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Author Topic: After Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. And The WINNAH is FUUUJIIII !!! )  (Read 18958 times)

hubell

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #380 on: October 11, 2018, 04:24:39 PM »

if Fuji would have come out with the 50R first, I am not sure Hasselblad would even consider continuing with the X line....
the 100S should be a turning point, IBIS and PDAF with a 100mpix sensor, crazy fast chip and crazy good and inexpensive lenses....and a nice travel size 50R as back up....C1 color and workflow.....hard to beat....
DJI never got involved with Hasselblad to take it to the top of digital MF...they bought the brand for legitimacy with their drone business....i wonder if when/if they will come out with a DMF drone just to mess with phase....with new lenses announced, Hasselblad will have to come out with a X2D but i doubt it will be able to compete and even if it does on features, it won't on price....

Hasselblad doesn't have to compete with Fuji at the lowest end of the market. It can continue to offer the X1D and cut the price to $5k but the lenses will still be way more expensive than the Fuji lenses. However,  I think it can thrive by offering a new X2D that is distinctively different and "better" than the Fuji 100S at the $10k-$15K level. The X2D can be better designed ergonomically, it can have an elegantly simple and streamlined user interface, and it can surely be MUCH lighter and smaller than the Fuji 100S.  It can be the anti-Japanese DSLR. If those are the "features" that someone wants and can afford it, they will pay the price premium. It happens all of the time with consumer goods. You just can't get your head around that because those aren't the features that matter to you, and you assume that everyone thinks like you. Price is NOT everything. It's only part of the equation. Looking at the Hasselblad X1D Facebook page, I am totally astonished at the number and types of photographers who have purchased an X1D and a range of lenses. I would never have expected it. Same with the Fuji GFX Facebook page.
As for DJI, it has APPARENTLY owned Hasselblad for less than 2 years. It seems folly to me to say what DJI will do with Hasselblad at this point. Who knows? Not me. Not you. Wait another year or two. Then we will have a better idea.
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faberryman

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #381 on: October 11, 2018, 04:28:17 PM »

...but the lenses will still be way more expensive than the Fuji lenses.
Hasselblad lenses will always be more expensive because they contain shutters.
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hubell

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #382 on: October 11, 2018, 04:40:14 PM »

I have to pause as I keep reading that DJI purchased a controlling interest in Hasselblad to improve their drones.   So far that is not the case.

Tons of time were spent on the Hasselblad inside the Mavic Pro2 and itís been anything but significant.  Camera itself is less than stellar and compared to the Phantom 4 pro camera which has been around close to 2 years no competition. Yes itís 20 MP but results are disappointing for stills as cameras have QA issues mainly due to decentered optical elements. Tons of issues on how DJI rolled out the high quality video segment. And overall less DR than the Phantom from the same chip. Yet a totally new processor supposedly was used.

And as for support, DJI has by far the worst I have seen.

However they own the consumer drone market so without serious competition I donít see their model changing anytime soon.

Paul C

1. You are conflating intention with execution. Just because DJI has not yet capitalized effectively on Hasselblad's capabilities to improve its drones doesn't mean that was not its intention.
2. My understanding is that Hasselblad's only involvement in the Hasselblad camera on the Mavic 2 was to develop the color pipeline. The hardware side of it was DJI.
3. I have no reason to doubt your comments about DJI's service. I am not surprised. This is a mass market consumer electronics device. No Doug or Steve on the other end of the line. However, that does not detract from the facts that DJI has very deep pockets and has achieved an extraordinary level of dominance in what should be a crowded space. I wouldn't underestimate them.
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hubell

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #383 on: October 11, 2018, 04:41:25 PM »

Hasselblad lenses will always be more expensive because they contain shutters.

It's also that they are manufactured by a third party, Nittoh. Two separate profit centers to feed!
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cgarnerhome

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #384 on: October 11, 2018, 04:43:40 PM »

I have to agree with Doug Levy.  As much as I love my 850 it's not even close for me.  I will actually sell my 850 as the Z7 is adequate for backup to my XF100.  I do agree most people don't need that kind of resolution and that the 850 can serve most people perfectly well.  It's an exceptional camera.

pschefz

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #385 on: October 11, 2018, 05:48:07 PM »

Hasselblad doesn't have to compete with Fuji at the lowest end of the market. It can continue to offer the X1D and cut the price to $5k but the lenses will still be way more expensive than the Fuji lenses. However,  I think it can thrive by offering a new X2D that is distinctively different and "better" than the Fuji 100S at the $10k-$15K level. The X2D can be better designed ergonomically, it can have an elegantly simple and streamlined user interface, and it can surely be MUCH lighter and smaller than the Fuji 100S.  It can be the anti-Japanese DSLR. If those are the "features" that someone wants and can afford it, they will pay the price premium. It happens all of the time with consumer goods. You just can't get your head around that because those aren't the features that matter to you, and you assume that everyone thinks like you. Price is NOT everything. It's only part of the equation. Looking at the Hasselblad X1D Facebook page, I am totally astonished at the number and types of photographers who have purchased an X1D and a range of lenses. I would never have expected it. Same with the Fuji GFX Facebook page.
As for DJI, it has APPARENTLY owned Hasselblad for less than 2 years. It seems folly to me to say what DJI will do with Hasselblad at this point. Who knows? Not me. Not you. Wait another year or two. Then we will have a better idea.

this is no lowest level market, there are no more levels left....it is what is left of the DMF market and things have settled at 33x44....and unless pentax makes a miraculous comeback, its fuji vs hasselblad....there is a top, top end DMF market which is in a completely different sphere....
I was thinking of what things would look like now if Fuji would have come out with the 50R first and how the market would have reacted to it vs X1D...the 50s got a lot of criticism for size, weight and its looks.....the 50R is very much like the X1D (which is a very pretty and compact camera)....i completely understand why a lot of people went with the X1D over the 50S, but if the 50R would have been in its place.....
the other criticism was the "non professional" workflow of LR .....C1 now supports the fujis (finally) which does not just bring another option to the table but arguably the best color tech and most experience with these sensors.....
price is just one factor, but sony and nikon are pushing into that DMF level in terms of IQ but easily winning in terms of size, weight and function as well as price....
the 100S is a totally different animal, i doubt Hasselblad will have IBIS, maybe they will have PDAF? (not sure where they would get the tech?), maybe they can cram the 100mpix sensor into a much smaller body, not sure what the point really would be or (again) the price?
buy that time sony will be out with a A7RIV ? which will be smaller, lighter, faster and very, very, very close in IQ with IBIS, PDAF.....what i mean is that for anyone looking for top IQ in a super compact package, the sonys and nikons (and panasonics?) will be right there....unless one wants a timeless piece of equipment with european history and pedigree (even if it is chinese all around, which does not bother me one bit btw)
it looks to me that Phase has conceded the 33x44 market and by supporting fuji they pushed Hasselblad into an area which is owned buy Leica right now....its own Stores, a lifestyle brand that does not compete with the rest of the market in features or function or price....Leica is handling is handling it beautifully, I love what they are doing, I am amazed that they just announced another S body....power to them....but what a 50R plus lens costs less (and looks better IMO) then one lens....AND produces better IQ (sorry, it does) you are playing in your own league.....
the toughest part for Hasselblad now is not which camera to make and how and how much to charge for it, it is that phase legitimized the Fuji 33x44 systems as professional......it will be hard for them to argue their way out of that one....they can bring up hasselblad colors but phase still is the industry standard.....especially as they are now the only top high end of the market and justifying it with superior color....
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BobShaw

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #386 on: October 11, 2018, 10:13:27 PM »

Hasselblad doesn't have to compete with Fuji at the lowest end of the market. ...
As for DJI, it has APPARENTLY owned Hasselblad for less than 2 years. It seems folly to me to say what DJI will do with Hasselblad at this point. Who knows? Not me. Not you. Wait another year or two. Then we will have a better idea.
Absolutely not to compete for crumbs. That is the way of death. You are competing with Canon and Nikon then.
A lot will also buy an X1D just as a backup camera for a H6D. I think Hasselblad is looking pretty good.

With DJI, apparently a lot.
Hasselblad has made aerial cameras for years.
https://youtu.be/-gMk5IojGfw
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Kirk_C

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #387 on: October 11, 2018, 11:58:47 PM »

Hasselblad lenses will always be more expensive because they contain shutters.

And for some of us the value of a leaf shutter is completely worth the extra cost. I have 2 projects coming up with products/people/materials being shot both in the studio and in mixed light location sets. The potential to keep a consistent look and color buy working with the leaf shutter lens/camera is key.

What percentage of the market has the same need I don't know.
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StoryinPictures

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #388 on: October 12, 2018, 01:45:44 AM »

And for some of us the value of a leaf shutter is completely worth the extra cost. I have 2 projects coming up with products/people/materials being shot both in the studio and in mixed light location sets. The potential to keep a consistent look and color buy working with the leaf shutter lens/camera is key.

What percentage of the market has the same need I don't know.

Can't the Hasselblad leaf lenses simply be used on the Fuji camera using the Fuji adapter?

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nemtom

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #389 on: October 12, 2018, 03:31:43 AM »

Can't the Hasselblad leaf lenses simply be used on the Fuji camera using the Fuji adapter?

I don't think that the adapter will trigger the leaf shutter...
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George_Cleansman

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #390 on: October 12, 2018, 03:38:39 AM »

.... also no autofocus  :(
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StoryinPictures

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #391 on: October 12, 2018, 08:32:31 AM »

If you buy the one made by Fuji, the specs list support for electronic aperture control, 1/800 flash sync, etc

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1311713-REG/fujifilm_16540698_h_mount_adapter_g.html

And it appears specific lenses have been tested for aperture control by Fuji:

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/compatibility/mountadapter/

AF, alas, does not work, so they are MF lenses...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 08:45:11 AM by StoryinPictures »
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vjbelle

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #392 on: October 12, 2018, 09:12:40 AM »

Can't the Hasselblad leaf lenses simply be used on the Fuji camera using the Fuji adapter?

No..... FFD is deeper on the Fuji.  Hassy X1D lenses would not be able to reach infinity.

Victor
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Paul2660

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #393 on: October 12, 2018, 09:26:51 AM »

Stated adapter was designed for the older Hasselblad MF lenses built around a optical viewfinder.

Paul C
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George_Cleansman

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #394 on: October 12, 2018, 11:21:47 AM »

Old lenses designed for mirror cameras mounted with adapters on new mirrorless cameras is not a good idea. New lens designs are necessary to achieve the full optical potential. 
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eronald

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #395 on: October 13, 2018, 03:26:11 PM »

Old lenses designed for mirror cameras mounted with adapters on new mirrorless cameras is not a good idea. New lens designs are necessary to achieve the full optical potential.

We're seeing some really interesting third-party lenses for Fuji MF. Here is a Mitakon 65mm F1.4. The samples look gorgeous. Me want!!!!

https://fujiaddict.com/2018/10/12/mitakon-zhongyi-speedmaster-65mm-f-1-4-for-fujifilm-gfx/

Edmund
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eronald

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BobShaw

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Re: After Photokina Medium Format rumors
« Reply #398 on: October 13, 2018, 05:40:20 PM »

> (UPD. And The WINNAH is FUUUJIIII !!! )

The desperation people go to justify their choices.
Meanwhile the rest of us just keep making money with ours.

(Please don't change the name of the post as it then becomes less useful than was.)
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eronald

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Re: After Photokina Medium Format rumors
« Reply #399 on: October 13, 2018, 05:52:42 PM »

> (UPD. And The WINNAH is FUUUJIIII !!! )

The desperation people go to justify their choices.
Meanwhile the rest of us just keep making money with ours.

(Please don't change the name of the post as it then becomes less useful than was.)

- I don't think GAS needs justification - it's an addiction.
- Editorial choice. This thread is now for new rumors, and the UPD field reflects material added into the top post, which tends to correlate to stuff discussed in the latest contributions.
- One should be able to profit from this thread by looking at the material at top, and then jumping to the last. Not that I think much profit can be accrued from reading rumors about gear, as you remark.
 
Edmund
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