Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine

[Alan Klein]

Do you consider yourself a member of "the public" who has lost "confidence in the so-called "expert's" knowledge of what to do to stay safe." Have you gotten to the point where you just "ignore the expert's advice and move on." Or are you just talking about what other people believe and do? On what basis have you determined what other people believe and do?

I must be hanging around with the wrong people because I don't know of anyone who has lost confidence in the so-called "expert's" knowledge of what to do to stay safe, nor do I know of anyone who just ignores the expert's advice and moves on. Except maybe Joe and Slobodan.

We all get bombarded with news reports, expert advice as well as what our friends and family tell us.  I was speaking with a friend who's in Florida for a couple of months on vacation.  He's old like me and has the shots.  He and his wife go to restaurants down there.  They decided to take a chance.  My wife and I, who also have had the shots, aren't ready for that yet. Joe and Slobodan made their decisions that are different.

So people determine risks differently even as we're all exposed to the same experts.  Just as photography threads have opinions on all sorts of things that differ despite "expert" opinions about everything.  Well, Covid is similar.  People believe differently and so-called expert opinions are not the same.  People think Nikon's the greatest.  Others say Canon.  I've never gone to a horse race where there weren't bets on every horse.

Drawing moral conclusions based on actions when people assess risk differently and interpret odds differently as well is unfair and frankly mean.  No one wants to hurt his neighbor.  But we all have needs to care for ourselves and our families.  We have to consider other things.  Covid is about health and the economy.  You can't separate one from the other.  Danger comes from both sides of the equation.  Since there is no simple solution, we have to deal with tradeoffs.  That's all I've been suggesting.

[TechTalk]

Articles like the one I linked to written by AARP (American Association for Retired People) with 38 million members are written for the layman. How can anyone ignore their statements? How does the public know which statements they should listen to and which to ignore? 

By not assuming a conclusion where no conclusion exists. By understanding that research that finds a correlation is not the same as finding a causation; it only suggests the need for further investigation and more evidence. In other words, it requires only a very basic and fundamental scientific literacy to understand what science is and what it is not. It also helps to read within context what is actually written including the caveats and the reasons given for the caveats as opposed to jumping to conclusions.

[Alan Klein]

By not assuming a conclusion where no conclusion exists. By understanding that research that finds a correlation is not the same as finding a causation; it only suggests the need for further investigation and more evidence. In other words, it requires only a very basic and fundamental scientific literacy to understand what science is and what it is not. It also helps to read within context what is actually written including the caveats and the reasons given for the caveats as opposed to jumping to conclusions.

You're expecting too much from the general public. They're not English majors.  You want them to read between the lines. Most people don't have time to read articles.  They usually stop at the headlines or what the newscaster says on TV.  How many photographers follow LuLa or other forums.  They're out shooting pictures unlike us.    Even if they read photo forums, how much diverse opinion is there?  How many threads have you read where some poor new shooter posts a simple question and is bombarded with 16 theories about it and thirty-five answers, none of which match? 

[Robert Roaldi]

Articles like the one I linked to written by AARP (American Association for Retired People) with 38 million members are written for the layman.  Similar articles in media and on cable and broadcast TV made similar representations about covid and blood type.  How can anyone ignore their statements? How does the public know which statements they should listen to and which to ignore? 

You read an article in a layman's journal about a possible avenue of research that's being investigated, and it's FAR from final, and when later things turn out a bit differently than some people anticipated, you call that "experts" lying to you?  Are you kidding me?

Why are you looking for medical advice in a layman's journal based on preliminary research? It was simple reporting about something ongoing, that's all. There are probably 1000 articles like that every month about some ongoing research somewhere.

The only thing that would be surprising is that if speculation, even educated speculation, at the start of a research project turned out to be 100% correct. That would be a first, maybe.

[TechTalk]

No, but it is adopted by the woke as the new religion, because, apparently, humanity can not survive without some form of religion.

Science always looks like a false religion to those that would rather curse, condemn, or ignore evidence from it that conflicts with their predetermined views. Ask Galileo.

[Alan Klein]

You read an article in a layman's journal about a possible avenue of research that's being investigated, and it's FAR from final, and when later things turn out a bit differently than some people anticipated, you call that "experts" lying to you?  Are you kidding me?

Why are you looking for medical advice in a layman's journal based on preliminary research? It was simple reporting about something ongoing, that's all. There are probably 1000 articles like that every month about some ongoing research somewhere.

The only thing that would be surprising is that if speculation, even educated speculation, at the start of a research project turned out to be 100% correct. That would be a first, maybe.

Would you prefer I listen to Trump?  How about Biden? 

[TechTalk]

You want them to read between the lines.

That is the exact opposite of what I suggested.

[Alan Klein]

Science always looks like a false religion to those that would rather curse, condemn, or ignore evidence from it that conflicts with their predetermined views. Ask Galileo.

But Galileo was wrong as well. You see religion is about the Truth.  It doesn't change.  Science is not the Truth because our knowledge of it does change. So putting your faith in science will disappoint you.  You might get Covid. 

[Robert Roaldi]

You're expecting too much from the general public. They're not English majors.  You want them to read between the lines. Most people don't have time to read articles.  They usually stop at the headlines or what the newscaster says on TV.  How many photographers follow LuLa or other forums.  They're out shooting pictures unlike us.    Even if they read photo forums, how much diverse opinion is there?  How many threads have you read where some poor new shooter posts a simple question and is bombarded with 16 theories about it and thirty-five answers, none of which match?

This must the 20th time we've travelled down this road and we always end up at the same place. You read something you don't understand, and then later complain that you didn't understand it and so therefore someone was lying to you, and it always turns out to be someone that you decided was not going to tell you the truth anyway because, well,  they're experts.

Nobody in any of those articles EVER told you what to do. They were simply reports of ongoing research, no actionable information. What is so difficult to understand about that?

[faberryman]

Articles like the one I linked to written by AARP (American Association for Retired People) with 38 million members are written for the layman.  Similar articles in media and on cable and broadcast TV made similar representations about covid and blood type.  How can anyone ignore their statements?

Please tell me you are not taking medical advice from articles you read in the AARP magazine. I drop my copy off in the recycle bin on the way from the mailbox to my house.

[TechTalk]

Would you prefer I listen to Trump?  How about Biden? 

It would be helpful to this thread if you quit repeatedly bringing either up and discuss what the actual thread subject title is instead.

[Robert Roaldi]

Would you prefer I listen to Trump?  How about Biden? 

WTF do Trump and Biden have to do with anything?

Wash your hands, stay away from people, get vaccinated, wear a mask in public.

You can whine all your want, there's no magic bullet, there's no antidote. Don't worry, if one turns up, we'll all know soon enough.

[faberryman]

You see religion is about the Truth.  It doesn't change.

Did you read that in your AARP magazine or is that what one of the experts down at your place of worship told you?

[Robert Roaldi]

Robert, the science religious fanatic, thinks that science is always right. Never mind that scientists flip-flop worse than John Kerry.

Thanks, that was helpful.

[TechTalk]

So putting your faith in science will disappoint you.

Science has nothing to do with faith. Understanding that would go a long way toward your first steps in understanding science.

[Alan Klein]

Please tell me you are not taking medical advice from articles you read in the AARP magazine. I drop my copy off in the recycle bin on the way from the mailbox to my house.

I do the same Frank.  I just was looking for an article with Google and found the AARP one. With its millions of readers, I thought it would make a pertinent point.  In any case, how do you get medical advice about Covid?

[Alan Klein]

WTF do Trump and Biden have to do with anything?

Wash your hands, stay away from people, get vaccinated, wear a mask in public.

You can whine all your want, there's no magic bullet, there's no antidote. Don't worry, if one turns up, we'll all know soon enough.

That's not the advice.  Once you get vaccinated, you don't have to stay away from people.  Haven't you read the new CDC guidelines? You're not keeping up. 

[TechTalk]

Baloney.

[Robert Roaldi]

... In any case, how do you get medical advice about Covid?

Are you kidding or what?

Your doctor, your public health office, CDC, Mayo Clinic web site, those would be good starts.

[Robert Roaldi]

That's not the advice.  Once you get vaccinated, you don't have to stay away from people.  Haven't you read the new CDC guidelines? You're not keeping up.

Well in that case, in the future I'll come to you for medical advice, since you seem to be on top of things.