Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Robert Roaldi]

So now Ted Cruz is picking up on Tucker "false flag" explanation for the Jan 6th demonstration/riot/insurrection/trespass/etc., https://www.thedailybeast.com/jan-6-committee-knocks-down-bonkers-conspiracy-pushed-by-tucker-carlson-and-ted-cruz. That must be one cushy job he's got if he's willing to debase himself this much to keep it. But that only works so long as the electors buy the underlying lie. What if they wake up?

[digitaldog]

or even suggesting that until now.

Again, in other words:

[Alan Klein]

You're blaming the crimes on the police's inability to prevent the crime. I don't remember you taking this position at the time of the BLM demonstrations but maybe you've revised your position on this, nothing wrong with that. But you must see the dilemma here. I mean, it's an unorthodox position to take. If my car is stolen, is it my fault because I own a car that people want to steal?

On another subject, you have stated a couple of times now that you don't think the last Presidential election was rigged. Fair enough. So what do you think of Trump et al.'s reaction to Senator Mike Rounds on-air statement that he thought the elections were fair and that Trump lost. He's getting some Republican support but Trump lost his mind over it (not a long trip, admittedly). I find Trump's reaction disingenuous because I don't think that he really believes that the election was unfair, but now that he's started the con, he has to see it through. Is this a responsible position for a public figure to take? Do you think he has the country's best interests in mind?

In NYC, the new District Attorney is decriminalizing many crimes that are still crimes on the books.  So civilians are now being put in unwanted positions and the additional risk of being victims of crime.  The new mayor, a black man like the DA, is in an uproar as is the NYPD and many responsible leaders including liberals. They correctly state this is going to cause a dramatic increase in crime.  Likewise, police were held back by silly politicians during the BLM riots adding to the mayhem. They just ignored that crimes were being committed and let them happen.

The Jan 6th riot was similar because there weren't enough cops to keep order.  Whether it was incompetence as appears on the surface, or more sinister and political, still hasn't been determined in my opinion.  There's no incentive for a Democratically controlled Congress to investigate this end as they're using it to attack republicans to cover up Biden's incompetency.  We may have to wait for Republicans to take over in November to get a more in-depth investigation, although I doubt the Republicans would want to open that can of worms either.

Regarding Trump, I wish he would just shut up and go away.  He's just causing more trouble for Republicans. He reminds me of Hillary after she lost, another victim and complainer. The two make a nice pair.

[Alan Klein]

So now Ted Cruz is picking up on Tucker "false flag" explanation for the Jan 6th demonstration/riot/insurrection/trespass/etc., https://www.thedailybeast.com/jan-6-committee-knocks-down-bonkers-conspiracy-pushed-by-tucker-carlson-and-ted-cruz. That must be one cushy job he's got if he's willing to debase himself this much to keep it. But that only works so long as the electors buy the underlying lie. What if they wake up?

They both must have read my posts. 

[Robert Roaldi]

... The new mayor, a black man like the DA, is in an uproar ...

Is that relevant?

[Robert Roaldi]

In NYC, the new District Attorney is decriminalizing many crimes that are still crimes on the books.  ...

Maybe some crimes should be removed from the books.

[digitaldog]

Is that relevant?

The question should be: Is this yet another racial dog whistle of his?
The answer for me is rather clear based on the posting history here. Even when recently, his direct racial dog whistles and more have been hidden to save my sanity.

[TechTalk]

And to think that my parents drilled into my head that I was responsible for my behavior and actions and no one else. Little did I ever think that I could use the excuse that no one prevented me, so it isn't my fault.

[Alan Klein]

Is that relevant?

Yes.   The DA, a black man, ran on decriminalizing many crimes to get votes from the black community.  Previous mayors went after concealed weapons and most perpetrators were black.  The black Mayor, a retired police Captain, is opposed to this.  So it become a political an race issue being argued by two black and different politicians. 

An example of crimes the new DA won't go after is if you are carrying a concealed gun, a major crime in NYC for decades allowing one year in jail,, the new DA will not prosecute as long as you're not committing another crime at the same time.  This will encourage many to carry guns making it unsafe for everyone.  Even if you di commit the crime, unless the perp intended to use the weapon, he won't be charged.  Now that's just stupid.  If NYC gets a reputation like some other cities that crimes going up, visitors won't visit.  That could kill our economy besides killing people.

[Robert Roaldi]

Yes.   The DA, a black man, ran on decriminalizing many crimes to get votes from the black community.  Previous mayors went after concealed weapons and most perpetrators were black.  The black Mayor, a retired police Captain, is opposed to this.  So it become a political an race issue being argued by two black and different politicians. 

An example of crimes the new DA won't go after is if you are carrying a concealed gun, a major crime in NYC for decades allowing one year in jail,, the new DA will not prosecute as long as you're not committing another crime at the same time.  This will encourage many to carry guns making it unsafe for everyone.  Even if you di commit the crime, unless the perp intended to use the weapon, he won't be charged.  Now that's just stupid.  If NYC gets a reputation like some other cities that crimes going up, visitors won't visit.  That could kill our economy besides killing people.

As a 2nd amendment guy, I'm surprised this bothers you. I thought people have a right to protect themselves and their families.

[Alan Klein]

As a 2nd amendment guy, I'm surprised this bothers you. I thought people have a right to protect themselves and their families.

You raise a good point.  Is carrying a concealed weapon allowed under the second amendment or should it?  I think you should ask Andrew because I believe they allow it where he lives in Santa Fe, New Mexico. I'm from NYC and only carried a switchblade when I was a kid.    He's the one who lives in the Wild West.

[PeterAit]

The Jan 6th riot was similar because there weren't enough cops to keep order. 

Seriously? You are saying this seriously? Alan you are sinking even lower in the thinking category.

By your logic - a young woman goes for a walk WITHOUT a gun and armed guard, and is attacked and raped. But it is HER FAULT because she did not take a gun and a guard. The rapist is blameless. Do you really want to say something so abysmally vile and stupid?

[Alan Klein]

Seriously? You are saying this seriously? Alan you are sinking even lower in the thinking category.

By your logic - a young woman goes for a walk WITHOUT a gun and armed guard, and is attacked and raped. But it is HER FAULT because she did not take a gun and a guard. The rapist is blameless. Do you really want to say something so abysmally vile and stupid?

I never said that. My point was that demonstrators often devolve into a mob if there are not enough police around to control the situation.  I never approved rioting for either BLM or Jan 6th demonstrations. The rioting was criminal activity in both cases.

[digitaldog]

Seriously? You are saying this seriously? Alan you are sinking even lower in the thinking category.

He is serious about it, virtually no one is taking him seriously because in part, his opinions lack logic.
Why ask him? Nonsense will follow.

[James Clark]

You can define it however you want.  But the facts are that the Justice Department has not charged anyone with insurrection.   It was a riot. If it was an insurrection, you can be sure that Attorney General Garland and the Demcoratic Biden-controlled DOJ would have charged it.  If they did, the Federal judges would throw them out of court accusing them of overcharging.  The DOJ would be laughed at and then Democrats would also be embarrassed to use the word.  This way Democrats can continue to use that politically-charged word without penalty.

You were saying?

Leader of Oath Keepers militia (and a few others) charged with seditious conspiracy in U.S. Capitol riot

The crime is defined as attempting "to overthrow, put down or to destroy by force the government of the United States."

[TechTalk]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/Seditious conspiracy

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy:

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sedition

sedition: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority

"U.S. prosecutors on Thursday charged Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the far-right Oath Keepers militia, and 10 other people with seditious conspiracy for their role in the deadly Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol."

[Peter McLennan]

"they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both"

Those gentlemen are lucky that this is 2022 and not 1952.  I'll bet the penalty was slightly more final in those days.

Meanwhile, from our usually instantaneously-responding keyboard kowboy: crickets.

And, to quote the 70s band Chicago: "Only the Beginning"

[Alan Klein]

You were saying?

Leader of Oath Keepers militia (and a few others) charged with seditious conspiracy in U.S. Capitol riot

That's like saying that the BLM demonstrators and protestors were rioters and looters because some actually did that.  If ten demonstrators on Jan 6th conspired as they are being charged, then they should go to jail.  But that doesn't mean the other 1000 people had the same plans or even knew about it.  If they did, they would be charged too.   

As an aside, the case has to be proved.  If they didn't have arms there, it would be hard to overthrow anything.  The fact is everyone left before violence broke out other than scuffles and the shooting of the woman protestor by the police.  No one set up barriers and started shooting except the police. Just because someone calls for an overthrow, it isn't seditious.  Lots of people say we should do away with the US government even by force although you're stupid to say such things and expect no trouble.  In any case, most of it is just hot air.   It may be an overcharge, maybe not.  It's certainly political because Attorney General Garland would like to get Trump for denying him his seat on the Supreme Court.   We'll see soon.  The Democrats better be careful and not overplay their hand like getting rid of the filibuster.  What goes around comes around.

[TechTalk]

The point is that there is no point in responding to someone that is unwilling to understand what they do not wish to understand. It falls on deaf ears and simply provides them with attention—which was the whole point from the beginning.

[TechTalk]

Those gentlemen are lucky that this is 2022 and not 1952.  I'll bet the penalty was slightly more final in those days.

Meanwhile, from our usually instantaneously-responding keyboard kowboy: crickets.

And, to quote the 70s band Chicago: "Only the Beginning"

Charges can be stacked and sentences ordered to run consecutively. So, there could be some rather lengthy prison terms.

* and Chicago was a great band live...

https://www.youtube.com/Chicago Live at Tanglewood - Beginnings