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Author Topic: Ambassadorial Leaks  (Read 12473 times)

faberryman

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #160 on: July 20, 2019, 12:29:27 pm »

Hi Fab. Since your age is N/A, I'd guess you're too young to have been around when the thing actually was going on.
There you go again flattering me about how young I am, though for the life of me I can't figure out why you attribute my comment as having anything to do with age. And which "thing" are you talking about? The Iraq war?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 12:52:07 pm by faberryman »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #161 on: July 20, 2019, 12:50:50 pm »

Colin is a good guy, Pieter, but he wasn't always right. What he's saying is that he thinks the intelligence was wrong. I suspect it's Colin who was wrong. Every intelligence service in the world was convinced Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction. Once we got into Iraq the weapons weren't there. But I'm doubtful about the whole scenario. I suspect that the world's intelligence services were right and that, when faced with the obvious fact they were going to lose the war, the Iraqi military cleaned up the place. As I recall, there were some indications that was the case. But, of course, the news media aren't going to push that idea. They're going to push what they like to believe.

This is much more plausible than the latter explanations and reversals. The only remaining puzzle is when some of those details will emerge.
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faberryman

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #162 on: July 20, 2019, 12:53:49 pm »

This is much more plausible than the latter explanations and reversals. The only remaining puzzle is when some of those details will emerge.
It is plausible because there is no credible evidence? Why can't you just admit we made a mistake, learn from it, and move on?
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kers

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #163 on: July 20, 2019, 12:56:45 pm »

Colin is a good guy, Pieter, but he wasn't always right. What he's saying is that he thinks the intelligence was wrong. I suspect it's Colin who was wrong. Every intelligence service in the world was convinced Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction. Once we got into Iraq the weapons weren't there. But I'm doubtful about the whole scenario. I suspect that the world's intelligence services were right and that, when faced with the obvious fact they were going to lose the war, the Iraqi military cleaned up the place. As I recall, there were some indications that was the case. But, of course, the news media aren't going to push that idea. They're going to push what they like to believe.

I don't think it was an easy thing for Colin Powell to admit (t)his HUGE mistake.
Irak was under constant inspections by the international community before this war was started, just like Iran is under surveillance.
This commitee concluded that there was no evidence that Irak had weapons of mass destruction. Their findings were put aside by the US.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 01:19:56 pm by kers »
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Pieter Kers
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LesPalenik

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #164 on: July 20, 2019, 01:17:38 pm »

It is plausible because there is no credible evidence? Why can't you just admit we made a mistake, learn from it, and move on?

I haven't made any mistake, I was just an observer.
Bush wasted a lot of time searching for evidence. If they had acted sooner, they would have found the evidence.

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RSL

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #165 on: July 20, 2019, 01:52:44 pm »

I don't think it was an easy thing for Colin Powell to admit (t)his HUGE mistake.
Irak was under constant inspections by the international community before this war was started, just like Iran is under surveillance.
This commitee concluded that there was no evidence that Irak had weapons of mass destruction. Their findings were put aside by the US.

Sure, Pieter, the "inspections by the international community" involved areas where they were allowed to go, at times they were allowed to go there. That's not an "inspection" cycle that encourages confidence. It's the same crap that's been going on in Iran. The only kind of inspection arrangement that can even come close to guaranteeing anything is one that allows inspectors actually interested in turning up violations to go anywhere they want to go any time time want to go there. Of course thee was "no evidence."
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

RSL

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #166 on: July 20, 2019, 01:53:41 pm »

Okay, gang, I've wasted enough of my life on this idiotic "discussion." I'm outta here. You guys go ahead and keep rattling.
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #167 on: July 20, 2019, 02:15:39 pm »

Indeed. The incident at Gibraltar that triggered this Iranian reaction is rather vague. Why the Iranian tanker was exactly forced to stop, is not quite clear, but the timing does suggest that the USA had something to do with it. Maybe it was justified (illegal oil transport destination?), but how did they know the destination? Why is there not more information available?

So a reaction was provoked, and Iran seemingly responded (although the British tanker may have indeed made a maneuvering error).

What the USA doesn't seem to get, is that Iran has little more to lose now that sanctions are already crippling its economy. So they will be calling the USA's bluff call, and they do have a capable military force to push back with. It also bolsters the hawkish elements in the Iranian leadership, and it unites the Iranian people (a majority is relatively young) behind a common enemy, again. A new generation of USA haters is born.

And all that without a US Secretary of Defense ...

Cheers,
Bart
I suspect that both ships will be released as Britain and Iran make a deal. What will be interesting is whether the Iranian ship will return to Iran or will continue to Syria. If they do that they'll be violating US sanctions with oil and EU sanctions with trading with Syria. What will happen then?

Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #168 on: July 20, 2019, 02:59:17 pm »

And the answer as to what happened here?



Why the change of course that forced Iran to intercept???

 

Cheers,
Bart
Apparently your squiggly lines are different than my squiggly lines. In either case, it doesn;t appear the ship invaded Iranian waters but rather were "dragged" there by Iranian ships.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/19/743556229/iran-says-it-has-seized-a-british-tanker-in-strait-of-hormuz

Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #169 on: July 20, 2019, 03:01:32 pm »

I suspect that both ships will be released as Britain and Iran make a deal. What will be interesting is whether the Iranian ship will return to Iran or will continue to Syria. If they do that they'll be violating US sanctions with oil and EU sanctions with trading with Syria. What will happen then?

Nothing worth squat.

When they get near Syria they get Russian cover...

Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #170 on: July 20, 2019, 03:11:08 pm »

Nothing worth squat.

When they get near Syria they get Russian cover...

What will EU countries do since they violated your EU sanctions by trading with Assad? Europe always points fingers at America but doesn't stand up and take responsibility for its own actions. 

Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #171 on: July 20, 2019, 03:26:27 pm »

What will EU countries do since they violated your EU sanctions by trading with Assad? Europe always points fingers at America but doesn't stand up and take responsibility for its own actions.

Of course it does!

That's why it has huge National Health Services everywhere and you lot don't!

It's all that standing up makes it necessary. Saltpetre, yes, that's what we need! A teaspoon a day will fix everything; no more excessive standing up!

;-)

Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #172 on: July 20, 2019, 03:33:56 pm »

Well, Europe stands up with Britain.  Germany and France condemn Iran's seizure of British tanker.

Now Trump can relax and let you guys handle Iran.  Your oil is safe. 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-and-france-condemn-irans-seizure-of-british-tanker/a-49665532

Rob C

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #173 on: July 20, 2019, 03:35:26 pm »

Well, Europe stands up with Britain.  Germany and France condemn Iran's seizure of British tanker.

Now Trump can relax and let you guys handle Iran.  Your oil is safe. 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-and-france-condemn-irans-seizure-of-british-tanker/a-49665532

But are your cities?

Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #174 on: July 20, 2019, 03:36:15 pm »

Alan Klein

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #175 on: July 23, 2019, 08:40:29 pm »

Highly touted Cuban medical research at work.  Another reason to admire it.
https://nypost.com/2019/07/23/cuba-sonic-attacks-changed-us-diplomats-brains-study-finds/

LesPalenik

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Re: Ambassadorial Leaks
« Reply #176 on: July 23, 2019, 10:16:03 pm »

Highly touted Cuban medical research at work.  Another reason to admire it.
https://nypost.com/2019/07/23/cuba-sonic-attacks-changed-us-diplomats-brains-study-finds/

That's mystifying. Just a friendly Canadian embassy. Although there may be also other explanations for the strange sounds.

Quote
The sound that some believed may have caused the problems was later identified by insect experts as the mating call of the male Indies short-tailed cricket.

OTOH, something like couldn't happen to Russian embassy in Havana. That is a contemporary looking building, but built on ten acres like a fortress. Surrounded by 10 ft high outside wall, and the embassy walls must be also extremely thick and impenetrable.
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