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Author Topic: SureColor P9570  (Read 37199 times)

deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2020, 11:10:28 am »

No, what they are saying on the phone to customers is the cut might not be complete and will dull the blade. IF that is true why don’t they make professional blades? In the larger scheme of things it doesn’t seem that complicated. Personally I don’t cut canvas with my internal cutters, but I sure should be able to do so. Some people only use canvas with these printers.

 As mentioned before Epson and Canon would like you to purchase the automated take up reel which would be a good production solution if you didn’t have the very real risk of head clog banding occurring in the middle of a job on the Epson machines.

Here is what the manual on the newly released system:


Settings > Roll Paper Setup > Auto Cut Settings on the control panel or adjust the auto cut settings in the printer driver. The setting selected in the printer driver overrides the control panel setting.
Note: If you are using the optional Auto Take-up Reel, disable the auto cut setting in the printer driver and on the control panel.

Caution: Do not use the built-in cutter with these paper types or you may damage or dull the built-in cutter:
• Fine Art Paper
• Canvas
• Vinyl
• Matteposterboard • Adhesivepaper
• Bannermedia
When you print on these paper types, you need to disable the Auto Cut setting and cut the print manually. You can print cutting guidelines to help you.
Cutting Roll Paper Manually Printing Trim Lines
Parent topic: Roll Paper Handling Related topics
Using the Auto Take-up Reel
Cutting Roll Paper Manually
You can disable the Auto Cut option to k

I think it is entirely due to the dust it creates, not the cutting of substrates. Canvas and most fine art papers can make a fair amount of dust inside the printer. To keep those potential issues at bay they say don't cut them.
Except it cuts them just fine. (I am referring to the older models) As long as you keep after the internal bay cleanliness (Vacuum or wipe done the fine dust particles) you should be fine.
I would like to hear from someone cutting canvas on a regular basis with the new model. That would be a killer for me if I could not use the internal cutter on canvas.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 11:35:30 am by deanwork »
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Dan Wells

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2020, 10:34:31 pm »

This seems pretty disappointing as an initial report - some driver issues and reduced gamut on some papers (why? I though it was eseentially the P7000 inkset with two extra channels - one adds violet and the other eliminates the PK/MK swap). The cutter issue is something that Epson's been saying forever, and photographers have been disregarding for just as long. These things are often (generally?) used by high-volume print shops - but even if you cut canvas all day long, every day, the worst thing that can happen is that you'll eventually blow through a cutter blade ($125)
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2020, 09:30:45 am »


No that’s not correct.

The worse thing that can happen is the media flops around only partially cut causing head strikes and destroying the head.


- but even if you cut canvas all day long, every day, the worst thing that can happen is that you'll eventually blow through a cutter blade ($125)
[/quote]
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2020, 11:35:06 am »

The cutting thing i neglect.
The reduced gamut issomething else.
Like i said, i need to find optima per paper type from square one. Today i measured some test prints on a matte Hahnemuhle paper, and found the max black to be at least equal to the scp9000.

The max black is just one point in a 3-dimensiomal gamut. The entire gamut and the transitions are actually more important.
The objective not colormanaged testprints is to find the optima in black- white and colour dimensions and transitions.


 
This seems pretty disappointing as an initial report - some driver issues and reduced gamut on some papers (why? I though it was eseentially the P7000 inkset with two extra channels - one adds violet and the other eliminates the PK/MK swap). The cutter issue is something that Epson's been saying forever, and photographers have been disregarding for just as long. These things are often (generally?) used by high-volume print shops - but even if you cut canvas all day long, every day, the worst thing that can happen is that you'll eventually blow through a cutter blade ($125)
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2020, 12:13:55 pm »

The cutting thing i neglect.
The reduced gamut issomething else.
Like i said, i need to find optima per paper type from square one. Today i measured some test prints on a matte Hahnemuhle paper, and found the max black to be at least equal to the scp9000.

The max black is just one point in a 3-dimensiomal gamut. The entire gamut and the transitions are actually more important.
The objective not colormanaged testprints is to find the optima in black- white and colour dimensions and transitions.

Do not the 3rd party papers' handling instructions provide "media type" for their ICC profiles?  But I'm guessing what you might be saying is that the various 3rd party paper companies don't have handling instructions or ICC profiles for this printer as of now.  (I checked with Canson and they do not have ICC profiles yet for these printers.  I've emailed them to ask about when we might expect them.)  Is that what we're hearing?   You're making your own profiles, and making educated guesses re appropriate media type?

If any of this is the case, then making judgments about the printer's image quality seems premature at best.  Have you tried Epson's ICC profiles for any of their papers as a starting place to see what you think of the printer?  Seems like a good place to start, even if you then move on to your own paper selection and ICC profile creation. 

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2020, 12:18:26 pm »

I tested the epson provided profile for Epson Premium Glosy Paper is wrong. The pure blue (0,0,255) is on the print brownish-black. Inquiry with others shows that others had problems as well and thus the Epson profiles are wrong. So even for standard available Epson papers one needs to do profiling.

I am testing with Hanhemuhle Photo Rag Bright White 310gsm, and this profiles shows an increased gamut in the area where the violet is probably active, see attached image:

Iam going to perform a factoiry reset and remove the Epson Media Installer, as that is nopt working well.
There are some quircks in the driver which are very annoying, i want to take the possible  influence of the Epson Media Installer out of these problems.
What i need is consistennt behaviour, and i do not have this right now. Everytime i open the driver to change paper size f.i. i do not want to check each and every setting for the correct value for starters.

So back to factory default and step by step take it from there.


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Jan R. Smit

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2020, 12:29:35 pm »

Do not the 3rd party papers' handling instructions provide "media type" for their ICC profiles?  But I'm guessing what you might be saying is that the various 3rd party paper companies don't have handling instructions or ICC profiles for this printer as of now.  (I checked with Canson and they do not have ICC profiles yet for these printers.  I've emailed them to ask about when we might expect them.)  Is that what we're hearing?   You're making your own profiles, and making educated guesses re appropriate media type?

If any of this is the case, then making judgments about the printer's image quality seems premature at best.  Have you tried Epson's ICC profiles for any of their papers as a starting place to see what you think of the printer?  Seems like a good place to start, even if you then move on to your own paper selection and ICC profile creation. 

Rand

Nope, non of the paper providers have published any thing regarding the new printers. Nor do i stick to those , i search for the best possible settings, and am doing that for 7+ years in a row now.

Also the Epson provided profiles are wrong, see my other post, so relying on paper proviers as an absolute is the wordt thing you can do. In the attached testprint (Epson Premium Glossy Paper plus Epson profided ICC profile ), the box circled in red should have been dark blue (0,0,255) it is actually brownish-black.
Not very smart of Epson, when launching a new generation printers to make such an error.

So no not exactly premature, actually i do share my findings with providers, even involved in Beta stages of papers.


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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2020, 12:25:10 pm »

Nope, non of the paper providers have published any thing regarding the new printers. Nor do i stick to those , i search for the best possible settings, and am doing that for 7+ years in a row now.

Also the Epson provided profiles are wrong, see my other post, so relying on paper proviers as an absolute is the wordt thing you can do. In the attached testprint (Epson Premium Glossy Paper plus Epson profided ICC profile ), the box circled in red should have been dark blue (0,0,255) it is actually brownish-black.
Not very smart of Epson, when launching a new generation printers to make such an error.

So no not exactly premature, actually i do share my findings with providers, even involved in Beta stages of papers.

I continue to be interested in your ongoing testing / results.  I’m assuming you have the latest driver version?  And, have you contacted Epson for their input on the problems you’re having w/ their profiles being so obviously “off”...  I’d think they’d be particularly interested since your results so far are very poor advertising for their new top of the line printers.

Rand
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:28:25 pm by Rand47 »
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Rand Scott Adams

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2020, 02:04:59 pm »

Thanks Rand. Yes findings are shared with the distributor, a gold partner of Epson, and i can say that for the Hahnemuhle fine art matte papers i have a found a good starting point.
The max black are like the scp9000 (DMax ~ 1.7 ) , the gamut is bigger. The transition from paper White to Black is fine.
Will do some more image prints tomorrow to see how these turn out . The Bill Atkinson test image looks fine.



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Jan R. Smit

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2020, 11:53:50 am »

A weird machine this new printer. Using the vfap for fine art matte  i now have made 2good looking profiles and almkst identical in gamut , black point of Lab-RGB Curve, yet one is made with color density set at minus 10% . Some gloss papers cannot handle the inkload at color density = 0 and need to be set at at least -10%
Really weird.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2020, 01:30:51 pm »

A weird machine this new printer. Using the vfap for fine art matte  i now have made 2good looking profiles and almkst identical in gamut , black point of Lab-RGB Curve, yet one is made with color density set at minus 10% . Some gloss papers cannot handle the inkload at color density = 0 and need to be set at at least -10%
Really weird.

From all this "outlier" behavior you're experiencing, and from some insider information I have that I cannot reveal the source, it almost sounds to me as though the printer you received is defective in some way.  Have you considered that?  Finding more default parameters that don't work, than that do work, seems more than just "different from other models" to me.

Best of luck as you move forward.

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2020, 04:29:01 pm »

Yes it is a consideration that it may be a problem with this printer.
 I did a factory reset earlier this week and removed the Epson media Installer on my test computer. The quircky behaviour of the driver is much less, and not a hindrance anymore.

To be continued
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2020, 08:11:44 am »

Looking at my posts in this thread i can believe that others get the feeling i have something against Epson printers. The contrary is true, i am using Epson printers now for more than 7 years: StylusPro4900, 9900, SCP8000, 7000, 9000 , and yes also experience with Canon and HP LFP's as well as the SCP20000.

I have replaced 2 of my printers (a SCP7000 and a SCP9000) while still perfectly printing after 4 years of daily use with the new SCP9500.
I firmly believe the new SCP7500/9500 are very good printers carrying the positive experiences of the previous printers including the SCP10000/20000. I believe it is a very good piece of re-engineering.


My drive is to bring digital art to life in unique fine art prints, and therefore focus on getting the maximum print quality for each of the many papers i carry in my print studio.

So i am searching for the maximum print quality of this new printer of Epson.

It took me some time to get to now the operation of this printer and are now quite happy with operating the printer.
Loading paper works nice, the paper type related parameters are on the printer, and no longer in de driver, which i like very much.
In the driver you can choose " Use Printer Settings"  or media paper type to override the active media type set on the printer and that works fine.
No more matte/gloss black switching of course ;-)

Also where people work, sometimes mistakers or errors are made or something is unclear for the user of such fine machines. This is a fact of life and Espon not excluded. Yes those points i find i share with the Epson partner who delivers my printers, so it is shared with Epson or ppaer-manufactures.

This is also where LuLa as forum comes into play, where one can share experiences/questions to the benefit of many.

And yes there is a error in the standard epson profiles for the premium  (gloss, luster, etc) papers, as you can see in the screencopies of ColorTinkPro:

So while this will be fixed by Epson at some point in the future, no doubt, but for now it is a issue. (i use the latest available firmware and driver(W10))
The results shown are prints of the same testchart, printed with Lightroom, using 3 different profiles while all other setting were kept the same:
the std epson profiles for Semi-Gloss 250 and Luster 260, and my own profile for the Semi-gloss paper.





« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 12:02:50 pm by JRSmit »
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mikev1

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2020, 11:15:10 am »

I appreciate you sharing your experience so far.
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Idololab

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2020, 06:19:00 am »

Thanks for the valuable information Jan! I am concerned about the new Media Roller System and how it works with sensitive  Glossy Fine Art media. Particularly I wish to know if some problems with scratches or roller marks in the blacks are eliminated.
Regards
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budjames

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2020, 07:04:39 am »

The new Epson P7570 looks great, especially the in-line switching of blacks without wasting any ink or time. However, my printing volume is low as I'm a hobbyist. My five year old Epson P800 can sit idle for many weeks yet it can print without any print head clogging, It's been great, however, I would like to be able to print to 24" wide and have the larger ink cartridges to reduce costs longterm.

I really want a new P800 replacement with the new ink set and inline black in switching capabilities. I can live with the 17" maximum width limitation of the current P800 if the replacement model has these two features. Perhaps a P800 replacement is on the way as the current model is over 5 years old. The 3880 was replaced with the P800 about 5 years after the 3880's introduction.

I still very interested in hearing how the P7570 print quality improves on the previous ink set models and what is considered the minimum usage to keep the unit "healthy".

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2020, 06:15:32 pm »

My Epson SC P 7570 is on the truck on its way to my place.  I'll be interested to see if I experience any hiccups along the way in getting it set up and tested.

Rand
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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2020, 06:51:27 pm »

My Epson SC P 7570 is on the truck on its way to my place.  I'll be interested to see if I experience any hiccups along the way in getting it set up and tested.

Rand

Good luck. Keep us posted, please.

JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2020, 11:03:21 am »

Thanks for the valuable information Jan! I am concerned about the new Media Roller System and how it works with sensitive  Glossy Fine Art media. Particularly I wish to know if some problems with scratches or roller marks in the blacks are eliminated.
Regards
What scratches or roller marks are you referring to ? Can you show photos of such marks?

Thusfar i did not really test with a full roll of fine art gloss.

First this over inking issue needs to be solved. Reported to Epson , waiting for the technician.
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2020, 11:06:51 am »

My Epson SC P 7570 is on the truck on its way to my place.  I'll be interested to see if I experience any hiccups along the way in getting it set up and tested.

Rand
Fingers crossed, this is ment in a positive sense.
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