After Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. And The WINNAH is FUUUJIIII !!! )

[StoryinPictures]

We're seeing some really interesting third-party lenses for Fuji MF. Here is a Mitakon 65mm F1.4. The samples look gorgeous. Me want!!!!

https://fujiaddict.com/2018/10/12/mitakon-zhongyi-speedmaster-65mm-f-1-4-for-fujifilm-gfx/

Edmund

Has anyone seen any indication about pricing and availability for the 65mm/1.4?

[Bo_Dez]

That Mikaton 65mm 1.4 looks pretty damn good.

[Bo_Dez]

"Better in every way except resolution." Doug I have to disagree hard here. I have a 850. I love it. It's better in MANY ways than my H setup. It's not better in color or sharpness though (or resolution).

And Puny viewfinder, and some like the bigger camera size, Trufocus, 16bit, the file quality in post etc etc etc

But the Nikon D850 is an exceptional camera. I wouldn't say it replaces medium format and I wouldn't say it was the right tool for every job, and that's just the same for Medium Format. I would use it to supplement Medium Format though.

[Bo_Dez]

When on earth is Phase One going to bring out a fast lens? An 80mm f2 or something.

It's very long overdue.

[douglevy]

That dof would be impossibly small, and suuuuuuuuper hard to focus wide with the current systems and resolution. And wouldn't that lens be massive?

[Bo_Dez]

All the existing f2 medium format lenses are not massive.

The DOF would be very small but it would be fine for those that use that sort of thing in their work. There are lenses with even less DOF out there.

[douglevy]

You're probably right. I just know how difficult is is to achieve critical sharpness with my 80 at 2.8.

[eronald]

You're probably right. I just know how difficult is is to achieve critical sharpness with my 80 at 2.8.

Absolutely. Leave the 80 F2.0 lenses to cameras like the Contax and the 80 F1.9 to the Hasselblad XD, cameras that were designed for amateur photographers who need decent AF while real photographers use F8.

Edmund

[nemtom]

All the existing f2 medium format lenses are not massive.

The DOF would be very small but it would be fine for those that use that sort of thing in their work. There are lenses with even less DOF out there.

With the respect to the Contax Zeiss Planar (which I like a lot, even doing crazy things like this: https://500px.com/photo/264337919 ), I must tell, that that lens is not up to the standards of the Schneider-Kreuznach criterion, which all new Phase One lens follows. Having able to achieve the required sharpness, resolution, minimal aberrations, one would need a huge glass (I'm thinking about the 150/2.8 BR), which would not be well received by the most of the photographers.

[Bo_Dez]

Absolutely. Leave the 80 F2.0 lenses to cameras like the Contax and the 80 F1.9 to the Hasselblad XD, cameras that were designed for amateur photographers who need decent AF while real photographers use F8.

Edmund

LOL. You are joking, right? Surely. You don't normally make such an ignorant comment.

[Bo_Dez]

With the respect to the Contax Zeiss Planar (which I like a lot, even doing crazy things like this: https://500px.com/photo/264337919 ), I must tell, that that lens is not up to the standards of the Schneider-Kreuznach criterion, which all new Phase One lens follows. Having able to achieve the required sharpness, resolution, minimal aberrations, one would need a huge glass (I'm thinking about the 150/2.8 BR), which would not be well received by the most of the photographers.

Take a look at the Hasselblad 80mm though. It looks well corrected and it's not enormous. I don't think the larger sensor coverage is going to make it exponentially larger. Given the size of the XF it would be well balanced, too.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Having magnified live view it would not be difficult, if the lens can achieve critical sharpness at f/2.8, that is.

No joke here, many lenses have quite fuzzy focus in magnified live view.

Best regards
Erik

You're probably right. I just know how difficult is is to achieve critical sharpness with my 80 at 2.8.

[eronald]

There is an interview up on dpreview, summarised on  FujiAddict.
https://fujiaddict.com/2018/10/23/dpreview-fujifilm-interview-we-will-never-go-full-frame-interchangeable-instax-is-a-possibility-and-much-more/

We learn the 50R is designed for one-handed use, users are coming in from other systems not upgrading from Fuji APS-C, the 100 will have a much faster viewfinder, and IBIS eats a lot of power
Also Fuji is doing everything they can to lure videographers to try the MF look. .

Edmund

[araucaria]

I hope they will include RAW video like the hasselblad and the RED Cameras. The hasselblad was a nice try but the sensor is too slow for video (rolling shutter). For 10.000$ this will be in the upper video segment where raw is mandatory (raw is easy to do, and with the correct compression you can even use it on SD cards, look at the hacked canons)

[eronald]

I hope they will include RAW video like the hasselblad and the RED Cameras. The hasselblad was a nice try but the sensor is too slow for video (rolling shutter). For 10.000$ this will be in the upper video segment where raw is mandatory (raw is easy to do, and with the correct compression you can even use it on SD cards, look at the hacked canons)

Blackmagic proved you can make a very good living out of affordable Raw video
My best guess is that at this stage Fuji will supply some high-speed output to an external recorder - which is perfectly sufficient for "pro" applications in that price bracket.
And Fuji will probably reuse whatever they develop for the mass-market side of things.

Apart from sensor size, it's unclear exactly what added value the GFX series would bring to the video table. The interview says the new sensor is much faster.

Edmund

[nemtom]

Take a look at the Hasselblad 80mm though. It looks well corrected and it's not enormous. I don't think the larger sensor coverage is going to make it exponentially larger. Given the size of the XF it would be well balanced, too.

If you look up the MTF and Transmittance chart of that lens ( Official data sheet ), you would see that it is not tack-sharp wide open, and it has quite visible vignetting. That would quite possibly prevent a hypothetical 80/2 to be called Schneider Kreuznach.
On the other hand there would be possible to design a 80/2 lens which satisfies the SK requirements, but that would be humongous.

Just to be able to imagine the size increase I took a snapshot of the two 150 lens available today (both satisfying the SK requirement). Note, that the 150/3.5 is not a BR, but it is the same size, and also please note that the difference between those two lenses are less than one stop. (I hope the attachment will magically show up)

[eronald]

So it turns out that phase contrast AF on the main sensor is not so easy

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2670904610/five-ways-nikon-could-improve-the-z7?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

Which may be why we are not seeing an announcement for a 100MP Hassy mirrorless. XD2.

Obviously, Sony camera corp has a lot of secret sauce concerning AF which they keep to themselves, even while Sony semiconductor sells sensors to every vendor.

Edmund

[chrismuc]

So it turns out that phase contrast AF on the main sensor is not so easy

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2670904610/five-ways-nikon-could-improve-the-z7?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

Sony (A7RIII) and Fuji (X-T3) seem to have no problems to use PDAF very effectively with Sony BSI sensors, so let's hope Fuji succeeds with the GFX100 in the same way.

[eronald]

Sony (A7RIII) and Fuji (X-T3) seem to have no problems to use PDAF very effectively with Sony BSI sensors, so let's hope Fuji succeeds with the GFX100 in the same way.

We will see how it goes - the larger cameras get the best features after the smaller ones which get them well after the cellphones.

One problem is that companies like Nikon and Canon probably have their own code, tuned for their own historical PDAF sensors, possibly with the original engineers already kicked upstairs or retired.
Modding the code to work with a new sensor technology may be harder than starting from scratch, which is presumably what we see with Sony and Fuji.

IN ANY CASE THE DPREVIEW ARTICLE IS A TERRIBLE INDICTMENT OF THE CURRENT NIKON MIRROLESS.. I've never seen dpreview be so nasty about a product, they almost red-stamped "DOES NOT WORK" on the Z.

Edmund

[BJL]

There has been much enthusiasm about the downward price trend with Fujifilm GFX bodies in 44x33mm format, so I have some slightly skeptical thoughts. (About pricing, not the desirability of the products.)

The 50MP sensor used is relatively ancient and now more or less discontinued; it was the first CMOS sensor in a format larger than 36x24, arrived in the Phase One IQ250 and Hasselblad H5D-50c in March 2014 and the Pentax 645Z that April, and the latest Sony product lists drop it (and its 100MP 54x40mm big brother) in favor of the new 100MP 44x33 and 150MP 54x40 sensors. Indeed this sensor was already "old tech" by the time that Fujifilm and Hasselblad use in it their first EVF cameras. One sign of age is its lack of PDAF ability; a significant liability in a "live-view only" camera these days.

Note also the far higher price (around US$10,000) indicated for Fujifilm's forthcoming model, which will be the first "medium format" EVF camera using an "up to date" sensor, Sony's 100MP 44x33. That price is significantly more that the previous flagship of the GFX system, the 50R; such a price increase is a bit unusual for a new model in the same format.

So, my slightly skeptical thoughts:

• Sony has paid off the fixed costs (R&D, production line setup etc.) on that 50MP sensor, and so is now selling it at close to unit production cost as it approaches end-of-life.
  
• Fujifilm [and to some extent Hasselblad] are using those "discounted" sensors and also selling their new EVF bodies at low margins (or even at a loss) to build market share and undermine competitors (Phase One in particular). Remember that Sony lost money on DSLRs for some years; it is a rather common strategy for market insurgents.
  
• US$10,000 might be a better indication of future pricing for a 44x33 camera with an up-to-date sensor that has a clear resolution advantage over smaller formats; maybe down to US$8,000 for an entry-level model like a future "GFX 100R".

This would still be a big step forward for affordable and flexible systems in a format larger than 36x24, giving them a chance to be far more widely used than MF DSLRs, but for context, high resolution EVF cameras in 36x24mm are looking to cost around US$3,000–4,000 and with lower resolution entry-level 36x24 models at around US$2,000.