Pages: 1 ... 44 45 [46] 47 48 ... 65   Go Down

Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 20914 times)

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3464
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #900 on: April 07, 2021, 09:35:50 pm »

46 cases dubiously connected to a bar and one hospitalization!? What's the big deal? That seems like a more pleasurable way to get Covid mmunity. The more people infected, the better.

Sure, but if you string enough of these non-events together, you end up with 571,000+ deaths in a little over a year (from Worldometer).

Amazing how we keep having this same conversation, isn't it?
Logged
--
Robert

degrub

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1574
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #901 on: April 07, 2021, 10:47:28 pm »

This thread has become insane.
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 17591
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #902 on: April 08, 2021, 05:29:59 am »

Science:

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2524
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #903 on: April 08, 2021, 05:58:02 am »

Science:

I'm not sure what is the relevance to science?
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 17591
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #904 on: April 08, 2021, 07:27:32 am »

I'm not sure what is the relevance to science?

Well... There is science and then there is science. The science Alan and I are talking about is a filtered science, the one that reaches us common folks, via media. Our friend here, TechTalk, will often provide the right definition for the true science (the non-filtered one), which is of course correct.

But none of us here are true scientists (with possibly a few exceptions). We all have access only to the filtered version, where we are told that's what experts say. That's where the natural path of developing knowledge appears often as flip-flopping, and causes distrust for science (or "science").

But that is not the real problem. The real problem is that the science is first transformed into the filtered version of itself, then into mandated science (like ridiculous mask rules, as described in the meme above).

Then, based on the mandated science (note that the authorities always justify their mandated rules as based on science, hence my shortening into "mandated science") we start snitching on neighbors, shaming, attacking or even killing curfew or mandate breakers, are prohibited from leaving our homes, arrested, sent to jail, etc.

So, yes, the perception of the real science gets distorted by the filtered and mandated ones by the time it reaches a Joe Blow. And the real science becomes guilty by association.

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4790
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #905 on: April 08, 2021, 07:45:16 am »

Well... There is science and then there is science. The science Alan and I are talking about is a filtered science, the one that reaches us common folks, via media. Our friend here, TechTalk, will often provide the right definition for the true science (the non-filtered one), which is of course correct.

But none of us here are true scientists (with possibly a few exceptions). We all have access only to the filtered version, where we are told that's what experts say. That's where the natural path of developing knowledge appears often as flip-flopping, and causes distrust for science (or "science").

But that is not the real problem. The real problem is that the science is first transformed into the filtered version of itself, then into mandated science (like ridiculous mask rules, as described in the meme above).

Then, based on the mandated science (note that the authorities always justify their mandated rules as based on science, hence my shortening into "mandated science") we start snitching on neighbors, shaming, attacking or even killing curfew or mandate breakers, are prohibited from leaving our homes, arrested, sent to jail, etc.

So, yes, the perception of the real science gets distorted by the filtered and mandated ones by the time it reaches a Joe Blow. And the real science becomes guilty by association.

Which science do you have access to?

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2524
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #906 on: April 08, 2021, 07:46:36 am »


Then, based on the mandated science (note that the authorities always justify their mandated rules as based on science, hence my shortening into "mandated science") we start snitching on neighbors, shaming, attacking or even killing curfew or mandate breakers, are prohibited from leaving our homes, arrested, sent to jail, etc.

So, yes, the perception of the real science gets distorted by the filtered and mandated ones by the time it reaches a Joe Blow. And the real science becomes guilty by association.

Here the politicians use "science" as an excuse for ducking decisions - "we're following the science" they say, cherry-picking the bits of science that suit them
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 17591
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #907 on: April 08, 2021, 08:09:41 am »

... The hard part for many people to understand is that this virus expands exponentially amongst the population if it is not checked.


I sincerely doubt that. I have data for Serbia (mostly because I can't open Facebook or IG without being bombarded by the numbers). In more than a year, only about 7-8% of the population has been confirmed positive (not necessarily sick or even noticing). Hardly exponential. You may want to double or triple that number by people who, like myself, were infected but never went to a doctor, thus not part of any stats. It still wouldn't be exponential.

Fatalities are less than 1% of the officially positive (meaning a half or a third of a percent of the infected, if you expand the numbers as per above). Again, hardly exponential.

I can hear you arguing that it is because it is mitigated by lockdown measures. While we did have even a curfew in April last year, our measures are ever since so relaxed that many foreigners are fleeing their native countries, from Europe, the US, and the rest of the world, and flocking to Serbia precisely because they can breathe freely here (pardon the perhaps inadequate metaphor - masks are still required inside).

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 17591
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #908 on: April 08, 2021, 08:30:06 am »

One way to make lockdowns truly effective:

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13388
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #909 on: April 08, 2021, 08:47:27 am »

Well... There is science and then there is science. The science Alan and I are talking about is a filtered science, the one that reaches us common folks, via media. Our friend here, TechTalk, will often provide the right definition for the true science (the non-filtered one), which is of course correct.

But none of us here are true scientists (with possibly a few exceptions). We all have access only to the filtered version, where we are told that's what experts say. That's where the natural path of developing knowledge appears often as flip-flopping, and causes distrust for science (or "science").

But that is not the real problem. The real problem is that the science is first transformed into the filtered version of itself, then into mandated science (like ridiculous mask rules, as described in the meme above).

Then, based on the mandated science (note that the authorities always justify their mandated rules as based on science, hence my shortening into "mandated science") we start snitching on neighbors, shaming, attacking or even killing curfew or mandate breakers, are prohibited from leaving our homes, arrested, sent to jail, etc.

So, yes, the perception of the real science gets distorted by the filtered and mandated ones by the time it reaches a Joe Blow. And the real science becomes guilty by association.

It's worse than that.  Even real science is wrong often.  The original reports that Type A blood was worse than Type O were based on studies.  "Real" science.  If you ignored the media interpretation and only read the 'real" science studies, you would have had the same impression.  Type A is bad.  It was only recent studies that reversed the original studies.  Heck, the latest studies could be reversed again.  Who knows?

The fact is science is often wrong or concepts change dramatically with time.  Meanwhile, the poor ignorant schnook, who's out of work and trying to stay well and feed his family, gets bounced from pillar to post with government edicts influenced by incomplete science and tinged with political influence.  No wonder so many ignore or have contempt for the rules.

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4790
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #910 on: April 08, 2021, 08:52:28 am »

It's worse than that.  Even real science is wrong often.  The original reports that Type A blood was worse than Type O were based on studies.  "Real" science.  If you ignored the media interpretation and only read the 'real" science studies, you would have had the same impression.  Type A is bad.  It was only recent studies that reversed the original studies.  Heck, the latest studies could be reversed again.  Who knows?

The fact is science is often wrong or concepts change dramatically with time.  Meanwhile, the poor ignorant schnook, who's out of work and trying to stay well and feed his family, gets bounced from pillar to post with government edicts influenced by incomplete science and tinged with political influence.  No wonder so many ignore or have contempt for the rules.

Do you consider yourself a "poor ignorant schnook". If not, what makes you special?

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4775
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #911 on: April 08, 2021, 09:00:26 am »

Can I buy you a drink?

Here's an interesting initial report of what happened after a bar reopened in a rural county in the U.S. state of Illinois.

I suspect we're going to see many more events like this until the vaccination effort reaches a much larger proportion of the population than it has so far.

I was sitting at a bar on Easter having a drink.  Plan on doing it again this weekend regardless of all the panic porn the media just cant seem to let go of. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4646
    • advantica blog
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #912 on: April 08, 2021, 09:06:04 am »

I was sitting at a bar on Easter having a drink.  Plan on doing it again this weekend regardless of all the panic porn the media just cant seem to let go of.

I was watching youtube videos about electric cars on Easter in my home. Plan to do it again this weekend.
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3464
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #913 on: April 08, 2021, 09:07:16 am »

It's worse than that.  Even real science is wrong often.  The original reports that Type A blood was worse than Type O were based on studies.  "Real" science.  If you ignored the media interpretation and only read the 'real" science studies, you would have had the same impression.  Type A is bad.  It was only recent studies that reversed the original studies.  Heck, the latest studies could be reversed again.  Who knows?

The fact is science is often wrong or concepts change dramatically with time.  Meanwhile, the poor ignorant schnook, who's out of work and trying to stay well and feed his family, gets bounced from pillar to post with government edicts influenced by incomplete science and tinged with political influence.  No wonder so many ignore or have contempt for the rules.

Oh not again. Those were preliminary findings that suggested further study. Nothing final, nothing actionable. Poor ignorant schnooks should not be inferring anything from layman's articles about preliminary studies on topics that they don't understand. Why would you, it makes no sense.

Your second paragraph is yet one more repetition of the usual nonsense, which implies that you did not even attempt to understand anything that was said yesterday (and on previous occasions).


Logged
--
Robert

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4775
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #914 on: April 08, 2021, 09:16:54 am »

I was watching youtube videos about electric cars on Easter in my home. Plan to do it again this weekend.

Actually, I was thinking about going to a Rangers game this weekend.  Sunday tickets are just $10 right now. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13388
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #915 on: April 08, 2021, 09:30:38 am »

Oh not again. Those were preliminary findings that suggested further study. Nothing final, nothing actionable. Poor ignorant schnooks should not be inferring anything from layman's articles about preliminary studies on topics that they don't understand. Why would you, it makes no sense.

Your second paragraph is yet one more repetition of the usual nonsense, which implies that you did not even attempt to understand anything that was said yesterday (and on previous occasions).



Then why release them and confuse the public? It's click porn. https://www.hematology.org/newsroom/press-releases/2020/possible-link-between-blood-type-and-covid-19 How does Joe Blow decipher what's "real", "fake", and "maybe"?

I'll ignore your second paragraph which "is yet one more repetition of the usual nonsense, which implies that you did not even attempt to understand anything that was said yesterday (and on previous occasions)."

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2524
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #916 on: April 08, 2021, 09:37:18 am »

Then why release them and confuse the public? It's click porn. https://www.hematology.org/newsroom/press-releases/2020/possible-link-between-blood-type-and-covid-19 How does Joe Blow decipher what's "real", "fake", and "maybe"?

It's work communicated in a scientific journal - some people spotted a connection and did some work to see if it was real.  They communicate it so that other researchers can see what they did and expand on it, or use the ideas for some other study.  They aren't published so some hypochondriac in a cellar in New Jersey can pretend he knows what's going on.

Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4775
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #917 on: April 08, 2021, 10:07:49 am »

Well... There is science and then there is science. The science Alan and I are talking about is a filtered science, the one that reaches us common folks, via media. Our friend here, TechTalk, will often provide the right definition for the true science (the non-filtered one), which is of course correct.

But none of us here are true scientists (with possibly a few exceptions). We all have access only to the filtered version, where we are told that's what experts say. That's where the natural path of developing knowledge appears often as flip-flopping, and causes distrust for science (or "science").

But that is not the real problem. The real problem is that the science is first transformed into the filtered version of itself, then into mandated science (like ridiculous mask rules, as described in the meme above).

Then, based on the mandated science (note that the authorities always justify their mandated rules as based on science, hence my shortening into "mandated science") we start snitching on neighbors, shaming, attacking or even killing curfew or mandate breakers, are prohibited from leaving our homes, arrested, sent to jail, etc.

So, yes, the perception of the real science gets distorted by the filtered and mandated ones by the time it reaches a Joe Blow. And the real science becomes guilty by association.

Actually, I take a much more sinister view.  Real science tends to be very slow moving and results usually show that there is a broad range of possibilities.  For example, how effective are masks?  Well the Lancet put out a report about a year ago that said masks could help stop the spread somewhere between 6% to 80%.  6% would do essentially nothing whereas 80% would stop the pandemic practically over night.  However, this range is almost never mentioned. 

Instead those with a political agenda pick the end that would help them the most.  For those whom are pro-mask, they say science shows masks could help stop the spread by as much as 80%.  Although this is technically true (and a trick TT often falls for), it is highly deceptive since they are not stating the lower end of the spectrum.  They of course realize they are doing this but care more about there politics then actually broadcasting the science. 

So, a year later, after the science has been purposely distorted repeatable, the public believes that if only everyone had worn masks we would never have had this pandemic while ignoring the fact that 90+% of the country was indeed wearing masks (and the less then 10% that was not is too small of a percentage to matter). 

Another great example is the claim that 1 in 5 college women are sexually assaulted.  This came from an Internet volunteer only survey being advertised on websites that dealt with sexual assault.  So the survey incorporated both a selection bias (by only advertising to women who already had enough of an interest in sexual assault to search out information) and a participation bias (by being a non-paid survey which only those interested in the subject will participate in).  So this survey was by no mean accurate, and knowingly designed that.  The researchers, one of whom was a woman, were trying to gin up interest on sexual assault on campus so they could get enough grants/donations to perform an actual non-biased study.  They stated this publicly along with that this result should not be taken as true.  However the HRC campaign latched onto this and now many actually think 20% of college women are sexually assaulted even though that percentage is a good deal higher then the worst countries in the world for sexual assault, making it obviously absurd. 

The politics of climate change does this all the time too.  We often here that we are detecting so many more hurricanes then what we use to in the years past, so that is proof of how serious climate change is.  What they never point out though is that most hurricanes drift out into the Bermuda Triangle somewhere before dying out, and, before the advent of weather satellites, they would have largely never had been noticed, let alone recorded, in the past.  Furthermore, the number of hurricanes that make landfall have been remarkably consistent over the last century.  So actually, although the statement that we are detecting more is technically true, the implication that it is because we are having more hurricanes is actually false. 

So, in my view, whnever you hear a politician (aka anyone in government) saying "the science shows," they are probably distorting the science purposely for political reasons. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4790
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #918 on: April 08, 2021, 10:13:42 am »

How does Joe Blow decipher what's "real", "fake", and "maybe"?

Same way you do.

Most everyone I know knows that science is a work in process and so are not confused or distrustful of science when scientists discover that what they thought was true isn't, and now they have a better explanation.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 10:19:03 am by faberryman »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13388
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #919 on: April 08, 2021, 10:16:45 am »

Same way you do. Most everyone I know knows that science is a work in process and so are not confused or trustful of science when scientists discover that what they thought was true isn't, and now they have a better explanation.
But why should a guy give up his livelihood and jeopardized his family for a year based on science that's a work in progress? You're asking too much from people.
Pages: 1 ... 44 45 [46] 47 48 ... 65   Go Up