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Author Topic: SureColor P9570  (Read 47317 times)

Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #100 on: April 10, 2020, 08:34:44 am »

UPDATE

This update is to report that the printer is now 99% GREAT!  I could heartily recommend it to anyone looking for a state of the art, fine art printer.  The remaining bug(s) in the driver are being aggressively hunted down by Epson Advanced Technical Support.  And the remaining issue(s) with the driver do not impact the quality of the prints in any way.  Just minor irritation in using the Print Preview function in the driver.

And, I think it is important for me to also report how incredibly pleased I am with Epson Advanced Technical Support.  They continue to be very responsive, and very aware, concerned, and actively pursuing resolution of remaining issues.  I won’t name the tech rep who is assisting me, but I am so very pleased with his professionalism, responsiveness, and even the personal touch in dealing / working “with me” on resolution of every single issue I’ve brought to his attention.  Since I have tried to be direct, honest, yet not histrionic in describing the issues associated with this brand new printer, I think it only fair to be equally direct and honest in my praise of Epson in stepping up to the plate to resolve these issues.  And I think I can say that any initial slowness in response was due entirely to the COVID 19 situation here in CA.  Epson (out of Long Beach CA) was caught in the transition from the team all “being in the office” to having to work remotely, establish new ways of communication and “teaming” during this time.  More than understandable.  And I’ll state for the record that no one at Epson has “encouraged me” to post anything like this at all, in any way.  This is just what I think is “due” in terms of being straightforward in my reporting of this situation.

Rand
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 08:37:45 am by Rand47 »
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #101 on: April 10, 2020, 11:11:47 am »

Only true for Epson branded papers.

Certainly NOT for fine art gloss papers from respected manufacturers.
One cause is the new ink formulation which makes the printer incompatible with these fine art gloss papers.
99% of my print orders are with non-Epson papers, so I will replace my scp9500 with a scp9000, which is significantly better.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #102 on: April 10, 2020, 11:15:03 am »

Only true for Epson branded papers.

Certainly NOT for fine art gloss papers from respected manufacturers.
One cause is the new ink formulation which makes the printer incompatible with these fine art gloss papers.
99% of my print orders are with non-Epson papers, so I will replace my scp9500 with a scp9000, which is significantly better.

Hi Jan,

Could you list the specific brand / paper  “fine art gloss papers” that you are certain the new ink set is incompatible with?  And, share with us how you came to the conclusion that the ink is incompatible? It would be very helpful.

I’m sorry to hear you’re still having serious issues and have come to this conclusion.

Rand
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #103 on: April 10, 2020, 02:27:32 pm »

That sounds really strange? You can’t make a custom media setting?  How s Epson Legacy Platine? That is mostly what I use. It’s the same as the Canson Platine. Your saying Hahnemuehle media has a coating that is so unique that they can’t function in the 9570. Bizarre. If that’s true it would kill Epson because way too many people wouldn’t put up with it. There are too many editions out on these various media.



Hi Jan,

Could you list the specific brand / paper  “fine art gloss papers” that you are certain the new ink set is incompatible with?  And, share with us how you came to the conclusion that the ink is incompatible? It would be very helpful.

I’m sorry to hear you’re still having serious issues and have come to this conclusion.

Rand
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #104 on: April 10, 2020, 03:13:33 pm »

That sounds really strange? You can’t make a custom media setting?  How s Epson Legacy Platine? That is mostly what I use. It’s the same as the Canson Platine. Your saying Hahnemuehle media has a coating that is so unique that they can’t function in the 9570. Bizarre. If that’s true it would kill Epson because way too many people wouldn’t put up with it. There are too many editions out on these various media.

I can't speak for Jan, but I'm using Epson Legacy Platine very successfully in my SC P7570.  It's beautiful, as always (I have used it extensively in my P5000).  I also successfully "spun off" a custom media type from the Epson Media Installer for Canson Platine Fibre Rag from the Epson version (I then tweaked a couple of settings for it in the printer).  No issues.  Also prints beautifully, even using the OEM ICC profile for Epson Legacy Platine - pending my getting custom profiles made.

I think Jan is referencing other manufacturers papers.

Rand
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Mick Sang

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #105 on: April 13, 2020, 10:24:54 pm »

Quote
Only true for Epson branded papers.

The majority of papers that we use include Canson Platine, Baryta, many Hahnemuhle papers, Legacy Platine (Canson) and a few Epson Papers. We have seen only excellent results on all from our 9570 - comparable to our P5000. I can not imagine the 9000 being better.

Mick
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #106 on: April 14, 2020, 03:17:28 pm »

The majority of papers that we use include Canson Platine, Baryta, many Hahnemuhle papers, Legacy Platine (Canson) and a few Epson Papers. We have seen only excellent results on all from our 9570 - comparable to our P5000. I can not imagine the 9000 being better.

Mick
Mick, which fine art glossy from Hahnemuhle have you used on the 9570? And with what driver and printer settings?
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #107 on: April 14, 2020, 03:30:55 pm »

The majority of papers that we use include Canson Platine, Baryta, many Hahnemuhle papers, Legacy Platine (Canson) and a few Epson Papers. We have seen only excellent results on all from our 9570 - comparable to our P5000. I can not imagine the 9000 being better.

Mick

Mick,

Actually, I'm finding my 7570 a little better than my P5000, now that it is mostly sorted out via firmware updates, etc..  I printed the same printer test file with both (Bill Atkinson composite)  Both prints on Epson Legacy Baryta from the same box. Same color management scheme (i.e. no color adjustment in printer driver), OEM Epson ICC profiles for each printer as appropriate.  "Straight prints," same image size, etc.  So, "as identical" as I could make them. 

Results in 7570 print:
  • Better/smoother tonal transitions
  • Darker "blacks"
  • Better detail in dark areas, surprisingly better in fact (areas that are visibly darker still have more detail in them)
  • Smoother grayscale ramp w/ mid-tone more in "the middle" of the ramp
  • Slightly more neutral grayscale rendering "visually" - I was very surprised by this.  Subtle but there.

From a mere comparison of the ICC profiles in ColorThink Pro, I wasn't expecting to see much, if any visible difference / improvement between the two printers.  As far as color gamut is concerned, there isn't. But overall, I was very surprised.  The differences are subtle, but very much there. I've shown the two prints to two different observers w/ no indication of which was which.  In both cases the first reaction was, "They're the same."  I told them to look at them for a bit and start comparing individual items of IQ like details in the dark areas, the smoothness of the ramp, tonal transition across flowers, etc.  Both observers upon reflection chose the 7570 print and when pressed for why they changed their mind gave me the exact laundry list shared above.  One of the observers is a good photographer for whom I make prints.  The other was my wife who knows next to nothing about digital photography or print making - but IS a watercolor artist. 

Rand
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 03:53:39 pm by Rand47 »
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Mick Sang

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #108 on: April 14, 2020, 11:26:18 pm »

Quote
Mick, which fine art glossy from Hahnemuhle have you used on the 9570?

PR Baryta, PR Bright White, FA Baryta, PR Pearl.

Quote
Actually, I'm finding my 7570 a little better than my P5000

Depends upon what you mean by "better." Gamut is larger in deep blu- purple - violets due to the violet ink. That in itself is an improvement. No more black switching is a blessing. Prints beautifully IMHO.

Mick
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #109 on: April 15, 2020, 08:41:56 am »

Depends upon what you mean by "better."

Yeah, that’s kinda why I described in some detail, above, the areas in actual print output IQ that I found that are better/superior.   ;)   I thought others who are considering this series of printer might find the observation useful.

Rand
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George Marinos

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #110 on: April 15, 2020, 10:33:10 am »

Because it is important to me I pose again 2 questions. Maybe Rand can answer it...
-Is the paper tension more constant so the paper doesn't touch the inner part of the printer when it moves backwards  and forwards ?
-The little 'rollers transport' are the same or they have changed in shape, size or material? (See Attachment from P9000)
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #111 on: April 15, 2020, 10:48:40 am »

Because it is important to me I pose again 2 questions. Maybe Rand can answer it...
-Is the paper tension more constant so the paper doesn't touch the inner part of the printer when it moves backwards  and forwards ?
-The little 'rollers transport' are the same or they have changed in shape, size or material? (See Attachment from P9000)

To the first question re paper tension, I would say “yes” - but that’s an educated guess based on observation.

To the second question, I’m not qualified to answer, not having owned a wider than 17” printer. previously.

Sorry I can’t be more help.  Are there areas of the printer feed mechanism that I could photograph up close for you that might help?

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #112 on: April 15, 2020, 12:12:34 pm »

Because it is important to me I pose again 2 questions. Maybe Rand can answer it...
-Is the paper tension more constant so the paper doesn't touch the inner part of the printer when it moves backwards  and forwards ?
-The little 'rollers transport' are the same or they have changed in shape, size or material? (See Attachment from P9000)
Visibly the rollers are the same.
The paper tension thing, it is different in the part from the roll into the first part of the paper feed mechanism.
The paper feed is in small quite brutal steps and you can see that the unrolling is varying. So the paper can touch the plastic parts at the right end and on the left end of the roll holding part. I have also seen on these plastic parts marks that look like the paper has touched those parts. I have not used the printer yet with rather stiff papers like Innova ifa107 or Hahnemuhle Museum Etching, so no feedback on that. And that will stay so for a while, as I will no longer use the printer. I will post  in a separate thread my findings thusfar, so to make clear why I will not use the printer anymore.

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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #113 on: April 15, 2020, 01:04:24 pm »

Quote
I have also seen on these plastic parts marks that look like the paper has touched those parts.
[/b]

Jan,

Is this on all papers?  I had head-strikes once until the new firmware, but I have not seen these marks on the papers I've tested.  Epson Baryta, and Platine.  Canson Platine, and Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss.  I've also tested Epson Legacy Textured and Legacy Fibre matte papers. 

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #114 on: April 16, 2020, 02:54:09 am »



Jan,

Is this on all papers?  I had head-strikes once until the new firmware, but I have not seen these marks on the papers I've tested.  Epson Baryta, and Platine.  Canson Platine, and Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss.  I've also tested Epson Legacy Textured and Legacy Fibre matte papers. 

Rand
Hi Rand, it is not about head strikes.

It is about the black plastic parts on both of the roll holding elements.

I have no indication it is true for all papers. On my scp9000 it was true for rolls with relatively thick fine art matte papers. It would then show up as a faint linear mark in the length of the paper some 6 cm from the side.
In an earlier post I showed photos of the plastic parts where an edge or a corner is sort of sticking out a little.
These edge or corner touched the surface of the paper, thereby altering a little bit the surface and when printed will show up as a faint line because of the changed surface texture.

I never got to working with such papers on my scp9500 because of the show stopper issues with this printer. Never the less I already noticed what looks like stuff marks on these parts on the scp9500.

Also a word of caution with Legacy Platine: reduce the platen suction, and increase the paper thickness setting to prevent/reduce the marking on the paper caused by paper feed rollers and the ridges of the platen . By increasing the thickness setting a bit, the pressure of the rollers on the paper is reduced.
The platen is not a flat plate, but has little chambers needed for the suction, and the ridges in between will cause markings.
This paper is quite soft and gets a lot softer because of the ink fluid being absorbed by the paper during the printing. On my SCP9000 I used , if memory serves me well, a paper thickness of 0.5 or 0.6 mm and the platen suction of -2 or -3 to minimize these markings. It used to be a very fine fine art gloss paper.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 03:02:20 am by JRSmit »
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George Marinos

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #115 on: April 16, 2020, 05:54:53 am »

Jan and Rand thank you! The scratches I am referring to are random anywhere on the print. They are very thin and they show up "better" into uniform dark tones. My understanding is that this happens when  the paper touches the inner parts of the printer before it comes to the paper feed rollers.The reason for that, I think, is because the tension of the paper is very irregular when it goes backwards - forward's before being ready to print. This applies to 9900 and P9000 printers when printing glossy FineArt papers in rolls.
"It would then show up as a faint linear mark in the length of the paper some 6 cm from the side".
I never had this line
I hope this is clear
Best regards
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 06:13:59 am by Idololab »
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George Marinos
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #116 on: April 16, 2020, 08:48:57 am »

George, Just a check, how often do you clean the inner areas of the printer, including the part where the paper enters the printer casing, as well as the structures around the roll?
I do that at least weekly.
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #117 on: April 16, 2020, 08:49:52 am »

Also have you tried different roll tension settings?
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George Marinos

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #118 on: April 16, 2020, 09:38:09 am »

Also have you tried different roll tension settings?
I think that the movement of the roll is not always in absolute sync with the movement of the transport axis. It is not a matter of "how much tension" but a matter of "even tension".I will try less tension anyway. I clean often the inner part with compressed air. I am sorry but my English is not so good and I have problems to describe complicated technical things.
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George Marinos
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #119 on: April 16, 2020, 12:11:46 pm »

I think that the movement of the roll is not always in absolute sync with the movement of the transport axis. It is not a matter of "how much tension" but a matter of "even tension".I will try less tension anyway. I clean often the inner part with compressed air. I am sorry but my English is not so good and I have problems to describe complicated technical things.
I clean with a special dusting cloth, i am not a fan of using compressed air, as i do not know where the dust will go.
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