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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 559784 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12740 on: December 18, 2021, 01:36:24 pm »

Well follow your own advice.  Don't listen to me.  I always get stocks wrong.  My wife's better at it.  ::)

Sometimes I listen to what you say, but I listen also to many others. And then I make my own decisions.
I also give a lot of credence to your last two sentences.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12741 on: December 19, 2021, 10:05:10 am »

Democrat Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia throws his hat into the ring with this challenge to Biden and the rest of the democrats.  (Well, he's been doing that a while now.)  He'll run against Biden in 2024 for the  Democratic nomination if Biden even runs again.  He'll push VP Kamala Harris aside as a nobody.

Anyway, that's my prediction.  He'll be the only Democrat fighting against inflation and too much government spending and economic downturn which will be a key issue next year in the midterms.  So he's going to establish his bonafide over the next couple of years as the real leader of the Democratic party.  I think he'll be a formidable contender considering he's a southerner, a good ole boy, and will get back the democrats there and many of the middle-class Republicans in addition to the regular blue states.   

Manchin says he won’t support Biden’s social spending bill
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/19/manchin-says-he-wont-support-bidens-social-spending-bill-525458

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12742 on: December 19, 2021, 10:11:01 am »

Another hilarious/pathetic video clip, this time about a TV preacher who discovers a Covid cure, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYmvV3ItuVM . This almost belongs in the humour thread. The overall clip is a political commentary by the guy who runs the channel, I didn't listen to much of that, but he shows an embedded clip starting at the 25 second mark of the preacher in question.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12743 on: December 19, 2021, 10:24:02 am »

Another hilarious/pathetic video clip, this time about a TV preacher who discovers a Covid cure, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYmvV3ItuVM . This almost belongs in the humour thread. The overall clip is a political commentary by the guy who runs the channel, I didn't listen to much of that, but he shows an embedded clip starting at the 25 second mark of the preacher in question.

The question is why Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are not protesting about this kind of tax evasion.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12744 on: December 19, 2021, 03:55:56 pm »

Here's an interesting article about intellectual property theft, zealotry and blunt legal instruments of questionable efficacy, https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/china-initiative-intellectual-property-theft/621058/.

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Robert

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12745 on: December 19, 2021, 06:56:55 pm »

I've copied and pasted these quotes from the Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine thread. The vaccine thread is continually being hijacked for individual political agendas, so I prefer to copy and paste those here where they belong.

We get many deliberate lies and misinformation also from Biden. I wish he stopped that.

"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."-Bertrand Russell
Same with lies.
You can petition the White House, I'm petitioning LuLa owners.
FWIW, I'm not aware of any lies from Biden that unlike some before him in the White House, lead to thousands or more deaths from Covid-19 lies.

You see Andrew, Biden offended Elon Musk and Tesla by cheerleading efforts by GM to produce electric vehicles and with a proposal to give an extra cash incentive to electric vehicles produced by union labor. Therefore, Les is going to go after Biden, Elizabeth Warren, or anyone else that offends Elon Musk or Tesla over and over and over as often as he thinks he can insert it into any discussion. It's pretty simple and you will see it happen time after time.

We'll just have to try and understand the obsession with it, because based on what I've recently discovered and seen online regarding Tesla super fans and the way that they go after anyone seen as an offender with online and social media commentary, it never ends.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12746 on: December 19, 2021, 07:00:35 pm »

Here's an interesting article about intellectual property theft, zealotry and blunt legal instruments of questionable efficacy, https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/china-initiative-intellectual-property-theft/621058/.


Another interesting problem China has I heard a couple of years ago is that their stealing and manufacturing current designs,  they're one step behind the next advancement. These will be developed in foreign countries. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12747 on: December 19, 2021, 07:05:25 pm »

I've copied and pasted these quotes from the Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine thread. The vaccine thread is continually being hijacked for individual political agendas, so I prefer to copy and paste those here where they belong.

You see Andrew, Biden offended Elon Musk and Tesla by cheerleading efforts by GM to produce electric vehicles and with a proposal to give an extra cash incentive to electric vehicles produced by union labor. Therefore, Les is going to go after Biden, Elizabeth Warren, or anyone else that offends Elon Musk or Tesla over and over and over as often as he thinks he can insert it into any discussion. It's pretty simple and you will see it happen time after time.

We'll just have to try and understand the obsession with it, because based on what I've recently discovered and seen online regarding Tesla super fans and the way that they go after anyone seen as an offender with online and social media commentary, it never ends.
So you don't see any problems with you passionately defending Biden's lies?  I guess it depends whose Ox is being gored.

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12748 on: December 19, 2021, 07:13:43 pm »

So you don't see any problems with you passionately defending Biden's lies?  I guess it depends whose Ox is being gored.
“While photographs may not lie, liars may photograph.” -Lewis Hine
And some here can't even accomplish photography very well.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12749 on: December 19, 2021, 07:15:21 pm »

Frankly, I'm not all that passionate about Biden. I think his wife Jill is pretty and has aged well. She's also very intelligent which I find especially attractive.

I am somewhat passionate about countering misinformation when I see it posted.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12750 on: December 19, 2021, 07:29:44 pm »

Again moved from the Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine thread just because I prefer it here rather than there.

Opinions are not a reason to be banned from this site. But personal attacks like you make are and I've complained to the owners about your continuing personal attacks and insults.

I've been the target of your personal attacks, as have others. I never felt a need to complain or respond to anyone except you. In that vein, I recommend that you buy a new mirror.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12751 on: December 19, 2021, 08:03:56 pm »

Again moved from the Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine thread just because I prefer it here rather than there.

I've been the target of your personal attacks, as have others. I never felt a need to complain or respond to anyone except you. In that vein, I recommend that you buy a new mirror.
I believe I've disagreed with many of your opinions and beliefs but not you personally.  Frankly, I think you're a smart and thorough researcher even though we disagree on ideas and interpretations of data.  Of course, if I have made any comments that did insult you in a personal way, then I was wrong and I apologize. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12752 on: December 20, 2021, 09:16:31 am »

Interesting update on rebates, Tesla, and Biden.

It appears that the $2 trillion dollar Build Back Better BBB bill died because Senator Manchin, a Democrat, won't support it.  So future rebates for electric vehicles will die too as there was over $500 billion for sustainability in the bill including EV rebates.  It's going to be interesting to see how that affects the stock prices of Tesla, GM and others EV support corporations here and overseas. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12753 on: December 20, 2021, 09:39:27 am »

Wow.  Manchin believes in free markets. He agrees with me that we can't pick winners and losers. Look what he said below.  This guy is definitely running for President.  His middle-of-the-road politics will work in America because that's what most people want. 

As a side note, this is why Elon Musk is now opposed to rebates.  All these other giveaways in the $500 billion used for EV's benefits would go to union-run automakers, not Tesla.  He's willing to forgo any rebates so the other automakers won't benefit from the bill.  You can see from the article that Toyota and other non-union shops are opposed to the bill too. 

Manchin says no to Build Back Better, killing EV tax credit momentum

EV tax credit
Last month, during a visit to Toyota Motor North America's West Virginia components plant, Manchin slammed the proposed $4,500 federal tax credit for union-made EVs.
"When I heard about this, what they were putting in the bill, I went right to the sponsor [Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich.] and I said, 'This is wrong. This can't happen. It's not who we are as a country. It's not how we built this country, and the product should speak for itself," Manchin told Automotive News at the time. "We shouldn't use everyone's tax dollars to pick winners and losers. If you're a capitalist economy that we are in society then you let the product speak for itself, and hopefully, we'll get that, that'll be corrected."

Toyota has led efforts to kill the union-built EV credit alongside other international manufacturers, including American Honda and Volkswagen Group of America. Republican governors from auto states, and the countries of Canada and Mexico have also criticized the proposal.

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/sen-joe-manchin-says-no-bidens-build-back-better-agenda-killing-momentum-ev-tax

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12754 on: December 20, 2021, 12:31:12 pm »

...

You see Andrew, Biden offended Elon Musk and Tesla by cheerleading efforts by GM to produce electric vehicles and with a proposal to give an extra cash incentive to electric vehicles produced by union labor. Therefore, Les is going to go after Biden, Elizabeth Warren, or anyone else that offends Elon Musk or Tesla over and over and over as often as he thinks he can insert it into any discussion. It's pretty simple and you will see it happen time after time.

We'll just have to try and understand the obsession with it, because based on what I've recently discovered and seen online regarding Tesla super fans and the way that they go after anyone seen as an offender with online and social media commentary, it never ends.

Thank you, I have been a bit confused about some of the recent exchanges. I was not aware of the Tesla/Musk cult.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12755 on: December 20, 2021, 12:34:32 pm »

Wow.  Manchin believes in free markets. He agrees with me that we can't pick winners and losers. Look what he said below.  ...

There is hardly anyone who doesn't believe in markets. When they work. However, there are people who object to trying to use them everywhere.

Your black/white stridence is tiring.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12756 on: December 20, 2021, 12:40:04 pm »

Interesting update on rebates, Tesla, and Biden.

It appears that the $2 trillion dollar Build Back Better BBB bill died because Senator Manchin, a Democrat, won't support it.  So future rebates for electric vehicles will die too as there was over $500 billion for sustainability in the bill including EV rebates.  It's going to be interesting to see how that affects the stock prices of Tesla, GM and others EV support corporations here and overseas.

I don't think it will affect Tesla much since they presently can't fill their orders anyway. Last week, Elon Musk recommended that the EV incentives should be deleted from the proposed bill, so he obviously doesn't them. That decision may affect GM, Ford and Stellantis more, although today's disproportionate drop in GM's share price is probably due more to firing Amman of GM's Cruise division rather than to losing their anticipated EV rebates.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12757 on: December 20, 2021, 01:03:27 pm »

I've copied and pasted these quotes from the Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine thread. The vaccine thread is continually being hijacked for individual political agendas, so I prefer to copy and paste those here where they belong.

You see Andrew, Biden offended Elon Musk and Tesla by cheerleading efforts by GM to produce electric vehicles and with a proposal to give an extra cash incentive to electric vehicles produced by union labor. Therefore, Les is going to go after Biden, Elizabeth Warren, or anyone else that offends Elon Musk or Tesla over and over and over as often as he thinks he can insert it into any discussion. It's pretty simple and you will see it happen time after time.

We'll just have to try and understand the obsession with it, because based on what I've recently discovered and seen online regarding Tesla super fans and the way that they go after anyone seen as an offender with online and social media commentary, it never ends.

As to the Biden's infatuation for Mary Barra or GM, stating that GM is the EV leader, when GM is in reality in the last place in that race is a crude lie. My sympathies and admiration for Tesla are based in facts, rather than your cheerleading for GM due to the lack of knowledge about that company and general state of EVs. Elizabeth Waren lied as well when she overreacted in her rage after Musk was featured by Time magazine as person of the year, accusing falsely Musk from not paying any taxes. Both these events were real, so there is no point of trying to quash or minimize them.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12758 on: December 20, 2021, 01:03:57 pm »

I don't think it will affect Tesla much since they presently can't fill their orders anyway. Last week, Elon Musk recommended that the EV incentives should be deleted from the proposed bill, so he obviously doesn't them. That decision may affect GM, Ford and Stellantis more, although today's disproportionate drop in GM's share price is probably due more to firing Amman of GM's Cruise division rather than to losing their anticipated EV rebates.

From one point of view, that position could be seen as self-serving. Now that Tesla doesn't need them (or can no longer use them), they don't want them in effect for other manufacturers.

Rebates for new technologies for which there is reason to provide public support are always going to be problematic: how long do you keep them around, when do you know they're no longer needed, how do you know they worked, is it unfair that some manufacturers are in a position to take better advantage than others, etc. What can be hidden from public view is the behind the scenes lobbying that put those rebates into effect. You can readily see how an entity could take advantage by lobbying for a temporary rebate for a technology in which they hold a head start. If the process is not transparent, no one really knows. I have no idea how EV rebates were put into effect in the US or for how long they were supposed to last.

Some people don't want government picking winners. But what if Tesla was a Chinese company? In that case, would all those so-called free marketeers want the US government to aid US manufacturers to catch up? Why would that be ok?

If a new company like Tesla could benefit from EV rebates but other manufacturers were slower in adapting to the change, removing rebates too early could be detrimental to them. Would that be fair? They had an existing infrastructure to convert, Tesla did not.

I don't know anything about this, and I can come up with some nuance with just 10 minutes' thought, which means it's probably at least 10 times more complex than I can imagine.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12759 on: December 20, 2021, 01:08:24 pm »

... rather than your cheerleading for GM ...

That's a needlessly loaded statement.
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