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Author Topic: After Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. And The WINNAH is FUUUJIIII !!! )  (Read 23584 times)

eronald

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #360 on: October 09, 2018, 01:44:59 PM »

I agree to 1 and 2.
I am not so sure about 3. Lightroom probably is still the defacto standard.

Yeah, we will see. Lightroom is a good workflow app, but less convincing as a Raw converter. Consumers tend to catalog, but enthusiasts work intensively image by image.

Edmund
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hubell

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #361 on: October 09, 2018, 09:36:39 PM »

If I may hijack this thread again to speak about Medium Format changes at Photokina 2018:

- The Fuji GFX 50R camera announcements completely changed the economics of medium format ownership, as the entry price has fallen to under $5K.
- The Fuji pricing will effectively ripple into the existing used market, especially if the very modern 50R turns out to have superior focus.
- With Fuji on board, Capture One is now in a position where it could become the defacto Raw conversion standard across the industry.

Edmund

Hijack it all you want, but it is readily apparent that your observations about the medium format market are ill informed by your lack of understanding of some basic business realities. There are two kinds of investors in businesses. Strategic investors, who tend to have deep pockets and a long term investment horizon. They buy or invest in a business because it fits their long term goals to grow their existing business. In contrast, there are financial investors who buy businesses to grow them and sell them, ideally within 3-6 years. While they may have deep pockets also, they are very judicious about investing more money into that business unless they see a clear path to accelerating the growth of the existing business. There is no long term vision. They are in it to sell the company and return the proceeds to the investors. Fuji is a strategic investor. So is DJI, who own Hasselblad. Phase One, on the other hand, is owned by a financial investor who likely wants out and doesn't want to double down its investment at this stage. As I look at the landscape here, the one company among the three that are involved in the medium format market now that I think is at risk is Phase One. It has no seat at the table...none...as Fuji is selling huge numbers of bodies and lenses. Hasselblad's sales don't approach Fuji's, but Hasselblad is selling X1Ds and lenses way beyond its wildest dreams when somebody conceived the X1D. This new reality represents a sea change in the medium format market where as recently as two years ago Phase was the 800 pound gorilla. When the new bodies with the 100MP Sony sensor are released next year, things will only get worse for Phase One. They will soon be primarily a software company that possibly has a niche role with the Cultural Heritage stuff and maybe aerial mapping (though remember who owns Hasselblad). The decision to do a deal with Fuji for Capture One support just confirms that. As for whether Hasselblad will be steamrollered into oblivion by Fuji, I wouldn't bet on it. You are looking at all of this with tunnel vision. Your focus is on who announced what on September 25 of 2018, and drawing conclusions from that in order to keep your thread alive. This isn't a sprint event. It's a marathon. The owner of Hasselblad, DJI, completely dominates the drone market. Completely. I have no idea about the details of DJI's involvement with Hasselblad, but any company that achieves that level of dominance in a technologically driven market like drones is a force to be reckoned with.
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Kirk_C

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #362 on: October 09, 2018, 09:50:31 PM »

This isn't a sprint event. It's a marathon.

A very valid point but could I ask one big favor ?

Please use the enter key. A post that thick is really hard to read.

Giving us your thoughts in short sprints and not one big marathon will mean that more readers will make it to the end.
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StoryinPictures

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #363 on: October 09, 2018, 10:06:40 PM »

"Hijack it all you want, but it is readily apparent that your observations about the medium format market are ill informed by your lack of understanding of some basic business realities"

Wow.  A little harsh.

And perhaps also somewhat ironic that you start your post with these words. 

There are certainly investors who are good stewards and there investors who are Robber Barron's, but my experience is that there are many more senior executives who fall in the gray area between these black and white extremes.

From what I can see, Phase One is quite intelligently run. I have learned a few things which surprised me (in a good way) from how they do business and I believe they know quite well what they are about. They have been quite successful and I'm guessing they have a good shot at continuing to be so.

Most of the people buying Fuji are not people who can or would buy Phase cameras. Fuji is forging a new market of MF customers.

Phase may lose some business to Fuji, but Phase will also gain some business from those who transition up the chain, even if it is mostly rentals.

I'm pretty sure Phase doesn't sell a huge number of bodies to amateurs and probably not that many to professional photographers, either.  I'm guessing rentals and institutional sales are the bulk of it.

Smaller cameras getting better and eating into the capability of the bigger cameras...why does this have a familiar ring to it?  Oh, that's my phone ringing. Gotta go... ;)
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eronald

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #364 on: October 09, 2018, 10:09:43 PM »

If we edit out the personal attacks, I would say that there are some interesting strands of thought in your post.

Before Photokina 2018 I was totally bored with the MF market. I started the thread, but did not really understand that the competitive landscape might be significantly modified. And then the Fuji 50R  pricing hit, the C1 deal, Phase giving up on crop, and the Fuji Ibis 100Mp announcement, no response from Hassy, and no 150MP Hassy H, and suddenly MF looked like an island after a Tsunami.

In the wake of such an upheaval I agree that financial investors may call time on P1, while Hassy is a strategic purchase by DJI. On the other hand P1 may have some significant hidden software revenue and also potential from C1, and may survive as a software house. I have no idea what the numbers are on their cultural stuff and aerial mapping cameras, but I do suspect that military customers in Europe would prefer not to purchase their tech from China :)

Let me correct you however on the view of the market as a marathon - it is more like a mass wrestling event where new fresh fighters arrive in the ring as old and fatigued brawlers get choked out or simply walk away. The role of a commentator is only to call out significant events so viewers can focus on them. 

Pentax seems to be such a walk-away, and I agree that Phase may follow. However nobody would really miss these two contenders in 2018, not in the way the Hasselblad V, Rollei  and Contax products are fondly remembered.
 
As regards Hassy and DJI, I suspect that something is going on between DJI and Sony; one thing which might happen is DJI consolidating Phase and Hasselblad, thereby consolidating their aerial mapping activities and acquiring software to help keep the Hassy product line alive. Still photography, let's face it, may be entering a phase as a mature market in which strong consolidation is inevitable.

Edmund

PS - there are 13 Phase/Leaf backs on sale on the first 2 pages of the for sale forum. I think my prediction of Fuji setting off a stampede to the exits of legacy Phase back owners might have been accurate rather than merely provocative  ;D


Hijack it all you want, but it is readily apparent that your observations about the medium format market are ill informed by your lack of understanding of some basic business realities. There are two kinds of investors in businesses. Strategic investors, who tend to have deep pockets and a long term investment horizon. They buy or invest in a business because it fits their long term goals to grow their existing business. In contrast, there are financial investors who buy businesses to grow them and sell them, ideally within 3-6 years. While they may have deep pockets also, they are very judicious about investing more money into that business unless they see a clear path to accelerating the growth of the existing business. There is no long term vision. They are in it to sell the company and return the proceeds to the investors. Fuji is a strategic investor. So is DJI, who own Hasselblad. Phase One, on the other hand, is owned by a financial investor who likely wants out and doesn't want to double down its investment at this stage. As I look at the landscape here, the one company among the three that are involved in the medium format market now that I think is at risk is Phase One. It has no seat at the table...none...as Fuji is selling huge numbers of bodies and lenses. Hasselblad's sales don't approach Fuji's, but Hasselblad is selling X1Ds and lenses way beyond its wildest dreams when somebody conceived the X1D. This new reality represents a sea change in the medium format market where as recently as two years ago Phase was the 800 pound gorilla. When the new bodies with the 100MP Sony sensor are released next year, things will only get worse for Phase One. They will soon be primarily a software company that possibly has a niche role with the Cultural Heritage stuff and maybe aerial mapping (though remember who owns Hasselblad). The decision to do a deal with Fuji for Capture One support just confirms that. As for whether Hasselblad will be steamrollered into oblivion by Fuji, I wouldn't bet on it. You are looking at all of this with tunnel vision. Your focus is on who announced what on September 25 of 2018, and drawing conclusions from that in order to keep your thread alive. This isn't a sprint event. It's a marathon. The owner of Hasselblad, DJI, completely dominates the drone market. Completely. I have no idea about the details of DJI's involvement with Hasselblad, but any company that achieves that level of dominance in a technologically driven market like drones is a force to be reckoned with.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 11:41:32 PM by eronald »
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hubell

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #365 on: October 09, 2018, 11:44:41 PM »

Come on, Fuji Rumors has been trumpeting the release of the Fuji 50R and the likely price point for months. The 50R and the price were hardly news. Same with the GFX 100S. Everybody has known about it for what a year? The only surprises to me were (1) the relative high price point, (2) it is perhaps 9 months away from release, and (3) IBIS. Only #3 is positive news. If Fuji had said that the GFX 100S would shipping in two months and the price was $7000, THAT would have shaken up the market. They didn't. The one real piece of news that I didn't see coming was Phase raising  the white flag,  leaving the cropped MF marketplace to Fuji and Hasselblad and doing a deal with Fuji on C1. Is that such a big deal that it imperils Hasselblad's very existence? Not as I see it. Fuji was already selling a boatload of GFXs to photographers who were totally committed to Capture One. They still bit the bullet and apparently learned to live with LR/ACR. My sense is that the vast majority of prospective X1D/X2D buyers are let's say enthusiasts who couldn't care less about Capture One. To them, it's just a fringe alternative to LR that isn't worth the bother to learn. If the purchaser of an X1D wants the very best raw converter, there is Phocus. It's not nearly as feature rich as C1, but the raw file conversions of X1D files out of it are superb.
Was I surprised that Hasselblad had no announcement at Photokina about the X2D or an H7150? Somewhat, but I don't read that much into it. We know the X2D is coming; we just don't know when. There are likely very good reasons why Hasselblad chose not to make a "development" announcement on the X2D. One, they want to avoid a repeat of the premature announcement/release of the X1D. Two, why announce a successor to the X1D when you don't have the replacement product ready to go? The sales of X1Ds would dry up overnight. Fuji could pull of the 100MP announcement because it had the 50R ready to go at less than half the price of the GFX 100S. Three, why play your hand about the features of the X2D in advance at Photokina where your news is in the shadow of the Nikon Z, Canon's mirrorless, Fuji's announcement about the 50R the 100S and C1, etc?
I agree about Phase and where the company may go in the future. Spin off the software business, which does seem to have a bright future, and then sell the vestiges of the camera business to a buyer that can incorporate the valuable assets still left. Who would that be? Hasselblad! That would solve two problems. The combined company would have the X1D as the high volume, cropped MF platform to continue to develop. It would also have the the Phase XF and the Phase lenses for the very high end. The Hasselblad H body and most of the HC lenses are in need of a serious update, and Hasselblad could avoid that effort and expense.


quote author=eronald link=topic=126511.msg1072192#msg1072192 date=1539137383]
If we edit out the personal attacks, I would say that there are some interesting strands of thought in your post.

Before Photokina 2018 I was totally bored with the MF market. I started the thread, but did not really understand that the competitive landscape might be significantly modified. And then the Fuji 50R  pricing hit, the C1 deal, Phase giving up on crop, and the Fuji Ibis 100Mp announcement, no response from Hassy, and no 150MP Hassy H, and suddenly MF looked like an island after a Tsunami.

In the wake of such an upheaval I agree that financial investors may call time on P1, while Hassy is a strategic purchase by DJI. On the other hand P1 may have some significant hidden software revenue and also potential from C1, and may survive as a software house. I have no idea what the numbers are on their cultural stuff and aerial mapping cameras, but I do suspect that military customers in Europe would prefer not to purchase their tech from China :)

Let me correct you however on the view of the market as a marathon - it is more like a mass wrestling event where new fresh fighters arrive in the ring as old and fatigued brawlers get choked out or simply walk away. The role of a commentator is only to call out significant events so viewers can focus on them. 

Pentax seems to be such a walk-away, and I agree that Phase may follow. However nobody would really miss these two contenders in 2018, not in the way the Hasselblad V, Rollei  and Contax products are fondly remembered.
 
As regards Hassy and DJI, I suspect that something is going on between DJI and Sony; one thing which might happen is DJI consolidating Phase and Hasselblad, thereby consolidating their aerial mapping activities and acquiring software to help keep the Hassy product line alive. Still photography, let's face it, may be entering a phase as a mature market in which strong consolidation is inevitable.

Edmund
[/quote]
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Christopher

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I think you are overseeing one big possibility here. DJI wanted mainly the name Hasselblad and never had any real untreated in running a camera business.

Why? Because to their drones itís just not very profitable. I hope Iím wrong, because I really would not like rinse only one player in FF MF at the end. However, I donít see DJI investing to much in new H lenses and cameras.

I donít see an X2D below 10k and not before Fuji releases the GFX 100s.

Im with Edmund, that Fuji is changing the rules. As long as DJI doesnít spent huge amounts of money there is no catching up.

Regarding Phase, I really donít see them going away in the near future. They havenít sold lots of backs before and they wonít now. However, they donít need to. They run a very low number, high margin business. In addition, opening up C1 and going more and more into software has some huge potential.

Letís look at an example of a Phase Mirrorless cropped medium format camera. From a business perspective it makes no sense. Developing a camera and completely new lenses costs a huge amount of money. They would still need to sell it below 15k. Everyone thinking it could sell for a big premium is kidding them self... not when Fuji offers these prices.

So going below 15k would mean selling huge amounts to get all the costs back in. Itís just not realistic.


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John Hollenberg

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #367 on: October 10, 2018, 09:41:19 AM »

There are two kinds of investors in businesses.

There are two kinds of investors in businesses--investors in businesses who say there are two kinds of investors in businesses and investors in businesses who don't.  ;) :D ;D
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eronald

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #368 on: October 10, 2018, 11:35:20 AM »

Regarding Phase, the dealers who were selling middle-priced solutions and Hassy backs have lost their product, with the departure from crop, leaving only the top guys. Even Doug may be affected. Less dealers probably means less sales, so Phase may contract down to a special solution camera and software house.

My feeling within a month or two the Hassy situation will have played out with some sort of merger, and then the H will probably get killed and the XD will have its dev costs written off and the price will match Fuji.

Edmund
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hubell

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I think you are overseeing one big possibility here. DJI wanted mainly the name Hasselblad and never had any real untreated in running a camera business.

Why? Because to their drones itís just not very profitable. I hope Iím wrong, because I really would not like rinse only one player in FF MF at the end. However, I donít see DJI investing to much in new H lenses and cameras.

I donít see an X2D below 10k and not before Fuji releases the GFX 100s.

Im with Edmund, that Fuji is changing the rules. As long as DJI doesnít spent huge amounts of money there is no catching up.

Regarding Phase, I really donít see them going away in the near future. They havenít sold lots of backs before and they wonít now. However, they donít need to. They run a very low number, high margin business. In addition, opening up C1 and going more and more into software has some huge potential.

Letís look at an example of a Phase Mirrorless cropped medium format camera. From a business perspective it makes no sense. Developing a camera and completely new lenses costs a huge amount of money. They would still need to sell it below 15k. Everyone thinking it could sell for a big premium is kidding them self... not when Fuji offers these prices.

So going below 15k would mean selling huge amounts to get all the costs back in. Itís just not realistic.


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Why does Hasselblad have to "catch up" to Fuji? You don't think there is room for two players who produce two distinctly different cropped MF camera systems? There are relatively few consumer product segments where there is only one player. (Other than the drone segment, and you know who controls that.) 
Is DJI in it for the long haul with Hasselblad to develop the MF side of the business? I think so, but I am not privy to the R&D budget or the long range strategic plan. Your assumption is that DJI bought Hasselblad just for the name. That is a possibility, but even if DJI wanted the name for the halo effect, that doesn't last long if Hasselblad's camera business is shuttered. The halo effect only works if the market perceives Hasselblad as a producer of premium products. I also think that DJI wanted Hasselblad for its expertise in developing the color pipeline for the cameras used in the DJI drones. I personally prefer it to all of the other digital systems I have worked with. I gather this is exactly what Hasselblad's role was in the development of the Hasselblad branded camera in the Mavic 2 Pro.
I hope the doomsayers are wrong. It will be a sad state of affairs if the only options left in MF are Japanese-style DSLRs from Fuji.
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eronald

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I expect Phase to contract its staff and dealer net substantially at this point, as their only prosumer hardware product costs $50K. When it is contracted, the compact core will make a desirable acquisition target for a third party in culture or aerial imaging.

Edmund

Why does Hasselblad have to "catch up" to Fuji? You don't think there is room for two players who produce two distinctly different cropped MF camera systems? There are relatively few consumer product segments where there is only one player. (Other than the drone segment, and you know who controls that.) 
Is DJI in it for the long haul with Hasselblad to develop the MF side of the business? I think so, but I am not privy to the R&D budget or the long range strategic plan. Your assumption is that DJI bought Hasselblad just for the name. That is a possibility, but even if DJI wanted the name for the halo effect, that doesn't last long if Hasselblad's camera business is shuttered. The halo effect only works if the market perceives Hasselblad as a producer of premium products. I also think that DJI wanted Hasselblad for its expertise in developing the color pipeline for the cameras used in the DJI drones. I personally prefer it to all of the other digital systems I have worked with. I gather this is exactly what Hasselblad's role was in the development of the Hasselblad branded camera in the Mavic 2 Pro.
I hope the doomsayers are wrong. It will be a sad state of affairs if the only options left in MF are Japanese-style DSLRs from Fuji.
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Doug Peterson

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I expect Phase to contract its staff and dealer net substantially at this point, as their only prosumer hardware product costs $50K.

Phase One options (certified pre-owned with warranty, brand new accessories, and full dealer support) start at $10k.

https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/product-category/refurbished-backs-bodies-lenses/pre-owned-phase-one-digital-backs/

eronald

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #372 on: October 10, 2018, 09:27:02 PM »

It's statements like this that define your credibility, or to me your lack of it. This is not personal, please do not be offended, that is not my intention. I just think you have developed a very myopic view of the industry.

Here is the U.S. you can walk into a store and buy an RCA branded TV. You can buy a Sharp branded TV many places all over the world. Both companies once were stand alone brands that achieved a perceived value of high quality but eventually fell prey to the globalization of technology and failed. Then a Pacific Rim investment group bought the brands, had TVs made in China and re-marketed the brands to the unsuspecting public and to this day they make a good return on their investment.

Brands have value.

Smart investors don't buy a legendary brand like Hasselblad and kill it because they're not competitive in the quickly evolving market. Particularly when that brand has some of the best components ( and minds ) in the process of producing good color images that have served as a reference for others. A process they have been consistent with for years while sourcing sensors of varying brand and quality.

Nobody here knows how well Hasselblad is, or isn't doing in sales, profit or development of their next products. Until we read the next press release it's all speculation.

Kirk,

 There may be a misunderstanding here. Hasselblad currently has the obsolescing H series SLR and the mirrorless XD in its product line. I am forecasting that the aging H cash-cow may be sent to the slaughterhouse, while the new and dynamic XD series will step forward and become the earner.

 The forecast about the possible demise of the H model may be myopic as viewed from outside this forum, and has no real effect anymore on Hassy's health; however quite a few readers here happen to own that camera system.

 As for the rest, I have been called an idiot quite a few times in my life. It hasn't killed me, and some of those times the person who qualified me was right. Sometimes I was.

Edmund
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 09:30:47 PM by eronald »
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Kirk_C

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #373 on: October 10, 2018, 10:08:38 PM »


 There may be a misunderstanding here.

Hah! Yeah I sure read your post wrong. Deleting mine now.
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eronald

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Re: Photokina ... announcement Medium Format thread: Fujifilm goes IBIS!
« Reply #374 on: October 11, 2018, 04:49:55 AM »

Hah! Yeah I sure read your post wrong. Deleting mine now.

Of course, all you say about rebranding is more than correct. A brand in itself is an asset, in fact an asset that is often easier to purchase fully grown than to build from scratch. "Luxury brand management" is the one business topic which students from all over the world come to learn here in Paris. Incidentally,, most of those students are female :)

Edmund
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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #375 on: October 11, 2018, 05:44:55 AM »

It's very interesting to watch the tables turn the way they have.

To add interest to the discussion, I am blown away by how the film resurgence is taking hold. It's getting to the point where in something like fashion, there are more film photographers than digital. If you look somewhere like Art Partner which is one of the top two photographers agencies in the world and probably, currently, the most relevant, if you remove the two still life from the list (digital just aesthetically suits still life and product) you are left with 11 photographers. SEVEN of those eleven are FILM photographers. It's also interesting to note that only one of those eleven is still shooting Phase One. A few years back nearly all their roster was shooting Phase One.

What's also interesting is how the younger generation are rejecting digital for film. It's funny and ironic that the old school are now the digital shooters and the younger generations work on film is what is considered fresh.

So in more than one way the tables are really turning. Considering all the variables and the return of film, it's almost like a Monty Python movie, but I think on whole it represents a camera manufacturer industry out of touch with the times and their customers and all they want is their money. It seems like the only real thing they have left to market is 150MP - that represents a total lack of vision to me. Hasselblad, at least, has the older film backs to push but it strikes me as really quite odd that in this current climate no one is pushing a film/digital hybrid and the industry is being served by some exceptionally well built Pentax 67's and RZ's.

Otherwise, I think the MFD game is over, won by Fuji and I can't see how anyone can compete on this level of vision, innovation and price in the same package. It will be interesting to see how Hasselblad and Phase One navigate what is looking like a very bumpy future.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 06:37:19 AM by Bo_Dez »
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Paul2660

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #376 on: October 11, 2018, 08:51:23 AM »

I have to pause as I keep reading that DJI purchased a controlling interest in Hasselblad to improve their drones.   So far that is not the case.

Tons of time were spent on the Hasselblad inside the Mavic Pro2 and itís been anything but significant.  Camera itself is less than stellar and compared to the Phantom 4 pro camera which has been around close to 2 years no competition. Yes itís 20 MP but results are disappointing for stills as cameras have QA issues mainly due to decentered optical elements. Tons of issues on how DJI rolled out the high quality video segment. And overall less DR than the Phantom from the same chip. Yet a totally new processor supposedly was used.

And as for support, DJI has by far the worst I have seen.

However they own the consumer drone market so without serious competition I donít see their model changing anytime soon.

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pschefz

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #377 on: October 11, 2018, 02:06:17 PM »

if Fuji would have come out with the 50R first, I am not sure Hasselblad would even consider continuing with the X line....
the 100S should be a turning point, IBIS and PDAF with a 100mpix sensor, crazy fast chip and crazy good and inexpensive lenses....and a nice travel size 50R as back up....C1 color and workflow.....hard to beat....
DJI never got involved with Hasselblad to take it to the top of digital MF...they bought the brand for legitimacy with their drone business....i wonder if when/if they will come out with a DMF drone just to mess with phase....with new lenses announced, Hasselblad will have to come out with a X2D but i doubt it will be able to compete and even if it does on features, it won't on price....

but in the end the "old" A7RIII still is the better all around camera....nikon, canon and now panasonic are scrambling to catch up, fuji is really starting to lead the APC market as well, incl video....there is a reason why VW has a lot of brands sharing platforms and tech, upping the price with gloss and features.....

the biggest news for me is the software going into camera phones.....iphone XS, pixel 3.....the computing power and frame averaging is insane.....pixel 3 calculates 15 frames (before the shot is even taken!) into one pic....yes the sensor is tiny and the lenses are crap....but in the end it all comes down to how it turns out.....

sony and fuji are going ahead because they have the large market to spread R&D around, sensors are getting better but there are limits, AF is all about processing power and software now, lenses are as much about perfect manufacturing as they are about software lens correction and how the two provide a final result....

film has made a huge comeback, which is great, but a lot of it (especially in the lofty heights of Art Partner) is about a special something (also called dog and pony show) which years ago used to be the first digital cameras, then everybody had to have a phase (or hasselblad) back on set.....and in the end everything gets shot on canons (now sonys)......I am all for film but if you scan a 120 negative one anything less then the highest end drum scanner (which nobody does) you end up with a file inferior to a 2016 top end DSLR.....but that is not he point anyway, its about the process and honestly I think (especially in fashion) people love to shoot film again because you can't tether and you don't have everybody glued to the monitor analyzing every single frame.....its like in the old days, the photographer and the models in a dance.....and hey! its film! its cool!
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DougDolde

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #378 on: October 11, 2018, 03:57:37 PM »

Heck most people don't need 33x44 to dump Phase One. The D850 is sufficient.  Better in every regard except resolution which most of us don't need anyway
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douglevy

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Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #379 on: October 11, 2018, 04:06:14 PM »

"Better in every way except resolution." Doug I have to disagree hard here. I have a 850. I love it. It's better in MANY ways than my H setup. It's not better in color or sharpness though (or resolution).
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