it's available yet (I have my eye on the 24" version once reviews come out)
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Dale Villeponteaux

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2020, 10:12:48 am »

IT Supplies has them for sale.

Regards,
Dale
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Wayne Fox

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2020, 05:47:25 pm »

I have one on order, certainly the printhead and speed are intriguing, but some other features I’m curious about and will review once it arrives.
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Idololab

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 03:56:08 am »

"Inductive Media Roller System Reduces Paper Feed Error
• Assures accurate and consistent feed regardless of the weight of the media roll
• Consistent back-tension
Automatic, Simplified Media Loading Process
• Automatic loading process- easier for operator to load
• Reduced media skew"

This is what I am concerned more about. The actual "transport" system (on P9000 for example) isn't so good
and some delicate fine art papers are prone to scratches and many other problems.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 04:02:53 am by Idololab »
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George Marinos
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2020, 04:12:21 am »

Yesterday my frist handson with the scp7500, not a great success thusfar.

Limited to a luster pe-paper, due to time constraint and learning-curve. I have been using scp9000 for the last 4 years intensively. (and the scp20000). The controls on the printer and in the printer driver are quite different. And you need on your computer the Epson Media Installer as well.

Whether it is me as user or limitations in the software is still to be determined. The physical paper related controls like platen gap, paper thickness etc are no longer in the driver, online on the printer . Personally i find that better. But when you want a custom paper you must use Epson Media Installer. You cannot create a custom paper on the printer.  But in EMI one can only create a new paper title. Only edit then is to assign a icc profile to it. All other settings are to be done on the printer. And in EMI you cannot even see those settings.

I define paper sizes in the driver, like different lengths from 24” roll, but if you do a refresh in EMI all your paper sizes are wiped. This is a very serious showstopper for me.

Next testfase will also focus on fine art matte papers, and like Idolo I have my concerns. On the scp9000 i already modified the right black plastic of the paper- hold system, to prevent it from touching paper and leaving a line mark on the soft fine art papers during printing. (Wasted quite a bit of paper before I found the cause of these line marks)

Regarding icc profile i did not notice a significant increase in the profile volume, To be worked on.
The print speed is high, the resolution using Bart van de Wolf’s media test image show a resolution one can expect from a 300/600 ppi printer.
FInding optimal paper settings to maximize resolution is something to work on in next test day. Bart’s test image is a good tool in this, but the paper waste is significant as the minimum length from roll is now 279.4mm (on scp9000 it is 127mm)

Head alignment auto or manual, I get the impression that manual does a better job (as on the scp20000 by the way)

To be continued, a lot to test before continue with the purchase, for now that is on hold.
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Jan R. Smit

Idololab

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 06:48:02 am »

Thank you very much Jan for this first detailled report. Let's hope that the driver will be updated. We wait impatiently for your next report.

"On the scp9000 i already modified the right black plastic of the paper- hold system, to prevent it from touching paper and leaving a line mark on the soft fine art papers during printing."

I am very interested in this. Is it possible for you to describe what you have done? Printing on Hahnemühle's Baryta FB paper is a nightmare!
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 07:09:45 pm »

Yesterday my frist handson with the scp7500, not a great success thusfar.

Limited to a luster pe-paper, due to time constraint and learning-curve. I have been using scp9000 for the last 4 years intensively. (and the scp20000). The controls on the printer and in the printer driver are quite different. And you need on your computer the Epson Media Installer as well.

Whether it is me as user or limitations in the software is still to be determined. The physical paper related controls like platen gap, paper thickness etc are no longer in the driver, online on the printer . Personally i find that better. But when you want a custom paper you must use Epson Media Installer. You cannot create a custom paper on the printer.  But in EMI one can only create a new paper title. Only edit then is to assign a icc profile to it. All other settings are to be done on the printer. And in EMI you cannot even see those settings.

I define paper sizes in the driver, like different lengths from 24” roll, but if you do a refresh in EMI all your paper sizes are wiped. This is a very serious showstopper for me.

Next testfase will also focus on fine art matte papers, and like Idolo I have my concerns. On the scp9000 i already modified the right black plastic of the paper- hold system, to prevent it from touching paper and leaving a line mark on the soft fine art papers during printing. (Wasted quite a bit of paper before I found the cause of these line marks)

Regarding icc profile i did not notice a significant increase in the profile volume, To be worked on.
The print speed is high, the resolution using Bart van de Wolf’s media test image show a resolution one can expect from a 300/600 ppi printer.
FInding optimal paper settings to maximize resolution is something to work on in next test day. Bart’s test image is a good tool in this, but the paper waste is significant as the minimum length from roll is now 279.4mm (on scp9000 it is 127mm)

Head alignment auto or manual, I get the impression that manual does a better job (as on the scp20000 by the way)

To be continued, a lot to test before continue with the purchase, for now that is on hold.

I’m interested in the 7570 24” model and downloaded the User Manual.  I was pleasantly surprised to see almost identical driver layout / functionality to my SC P5000.   What you’re describing on the 44” model seems like a pretty radical departure.  Seems odd that there would be a significant difference between the 24 and 44” models.

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2020, 04:58:41 am »

I have no experience with the scp5000, but 4 years dayly experience with scp7000 and scp9000. And experienced with scp20000.
We found the custom paper create option on the scp7500 (scp7570 in the USA).
The current release of Epson Media Installer is something to stay away from. It wipes your own created paper sizes in the printer drives on your computer.
We are struggling to get an Epson fine art matte paper to profiel correctly. No idea about the cause yet. The fine art gloss went fine. The paper profile is about equal in volume to the scp7000/9000, with a slight increase in the blue / purple region.


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Jan R. Smit

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2020, 06:45:10 am »

Got the Fine Art paper to profile correctly. Turns out you really need to let the profile card dry overnight before measuring ;-)

The feed correction is interesting, as it will print two lines 500 mm apart, and you then enter the measured distance. Consumes more paper, but is quite accurate.

The head alignement pattern is also interesting, even complete it shows black lines, but watching it being  printed one sees color lines printed first then these are overprinted with black lines. It stille needs some fine-tuning to get the best alignement, but it is already quite close.


Paper thickness is entered with 0.01mm steps, as opposed to the 0.1mm steps in previous generation printers.

With Thick Fine Art Matte papers it does touch the plastic parts of the roll holding system. So some grinding is is needed to reduce the sticking out of an edge and a corner.

Once used to the menu structure of the printer it works fine.

I think i will go ahead with the purchase.

When Epson Media Installer bug is fixed it may be of interest also. For now it is not usable at all.

This week two more tests :
- This overprinting feature. No idea how it will look, but will see ;-)
- Head alignment is it stores per paper type or is is "global". This is important as Fine Art papers vary in thickness.

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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2020, 02:51:46 pm »

I have no experience with the scp5000, but 4 years dayly experience with scp7000 and scp9000. And experienced with scp20000.
We found the custom paper create option on the scp7500 (scp7570 in the USA).
The current release of Epson Media Installer is something to stay away from. It wipes your own created paper sizes in the printer drives on your computer.
We are struggling to get an Epson fine art matte paper to profiel correctly. No idea about the cause yet. The fine art gloss went fine. The paper profile is about equal in volume to the scp7000/9000, with a slight increase in the blue / purple region.

Hi JRS,

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, if you DON'T install the Epson Media Installer, the printer driver works pretty much like your SC P 7000, in terms of options, menus, functionality, etc.?  That was my impression after reading the manual for the SC P 7570.

And, I'd love to have your feedback on how the sheet feed mechanism works on this new printer.  It is a separate path as I understand it, and straight through the printer.  Does the printer "hold" the printed sheet until you release it?  As opposed to just dropping it in the bin?

Appreciate your overall feedback / experience with this new model.  I'm about to pull the trigger and having real world impressions is very valuable.

Rand
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Rand Scott Adams

Idololab

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2020, 09:33:12 am »

Any news concerning print quality Jan, particularly in the blacks? And how good is the new transport system?
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George Marinos
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2020, 10:43:40 am »

There is a significant thread on the Epson Large Format list about these new Epsons having serious issues cutting the thick matte rag media. They apparently are recommending not using the paper cutter and  cutting by hand! That would certainly be a deal breaker for me. My printers cut this media all day long and I certainly wouldn't buy a printer where you had to remove the roll for every print! If true this is just strange it seems to me. What are they thinking.

https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat/topic/paper_cutter_blades_in_the/71036723?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,71036723

John

I agree that this would be a problem and a pain in the butt... but why would you have to remove the roll?  Just advance the paper, make a manual cut, and reset.  My current Epson printer works this way with the “manual cut” option.  I suspect that’s what is recommended here.

Rand
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Jim Kasson

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2020, 11:28:29 am »

I agree that this would be a problem and a pain in the butt... but why would you have to remove the roll?  Just advance the paper, make a manual cut, and reset.  My current Epson printer works this way with the “manual cut” option.  I suspect that’s what is recommended here.

Rand

My 9800 has an accessory manual cutter installed. Is one available (or part of) the x570 Epson 24 and 44 inch printers? I'm assuming my 9800 cutter won't work.

Jim

BrianWJH

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2020, 05:23:40 pm »

There is a significant thread on the Epson Large Format list about these new Epsons having serious issues cutting the thick matte rag media. They apparently are recommending not using the paper cutter and  cutting by hand!

https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat/topic/paper_cutter_blades_in_the/71036723?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,71036723

John

I've checked back as far as the Stylus Pro 7880-9880 and the user manuals state similiar warnings for each new model so it's not new information, below are some manual extracts as follows:


Epson Stylus Pro 7880-9880:

"The following media (and other similar materials) may not work with the built-in cutter:
•Fine art paper (including Epson Textured and UltraSmooth® Fine Art Paper)
•PremierArtTM Water Resistant Canvas for Epson
•Vinyl
•Matte board
•Backlight film
•Heavyweight polyester banner media
•DuPontTM Semigloss Proofing Paper"

Epson Stylus Pro 7890-9890, 7900-9900:

"The built-in cutter might not be able to cut some types of non-epson media"

SC-P10000-20000:

"Non-genuine Epson media types, such as those
shown below, may not be cut cleanly by the built-in
cutter. Furthermore, cutting the following media
types may damage or reduce the lifetime of the
built-in cutter.

• Fine art paper
• Canvas
• Vinyl
• Matte poster board
• Adhesive paper
• Banner media"

So like the above warnings this may be Epson being overly cautious as I'm sure many Epson wide format owners of previous models have certainly cut Fine art paper and canvases without any issue, naturally there will be dulling of the cutter blade with use, it's just normal wear and tear on a consumer replaceable part.

Brian.
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dgberg

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2020, 06:04:23 pm »

That’s not being overly cautious that’s being confused. At least half of the consumers who buy these printers use these kinds of media constantly and they shouldn’t be expected to stand there with their scissors or matte knife when “fine art” rag paper editions are being done, or even for a single freaking print.

 I’ve printed hundreds and hundreds of 44 inch 310 gsm rolls on many Epson large formats over the years, and the other printer brands, without even having to change the blade for many years most of the time.

It seems like from those recent posts though, the new Sure Color line is not getting the job done.

And were not talking “ third party media” now. The Canson line now is being rebranded by Epson as “legacy” . The 310 gsm cotton media is not some specialty media.  For half the population, it’s our primary, if not only media being used, semi-gloss or matte.

I also would very much be concerned about head damage with the paper only being partially cut and flopping around in there. Not cool.

The answer may just be the Epson retrofitting with a better blade or cutting mechanism.

Now canvas is something else. It sure would be “professional” if we didn’t have to trim it by hand, but I’ve learned to live with that on all my printers.

John,
I am on my third 44" Epson and two of them only print canvas. The 9900 onboard cutter cuts the canvas like a hot knife through butter. I replaced the cutter on my 10 year old 9900 about a year ago as it was getting dull. I think I cut about 4000 canvas prints on that one machine alone before I replaced the cutter.
I cannot imagine anyone not using that cutter on canvas, it is that good.

BrianWJH

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2020, 06:12:31 pm »

John, the cutter blade replacement for the new P7500/9500 series is the same part number as the previous Stylus Pro 7900/9900 and 7890/9890 models so unless they have changed the cutter drive mechanism in some way then you would expect the new machines to perform the same as the previous models.

Brian.
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langier

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2020, 07:21:48 pm »

Similar experience as Dan Berg when in comes to cutting canvas and the 9900. The upgraded cutter was why I got mine the in first place in 2011. The project I bought the printer for was more than 600 canvas prints, main on using 44 inch media. When I got it, it was at least 2-3 years old when I bought it and have replaced the cutter once (a second-hand blade) along with a single service several years ago.

It's still running strong and still cutting canvas just fine.
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2020, 02:44:24 am »

Any news concerning print quality Jan, particularly in the blacks? And how good is the new transport system?
I have my SCP9500 installed and am busy between jobs to find optimums per paper. Regarding the blacks, on gloss media it appears blacker, I.e. measure Dmax of 2.6 instead of 2.4. On matte papers however it is slightly less that scp9000.
Some papers on the scp9000 (and before that on the 9900) I use water color radiant white as media type , on the scp9500 thiis mediatype has a different behaviour. So back to square one to find the right media type and settings per paper.

Loading cut sheet works fine, provided it is not cut from a roll. Then the curl will prevent you from loading it.
When loading a paper you also need to select a paper type, and you can also then adjust settings. This actually is ok with me, but had to get used to it.

Regarding cutting of papers, the scp9500 appears to cut with more force than the scp9000. No issues yet encountered on cutting.

One curious thing. When printing a measurement chart on Epson Premium Gloss Paper 250gsm, with the Epson provided profile, the measurement of the dark blues failed. I use xrite i1 pro2. this failed consistently.
I did not experience this phenomenon on matte papers. Will do some testing and profiling on fine art gloss coming week.

To be continued.



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dgberg

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2020, 08:16:29 am »

Well if that is the case why is Epson telling customers in their literature not to cut canvas and “ fine art media”  with these machines ?  It’s all very funny. They should want to advertise that it is designed for that purpose.

As suggested by these various posts, some people have no problem, while others with new units have terrible results which can cause jams and head strikes. Maybe there is a factory adjustment that is or isn’t done correctly. But clearly Epson is aware of issues or they wouldn’t be telling people to cut this stuff by hand. All I know is I’ve never had an Epson that couldn’t cut thick papers normally.

I think it is entirely due to the dust it creates, not the cutting of substrates. Canvas and most fine art papers can make a fair amount of dust inside the printer. To keep those potential issues at bay they say don't cut them.
Except it cuts them just fine. (I am referring to the older models) As long as you keep after the internal bay cleanliness (Vacuum or wipe down the fine dust particles) you should be fine.
I would like to hear from someone cutting canvas on a regular basis with the new model. That would be a killer for me if I could not use the internal cutter on canvas.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 01:52:28 pm by dgberg »
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