US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Craig Lamson]

There was a really good interview with evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein (on the left) in which he gave a compelling argument on why the virus most like came out of the lab.  It was either with Dan Crenshaw or Joe Rogan (pretty sure it was with Crenshaw since I dont really listen to Rogan), but I cant find it.  He gave four reasons, but I can only really remember 2 of them. 

1.  It is extremely difficult for the virus to spread outside, which does not make sense.  Bats live outside and the virus would have evolved to spread outside.  It could be that it "forgot" how to spread outside from being in the lab. 

2.  It spread very easily inside.  This could have been an unintended consequence that the virus evolved from being in an interior space. 

The other two reasons were pretty technical and related to looking at the RNA and make up of the virus, which he, of course, had a pretty extensive knowledge of.  I cant remember exactly what they were, and cant find the interview right now.  It's too late to fish for it.

S

Clearly Joe, without supporting documentation and rebuttals of those who disagree, your post is most likely lies and disinformation and should be removed so the forum can remain pure to the leftist ideal.  How dare you.

/s

[William Walker]

#2297 is not my post.

  #2997!! (But you know what I meant!) Late-age dyslexia...!

[William Walker]

I didn't. You're mistaken, as usual. Re-read my posts.  I gave my opinions and possible scenarios.  Just like you.

In the Prologue of Bob Woodward's book "Rage" Matthew Pottinger (Deputy National Security Advisor) who knows China pretty well had a theory, that, of all the (negative China) theories regarding this matter makes a certain amount of sense to me. Quote:

“Pottinger had seen this movie before. He picked up the pace of his calls the weekend of January 24–26. “I came out of that weekend with my hair standing on end,” Pottinger said privately.

Several Chinese elites well connected with the Communist Party and government signaled that they thought China had a sinister goal: “China’s not going to be the only one to suffer from this.” If China was the only country to have mass infections on the scale of the 1918 pandemic, they would be at a massive economic disadvantage. It was a suspicion, but one held by the people who knew the regime best. A frightening possibility. Pottinger, a China hawk, was not ready to make a judgment on China’s intent one way or the other. Most likely the outbreak was accidental. But he was certain the United States was in for an unparalleled health onslaught. And China’s lack of transparency would only make it worse. With SARS the Chinese had egregiously concealed the outbreak of a dangerous new infectious disease for three months.”

Excerpt From: Bob Woodward. “Rage.” iBooks.

[Jeremy Roussak]

I don't trust or believe the Chinese Communist government.  Additionally the evidence is not all in.  Researchers have not figured out all the details or know the source for sure. 

That, Alan, typifies the difference in our approach to evidence. When it's lacking, I wait to reach conclusions. You, in contrast, make bold, factual assertions and wriggle like a worm on a hook when challenged. You've done it repeatedly. It's depressing.

Jeremy

[Jeremy Roussak]

What utter self-righteous crap.

If you are incapable of expressing yourself in decent language, Craig, be silent or be gone.

Jeremy

[Alan Goldhammer]

Here is one for Craig Lamson and I don't think it is fake news.  Remember all the noise about the closure of a Indiana Carrier plant and the moving of jobs to Mexico?  President Trump jawboned into this one and claimed he was saving lots of good jobs.  The facts present a different picture according to thisNew York Times story.

"This year alone, Indiana employers have sent more jobs to Mexico, China, India and other foreign countries than were saved at Carrier. Without headlines or presidential notice, at least 17 companies -- names like Vibracoustic, Molnlycke Health Care, Allura, Altex, Stanley Black & Decker, Dometic, Johnson Controls and Horizon Terra -- have closed plants or otherwise reduced employment in Indiana and moved jobs abroad, according to U.S. Department of Labor filings."

What an inconvenient fact for the President who is saving high paying jobs.

[Alan Goldhammer]

There was a really good interview with evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein (on the left) in which he gave a compelling argument on why the virus most like came out of the lab.  It was either with Dan Crenshaw or Joe Rogan (pretty sure it was with Crenshaw since I dont really listen to Rogan), but I cant find it.  He gave four reasons, but I can only really remember 2 of them. 

1.  It is extremely difficult for the virus to spread outside, which does not make sense.  Bats live outside and the virus would have evolved to spread outside.  It could be that it "forgot" how to spread outside from being in the lab. 

2.  It spread very easily inside.  This could have been an unintended consequence that the virus evolved from being in an interior space. 

The other two reasons were pretty technical and related to looking at the RNA and make up of the virus, which he, of course, had a pretty extensive knowledge of.  I cant remember exactly what they were, and cant find the interview right now.  It's too late to fish for it.

Unless you have a citation to this and not just someone mouthing off on a podcast, both of these points are not credulous.  Weintstein from what I read on Wikipedia is not a virologist. He no longer has an academic appointment in a science department.

[JoeKitchen]

Unless you have a citation to this and not just someone mouthing off on a podcast, both of these points are not credulous.  Weintstein from what I read on Wikipedia is not a virologist. He no longer has an academic appointment in a science department.

Ahhh that no long has "an academic appointment in a science department" is such a disqualifying observation.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention; I will from now on only pay attention to the academic elite science departments. 

I should have known better then to trust a loser, aka someone not working at a university. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Ahhh that no long has "an academic appointment in a science department" is such a disqualifying observation.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention; I will from now on only pay attention to the academic elite science departments. 

I should have known better then to trust a loser, aka someone not working at a university.

A degree does not automatically make one an expert in the same way simple ownership of a camera doesn't make one a professional photographer.  A PhD in evolutionary biology does not automatically make one a virology expert.  There is an awful lot of scientific evidence that points to SARS-CoV-2 as being a naturally occurring virus in the same way that SARS-CoV-1 and MERS were.  While you may find the lab origin story of SARS-CoV-2 appealing the preponderance of scientific evidence argues otherwise.

[JoeKitchen]

A degree does not automatically make one an expert in the same way simple ownership of a camera doesn't make one a professional photographer.  A PhD in evolutionary biology does not automatically make one a virology expert.  There is an awful lot of scientific evidence that points to SARS-CoV-2 as being a naturally occurring virus in the same way that SARS-CoV-1 and MERS were.  While you may find the lab origin story of SARS-CoV-2 appealing the preponderance of scientific evidence argues otherwise.

Listen, dont get upset, I was agreeing with you enlightened one.  Thanks for showing me the way to nirvana. 

It was foolish of me to question the preponderance of highly trustworthy scientific evidence coming from an oppressive communist regime that for a few months tried to suppress the story and have yet to allow any foreign scientists in to investigate.  I am sure, just like you imply, that all the scientific evidence coming out of China is reliable. 

[Craig Lamson]

If you are incapable of expressing yourself in decent language, Craig, be silent or be gone.

Jeremy

So what word does not qualify as decent?

[Craig Lamson]

Here is one for Craig Lamson and I don't think it is fake news.  Remember all the noise about the closure of a Indiana Carrier plant and the moving of jobs to Mexico?  President Trump jawboned into this one and claimed he was saving lots of good jobs.  The facts present a different picture according to thisNew York Times story.

"This year alone, Indiana employers have sent more jobs to Mexico, China, India and other foreign countries than were saved at Carrier. Without headlines or presidential notice, at least 17 companies -- names like Vibracoustic, Molnlycke Health Care, Allura, Altex, Stanley Black & Decker, Dometic, Johnson Controls and Horizon Terra -- have closed plants or otherwise reduced employment in Indiana and moved jobs abroad, according to U.S. Department of Labor filings."

What an inconvenient fact for the President who is saving high paying jobs.

Its not inconvenient at all.  It how the world works.

He did what he could do with Carrier, and I'll add thats just my opinion just the keep the forum censors happy. As for the rest, he does not own the companies and he can't make laws to keep them here without Congress. At least he makes some noise about the issue.  Obama told us this was the new normal.  BTW, Indiana currently has an unemployment rate of 6.2 with puts 19th in the US.

What to you suppose Joe Biden will do? 

[Alan Klein]

Anyway, tomorrow is going to be a great day, an tremendous day, a bigly day!  A day of billions and billions and billions and billions of smiles and, perhaps, frowns. 

It is going to be a day that re-enforces my vote of 4 years ago.

Amy Coney Barrett will be confirmed to the Supreme Court.

And just think, if Harry Reid did not nix the 60 vote threshold for judicial appointments, this could have never have happens.  Thanks Democrats! 

Sleep tight everyone.   

A Supreme Court Justice is supposed to follow the Constitution. I don't see what the big deal is.

[Robert Roaldi]

I don't watch 60 Minutes, or haven't in years, but this story is pretty bizarre, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-health-care-book-60-minutes_n_5f9649d4c5b69b2ad5ac1cd3. I mean, who does stuff like this? He scolds the interviewer for asking tough questions!  And why bring the book at all, do they think that people will be impressed by thick books?

[Craig Lamson]

I don't watch 60 Minutes, or haven't in years, but this story is pretty bizarre, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-health-care-book-60-minutes_n_5f9649d4c5b69b2ad5ac1cd3. I mean, who does stuff like this? He scolds the interviewer for asking tough questions!  And why bring the book at all, do they think that people will be impressed by thick books?

Here, watch the entire interview without the CBS edit. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NUl7qoedtw

[JoeKitchen]

A Supreme Court Justice is supposed to follow the Constitution. I don't see what the big deal is.

Well you and I know this, but for Dems, the court is a way to get legislation through by people who are not accountable to anyone.  So I celebrate at the fact we will ne increasing our conservative majority, making it harder for the SCOTUS to legislate from the bench. 

Take for instance Roe vs Wade.  Although I am pro-choice, the first two trimesters at least, I do not think the court should have made the ruling.  If the Dems wanted it so bad, they should have expended a little political capital and passed a law. 

Even now, everyone agrees the argument for Roe is pretty weak and likely to get overturned eventually.  The Dems have known this for 60+ years and they have not lifted a finger to get it into law.  The landmark civil rights rulings in the 1950s did not stop congress from passing the Civil Rights Bill, and it should not be any different here. 

Decisions like this should be discussed and voted upon by the people and their representatives, not dictated to us from those who are not accountable. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Here, watch the entire intervive without the CBS edit. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NUl7qoedtw

It makes President Trump look even worse!  This was really a dumb decision by the White House.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Its not inconvenient at all.  It how the world works.

He did what he could do with Carrier, and I'll add thats just my opinion just the keep the forum censors happy. As for the rest, he does not own the companies and he can't make laws to keep them here without Congress. At least he makes some noise about the issue.  Obama told us this was the new normal.  BTW, Indiana currently has an unemployment rate of 6.2 with puts 19th in the US.

What to you suppose Joe Biden will do?

I doubt he would lie to the American public.

[faberryman]

A Supreme Court Justice is supposed to follow the Constitution. I don't see what the big deal is.

I agree. The thing I can't understand is why there is about 1200 shelf feet of reported cases where the Supreme Court judges disagree with each other about what the Constitution means. And to top it off, sometimes they overturn precedent, and vote another way. It almost makes you think they are a bunch of idiots who can't make up their minds. I mean all you have to do is read it and the answer is obvious. Any dolt can do it.

[Alan Goldhammer]

 
It was foolish of me to question the preponderance of highly trustworthy scientific evidence coming from an oppressive communist regime that for a few months tried to suppress the story and have yet to allow any foreign scientists in to investigate.  I am sure, just like you imply, that all the scientific evidence coming out of China is reliable.

The evidence is coming from genetic researchers from all over the world.  You can continue to believe in conspiracy theories that are voiced on alternative media outlets as it is a free country.  You can chose to follow where the science leads us or not as that is your right as well.  You can even choose not to believe in evolution.