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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 469513 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11160 on: September 05, 2021, 03:25:31 pm »

that's what Jeremy is implying when he says black people don't have the ability or intelligence to obtain ID's so they can vote just like white people.

Disgust:

to provoke to loathing, repugnance, or aversion : be offensive to

to cause (one) to lose an interest or intention
//is disgusted by their ignorance

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disgust

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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11161 on: September 05, 2021, 03:53:53 pm »

Like I said.  Gloating. 

gloating
/ˈɡlōdiNG/
adjective
dwelling on one's own success or another's misfortune with smugness or malignant pleasure.

While you're looking things up to quote, you might try "tragic irony" as it's a far better match to Andrew's comments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony#Tragic_irony

"Tragic irony is a special category of dramatic irony. In tragic irony, the words and actions of the characters contradict the real situation, which the spectators fully realize."

As well as "natural selection" to which Andrew referred, to quote Merriam-Webster again...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/natural selection

"a natural process that results in the survival and reproductive success of individuals or groups best adjusted to their environment"

"Examples of natural selection in a Sentence

Recent Examples on the Web

// One of the ironies of stupidity in its conservative and libertarian forms is its dogged opposition to the very safety net that stands between an imbecile and the harsher effects of natural selection.
— Garret Keizer, Harper's Magazine, 17 Aug. 2021"


Or... you could just stick with a transparently narrow viewpoint designed to score points in an imaginary game.   
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11162 on: September 05, 2021, 03:55:41 pm »

Disgust:

to provoke to loathing, repugnance, or aversion : be offensive to

to cause (one) to lose an interest or intention
//is disgusted by their ignorance

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disgust


What is disgusting what I said? You don't even know what I meant when I said it.

Jeremy was arguing for lenient rules for black people because he said they were incapable of voting like white people do. They have to be treated like inferiors.   That's a put down he made of black people.  I was arguing that black people are as capable as white people in complying with voting rules to obtain ID's so they can vote. 

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11163 on: September 05, 2021, 03:56:15 pm »

Indeed, "tragic irony"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/09/anti-vax-radio-hosts-dying-covid
Conservative radio hosts all across America are losing their lives for the cause. In the past month alone, five talk radio personalities who were vocal COVID-19-deniers, anti-vaxxers, or anti-maskers have all died after contracting the virus. Most recently was WNDB’s Marc Bernier, a late Daytona, Florida, talk radio host who dubbed himself “Mr. Anti-Vax” in December while assuring his listeners “I’m not taking it.” True to his word, Bernier contracted COVID-19 roughly three weeks ago and his death was announced over the weekend by his radio station––which had awkwardly acknowledged his on-air “anti-vaccine” commentary just before his passing.

Maybe some or all have a 'gofundme' where Alan can contribute some of his Social Security money for the 'cause'.  :D
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11164 on: September 05, 2021, 03:58:03 pm »

While you're looking things up to quote, you might try "tragic irony" as it's a far better match to Andrew's comments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony#Tragic_irony

"Tragic irony is a special category of dramatic irony. In tragic irony, the words and actions of the characters contradict the real situation, which the spectators fully realize."

As well as "natural selection" to which Andrew referred, to quote Merriam-Webster again...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/natural selection

"a natural process that results in the survival and reproductive success of individuals or groups best adjusted to their environment"

"Examples of natural selection in a Sentence

Recent Examples on the Web

// One of the ironies of stupidity in its conservative and libertarian forms is its dogged opposition to the very safety net that stands between an imbecile and the harsher effects of natural selection.
— Garret Keizer, Harper's Magazine, 17 Aug. 2021"


Or... you could just stick with a transparently narrow viewpoint designed to score points in an imaginary game.   
Stop apologizing for him.  It's unseemly.  He was gloating.  Period.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11165 on: September 05, 2021, 04:23:33 pm »

What is disgusting what I said? You don't even know what I meant when I said it.

Jeremy was arguing for lenient rules for black people because he said they were incapable of voting like white people do. They have to be treated like inferiors.   That's a put down he made of black people.  I was arguing that black people are as capable as white people in complying with voting rules to obtain ID's so they can vote.

None of the above bears any resemblance to the truth whatsoever—especially the portion in bold or the portion that I underlined earlier. Anyone with a strong enough stomach can read what Jeremy actually wrote as well as the false attributions made by Alan at the links below. I have no desire to discuss the disgusting affair any further with him. It speaks for itself.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1213272#msg1213272

In the link above, Jeremy responded to Alan's question: "Why should your Canada and probably most other countries have ID requirements but America should waive its requirements?" To which, Jeremy replied with a comparison of racism and inequality in the U.S. and Canada and the potential impact that "could" have on voter ID requirements which, although they apply to all voters, have produced a disproportionate effect on some racial and economic demographics in the U.S. What Jeremy actually said is...

It could be because in Canada there is not such racism and inequality that strict ID requirements don't result in disenfranchisement of a specific demographic.

Following this statement, Alan then proceeded to make a series of wild assertions as to what Jeremy's thoughts were; and far worse, made false attributions of statements to Jeremy which he never made. For reasons known only to him, he continues to do so—as illustrated above and in the links below.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1213311#msg1213311

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1213319#msg1213319

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1213321#msg1213321
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 05:29:02 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11166 on: September 05, 2021, 04:46:06 pm »

Stop apologizing for him.  It's unseemly.  He was gloating.  Period.

I wasn't apologizing for Andrew as nothing he said requires any apology. My post was about you. I was pointing out your inability and unwillingness to engage in even meager attempts at any subtlety or complexity of thought when it doesn't suit your personal agenda.

You do, however, have a tremendous ability to attribute thoughts, along with false statements and quotes, to others when it does suit your personal agenda. Your posting history is a testament to that ability.

For reasons that should be obvious, I'm now done with responding to you for the present.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 05:55:06 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11167 on: September 05, 2021, 05:47:24 pm »

McCarthy isn't to be taken seriously:
'He's making this up': Ex-prosecutor calls out McCarthy's threat
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/09/01/kevin-mccarthy-threat-companies-nr-vpx.cnn

McCarthyism version 2.0. The 2021 remake of a noir classic.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11168 on: September 05, 2021, 08:32:59 pm »

My recent post above, which included a quotation from Garret Keizer (Harper's Magazine, 17 Aug. 2021) found in the current Merriam-Webster online dictionary definition of "natural selection", made me curious to look up the article. It's an interesting essay on stupidity entitled The Third Force - On stupidity and transcendence. To give you a taste, it begins with...

"In 1943, after being interrogated by Vichy police officers who suspected him (rightly) of conspiring to rescue Jews from the occupying Nazis, a French clergyman named André Trocmé stepped into the open air with a revised view of the human condition. “Before he entered that police station in Limoges, he thought the world was a scene where two forces were struggling for power: God and the Devil,” writes one of his chroniclers. “From then on, he knew that there was a third force seeking hegemony over this world: stupidity.”

Trocmé’s eureka was by no means unique—his German contemporary and co-religionist Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote that stupidity (or “folly,” depending on your translation) was “a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice”—and it still rings true today. From the troglodytic inanities of entertainments such as the Instagram account Girls Getting Hurt (894,000 followers) to the pyrotechnic disasters of gender-reveal parties, stupidity is everywhere we look, not least of all in those who look for it everywhere but within themselves.

My own Trocmé moment came with a photo in the New York Times of an angry crowd protesting the tyranny of face masks in the midst of an “exaggerated” pandemic, an ominous prelude to the storming of the Capitol the following year to overturn a “stolen” election. As luck would have it, the antimask protests were taking place at the same time that my wife was reading about England during the Second World War, so there was this repeated dinnertime comparison of the prodigious sacrifices made by bombed-out Londoners with those that peacetime Michiganders found insufferable enough to justify calling up the militia. “Delusional,” “obstinate,” and “perverse” seemed woefully inadequate descriptors, and stupid regrettably unkind, but there it was. What else could you call it?

“Stupid” doesn’t mean unintelligent or even uninformed. The political philosopher Eric Voegelin was closer to the mark when he defined stupidity as a “loss of reality.” It’s possible to take Voegelin’s definition a step further and say that stupidity is a denial of reality to the degree that one’s own survival, to say nothing of the survival of others, is imperiled. “Too dumb to live,” we might say, summoning metaphors of dodo birds and dinosaurs, creatures who may not have been especially unintelligent but who owe their reputations as lamebrains in large part to their extinction. Stupidity is oblivious to negative consequences; it falls into a pit. Gross stupidity invites negative consequences; it looks for a pit. There’s an element of willfulness to it: let the oceans rise, let the virus rage, you can’t scare me. Socrates held that human beings do not knowingly act against their best interests; perhaps his wisdom made it hard for him to imagine a human being who could say, “To hell with my best interests, and screw Socrates too.” A willful loss of reality, however death-defying it may appear, is never far from a wish for death."

In case you want to read the entire essay it's linked below...

https://harpers.org/archive/2021/09/the-third-force-stupidity-and-transcendence
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Robert Roaldi

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11170 on: September 05, 2021, 10:29:40 pm »

I wasn't apologizing for Andrew as nothing he said requires any apology. My post was about you. I was pointing out your inability and unwillingness to engage in even meager attempts at any subtlety or complexity of thought when it doesn't suit your personal agenda.

You do, however, have a tremendous ability to attribute thoughts, along with false statements and quotes, to others when it does suit your personal agenda. Your posting history is a testament to that ability.

For reasons that should be obvious, I'm now done with responding to you for the present.
There was nothing subtle about his gloating.  His words speak for themselves.

Manoli

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11171 on: September 06, 2021, 03:16:20 am »

I can think of no clearer example of libel, given that Alan Klein has repeatedly been asked and encouraged to both retract and apologise - something he has steadfastly refused to do citing a litany of absurdities.  A competent lawyer, a NJ lawsuit and punitive damages should soon persuade Klein to come to his senses. Notably sad, pathetic even, that this should be the measure of the man.


None of the above bears any resemblance to the truth whatsoever—especially the portion in bold or the portion that I underlined earlier. Anyone with a strong enough stomach can read what Jeremy actually wrote as well as the false attributions made by Alan at the links below. I have no desire to discuss the disgusting affair any further with him. It speaks for itself.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1213272#msg1213272

In the link above, Jeremy responded to Alan's question: "Why should your Canada and probably most other countries have ID requirements but America should waive its requirements?" To which, Jeremy replied with a comparison of racism and inequality in the U.S. and Canada and the potential impact that "could" have on voter ID requirements which, although they apply to all voters, have produced a disproportionate effect on some racial and economic demographics in the U.S. What Jeremy actually said is...

It could be because in Canada there is not such racism and inequality that strict ID requirements don't result in disenfranchisement of a specific demographic.”

Following this statement, Alan then proceeded to make a series of wild assertions as to what Jeremy's thoughts were; and far worse, made false attributions of statements to Jeremy which he never made. For reasons known only to him, he continues to do so—as illustrated above and in the links below.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1213311#msg1213311

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1213319#msg1213319

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1213321#msg1213321

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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11172 on: September 06, 2021, 04:54:11 am »

I can think of no clearer example of libel... A competent lawyer...
In a more civil society perhaps, but not so likely in the U.S. In this country you can smear someone from here 'til hell won't have it and generally get away with it.

Malignant malicious assertions, devoid of reality, are as much a part of the American diet as fat, salt, and sugar and more readily digested by many. In any event... Libel and slander, while not protected by the first amendment, are almost as cherished as a foundational and fundamental right.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 04:57:17 am by TechTalk »
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Manoli

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11173 on: September 06, 2021, 08:16:16 am »

In practical terms I’m sure you are correct, but from my very basic understanding and knowledge of American law, I thought that though there was no Federal liability, there are some states that do have defamation laws on their books. 

Quote
To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things:
1) a false statement purporting to be fact;
2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person;
3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and
4) damages, or some harm caused to the person or entity who is the subject of the
statement.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/defamation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law#Defamation_law_in_modern_practice

One somewhat ‘amusing’ subtlety I was unaware of did come to light
Quote
One very important distinction today is that European and Commonwealth jurisdictions adhere to a theory that every publication of a defamation gives rise to a separate claim, so that a defamation on the Internet could be sued on in any country in which it was read , while American law only allows one claim for the primary publication

In other words Jeremy could sue Alan Klein in the British Courts, in all probability obtain  a verdict close to a Summary Judgement, and then be free to pursue and serve AK in any country recognising the jurisdiction of the UK courts.

The downside would be that no British Court is likely to award Jeremy a sum approaching what a US court could award by way of punitive damages.

Incidentally, where is the LuLa forum ‘published’ - is it not Canada ?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 10:45:42 am by Manoli »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11174 on: September 06, 2021, 09:35:53 am »

I can think of no clearer example of libel, given that Alan Klein has repeatedly been asked and encouraged to both retract and apologise - something he has steadfastly refused to do citing a litany of absurdities.  A competent lawyer, a NJ lawsuit and punitive damages should soon persuade Klein to come to his senses. Notably sad, pathetic even, that this should be the measure of the man.


Libel?  Oh please.  I've been called a Nazi by many members here for supporting Trump. What you're saying is libel.  Maybe I'll sue you. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11175 on: September 06, 2021, 09:38:54 am »

In practical terms I’m sure you are correct, but from my very basic understanding and knowledge of American law, I thought that though there was no Federal liability, there are some states that do have defamation laws on their books. 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/defamation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law#Defamation_law_in_modern_practice

One smmewhat ‘amusing’ subtlety I was unaware of did come to light
In other words Jeremy could sue Alan Klein in the British Courts, in all probability obtain  a verdict close to a Summary Judgement, and then be free to pursue and serve AK in any country recognising the jurisdiction of the UK courts.

The downside would be that no British Court is likely to award Jeremy a sum approaching what a US court could award by way of punitive damages.

Incidentally, where is the LuLa forum ‘published’ - is it not Canada ?
So I could go to British courts and sue for people calling me a Nazi as a supporter of Trump? 

PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11176 on: September 06, 2021, 09:59:46 am »

So I could go to British courts and sue for people calling me a Nazi as a supporter of Trump?

If someone called me a Trump supporter, *that* would be grounds for a libel suit.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11177 on: September 06, 2021, 10:02:25 am »

If someone called me a Trump supporter, *that* would be grounds for a libel suit.
That's actually funny Peter.  I suppose we could say the same thing about Biden.  :)

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11178 on: September 06, 2021, 10:21:41 am »

Libel?  Oh please.  I've been called a Nazi by many members here for supporting Trump. What you're saying is libel.  Maybe I'll sue you.
Nazi? Ridiculous. As dumb as a bag of hammers; more accurate.
Quote
smmewhat ‘amusing’
Proof of concept!
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11179 on: September 06, 2021, 10:34:25 am »

Looks like Americans will have to go to work after Labor Day.  This should help the economy get back on its feet. 

Millions of Americans lose jobless benefits as federal aid expires, leading families onto uncertain path
https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/millions-of-americans-lose-jobless-benefits-as-federal-aid-expires-leading-families-onto-uncertain-path/
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