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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 425597 times)

Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7460 on: February 18, 2021, 12:24:32 pm »

Great. And no one, including I have said otherwise. I am not dismissing or disagreeing with your history.
Alan made a statement that as is so often the case, knee jerk, assumptive, an incorrect generalization. He wrote "NASA didn't build the rocket"
NASA says otherwise but NASA didn't state in detail, what you provided. So simple question true or false: NASA didn't build the rocket.
Not all, not part, they didn't build it. True, as NASA's actual historic web site states, or false.
This is akin to Alan saying "Fords cars are not built by humans" because part of the building is robotic.

Q: And who wrote the cheques?
Now you can go on record:
The US citizens, or the Government?
Hint, it wasn't the US citizens.  :P

Witness the digital dog trying in vain to do the backstroke...


On the record.  The US Citizens.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7461 on: February 18, 2021, 12:25:37 pm »

It would say that, but it would not be a COMPLETE history of Apollo if it did not describe NASA's role in orchestrating and directing the programme.

Correct.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7462 on: February 18, 2021, 12:25:54 pm »

Did you listen to it?  She seemed convinced it would end in twelve years.  But The Bronx has been going down for years, so I could see why she came to that conclusion. :)

Is the swamp drained yet?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7463 on: February 18, 2021, 12:27:08 pm »

So what do you call an enterprise initiated, directed and controlled by the government, utilizing the citizens' common resources?

...wait for it...

A project paid for by and for the benefit of the citizens.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7464 on: February 18, 2021, 12:27:15 pm »

Don't get me wrong.  NASA is the only agency I like.  And I was willing to spend my money, taxpayer money, to support it.  But I was wrong. The fact we have private industry competing for rocket business, both to supply governments and private industry, is a better way to do it.

Like any other industry, competition, design creativity, etc. is magnified in private industry, just like the camera market. Can you imagine some government agency deciding on which format is the best, whether money should be spent on DSLRs, micro 4/3, or whatever?  We'd never be where we are if the government was setting the standards and specs.  Of course, government requirements such as for space and military have created a new science.  But they basically have set the standard of requirements and let private industry work out the design and methods to get there.

If we had relied on private industry to get it done, we wouldn't have gotten there by the end of the decade like Kennedy challenged us to do. It's 50 years later and private industry still hasn't gotten us there.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7465 on: February 18, 2021, 12:27:24 pm »

Because that is the only thing I have to go on with you. Who could possibly know that when you said "no one" you meant "most politicians in power", which is itself vague. I bet the next time you say "no one" you won't mean "most politicians in power". Who'll know what you'll mean then.

I don't listen to AOC. I had to look up the comment that you said she made about the world ending in 12 years. First, to see if it was actually true, or if it was just another of your false facts. Second, if she actually said it, what was the context. The first search result came back was AOC clarifying that she meant it in "dry humor", which answered the question.
You know what I mean.  No one converses literally except robots and people on the left who want to dismiss your beliefs by calling you a liar.  You're just playing the same game you play with Trump.  We get it.

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7466 on: February 18, 2021, 12:27:41 pm »

Witness the digital dog trying in vain to do the backstroke...
On the record.  The US Citizens.
No Craig, the US Citizens didn't sign those checks. I'm sorry you can't connect the dots between paying for something and signing a check.  :'(
Witness Craig trying in vain to do the backstroke...
A project paid for by and for the benefit of the citizens.
Paid for yes, checks signed by, no.
Make up your minds.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7467 on: February 18, 2021, 12:29:22 pm »

So what do you call an enterprise initiated, directed and controlled by the government, utilizing the citizens' common resources?

...wait for it...
Overbudget.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7468 on: February 18, 2021, 12:30:32 pm »

A project paid for by and for the benefit of the citizens.

Using the question as an answer is weak.  Lame, in other words.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7469 on: February 18, 2021, 12:30:42 pm »

Did you listen to it?  She seemed convinced it would end in twelve years.  But The Bronx has been going down for years, so I could see why she came to that conclusion. :)

What something sounds like to you is of no interest or consequence. I was providing the information for those who may have read your posts and wondered what stick you'd gotten the wrong end of.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7470 on: February 18, 2021, 12:34:40 pm »

Using the question as an answer is weak.  Lame, in other words.

I just write the truth. 
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7471 on: February 18, 2021, 12:37:39 pm »

No Craig, the US Citizens didn't sign those checks. I'm sorry you can't connect the dots between paying for something and signing a check.  :'(
Witness Craig trying in vain to do the backstroke...Paid for yes, checks signed by, no.
Make up your minds.

Of course they signed those checks.  With their blood and toil.  But then again I would never expect you to understand. 
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7472 on: February 18, 2021, 12:38:25 pm »

So what do you call an enterprise initiated, directed and controlled by the government, utilizing the citizens' common resources?

...wait for it...

Oh Oh!!!  I KNOW!!  SOCIALISM!!!! 

(did I do that right?)
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7473 on: February 18, 2021, 12:39:49 pm »

If we had relied on private industry to get it done, we wouldn't have gotten there by the end of the decade like Kennedy challenged us to do. It's 50 years later and private industry still hasn't gotten us there.
NASA is like the military. Civilians aren't interested in driving a tank, flying a F-16 or sailing on a destroyer. They want an F-150 Ford, Piper Cub and a little fishing boat to catch bass. So Private Industry isn't going to spend the money unless there's a payoff.  Since the government wants to buy tanks, so private industry makes them.  But they're a waste of money, as Democrats and leftists have reminded us for years.  They strain the government budget and take money better spent on civilian goods and services like vaccines and medical care.  Of course, we put up with it because we have to defend ourselves from foreign socialists and others who would steal our stuff away from us.  Or we fly to the moon because it's an ego trip and feels good to brag. It also helps us project power in the world. 

But make no mistake.  All the money spent on these things is money not spent on civilian goods which lower our standard of living and puts us further in debt damaging our economy.

James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7474 on: February 18, 2021, 12:42:29 pm »

Don't get me wrong.  NASA is the only agency I like.  And I was willing to spend my money, taxpayer money, to support it.  But I was wrong. The fact we have private industry competing for rocket business, both to supply governments and private industry, is a better way to do it.

Like any other industry, competition, design creativity, etc. is magnified in private industry, just like the camera market. Can you imagine some government agency deciding on which format is the best, whether money should be spent on DSLRs, micro 4/3, or whatever?  We'd never be where we are if the government was setting the standards and specs.  Of course, government requirements such as for space and military have created a new science.  But they basically have set the standard of requirements and let private industry work out the design and methods to get there.

But... that's basically all regulations is??

Take CAFE for example.  I can guarantee you that without it, cars would not be as efficient or have emissions as low as they do right now, and everyone benefits.  Automakers employ more people for R&D, people get better, more efficient cars that go further and pollute less on a tank of gas, and so on.  What possible counter-benefit is there to NOT regulating as such?   When gas is cheap (because of federal subsidies, but I digress), there's no profit motive to efficiency, and that's *bad*.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7475 on: February 18, 2021, 12:43:01 pm »

That's a fair question.  So rather than calling me a liar, why don't you ask me to clarify it?   Isn't that a better way to communicate?  Things often get misunderstood on the web that eyeball-to-eyeball are easily understood.

As Ronald Reagan used to say, there you go again, this time with the accusation that I called you a liar.

I know you only answer the questions you want to answer, but you never did say who is the "we" that gets it? My question arises out of this statement you made:

No one converses literally except robots and people on the left who want to dismiss your beliefs by calling you a liar.  You're just playing the same game you play with Trump.  We get it.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 01:03:03 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7476 on: February 18, 2021, 12:43:23 pm »

What something sounds like to you is of no interest or consequence. I was providing the information for those who may have read your posts and wondered what stick you'd gotten the wrong end of.
From the article and video you linked too.  This is what AOC said:

""Millennials, and Gen z, and all these folks that come after us, are looking up and we're like 'the world will end in 12 years if we don't address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?'"

Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7477 on: February 18, 2021, 12:45:44 pm »

Oh Oh!!!  I KNOW!!  SOCIALISM!!!! 

(did I do that right?)

Well that works too...
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7478 on: February 18, 2021, 12:46:15 pm »

But... that's basically all regulations is??

Take CAFE for example.  I can guarantee you that without it, cars would not be as efficient or have emissions as low as they do right now, and everyone benefits.  Automakers employ more people for R&D, people get better, more efficient cars that go further and pollute less on a tank of gas, and so on.  What possible counter-benefit is there to NOT regulating as such?   When gas is cheap (because of federal subsidies, but I digress), there's no profit motive to efficiency, and that's *bad*.
What do regulations have to do with government or private industry building things? Non-sequitar.

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