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Author Topic: Ambassadorial Leaks  (Read 3475 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #100 on: July 13, 2019, 10:05:02 am »

.... I doubt that his reporting about Trump would be materially different from other ambassadors.

Because they all get it from the same source: American media.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #101 on: July 13, 2019, 10:52:36 am »

Because they all get it from the same source: American media.

You mean they are ethnically blocked from viewing e.g. Fox news and Breitbart?
Do they get a 'Kelly Ann Conway filter' installed when they cross the border?

Or do you mean that they can't rely on White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders's (no-longer-existing) press briefings?

Cheers,
Bart
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Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #102 on: July 13, 2019, 03:30:39 pm »

I imagine ambassadors advise their leaders to play it careful with Trump.  Stay on his good side.  Try to accomodate America's needs and complaints.  He has a "shoot from the hip" side.  On the other hand, he did not attack Iran when they shot down one of our drones.  This is all advantageous to America.  If you kiss his butt and support America, he'll compliment and support you.  If you become disloyal and do things that hurt America, then he'll take a swing at you.  Pretty much how he runs his life.  Exactly how a American president should operate.  I wouldn't expect less from your leaders.

I should imagine nobody tells their ambassador how to behave; knowing how is part of the job description - or selection criteria at the very least.

Conflating drones with Brit ambassadors is a wild one - but hey, it's the Internet!

I had not realised that a foreign ambassador owes his country of duty "loyalty"; I wonder if anyone else knew that? Does your man in Moscow feel he owes Russia a sense of loyalty? Oh, now wait a minute... Certainly that has to be the case in Israel. Gives "family" a warm, familar Italian feeling, doesn't it?

In any case, the ambassador did nothing wrong. The person or persons who did that are still to be discovered. Then, it will either be a public display of indignation or a quiet reprimand and possibly a prosecution. I would sue for treachery if it's on the UK side, and take it as rather stupid if from the American: what else do they expect ambassadors to do but give their opinions, just as do American ones - except of client countries in the Middle East, perhaps. Or maybe they don't and they all do it as you prescribe, so that their nation (America) never gets to hear what the noise of the truth on the ground sounds like. Could explain a lot; extend the fantasy into vital life situations. Cool.

Hollywood and Marlboro Man have never been so important before; now they have become the new reality.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #103 on: July 14, 2019, 06:28:35 am »

Trump axed Iran deal to spite Obama: How the British ambassador called the President's actions 'diplomatic vandalism' fueled by 'personality reasons' - as revealed in more explosive cables that have sparked a free speech row while Iran tensions mount
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7244539/Trump-axed-Iran-deal-spite-Obama-British-ambassador-says-Trumps-actions-diplomatic-vandalism.html

Quote
Sir Kim suggested there were splits among the President’s closest advisers and said the White House lacked a ‘day-after’ strategy on what to do following withdrawal from the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, as the deal was called.

Quote
Sir Kim could not hide his disappointment when at 1.38pm in Washington on May 8, he sent his cable.

‘I’m grateful to you for coming out on short notice and undertaking such a packed programme,’ he told Mr Johnson. ‘The outcome illustrated the paradox of this White House: you got exceptional access, seeing everyone short of the President; but on the substance, the Administration is set upon an act of diplomatic vandalism, seemingly for ideological and personality reasons – it was Obama’s deal.

‘Moreover, they can’t articulate any “day-after” strategy; and contacts with State Department this morning suggest no sort of plan for reaching out to partners and allies, whether in Europe or the region.’

Less than two hours later, the failure of Mr Johnson’s mission was confirmed when Mr Trump announced he was terminating America’s participation in the Iran deal and re-imposing sanctions.

In a second cable sent at 6.58pm Washington time, Sir Kim reported that ‘following a typically hyperbolic statement on the nature of the “murderous” Iranian regime, Mr Trump signed a presidential memorandum to start the process of reinstating US nuclear sanctions.’

Mr Trump’s decision was, he said, ‘the end of a long road’ and highlighted how Mr Bolton’s arrival in the White House in April 2018 ‘was widely predicted to cement this outcome.’

‘Much of the speech echoed lines we have heard from Bolton in person,’ he explained.

Alan K. will be pleased, Trump stuck to a campaign promise, and in the process causes a nuclear catastrophe in the Middle East.

Collateral damage, or plain incompetence?

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 07:47:51 am by Bart_van_der_Wolf »
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Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #104 on: July 14, 2019, 07:10:19 am »

Trump axed Iran deal to spite Obama: How the British ambassador called the President's actions 'diplomatic vandalism' fueled by 'personality reasons' - as revealed in more explosive cables that have sparked a free speech row while Iran tensions mount
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7244539/Trump-axed-Iran-deal-spite-Obama-British-ambassador-says-Trumps-actions-diplomatic-vandalism.html

Alan K. will be pleased, Trump sticked to a campaign promise, and in the process causes a nuclear catastrophe in the Middle East.

Collateral damage, or plain incompetence?

Cheers,
Bart


To your last question: Nero on the fiddle after lighting the fire in Rome.

A raving lunatic with the smallest finger on the biggest button. We may soon all rest in peace.

And to think women are accused of being irrational and swayed by monthly mood; this naked emperor does it by the minute.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #105 on: July 14, 2019, 10:02:57 am »

There are many Trump haters. One was sent to Washington as ambassador. End of story. For the ambassador, literally.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #106 on: July 14, 2019, 10:11:33 am »

... In any case, the ambassador did nothing wrong..

Hmmm. A matter of perception.

The ambassador spat into Trump’s soup. Like with the proverbial waiter, when done in the kitchen, nobody knows, nobody cares. When done on the way to the table, with everybody seeing it, a totally different outcome. The same soup, the same taste, and yet...

faberryman

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #107 on: July 14, 2019, 10:14:37 am »

There are many Trump haters. One was sent to Washington as ambassador. End of story. For the ambassador, literally.
I think the ambassador was just giving his professional assessment of the Trump administration. But I understand why you need to put the label "hater" on anyone who disagrees with him. 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 10:24:57 am by faberryman »
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Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2019, 10:18:40 am »

There are many Trump haters. One was sent to Washington as ambassador. End of story. For the ambassador, literally.

Implication: we should have sent a Trump admirer - could we but find one not called Farage. That way, we could get sent back to Blighty the official US line (plus hook and sinker) to toe instead of the observed one. Cool...

Slobodan, it's difficult enough as it is finding staff: I have none!

And to continue on personal woes: a very pleasant waitress at my French restaurant has walked off set this past week without even saying goodbye! It's the heat, you know: tempers are on unnaturally short fuses, and one poorly timed reprimand from Mr Boss and plates fly! I'm glad I wasn't there when it went down: I might have felt obliged to interfere and have lost access for ever more. Clearly, my timing was impeccable: never be in the right place at the wrong time.

;-)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2019, 10:42:50 am »

I think the ambassador was just giving his professional assessment of the Trump administration. But I understand why you want to put the label "hater" on anyone who disagrees with him. 

You first version of the reply, which you changed while I was writing this, started with:

Quote
I think you can believe Trump is incompetent without hating him.

I have yet to see a person who disagrees with Trump on everything without simultaneously hating his guts.

As for “incompetent.” By definition, he is expected to be. People knew it before they sent him to the White House. For someone without a day of experience in politics and government, he can not be, by definition, competent in those things. People chose him over someone who was labeled “uniquely qualified” (competent) to be president. It should tell you something. That being competent is not enough if people do not like what your are competently going to do. People sent him there to shake up same old, same old “competence.”

Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2019, 11:02:24 am »

You first version of the reply, which you changed while I was writing this, started with:

I have yet to see a person who disagrees with Trump on everything without simultaneously hating his guts.

As for “incompetent.” By definition, he is expected to be. People knew it before they sent him to the White House. For someone without a day of experience in politics and government, he can not be, by definition, competent in those things. People chose him over someone who was labeled “uniquely qualified” (competent) to be president. It should tell you something. That being competent is not enough if people do not like what your are competently going to do. People sent him there to shake up same old, same old “competence.”


I think you have just explained the rationale behind the Brexiteers: vote for it not expecting to be better off, just in a different and deeper hole. Makes warped sense, in its way.

Rob

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #111 on: July 14, 2019, 11:09:15 am »

You first version of the reply, which you changed while I was writing this, started with:

I have yet to see a person who disagrees with Trump on everything without simultaneously hating his guts.

As for “incompetent.” By definition, he is expected to be. People knew it before they sent him to the White House. For someone without a day of experience in politics and government, he can not be, by definition, competent in those things. People chose him over someone who was labeled “uniquely qualified” (competent) to be president. It should tell you something. That being competent is not enough if people do not like what your are competently going to do. People sent him there to shake up same old, same old “competence.”

Then why the (feigned) indignation when the ambassador calls it as it is?

Trump only cares about Trump. One should be ashamed of his followers, and not blame the messenger.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #112 on: July 14, 2019, 11:34:15 am »

Then why the (feigned) indignation when the ambassador calls it as it is?...

I already provided an explanation:

... The ambassador spat into Trump’s soup. Like with the proverbial waiter, when done in the kitchen, nobody knows, nobody cares. When done on the way to the table, with everybody seeing it, a totally different outcome. The same soup, the same taste, and yet...

faberryman

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #113 on: July 14, 2019, 11:37:54 am »

I have yet to see a person who disagrees with Trump on everything without simultaneously hating his guts.
I think you are projecting to make those you disagree with your enemies.

Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #114 on: July 14, 2019, 11:44:18 am »

Trump axed Iran deal to spite Obama: How the British ambassador called the President's actions 'diplomatic vandalism' fueled by 'personality reasons' - as revealed in more explosive cables that have sparked a free speech row while Iran tensions mount
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7244539/Trump-axed-Iran-deal-spite-Obama-British-ambassador-says-Trumps-actions-diplomatic-vandalism.html

Alan K. will be pleased, Trump stuck to a campaign promise, and in the process causes a nuclear catastrophe in the Middle East.

Collateral damage, or plain incompetence?

Cheers,
Bart


Iran's going to have the bomb in ten years with the current deal.  What kind of deal is that?  The problem was kicked down the road.  Better we face the problem now.  All they have to do is agree they won't make a bomb forever.  Isn't that what you want?  Why do you protect Iran?   

faberryman

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #115 on: July 14, 2019, 11:46:56 am »

All they have to do is agree they won't make a bomb forever.
Why would they do that?

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #116 on: July 14, 2019, 11:48:03 am »

I already provided an explanation:


The Ambassador was not spitting in his soup.

But someone felt it necessary to publicize confidential information, knowing that Trump couldn't ignore it.
WHO?

That's the only thing that matters.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #117 on: July 14, 2019, 11:48:09 am »

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #118 on: July 14, 2019, 12:00:30 pm »

Iran's going to have the bomb in ten years with the current deal.

On the contrary!!!

Under the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) most of Iran's production capabilities were dismantled, and a tight monitoring scheme was agreed upon. But now that deal is no more. But at least Trump held a promise ..., nevermind the consequences.

Cheers,
Bart
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Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #119 on: July 14, 2019, 01:38:10 pm »

Why would they do that?


Exactly. As with Israel (still neither denying nor admitting ownership?), NK and perhaps soon Iran, owning and holding is the only way of staving off the bigger guy. If he believes you to be a religious suicide jockey on top of that, then he will be even more careful. Remove that possibility and your Uncle or the friendly Bear can easily crush you without breaking wind. The question today is not why would any of these crush you, but why not?

Rob
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