SureColor P9570

[Jim Kasson]

UPDATE:

Two more weeks have gone by.  Still not a word from Epson Tech Support.  I suspect the COVID 19 lock-down here in CA is having an effect.  The Tech Support center is in Long Beach, CA. Would be nice to at least have an email letting me know it’s going to be a while, or whatever is the current status.

Rand

Is it too late to return the printer?

[Rand47]

Is it too late to return the printer?

Yes, I let my 30 day B&H period has go by in the midst of this.  I’m feeling ambivalent about that fact. I’m certain that either my unit (if defective) will be repaired/replaced, or more likely, Epson will eventually get these universal firmware/driver issues sorted out.  As long as I’m made whole re warranty and hopefully wasted materials doing their beta testing for them, I think I’ll be very happy with the printer.  Here’s the strangeness (Twilight Zone music in the background), I love everything about how this printer works, except the goofed up prints.  LOL  Well, that’s not fully true - Epson’s move to require paper settings to be registered in the printer and with a lot of those settings now not even available in the driver, strikes me as a dumb move.  Keeping at least a user option in this regard would be much better for printers with established workflows using LR, PS, etc.  But I can adapt to that, even though I don’t like it.

Rand

[George Marinos]

I am pretty sure that after software or firmware update, the printer will work finally fine! The real problem is your wasted time, paper and inks.Epson has to compensate you for all this.
We will keep watching.
Good luck Rand and Jan.

[JRSmit]

The paper related settings are now in one place. In previous generations it was in both printer and driver, but when a 'custom paper type was selected on the printer, its paper related settings like thickness and gap were used regardless of driver settings.
So now these settings are in one place.
The Bad thing however is that in the driver these are not shown, even if you select "use printer settings" , you are "driving" blind.
Add the fact that the driver is not "sticky" , makers it "double blind".
Using Epson Edge Dashboard (EED) adds nothing really to the table.
All in all very poor in terms of user experience, as if the designer had no clue of the workflow of  persons printing.

EED is more a supervisors tool for a collection of printer devices. Not a print operator tool, i.e. someone that prepares and executes a print task. His or her tools are a application like Photoshop and the driver for given printer device.

[JRSmit]

Thanks George, this is also what i still hope for.

However i am already almost 2 months underway with a device that is hardly usable, other than a being a "doorstop".
It replaces 2 still fine working printers, so i have a painfull production handicap, and curiously enough, with the covid19 drama unfolding, i still receive print orders.

I am pretty sure that after software or firmware update, the printer will work finally fine! The real problem is your wasted time, paper and inks.Epson has to compensate you for all this.
We will keep watching.
Good luck Rand and Jan.

[Rand47]

I am pretty sure that after software or firmware update, the printer will work finally fine! The real problem is your wasted time, paper and inks.Epson has to compensate you for all this.
We will keep watching.
Good luck Rand and Jan.

George,

Thanks for the positive vibes! 

Rand

[Rand47]

I HAVE GOOD NEWS TO REPORT:

Epson Tech Support in Long Beach CA, contacted me today.  They apologized for the silence, and it was as I suspected, things are tough re staffing, remote working, etc. due to the COVID situation.  They assured me, however, that they are very serious about resolving my printer issues.

There was a new firmware release for the SC P7570 posted to Epson's support web page only a few days ago (3/26/20) and that DOES NOT SHOW UP on the Epson Software Updater utility.  I downloaded and installed the firmware.  What is interesting to note is that in the release notes for this firmware that my tech rep had, none of my issues is mentioned as being addressed in the update.  Apparently only some user interface issues.

BUT, the updated firmware (03.34.LK11K3) seems to have resolved the following issues:

• Prints on cut sheets laid out in Lightroom and Photoshop print utilities now print "as laid out."  No extra leading edge margin, no truncated images.  This is HUGE.
• The head strikes I'd seen on a very dark image, when reprinted on 24" Epson Legacy Baryta roll paper with the printer's paper settings at default  and even the platen gap on "Auto" produced beautiful dark prints with ZERO head strikes.  I test printed using both normal settings, and Black Enhance Overcoat (BEO) enabled.  Both were fine.  And anecdotally I can say that the BEO feature makes a significant difference it depth and "presence" in an image like this:

• The printer driver settings will now "stick enough" to allow me to make a LR print template that "holds" information such as:
• Paper type / size (in driver)
  Orientation (in driver)
  Print Quality settings (in driver)
  User defined paper size (in driver)
  Color management setting (in driver)
  ABW settings (in driver)
  ICC profile chosen in LR
  Resolution setting chosen in LR
  Rendering intent chosen in LR
  Print sharpening chosen in LR

The upshot of this is that I can now make print templates as I have done in my printing workflow w/ my other Epson printers.
It is still important to note that if you don't either "save" these settings in the driver, or save them as a template to be invoked in LR, the driver will default back to very low print quality settings.  I think this should be fixed to be sticky.  One can still make dumb mistakes, but at least they will be our "own" mistakes.  LOL

Issues Unresolved at this time:

The printer driver's "Print Preview" function still is messed up and shows only a corner of the image most of the time.
And to be candid, I've only made about 8 test prints today on various Epson papers, both cut sheet and roll, and while I'm VERY ENCOURAGED by the changes I see with the updated firmware, I'm "cautiously optimistic" that come tomorrow things remain "fixed."  OK, so I'm a little paranoid at this point!  LOL
The tech representative said he would follow up re the driver situation.

Bottom line.  For now the printer is usable, pending further confirmation through actual use.

Suspicions:

I think there is still some cross-talk, conflict with between firmware and driver.

OK, this is all GREAT news.  The printer is now usable, pending further tweaks / info / action from Epson.  And as I've said above, probably a couple of times, operationally this is a really beautiful printer.  I LOVE the cut sheet feed mechanism and how it loads cut sheets.

I'm very happy to be able to report this good news.

Rand

[JRSmit]

I agree with Rand’s findings wrt printing on legacy baryta with new firmware. Also measurements on grey ramp tests show a much smoother b-curve in the dark-grey range.

But on fine art gloss papers of 3 different manufacturers the bleeding and mottling is still unacceptable.

I expect feedback from Epson NL early next week, as Epson level 2 support have now received the specific prints they asked for . (Shipment took a couple of days longer than normal, caused by the Covid 19 drama.)

It is still my belief that once the print quality issues and the software issues are resolved, it will be a very fine printer.

The sooner the better, as I have my scp9500 now for almost 2 months, replacing a scp7000 and a scp9000, so , with only one scp9000 left a serious limitation in production capacity

[George Marinos]

These are very good news and many thanks for sharing!
Two questions :
1. If you reduce color density by about 5-10% doesn't help?
2. I am very curious if the paper transport system has changed.
Is the paper tension more constant so the paper doesn't touch the inner part of the printer?
The little 'rollers transport' are the same or they have changed in shape, size or material?

[Jim Kasson]

I HAVE GOOD NEWS TO REPORT:

Thanks for the update, Rand. Very encouraging. However, I'm reconsidering upgrading since exhibition possibilities for me will probably be limited for some time.

Jim

[Rand47]

Thanks for the update, Rand. Very encouraging. However, I'm reconsidering upgrading since exhibition possibilities for me will probably be limited for some time.

Jim

Jim,

Yes, it’s a little like being “all dressed up with nowhere to go.”  😉  At least for a while, and the definition of “a while” seems to be growing with each passing day.

Rand

[JRSmit]

Hi George,

With the previous firmware on a fine art gloss I went to -20 and still had some.
With the latest firmware I did not test this, given the severity of the bleeding.
And I  already spent too much on identifying and reproducing problems.

It is now first up to Epson to respond

You know Nor Rand or I got a signal from Epson that there was new firmware,
nor that it solves (some) of the reported problems. Also the date of that firmware is too early.


The paper transport system is changed, however I did not study it in enough detail.
The plastic parts where the roll is held, I already showed in a post with photos
that it looks like it still touches the paper, like on the scp9000 family.

There is also a ‘pizzawheel’ axle just above the bottom where the paper exits the printer. It’s use can be controlled in the menu. I have not given it more thought than to turn it off.

These are very good news and many thanks for sharing!
Two questions :
1. If you reduce color density by about 5-10% doesn't help?
2. I am very curious if the paper transport system has changed.
Is the paper tension more constant so the paper doesn't touch the inner part of the printer?
The little 'rollers transport' are the same or they have changed in shape, size or material?

[JRSmit]

Yes, it is a weird time. On Friday I delivered the framed prints to a customer for an exhibition which is now rescheduled to January 2021 😟
Very abnormal situation.

Thanks for the update, Rand. Very encouraging. However, I'm reconsidering upgrading since exhibition possibilities for me will probably be limited for some time.

Jim

[Rand47]

UPDATE

More test prints.  More success.  Not a single error of any kind.  I’m gaining confidence in this printer.

I did find a discrepancy between the User Guide on Page 100 where it shows the “usual” menu of adjustable parameters for paper settings that in previous printers are adjustable from the driver.  BUT, in the driver itself (6.71 Windows 10 64 bit) the adjustments are limited to only color density.  I’ve documented with screen shots and sent to Epson Tech Support rep.  His response is that he’s forwarded the info, but his sense is that the User Guide is incorrect, since these adjustment parameters are intended to be made only from the printer’s LCD menu in these new printers.

I also have also created my first custom paper setting, using the Epson Media Installer utility, and registered it successfully to the printer.  In this case, I created a custom paper for Canson Platine Fibre Rag.  It is interesting to see that once I’ve given it that name, it shows up exactly as that name in both the printer’s menu, and in the driver as a media type.  You “build” the custom type by copying an extant Epson paper’s attributes, renaming, then registering to the printer.  In this example I used Epson Legacy Platine as the extant paper to copy.  Then once registered to the printer you can go into the printer’s menu select the custom paper’s name (i.e. Canson Platine Fibre Rag) and adjust all the other usual parameters, e.g. thickness, platen gap.  Taking my micrometer to the Canson paper I noted that it’s caliper is slightly thicker than the Epson version of Platine.  I made that adjustment, and s small tweak to the platen gap (first test had little corner inking marks).  For now, I also “assigned” the Epson Legacy Platine ICC profile while in the Epson Media Installer utility. (Canson does not have profiles for these printers available yet.). I suspect that registering the ICC profile as part of the custom paper settings only has impact if one is using “Printer Manages Color.”  But would like to know this for certain.  I’m using color management turned off and selecting the appropriate (same)  ICC profile from within Lightroom’s print module, which worked fine.   It does make me wonder if one ICC profile was “assigned” in the custom paper settings, and a different ICC profile selected in LR’s print module w/ “no color managment” set in the driver…. could / would that create a double profiling conflict?  Yet to be determined by testing.  I’m going to guess “not” but needs to be confirmed.

I was then able to create a print template in Lightroom using this new custom paper registered in the printer and it worked well.  This is a different scheme from other Epson printers I’ve owned, but once figured out is easy enough to do.  It has the advantage of eliminating remembering 3rd party paper “media types” for various papers, since once a custom paper is built from that extant Epson paper as “media type” and naming that paper with its actual name, you’re done.  So, I’ve changed my mind about this whole scheme being a solution in search of a problem..  It’s a little more work, but makes for an easier, more clear operation of the printer with 3rd party papers “over the long haul.”  There’s room for 30 custom papers to be registered to the printer, which for my use is plenty.

Also, I had Digital Deck Covers make a nice lightweight cover for this printer for me.  I assisted them by taking photos of my printer from all sides, and putting in the various dimensions.  The cover fits very nicely and is easy to put on and take off.  I could recommend Digital Deck Covers for anyone considering a cover for their printer.

That’s it for now.  At this point, I think this printer will make it possible to completely replace my SC P5000 printer as “redundant.”  I’ll keep my little SC P600 for really small prints and as my quick go-to utility photo printer.  If anyone in the Southern California area is interested in a P5000 at a very attractive price, let me know.

Rand

[JRSmit]

Yes some improvement. Also in USA the new driver version is6.72 now.
A custom paper registered in Epson Media Installer now shows in the driver as well, but not the custom papers defined in de printer.

Still no clue what else is registered in EMI, like paper thickness etc.

However still a serious bug with Epson Media Installer, it wipes alle your custom paper sizes. For me this is a show stopper, as Lightroom shows the paper size as registered in the driver.
I use a lot of different paper sizes.

Also "Use Printer Settings" is nog saved when saving a setting in the driver.

[Rand47]

Yes some improvement. Also in USA the new driver version is6.72 now.
A custom paper registered in Epson Media Installer now shows in the driver as well, but not the custom papers defined in de printer.

Still no clue what else is registered in EMI, like paper thickness etc.

However still a serious bug with Epson Media Installer, it wipes alle your custom paper sizes. For me this is a show stopper, as Lightroom shows the paper size as registered in the driver.
I use a lot of different paper sizes.

Also "Use Printer Settings" is nog saved when saving a setting in the driver.

Jan,

In the driver I am NOT using “use printer settings.”  And selecting media type and paper size in the driver.  In the printer, when I load the paper, and choose the paper type... I “see” all the normal / same paper sizes that show in the driver.  I select the “same size” in the printer as I’ve selected in the driver.  And I’m not having any further problems with size and placement of images on those paper sizes.  And, under advanced settings, all the other parameters are available, thickness, platen gap, etc.  and they are "sticky" in the printer.

Thanks for the heads up re a v. 6.72 driver version.  I’ll go take a look a little later this morning to see if it is available for my printer.

Rand

[JRSmit]

Jan,

In the driver I am NOT using “use printer settings.”  And selecting media type and paper size in the driver.  In the printer, when I load the paper, and choose the paper type... I “see” all the normal / same paper sizes that show in the driver.  I select the “same size” in the printer as I’ve selected in the driver.  And I’m not having any further problems with size and placement of images on those paper sizes.  And, under advanced settings, all the other parameters are available, thickness, platen gap, etc.  and they are "sticky" in the printer.

Thanks for the heads up re a v. 6.72 driver version.  I’ll go take a look a little later this morning to see if it is available for my printer.

Rand

Rand how do you set the length of paper from a roll ? Printing from Lightroom requires to define a size for the paper.

In my driver the settings are not sticky, hmmm .

[Rand47]

Rand how do you set the length of paper from a roll ? Printing from Lightroom requires to define a size for the paper.

In my driver the settings are not sticky, hmmm .

Jan,

I'm Windows.  In the driver I select "roll paper."  Then set the size using "user defined."  I create the size starting with 24" (in my case), and the then put in the length that I need estimating what my margins will need to be at either "top/bottom" or "left/right" depending on orientation for the size image on the paper.  Then I save that user defined size in the driver for easy use later.  I can then create a LR print template from those driver settings, and so far with the new firmware it is "sticky."    I think my circumstances might be a little different than yours because I don't lay out multiple images "side by side" on the width of the roll paper.  The 7570 being a 24" carriage, the roll paper is used almost exclusively for single larger prints than can be made using cut sheet.  E.g. 20x30, 24x36, wider panoramas, etc.  Works fine.  If any given image size is smaller than one of my user defined "lengths" I can go in "on the fly" and shorten up the user defined setting (or lengthen as the case may require) until my margins are what I want, w/o wasting paper.  If you'd like me to create a short screen-capture video on this, I'd be glad to do that and send you a download link from my server?  That way you could see that this method "works" in my setup.  If it doesn't in yours, then my video might be helpful to you in showing Epson as you troubleshoot.

Rand

[JRSmit]

Hi Rand, a screen capture video would be nice.

[Rand47]

Hi Rand, a screen capture video would be nice.

Jan,

Will do.  Will PM you with link, once completed.

Rand