Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Robert Roaldi]

But it went from 520,000 to 800,000 under Biden.  So it's increasing under Biden as I said.  Meanwhile Biden shut down various domestic sources.  How does that help?  Maybe next year it will be over a million barrels?  How is that being smart?

If it's cheaper then maybe it is smarter. If you're shown two gasoline pumps, one more expensive that the other and the more expensive one says "Fracked in the USA", which would you buy from?

if you say you would choose to buy the US produced gasoline, then you need to explain why Walmart is full of cheap foreign goods instead of expensive American made clothing.

Anyway, you're analyzing this through one lens, so far as I can tell. Assuming that what you say is true, that Biden did stop fracking and you're not exaggerating, the picture is incomplete unless you also state WHY he did so. If it's to avoid environmental damage, then maybe it makes sense to stop it, or it is ok according to you to frack oil and artificially keep the price low by NOT addressing environmental damage, which is after all very real damage that will need to be PAID FOR by someone at some time. Or do you want to pass on your generation's selfishness onto future generations?

[digitaldog]

There was nothing subtle about his gloating.

You'll love this and no, they are not my words:

09.07.21 3:18 PM ET Florida Councilman Who Mocked Dr. ‘Falsey’ Fauci Is Hospitalized With Severe COVID
The councilman is “wrestling” with the deadly virus after denying its existence.

It exists!

Fred Lowry, a councilman for Florida’s Volusia County and a loud COVID-19 denier, is in the hospital with a severe case of COVID-19, according to the County Chair Jeff Brower. “He is in the hospital wrestling with COVID-19. It’s been about three weeks now,” Brower said on Tuesday as Lowry, 66, missed a county council meeting for the second time.

[TechTalk]

And speaking of polls (the important ones that mean life and death), and those listening to *morons:

Rather than get on a roller coaster manipulated by someone best ignored, I'd rather focus on life and death issues at the moment. There comes a point where dimwits become dangerous to everyone's safety and health—as is the case in Idaho right now.

 As of today, Idaho has activated crisis level care standards for several hospitals in Northern Idaho. What that means is hospitals are authorized to triage patients and ration care based on likelihood of survival. Here's a video explaining what that means which is under two minutes long and this is the chart seen in the video. Here's a news report on the current hospital crisis there.

* Also posted in Coronavirus Vaccine thread for obvious reasons.

[digitaldog]

Indeed, what his happening in hospitals all over the nation is very concerning. People are still suffering heart attacks, car crashes (dog forbid, shootings) not to mention the poor health care providers overwhelmed with Covid-19 patients who didn't have to be in ICU's in the first place.

[TechTalk]

there is a correlation between mask wearing/high vaccination rates and high infection rates. Places that have the highest rates of mask use and vaccination tend to have the highest infection rates.

It is the dissemination and spread of idiotic and dangerous propaganda like this that really makes my blood boil. I try not to let my emotions intrude excessively into what I write, but when people spread absurd crap that can be deadly to those with the inclination to believe it—and there are far too many so inclined—I have to say, it ain't easy.

[Robert Roaldi]

It is the dissemination and spread of idiotic and dangerous propaganda like this that really makes my blood boil. I try not to let my emotions intrude excessively into what I write, but when people spread absurd crap that can be deadly to those with the inclination to believe it—and there are far too many so inclined—I have to say, it ain't easy.

Some statements are so spectacularly stupid that I immediately think they can only come from paid trollers and bad actors.

[TechTalk]

Unfortunately, spectacular stupidity isn't even a requirement. All it takes is a big ideological blind spot to believe and promote obscenely dangerous and ridiculous ideas.

Naturally, it helps if you are spectacularly stupid as an aid in believing the deadly propaganda being spread these days—but, it isn't necessary.

[Peter McLennan]

Unfortunately, spectacular stupidity isn't even a requirement. All it takes is a big ideological blind spot to believe and promote obscenely dangerous and ridiculous ideas...

Or greed.  That works, too.

Some of the trollers found everywhere these days are after more than just attention.  Trump and others have raised millions by peddling crap to idiots. 

[PeterAit]

Indeed, what his happening in hospitals all over the nation is very concerning. People are still suffering heart attacks, car crashes (dog forbid, shootings) not to mention the poor health care providers overwhelmed with Covid-19 patients who didn't have to be in ICU's in the first place.

Willfully unvaccinated covid patients go to the back of the medical care line, always, behind everything from heart attacks to skinned knees. And must pay their own medical bills. Anyone making, selling, or using a fake vaccine card gets a big fine and jail time.

[Robert Roaldi]

Willfully unvaccinated covid patients go to the back of the medical care line, always, behind everything from heart attacks to skinned knees. And must pay their own medical bills. Anyone making, selling, or using a fake vaccine card gets a big fine and jail time.

It might be better to punish the charlatans who led them down that path, but that's not going to happen. It may be more useful to look at this as a system failure and not look to blame scapegoats, as tempting and initially appealing as that sounds.

As outlined in Lewis's book Premonition, the failures of the US health industry in the Covid debacle were legion. They range from simple failures to cooperate because of the usual silos to individual companies' price-gouging of medical supplies to the almost complete failure of governance, in part because of people who don't think that public governance is a thing. (Funny how many people who claim to believe that have no issues with large military budgets.) The screw-up was systematic. Taking it out on some poor saps for having wild-ass stupid opinions won't accomplish much. Someone should pay for all the damage, including the damage to all the people without Covid whose health problems were made worse, but I don't think that's going to happen because the game is rigged. The incentives don't line up properly. No one is going to make a profit by preparing for the next pandemic. At this point, it's not clear to me that enough Americans even think the country did anything wrong so what's the hope of fixing it for next time.

[Alan Klein]

If it's cheaper then maybe it is smarter. If you're shown two gasoline pumps, one more expensive that the other and the more expensive one says "Fracked in the USA", which would you buy from?

if you say you would choose to buy the US produced gasoline, then you need to explain why Walmart is full of cheap foreign goods instead of expensive American made clothing.

Anyway, you're analyzing this through one lens, so far as I can tell. Assuming that what you say is true, that Biden did stop fracking and you're not exaggerating, the picture is incomplete unless you also state WHY he did so. If it's to avoid environmental damage, then maybe it makes sense to stop it, or it is ok according to you to frack oil and artificially keep the price low by NOT addressing environmental damage, which is after all very real damage that will need to be PAID FOR by someone at some time. Or do you want to pass on your generation's selfishness onto future generations?

The issue is simple. If you're going to use oil which we will even during a transfer of energy to other fuels to "save the planet", you ought to use your own counry's oil that's so available.  It doesn't make sense to send your money to the Arabs or Russians and buy theirs.

[Alan Klein]

Willfully unvaccinated covid patients go to the back of the medical care line, always, behind everything from heart attacks to skinned knees. And must pay their own medical bills. Anyone making, selling, or using a fake vaccine card gets a big fine and jail time.

Should EMS handle cases of drivers who crashed after speeding?  What about drunk drivers?  Should fat people pay for their own treatment for diabetes?  Should photographers who slip in dangerous places and break their legs due to inattention taking selfies have to pay for their medical care?  Where would your recommendations end? 

[Robert Roaldi]

The issue is simple. If you're going to use oil which we will even during a transfer of energy to other fuels to "save the planet", you ought to use your own counry's oil that's so available.  It doesn't make sense to send your money to the Arabs or Russians and buy theirs.

Language matters. Stop using the phrase "save the planet". It's us we're saving. The planet will be fine, whether we're here or not.

[Alan Klein]

Language matters. Stop using the phrase "save the planet". It's us we're saving. The planet will be fine, whether we're here or not.

You didn't address my point.  Doesn't it make sense to use your own fossil fuels while the country tries to switch to less fossil-type fuels?  Causing the loss of American jobs and sending your currency to foreigners is counter-productive.  You're cutting your nose off to spite your face. As a Canadian, why would you be in favor of shutting down the XL pipeline in America?  Has that reduced fossil fuel use?

[digitaldog]

Should EMS handle cases of drivers who crashed after speeding?  What about drunk drivers?  Should fat people pay for their own treatment for diabetes?  Should photographers who slip in dangerous places and break their legs due to inattention taking selfies have to pay for their medical care?  Where would your recommendations end?

As expected, an idiotic analogy.
Accidents are just that. Unvaccinated morons who don't wear masks in a global pandemic are not an accident. It's deliberate malpractice.
Try again using an ounce of critical thinking if possible.

[Robert Roaldi]

You didn't address my point.  Doesn't it make sense to use your own fossil fuels while the country tries to switch to less fossil-type fuels?  Causing the loss of American jobs and sending your currency to foreigners is counter-productive.  You're cutting your nose off to spite your face. As a Canadian, why would you be in favor of shutting down the XL pipeline in America?  Has that reduced fossil fuel use?

No, I did not address your point. I did not intend to because these topics have been covered on these pages repeatedly.

But I am curious. Why do you preach to us that government should not interfere in markets then turn around and promote exactly that?

[Robert Roaldi]

The issue is simple. ...

No it's not.

[TechTalk]

But, the thinking is... it goes round and round in a little circle to avoid any new concepts or conflicting issues. It sometimes does accomplish the goal of sending people chasing after rabbits and going down rabbit holes, however.

[Alan Klein]

No, I did not address your point. I did not intend to because these topics have been covered on these pages repeatedly.

But I am curious. Why do you preach to us that government should not interfere in markets then turn around and promote exactly that?

I don't recall where I recommended government interference in markets other than things like defense purchases and let's say building codes for safer construction although even there it is often overdone.

The problem with government interference in markets is that it creates malinvestments.  For example, the artificially low-interest rates by the central government rather than allowing the free markets to determine interest rates has created bubbles in the stock market and real estate.  Had the free market-determined interest rates, rates would be higher.  People wouldn't be chasing these other markets to make some interest.  They would have kept their money in safer CDs, bonds, etc.  The stock and real estate markets wouldn't be in bubbles making it very hard for younger families to afford to buy a home even with lower mortgage rates.  When these bubbles bust, billions will be lost especially by people who got in later at higher prices.  The government is distorting these markets.  Economies are better off when millions of buyers and sellers by their own free will decide what they want.  Look how the government has created a shortage in available labor as people refuse to work because they're getting so much money from the government?  The government may mean well, but they screw things up. 

[LesPalenik]

The problem with government interference in markets is that it creates malinvestments.  For example, the artificially low-interest rates by the central government rather than allowing the free markets to determine interest rates has created bubbles in the stock market and real estate.  Had the free market-determined interest rates, rates would be higher.  People wouldn't be chasing these other markets to make some interest.  They would have kept their money in safer CDs, bonds, etc.  The stock and real estate markets wouldn't be in bubbles making it very hard for younger families to afford to buy a home even with lower mortgage rates.  When these bubbles bust, billions will be lost especially by people who got in later at higher prices.  The government is distorting these markets.  Economies are better off when millions of buyers and sellers by their own free will decide what they want.  Look how the government has created a shortage in available labor as people refuse to work because they're getting so much money from the government?  The government may mean well, but they screw things up.

Indeed, the government just screws the economy up. Plenty of such examples.
Look at GM. In 2009, the government saved them from a bankruptcy and now the company is ready to go up belly up again. Having a CEO like Mary Barra doesn't help either. In her desperation she poured borrowed money into questionable enterprises like Nikola Motor Company and Lordstown Motors and their own Bolt EV's are a disaster. And just in 2021, they wasted $2.95 billions an advertising. Tesla spent zero dollars on advertising and they can't make enough cars to satisfy their orders.