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Author Topic: SureColor P9570  (Read 41131 times)

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2020, 08:24:59 am »

My doorstop is even bigger and heavier 😎😆
Anyhow i concur with your view on the printer .

Let see what Epson comes up with. I do hope very soon, as it is seriously hindering my production capacity.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2020, 01:23:21 pm »

UPDATE:

Well, since the roll paper print layout seemed to be working OK, I decided to make a print at 22.5x30” on Epson Legacy Baryta roll paper.  Using the printer’s default settings for Legacy Baryta, I experienced the same over-inking (and in my case head strikes from paper swelling) that JRSmit has been talking about on his 9570.  I even set the platen gap to 2.1 (not good for print quality) and still experienced head strikes.

THIS PRINTER IS NOT READY FOR PRIME-TIME AND EPSON NEEDS TO FIX IT.

To date, I’ve wasted about $250 worth of paper and ink all due to the printer’s faults.

Rand

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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2020, 03:11:03 am »

+1, and i Just got feedback about another scp9500 having the same problem.

A serious issue, thusfar had cost me (and Rand and others )a lot of money in ink, paper, time and frustration. This was not what i expected from Epson. About time to consider legal actions.
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Jan R. Smit

deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2020, 01:00:42 pm »

They rushed it to market. But why? It’s not like Canon is so innovative right now or HP so popular that they should be that worried.

I mean they have the P10k, P 8k, P 9k...and the smaller ones. They are acting they are Apple or something. I get dizzy just trying to keep up with them all. They’ve got to keep all the software up to date on Mac and pc, keep up with all the inks, train the techs. It’s lot for them to maintain globally. Too many printers.


+1, and i Just got feedback about another scp9500 having the same problem.

A serious issue, thusfar had cost me (and Rand and others )a lot of money in ink, paper, time and frustration. This was not what i expected from Epson. About time to consider legal actions.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2020, 10:40:58 pm »

They rushed it to market. But why? It’s not like Canon is so innovative right now or HP so popular that they should be that worried.

I mean they have the P10k, P 8k, P 9k...and the smaller ones. They are acting they are Apple or something. I get dizzy just trying to keep up with them all. They’ve got to keep all the software up to date on Mac and pc, keep up with all the inks, train the techs. It’s lot for them to maintain globally. Too many printers.

I don’t have the feeling it was “rushed.”  I just think they missed something, or something went amiss, in the final configuration of units being prepared for shipping.  It’s frustrating in the extreme, for sure.  But though it makes me nuts, I’m sure it will get sorted out.  As to “too many printers,” I’m not really qualified to speak to that.  But I can say that this printer represents a real step forward for Epson.  The color gamut, the separate MK / PK lines, the very nice way cut sheets load, the “black overcoat” feature - these are all VERY NICE and very valuable, I think.  Epson just needs to jump on the issues with the firmware / driver (or whatever it is) ASAP so that we early adopters can legitimately sing its praises.

Rand
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dgberg

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2020, 12:12:26 pm »

For someone with only one wide format printer the P9570 may be the ticket. The items you list make perfect sense.
I will be in the market very soon for another 44" printer as my 10 year old P9900 is getting long in the tooth.
We have dual 44" printers so never have a need to switch blacks. 99% of our canvas/paper is on rolls and we have an HP z3200 that lays down a clear coat.
We could buy 2 P8000's for less than a new P9570. They are certainly not the same class printer but the price point is just too far off to ignore.
Don't get me wrong, I would love one just to see the differences. Than again 50% of my wide format printing is for a pet photographer with another 40% going to hospital wall art from photos from the local photography club. The lower end Epson's are really good enough.

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2020, 12:38:23 pm »

 The scp9000 would be a better fit, as it had about the same extended colorspace as the 9900. And also the 9000 is reduced in price, at least over here.
The 9000 makers more and better use of green and Orange compared to the 9900. I used a 9900 and since 4years the 9000 (2 of Them) .
The SCP9500 is ment to replace a scp7000 and a scp9000 , and if issues resolved i believe it is a good decision.


 :-\
For someone with only one wide format printer the P9570 may be the ticket. The items you list make perfect sense.
I will be in the market very soon for another 44" printer as my 10 year old P9900 is getting long in the tooth.
We have dual 44" printers so never have a need to switch blacks. 99% of our canvas/paper is on rolls and we have an HP z3200 that lays down a clear coat.
We could buy 2 P8000's for less than a new P9570. They are certainly not the same class printer but the price point is just too far off to ignore.
Don't get me wrong, I would love one just to see the differences. Than again 50% of my wide format printing is for a pet photographer with another 40% going to hospital wall art from photos from the local photography club. The lower end Epson's are really good enough.
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dgberg

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2020, 03:13:25 pm »

Jan,
I had a 9890 printing beside my 9900 for 5 years. The 9890 does not have the orange and green and the 9900 does.
I have compared hundreds of images between those two printers and it is almost impossible to tell what was printed with which printer. You just cannot tell.
This is all on canvas so others may have different results on papers. Have pretty much made up my mind when the P9900 kicks the bucket we will get one or two P8000's

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2020, 07:05:29 am »

Then the scp8000 is indeed the better choice.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2020, 06:47:20 pm »

UPDATE

I recontacted Epson Tech Support this morning.  After a week, no further info from Epson.  The clock is running on my ability to return it to B&H.  Looks like I may be forced to do that if I don’t hear something encouraging soon.

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2020, 12:13:07 pm »

I had contact with Epson, now via my supplier a request to do some specials prints, and to send these to Epson Europe. So no solution in the short term i am afraid. The corona virus impact does not help either (a positive eufemistic twist)
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Jan R. Smit

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570, A TOTAL FAILURE !
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2020, 08:43:41 am »

SureColor P9570, A TOTAL FAILURE !

Has EPSON lost their marbles??????

I got this feedback from Epson, regarding my reported issues:

"If the provided ICC profiles don't give the expected printouts, the customer should adapt the ICC profiles to his papers. The higher the resolution, the more ink is used in the printout. For matte papers it could be too much ink in some cases. Matte paper can absorb half of the ink than glossy paper can absorb. Therefore you should use half of the resolution for the printouts. For SureColor SC-Px000-x0000 he could use the Color Calibration Utility. As you know the media and profile handling was changed for the new SC-P7500/9500. For the new printers you need Epson Edge Dashboard and Epson Media Installer. In the Media Installer you manage the media profiles and the color profiles."

Legal action!
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Jan R. Smit

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570, A TOTAL FAILURE !
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2020, 08:51:49 am »

Looking back over the period of 1.5 month now with the new line of Epson printers, the SC-P7500/9500 (in the USA 7570/9570),
i have come to the conclusion that this new line of Epson large format printers is a FAIL.

Much to my regret, this printer series is positioned by Epson as a step up, the contrary is true, it is the worst printer ever i have experienced.

I am puzzled as how this is possible, given alo a field-test period of more than 6 months by probably several persons,  of one at least i know that he is not just somebody.
Also Epson has a long history in inkjetprinting, the SC-P9000 (6000,7000,8000) are really fine machines, very high print quality, reliable, robust.
I have used them from the moment they entered the market in The Netherlands, more than 4 years ago, and still have one SCP9000 running very well indeed.
I replaced a SCP7000 and a SCP9000, still printing perfect after 4 years of daily print-studio production use, by one SCP9500.
This was my worst decision in my printing life.

And the response thusfar from Epson Service is in the post earlier, but repeated here:
"If the provided ICC profiles don't give the expected printouts, the customer should adapt the ICC profiles to his papers. The higher the resolution, the more ink is used in the printout. For matte papers it could be too much ink in some cases. Matte paper can absorb half of the ink than glossy paper can absorb. Therefore you should use half of the resolution for the printouts. For SureColor SC-Px000-x0000 he could use the Color Calibration Utility. As you know the media and profile handling was changed for the new SC-P7500/9500. For the new printers you need Epson Edge Dashboard and Epson Media Installer. In the Media Installer you manage the media profiles and the color profiles."

I just do not get it.



Summary of issues:

- Over-inking, especially on Fine Art Gloss papers, less of a problem on Fine Art Matte papers, but still. Observed on severla printers already.
- Driver software poorly designed or programmed, see previous post on this, also observed by Rand.
- Paper-transport flaky , see attached PDF
- Scaling issues (see Rand's posts)
- Preview issues (see Rands posts and mine on this item)
- Head-alignment not maximal , close but not to the level of SC-P9000, somehow a bit better on Fine Art Matte compared to Fine Art Gloss.
- Epson Media Installer seriously flawed, see one my early posts on this topic.

In short, not usable, thus FAIL.


I spent several hundred Euro's already on ink and paper, not to mention my time, without getting somewhere really, other than reporting to Epson the issues.
Even a test production run on Fine Art Matte, ended in finding, thus reporting,  another serious issue, this time in the paper transport.

How was it possible that printers of this poor quality were put on the market by Epson?
How does Epson do its product-quality control and assurance?

And then you get a reply from Epson ( see above), time for legal action now.



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Jan R. Smit

Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2020, 05:35:14 pm »

Jan,

So, If I’m understanding you correctly, Epson intends to do nothing to resolve the issues you’re having?  Only provided advice on the inadequacy of their own ICC profiles and driver?

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2020, 03:19:28 am »

I have sent to the person in charge of Epson Netherlands a formal notice. A notice of default is I believe the English term for it.

I read in reply of Epson that it states that the printer is fine, I am doing the wrong things.

However the statement of Epson by itself is pertinently wrong, and shows that the person who wrote it has no clue of what printing entails and no experience whatsoever with printing or profiling.
Nor does it address any of the issues reported.

But it is the statement of Epson, therefore I wrote and sent a formal notice.

This morning I woke up with a feeling of unbelief and of sadness. I feel sorry for Epson, with their huge history of very fine and highest quality inkjet printers , that this is all they can say when a thusfar loyal Epson customer reports issues with the latest generation of Epson printers. It makes me sad.


A bit of background of me as Fine Art Printing Specialist:
I have started printing more than 10 years ago, My first Epson , Stylus pro 4900  I purchased end of 2012, since then a stylus pro 9900, 2 surecolor sc-p9000, a sc-p7000. I still have 1 sc-p9000. I printed on sc-p8000 for an exhibition in a museum, I have printed on stylus pro 11880 and on sc-p20000 when the print size demanded for it. Also on HP printers and in one occasion, for the launch of a Hahnemuhle paper in 2014 on a Canon 6450. Not only printed but also finding optimum settings for these printers for given paper and profiling these and controlling the quality. Have been doing that for a lot of different papers (media).




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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #75 on: March 20, 2020, 05:26:59 am »

Just one more issue i stumbled across when running a print-job as test , on a fine art matte paper. Sort of a band in the first 1-3inches of a print. To avoid this you have to choose a setting in paper edge quality which will add another 3inches or so of margin. Just the option "standard" will lead to this.
It is also mentioned in my formal notice sent to Epson.

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2020, 08:44:51 pm »

Sorry to hear about all the problems with new Epson, was really hoping to get one, but now thinking again.
BTW did you mean 3" of margin for turning on "optimize edge quality", did you actually try it ? manual pg 110 says it will add approx 35mm and given minimum is 3mm that's means approx 38mm total. More like 1.5 inches. Still a lot for someone like me that prefers sheets. But I could probably just about live with that. 3 inch margin on leading edge however would be a show stopper. Txs Mike
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2020, 09:23:37 pm »

Sorry to hear about all the problems with new Epson, was really hoping to get one, but now thinking again.
BTW did you mean 3" of margin for turning on "optimize edge quality", did you actually try it ? manual pg 110 says it will add approx 35mm and given minimum is 3mm that's means approx 38mm total. More like 1.5 inches. Still a lot for someone like me that prefers sheets. But I could probably just about live with that. 3 inch margin on leading edge however would be a show stopper. Txs Mike

Mike,   

Your question is an excellent one.  It doesn’t matter whether “optimize edge quality” is on or off (checked or not).  Same issues.  And worse is the random rescaling of the image!  And from my reading and thinking about the OEQ option, it’s apparently mostly for roll paper where the leading edge of a “just inserted” roll will naturally have a lot more curl than subsequently fed paper, ergo the extra feed.  Like you, sheet stock will still be my main demand, and this printer has a min margin of .56” on the lead edge as it is, which more limiting on some sheet stock than is my SC P5000, e.g., but I can live with that (or use the P5000 for really small sheets).

My posts are not intended to disparage Epson.  As I’ve said, I own, use and love several Epson printers.  Having said that, I’d hold off on this one until they figure it out.  Once it’s sorted out, I’m sure it will be class leading!  I’d lean in the direction of saying mine was merely defective if all the others I’ve communicated with were not experiencing similar issues.  Read the reviews from two 9570 owners on B&H.  The only two reviews.  Both “not so good.” 

Rand
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 09:33:30 pm by Rand47 »
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2020, 04:24:01 am »

In case of using Roll it is about 3 inches. And yes it needed, is my conclusion for now. I stopped using the printer forcthe moment as i have sent a formal notice to Epson The Netherlands last Friday.
Note : i normally print only occasionally on sheet paper. Given the relatively large amount of paper wasted with this printer, i do re-use that if possible .



Sorry to hear about all the problems with new Epson, was really hoping to get one, but now thinking again.
BTW did you mean 3" of margin for turning on "optimize edge quality", did you actually try it ? manual pg 110 says it will add approx 35mm and given minimum is 3mm that's means approx 38mm total. More like 1.5 inches. Still a lot for someone like me that prefers sheets. But I could probably just about live with that. 3 inch margin on leading edge however would be a show stopper. Txs Mike
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2020, 08:08:57 am »

UPDATE:

Two more weeks have gone by.  Still not a word from Epson Tech Support.  I suspect the COVID 19 lock-down here in CA is having an effect.  The Tech Support center is in Long Beach, CA. Would be nice to at least have an email letting me know it’s going to be a while, or whatever is the current status.

Rand
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