Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Sometimes you have to press the government to do things. I'd suggest you take the simple expedients of writing the Capitol Police and DOJ, and filing a FOIA request. In the alternative, you can sit on your ass and wait for it to fall in your lap. Complaining about it here on the LuLa Coffee Corner is unlikely to get you any closer to your goal of finding out what happened.

FOIA requests are not applicable to the Capitol Police.  That's wrong.  In Floyd and other recent cases, the police officers' names were released in two days.  While I don't expect that, there should be some investigation reports made public after all this time.

The Capitol Police is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), a law that requires federal agencies to disclose a large amount of information to the public. That leaves reports by the department’s inspector general that probe allegations of wrongdoing shielded from the public.

Other federal law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and Drug Enforcement Administration are subject to FOIA laws.

Local police departments also are required under their state’s sunshine laws to disclose information to the public.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/mar/15/ashli-babbitt-capitol-riot-shooting-death-shrouded/

[faberryman]

FOIA requests are not applicable to the Capitol Police.  That's wrong.  In Floyd and other recent cases, the police officers' names were released in two days.  While I don't expect that, there should be some investigation reports made public after all this time.

The Capitol Police is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), a law that requires federal agencies to disclose a large amount of information to the public. That leaves reports by the department’s inspector general that probe allegations of wrongdoing shielded from the public.

Other federal law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and Drug Enforcement Administration are subject to FOIA laws.

Local police departments also are required under their state’s sunshine laws to disclose information to the public.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/mar/15/ashli-babbitt-capitol-riot-shooting-death-shrouded/

If the Capitol Police are not subject to an FOIA request, you could still write them.

The DOJ was conducting a separate review to determine if the deceased woman's civil right were violated. Perhaps you could get a copy of their report by writing for it or filing an FOIA.

One thing I noted in the article was that the incident was still under investigation as of two days ago.

"He declined to comment on whether the officer’s name will be released, saying the investigation remains active."

According to the article, the current status is this:

"On Monday, a spokesman for the District’s Metropolitan Police Department, which is overseeing the investigation, denied that a final decision had been made on criminal charges."

“The United States Attorney’s Office has not determined if charges will/will not be filed,” spokesman Dustin Sternbeck said in a statement to The Washington Times."

If you think the law needs to be changed to provide more information more quickly, I'd suggest you get in touch with Senator Ron Johnson. From what I've read, he seems to be the most active one about investigating the Capitol riot, and he is a Trump supporter.

There are a lot of things you could be doing besides complaining about it on the LuLa Coffee Corner.

[Robert Roaldi]

And thus the socialist armageddon begins (or Fascist, it's not clear which, some on another thread claim there's not much difference).

I read somewhere that they are swamped by this investigation, too many crimes to follow up on, so I'm not surprised there's a delay. OTOH, I have some sympathy for your point, but slow courts have resulted in lots of people being detained for long periods if they can't make bail or if there is no bail, so it seems to be a chronic issue.

Related to this, one thing I've often wondered about is the effect of private prison corporations on all this. Since those organizations depend on people staying inside to make a profit, I'm cynical enough to expect that this has an effect on bail applications and early "good behaviour" release, etc. I hope someone is monitoring this.

[Alan Klein]

If the Capitol Police are not subject to an FOIA request, you could still write them.

The DOJ was conducting a separate review to determine if the deceased woman's civil right were violated. Perhaps you could get a copy of their report by writing for it or filing an FOIA.

One thing I noted in the article was that the incident was still under investigation as of two days ago.

"He declined to comment on whether the officer’s name will be released, saying the investigation remains active."

According to the article, the current status is this:

"On Monday, a spokesman for the District’s Metropolitan Police Department, which is overseeing the investigation, denied that a final decision had been made on criminal charges."

“The United States Attorney’s Office has not determined if charges will/will not be filed,” spokesman Dustin Sternbeck said in a statement to The Washington Times."

If you think the law needs to be changed to provide more information more quickly, I'd suggest you get in touch with Senator Ron Johnson. From what I've read, he seems to be the most active one about investigating the Capitol riot.

There are a lot of things you could be doing.

It should not take 2 1/2 months after a person was killed to get a report from the investigators.  They're stalling and you have a double standard. Apparently these things move quicker if the victim is black or a known criminal.  That's wrong.  Everyone should be treated similarly.

[LesPalenik]

It should not take 2 1/2 months after a person was killed to get a report from the investigators.  They're stalling and you have a double standard. Apparently these things move quicker if the victim is black or a known criminal.  That's wrong.  Everyone should be treated similarly.

You think that she shouldn't have been stopped at that door? Any inkling what would have happened if she and the other thugs breached that point?

[Alan Klein]

You think that she shouldn't have been stopped at that door? Any inkling what would have happened if she and the other thugs breached that point?

Maybe she deserved to be shot.  I don't know.  But that's not the point.  It's been 2 1/2 months since a cop shot an unarmed woman. Why weren't non-lethal measures taken?  Tear gas?  Pepper spray? Who told him to open fire?  What procedures were in place?  Who else was there?  Why didn't they shoot, only him? What was his experience and training?  Who was he (or she)?

Only investigators can arrive at these facts, not speculation based on prejudice and clips from certain cameras and opinions from people who aren't knowledgeable of the actual facts.  The family deserves answers.  We expect these things in other cases.  It should happen in this case as well.

[LesPalenik]

That officer had maybe just a second or two to contemplate what to do. His decision to shoot could have been a result of his training or of a sleepless night before.

When police believe a suspect could harm or kill them, they're usually trained to fire as many gunshots as it takes to bring that suspect down. The shooting itself almost always lasts only seconds. But questions about whether the number of shots officers fired was warranted -- or whether that suspect posed a deadly threat to an officer in the first place -- can persist long after that suspect is wounded or killed.

The "textbook answer" is that officers fire until they've terminated a threat, according to Seth Stoughton, an associate professor at the University of South Carolina School of Law who studies policing. Officers use deadly force on a suspect they perceive to be an imminent threat of death or bodily harm to the officers or others. In training, police are told to use force until that person no longer presents a threat, Stoughton said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/why-police-shoot-so-many-rounds-trnd/index.html 

[faberryman]

It should not take 2 1/2 months after a person was killed to get a report from the investigators.  They're stalling and you have a double standard. Apparently these things move quicker if the victim is black or a known criminal.  That's wrong.  Everyone should be treated similarly.

If you feel strongly about the issue, I have suggested several things you could be doing.

[faberryman]

Maybe she deserved to be shot.  I don't know.  But that's not the point.  It's been 2 1/2 months since a cop shot an unarmed woman. Why weren't non-lethal measures taken?  Tear gas?  Pepper spray? Who told him to open fire?  What procedures were in place?  Who else was there?  Why didn't they shoot, only him? What was his experience and training?  Who was he (or she)?

Only investigators can arrive at these facts, not speculation based on prejudice and clips from certain cameras and opinions from people who aren't knowledgeable of the actual facts.  The family deserves answers.  We expect these things in other cases.  It should happen in this case as well.

If you feel strongly about the issue, I have suggested several things you could be doing.

[Alan Klein]

That officer had maybe just a second or two to contemplate what to do. His decision to shoot could have been a result of his training or of a sleepless night before.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/why-police-shoot-so-many-rounds-trnd/index.html 

No one is arguing those points.  But what are the answers?  Did he over-react?  Was he properly trained and if not why not?  Was he a supervisor or lower rank?  Just what was his rank and who was he? Why didn't he use tear gas or take other non-lethal measures first? Did he warn anyone he was about to fire?  If not, why not?  Nobody was shooting at him and she was not armed.  Did he aim at her or was this just a shot fired willy nilly into the crowd as it appears to be which would be probably illegal or at least against training and acceptable procedures?  Has he been questioned?  Did he violate any procedural requirements? I could go on and on with facts the public deserves to know.

What are the answers to these questions?  Why is it taking so long to reveal them.  This happened on Jan 6th.  It's March 17th.

[Alan Klein]

If you feel strongly about the issue, I have suggested several things you could be doing.

Where is the biased press?  That's their job.  It's why the constitution gave them freedom of the press.  To report on government malfeasance. They seem to be very selective of what cases they investigate.  Unfortunately, this woman is white and identifies with Trump.  Nothing to see.  Just move along.

[PeterAit]

I found this.  All info is being withheld by the government. A civilian was shot by the police and killed.  Yet the officer's name and details are being withheld 2 1/2 months later.  That's wrong.  Speculations and opinions by the media and others are prejudiced. We need an official report.  What is the government covering up?

Capitol riot shooting death shrouded in mystery more than two months later
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/mar/15/ashli-babbitt-capitol-riot-shooting-death-shrouded/

Using the Washington Times as a source is akin to pasting a "dummy" sign on your forehead. It was founded and is still owned by the "Moonies," aka the Unification Church, and has a long and sordid history of publishing false and misleading information including climate change denial, ozone depletion denial, second-hand smoke danger denial, Obama born in Kenya and a Muslim crapola, praise for white nationalists and neo-confederates, and on and on. After the Jan 6th riot they published a completely fabricated story that facial recognition technology had found a few AntiFa members in the mob. The truth, verified by the facial recognition company, is that they had actually recognized a couple of known neo-nazis and a q-anon person--no AntiFa. If the Washington Times reported that the sun rose in the east I'd feel obliged to check it out on Snopes.

As for the officer who shot a protester not being identified, there are clear reasons for that. The Trumpites have a history of threatening people they don't like, death threats, spreading lies on social media, vandalism, threats to their kids, etc. This has happen with Fauci, with other public health officials who recommend masks and closures, election officials who refused to go along with Trump's "stolen election" bullshit, senators--Republican senators--who were skeptical of Brett Kavanaugh's SCOTUS nomination, and more. Can you imagine the hatred that would be directed at the officer if his name was known? This was the right decision.

[Alan Klein]

Using the Washington Times as a source is akin to pasting a "dummy" sign on your forehead. It was founded and is still owned by the "Moonies," aka the Unification Church, and has a long and sordid history of publishing false and misleading information including climate change denial, ozone depletion denial, second-hand smoke danger denial, Obama born in Kenya and a Muslim crapola, praise for white nationalists and neo-confederates, and on and on. After the Jan 6th riot they published a completely fabricated story that facial recognition technology had found a few AntiFa members in the mob. The truth, verified by the facial recognition company, is that they had actually recognized a couple of known neo-nazis and a q-anon person--no AntiFa. If the Washington Times reported that the sun rose in the east I'd feel obliged to check it out on Snopes.

As for the officer who shot a protester not being identified, there are clear reasons for that. The Trumpites have a history of threatening people they don't like, death threats, spreading lies on social media, vandalism, threats to their kids, etc. This has happen with Fauci, with other public health officials who recommend masks and closures, election officials who refused to go along with Trump's "stolen election" bullshit, senators--Republican senators--who were skeptical of Brett Kavanaugh's SCOTUS nomination, and more. Can you imagine the hatred that would be directed at the officer if his name was known? This was the right decision.

Threats against the cops who have been charged with killing Floyd were released in two days along with videos etc.  Similar in other cases.  Why not this case?  I'm sure the federal government cops know how to protect their own.  Maybe they could put him in their Witness Protection Program. 

Your argument does not relieve the government from letting us know, especially the family, the results of their investigation.  Their daughter, a 14-year USAF veteran, was killed by a cop.  This is America not Russia.

[digitaldog]

This is America not Russia.

Hilarious, assumptive, ignorant; everything so many expect from AK in these forums:

New US intel report shows Russia, Trump and GOP acolytes have same goals
A new US intelligence report that finds Russia interfered in the 2020 election to help Donald Trump and hurt Joe Biden also underscores a fundamental truth: The gravest threat to US democracy comes from within.

The report, released by Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, finds that Moscow sought to inject misleading information about Biden into the campaign through officials and others close to Trump.
The real bombshell it contains is not the confidence of the spy agencies that Russia hoped to subvert American democracy. It is that US intelligence experts effectively confirmed that for the second election in a row, Trump acolytes repeatedly used, knowingly or otherwise, misinformation produced by the spies of one of America's most sworn foreign adversaries to try to win a US election.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/17/politics/trump-russia-elections/index.html

[faberryman]

Where is the biased press?  That's their job.  It's why the constitution gave them freedom of the press.  To report on government malfeasance. They seem to be very selective of what cases they investigate.  Unfortunately, this woman is white and identifies with Trump.  Nothing to see.  Just move along.

Why don't you send Tucker Carlson an email and suggest he cover the issue on one of his shows or in an opinion piece. He did an opinion piece on George Floyd last week, so I know he is interested in the topic of police killing unarmed people. His show has the highest ratings on cable TV so that would be the way to get maximum visibility for the issue.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-george-floyd-death-what-media-didnt-tell-you

[LesPalenik]

No one is arguing those points.  But what are the answers?  Did he over-react?  Was he properly trained and if not why not?  Was he a supervisor or lower rank?  Just what was his rank and who was he? Why didn't he use tear gas or take other non-lethal measures first? Did he warn anyone he was about to fire?  If not, why not?  Nobody was shooting at him and she was not armed.  Did he aim at her or was this just a shot fired willy nilly into the crowd as it appears to be which would be probably illegal or at least against training and acceptable procedures?  Has he been questioned?  Did he violate any procedural requirements? I could go on and on with facts the public deserves to know.

What are the answers to these questions?  Why is it taking so long to reveal them.  This happened on Jan 6th.  It's March 17th.

Why are you so distressed about it? Worrying about things outside of your control can raise your blood pressure and kill you. Good thing we were not in that building.

[Alan Klein]

Why don't you send Tucker Carlson an email and suggest he cover the issue on one of his shows or in an opinion piece. He did an opinion piece on George Floyd last week, so I know he is interested in the topic of police killing unarmed people. His show has the highest ratings on cable TV so that would be the way to get maximum visibility for the issue.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-george-floyd-death-what-media-didnt-tell-you

Apperently you feel that this woman should not be treated with the same concern as Floyd.   Why not?

[Alan Klein]

Why are you so distressed about it? Worrying about things outside of your control can raise your blood pressure and kill you. Good thing we were not in that building.

How do you know I wasn't in that building?

[LesPalenik]

Your argument does not relieve the government from letting us know, especially the family, the results of their investigation.  Their daughter, a 14-year USAF veteran, was killed by a cop.  This is America not Russia.

She was as much a saint as was George Floyd.  If she had stuck to her knitting rather than storming Capitol, she would have been well and alive today.

[LesPalenik]

How do you know I wasn't in that building?

I had a feeling that your wife would not have agreed for you taking part in such an adventure.