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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 425581 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9140 on: March 17, 2021, 05:53:45 pm »


"He is scared of a country that ‘looks nothing like the one he grew up in’ because diversity ‘isn’t our strength,’ immigrants make our country ‘poorer, dirtier, and more divided,’ and any attempt to change that culture is an attack on Western civilization. All of which is really just a long way of saying that when Tucker asks, ‘What is white supremacy?’ the answer is: basically that. It’s a belief that in a country where white people are dominant, that’s all down to their natural and innate abilities, and any effort to change that is an affront to the natural order of things.”

Throughout the 25-minute segment, Oliver makes the damning case for what many of us already knew: Carlson's transition in recent years to full-on white nationalism has garnered him a platform as large, and as dangerous, as it is today. He highlights the way Carlson advances racist and xenophobic ideas through his twisted narratives. For instance, Oliver points out that Carlson downplayed the insurrection at the Capitol yet denounced the summer 2020 Black Lives Matter protests.

The very notion that anyone who is not a native Indian (aka First Nation in Canada-speak) is against immigration is inherently ludicrous. And the idea that immigrants make the country poorer and dirtier is laughably stupid. Just another silly repeat of history. When the KKK revival took place in the 1920s, they were against Europeans of Catholic faith because they feared their allegiance would be to the pope and not America. Moronic bar talk.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9141 on: March 17, 2021, 05:56:57 pm »

You are making yet another unwarranted assumption about me. It is tiresome.

It did not escape my notice that your moral outrage over Ashley Babbitt was quelled the moment I suggested you actually do something instead of just complain, like write a letter, or send an email, or fill out an online form.

It is not surprising that you have now moved on to your favorite topic: fiscal stimulus causing inflation, as if you have not repeated your position frequently enough already. If it's Tuesday, it must be Alan's inflation rant. So here we go again. You are undoubtedly going to tell us for the umpteenth time all about how you had to live through stagflation forty years ago, and all the rest. Give us all a break and move on to something else.

And what's with quoting from the DeSantis article which appears on CNN's website? I thought they were the biased news media, the commie/lib press. It seems to me that if you like an article in the biased new media, it is true, but if you don't like it, it is fake news.
If I jumped to a conclusion about your beliefs, I'm sorry.  So let me just ask it as questions so you can clear up the matter. 

Do you believe she should be treated similarly to Floyd?  Should the public and her family be made aware of what the investigation of the circumstances are?  Should a cop be granted the right to shoot and kill an unarmed person without having to explain and provide support for his action?

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9142 on: March 17, 2021, 06:01:34 pm »

If I jumped to a conclusion about your beliefs, I'm sorry.  So let me just ask it as questions so you can clear up the matter. 

Do you believe she should be treated similarly to Floyd?  Should the public and her family be made aware of what the investigation of the circumstances are?  Should a cop be granted the right to shoot and kill an unarmed person without having to explain and provide support for his action?

The horse is dead, stop beating it. The investigation is on-going, you were already told that. Why are you are trying to make an issue out of literally nothing?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9143 on: March 17, 2021, 06:10:11 pm »

A completely false assertion and total crap. Video in link below.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/no-charges-recommended-officer-who-shot-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol




The article said "a law enforcement source familiar with the investigation told NBC News.  and "...police investigators..." These are not public releases of the investigation.  Those are unknown sources that mean nothing.  The family and the public deserve to know the full facts about the investigation.

From your article:

Investigators have determined the Capitol Police officer who shot and killed Ashli Babbitt during the U.S. Capitol riot should not be charged with any crimes, a law enforcement source familiar with the investigation told NBC News.

The Wall Street Journal first reported that police investigators have recommended the officer not be charged, although the U.S. Attorney's Office will make the final decision on the matter.

John Camp

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9144 on: March 17, 2021, 06:11:54 pm »

If I jumped to a conclusion about your beliefs, I'm sorry.  So let me just ask it as questions so you can clear up the matter. 

Do you believe she should be treated similarly to Floyd?  Should the public and her family be made aware of what the investigation of the circumstances are?  Should a cop be granted the right to shoot and kill an unarmed person without having to explain and provide support for his action?

Floyd was lying on the ground handcuffed with a cop's foot on his throat. I don't know if that caused his death -- I guess we'll find out in the trial. The woman who was shot to death in the Capitol was leading a riotous mob who claimed to be hunting the speaker presumably to kill her...that's what it looks like to me and a lot of other fairly rational people, who have actually taken the time to look at the numerous tapes and to listen to what the mob was chanting...and she was crawling through the last barrier between the mob and its targets. So, I don't see a great deal of similarity there. And while the woman may have been unarmed, she was clearly engaged in a violent act including a clear attempt to overthrow the government, so yes, I think a cop has the right to oppose a violent act and a violent effort to overthrow the government, even with violence. We pay cops to make that judgment, and he made it, correctly IMHO. I actually think this whole question is racist -- the only reason it is asked is because one person was black and the other white, and so an attempt is made to conceal the speciousness of it in a false equivalency -- the black family get a reward, the white woman doesn't.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9145 on: March 17, 2021, 06:12:46 pm »

If I jumped to a conclusion about your beliefs, I'm sorry.  So let me just ask it as questions so you can clear up the matter. 

Do you believe she should be treated similarly to Floyd?  Should the public and her family be made aware of what the investigation of the circumstances are?  Should a cop be granted the right to shoot and kill an unarmed person without having to explain and provide support for his action?

Yes. Yes. No.

Remember federalism and how it is a great experiment where 50 states do things differently and hopefully states will eventually adopt what works best. You are all for that. I'd wager the rules about when and how to release policemen's names and internal incident investigation reports differ between Minneapolis, Minnesota and D.C., so it is not surprising that information about the George Floyd killing and the Ashley Babbitt killing is coming out on a different schedule. Speaking of which, I have looked, and I can't find a link to the George Floyd internal incident investigation report. I don't know if it has been made public. Maybe you can find it.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 06:43:16 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9146 on: March 17, 2021, 06:18:59 pm »

Floyd was lying on the ground handcuffed with a cop's foot on his throat. I don't know if that caused his death -- I guess we'll find out in the trial. The woman who was shot to death in the Capitol was leading a riotous mob who claimed to be hunting the speaker presumably to kill her...that's what it looks like to me and a lot of other fairly rational people, who have actually taken the time to look at the numerous tapes and to listen to what the mob was chanting...and she was crawling through the last barrier between the mob and its targets. So, I don't see a great deal of similarity there. And while the woman may have been unarmed, she was clearly engaged in a violent act including a clear attempt to overthrow the government, so yes, I think a cop has the right to oppose a violent act and a violent effort to overthrow the government, even with violence. We pay cops to make that judgment, and he made it, correctly IMHO. I actually think this whole question is racist -- the only reason it is asked is because one person was black and the other white, and so an attempt is made to conceal the speciousness of it in a false equivalency -- the black family get a reward, the white woman doesn't.
So why not release the report of the investigation if it supports your view?

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9147 on: March 17, 2021, 06:19:34 pm »

Why are you are trying to make an issue out of literally nothing?

Had they been black, BLM would have been out in the street

The one person shot was a white... Can you imagine if she was an unarmed black woman?

If she were a black woman, there'd be rioting in the streets.  Don't White Lives Matter?

Apparently these things move quicker if the victim is black

Unfortunately, this woman is white and identifies with Trump.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9148 on: March 17, 2021, 06:23:29 pm »

Yes. Yes. No.

Remember federalism and how it is a great experiment where 50 states do things differently and hopefully states will eventually adopt what works best. You are all for that. I'd wager the rules about when and how to release policemen's names and internal incident investigation reports differ between Minnesota and D.C., so it is not surprising that information about the George Floyd killing and the Ashley Babbitt killing is coming out on a different schedule. Speaking of which, I have looked, and I can't find a link to the George Floyd internal incident investigation report. I don't know if it has been made public. Maybe you can find it.
Thanks for your honest answers.  Fourth question. After 2 1/2 months, should the public and the family have gotten an official report of what the investigators found?

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9149 on: March 17, 2021, 06:25:05 pm »


Thanks for showing the double standard that exists today.

faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9150 on: March 17, 2021, 06:31:48 pm »

Thanks for your honest answers.  Fourth question. After 2 1/2 months, should the public and the family have gotten an official report of what the investigators found?

I don’t know what the applicable law provides. Ashley Babbitt’s family is represented by an attorney. His bio says he is experienced in police brutality cases. I expect he will represent his clients to the best of his ability, and see to it the police do whatever they are required to do.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 06:40:44 pm by faberryman »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9151 on: March 17, 2021, 06:32:11 pm »

was this just a shot fired willy nilly into the crowd as it appears to be

A completely false assertion and total crap. Video in link below.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/no-charges-recommended-officer-who-shot-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol

The article said... [Blah... Blah... Blah...]

Your false assertion of "a shot fired willy nilly into the crowd as it appears to be" is called out for what it is... A completely false assertion and total crap. So, you don't reply to that—you change the subject to something else as usual.

Anyone that watches the video of the shooting in the article that I linked, will see that your statement was total crap. This is why you don't address my comment and change the subject instead.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9152 on: March 17, 2021, 06:36:30 pm »

I don’t know what the applicable law provides. Ashley Babbitt’s family is represented by an attorney. His bio says he is experienced in police brutality cases. I expect he will represent his clients to the best of his ability, and see to it the police do whatever they are required to do.
You didn't answer the question.  Leaving aside what the law allows and what the attorney is doing, should the report have been released?  After all, it's been 2 1/2 months.  Doesn't the family and the public deserve an explanation why her unarmed daughter was shot and killed and what the full circumstances were?

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9153 on: March 17, 2021, 06:38:25 pm »

Your false assertion of "a shot fired willy nilly into the crowd as it appears to be" is called out for what it is... A completely false assertion and total crap. So, you don't reply to that—you change the subject to something else as usual.

Anyone that watches the video of the shooting in the article that I linked, will see that your statement was total crap. This is why you don't address my comment and change the subject instead.

A video of a portion of what happened does not explain all the circumstances.  Only an official report will do that. 

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9154 on: March 17, 2021, 06:44:59 pm »

A video of a portion of what happened does not explain all the circumstances.  Only an official report will do that.

I said that your assertion that it appears to be "a shot fired willy nilly into the crowd" is total crap because it is total crap. You won't address that fact and will just keep changing the subject to something else.

I'm not going around in circles with you. Find another dance partner.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9155 on: March 17, 2021, 06:48:02 pm »

Unfortunately, this woman is white and identifies with Trump. 

Indeed, that was very unfortunate. And she paid dearly for her devotion.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9156 on: March 17, 2021, 06:50:24 pm »

You didn't answer the question.  Leaving aside what the law allows and what the attorney is doing, should the report have been released?  After all, it's been 2 1/2 months.  Doesn't the family and the public deserve an explanation why her unarmed daughter was shot and killed and what the full circumstances were?

I don't know what a reasonable amount of time for an investigation is. I have no experience or expertise in the area. I am not going to pick a number out of the air. Like I said, it has been a year and I don't know if the the George Floyd internal investigation report has been made public. I looked and couldn't find it.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9157 on: March 17, 2021, 06:55:55 pm »

You didn't answer the question.  Leaving aside what the law allows and what the attorney is doing, should the report have been released?  After all, it's been 2 1/2 months.  Doesn't the family and the public deserve an explanation why her unarmed daughter was shot and killed and what the full circumstances were?

We both agreed that she was no saint. At the time she was shot she didn't carry any weapon, she was focused on climbing through the partially broken door. She was stopped dead cold in middle of a violent act. What do you think, would have happened to the unarmed lawmakers and police officers protecting them, if she and dozens others had breached that door?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9158 on: March 17, 2021, 07:01:12 pm »

I said that your assertion that it appears to be "a shot fired willy nilly into the crowd" is total crap because it is total crap. You won't address that fact and will just keep changing the subject to something else.

I'm not going around in circles with you. Find another dance partner.
willy nilly=without direction or planning, haphazardly

The video shows a guy who was protected behind a door.  He moves his gun from one rioter to another before making an arbitrary "willy nilly" decision to shoot the woman who was still behind the door and a barrier in front of the door.  Why did he shoot her and not one of the men?  Did she seem more dangerous?  Did he have problems with women?  Was he a racist?  Did he see a weapon? Was that his only option?  Did he have a taser?  Other defensive means? Were there other with him out of sight? If so, who?  Why did the other guards who were protecting the door leave their position? Who told them to go?  Why? There are a million questions that have to be answered.  The point is the public and the family have a right to know what the investigation uncovered. 


https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/national-international/video-shows-fatal-shooting-of-ashli-babbitt-at-u-s-capitol/2491343/

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9159 on: March 17, 2021, 07:04:04 pm »

Find another dance partner.
He will continue to dance this way, until all his dance partners refuse as well.
When you support a foolish, bigoted liar who can't accept facts, science and data, like Trump, some of that stink rubs off sadly. 
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