US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Peter McLennan]

Additionally the evidence is not all in.  Researchers have not figured out all the details or know the source for sure.

Then why do you state that you know the truth? 

[faberryman]

Frankly, I hope it wasn't planned because what else do they have up their sleeve?

Who knows? You can probably think up a lot of stuff if you have the time and inclination. I enjoy reading John Le Carre novels, for example.  He thinks up a lot of good stuff.

[Peter McLennan]

No you ARE being a dick.  There is nothing responsible in your constant attacks on Alan.  This is a forum of mostly old guys speaking their minds.  Alan posts what he feels or thinks. You surely don't have to read it or respond.  If you don't like someones opinion, just learn to live with it or you counter it with your own.    You are not the "Ministry of Truth".  Get over yourself.   If someone like Alan posts a link and you don't like it, refute it.

My "attacks on Alan" are attacks on lies and disinformation, not on Alan.  Opinions are one thing, outright lies another.

The thread title is INFORMED debate.  Informed debate is absent when lies and disinformation are present.

I make no attempt to be "The Ministry of Truth", that's your rhetorical invention. I do attempt to counter outright lies and disinformation when confronted with them.

A largely futile effort here, I suppose, but at least some of us make the attempt.  Otherwise, much like COVID-19, they persist and spread, to the detriment of us all.

For further information on this topic, see "The Social Dilemma" on NetFlix, referenced in another thread.

[Jeremy Roussak]

The thread title is INFORMED debate.

That ship sailed a long time ago, alas.

Jeremy

[Peter McLennan]

That ship sailed a long time ago, alas.

Jeremy

Unfortunately, yes. It's well below the horizon now, except for flat-earthers.

[Robert Roaldi]

Let me tell you a little story. I have this modest fish pond out back, and I noticed that some of my fish were going MIA. So I thought about it and concluded the fish were eating each other or something. Then I was sitting on the back porch one morning drinking my coffee, and low and behold this Great Blue Herron swooped down and began gobbling down my fish faster than people at the buffet at Golden Corral. So I read up on it and learned that if you put a fake Great Blue Herron next to your pond, the real Great Blue Herrons wouldn't come and eat your fish. My initial reaction was to think that Great Blue Herrons couldn't possible be that stupid, but then I remembered about how Scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz was out in the field scaring the birds away, so I ordered a fake Great Blue Herron from Amazon and put it by my pond, and I haven't lost a fish since. I don't know if coyotes are as dumb as Great Blue Herrons, but we might give it a try. I mean Amazon is pretty good about returns if the fake Roadrunners don't work. Now you could probably pick the analogy apart, but my point is not every stupid idea is stupid. A lot of people dismiss out of hand ideas about stuff they know nothing about. I know I'm no expert on coyotes and Roadrunners, except to the extent I have seen some cartoons on TV. Is that enough to make a judgment about the idea? I mean if Trump thought up this idea you would probably say he is a genius whether it worked or not.

Did you get any photos of the heron?

[Robert Roaldi]

Interesting move on Trump's part to instantly reclassify civil service employees to make them easier to fire, https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/24/opinions/trump-executive-order-reclassify-government-employees-schedule-f-garrett/index.html.

Keep taking apart the infrastructure, good plan. The middle class was torn apart in the last 40 years, another good plan. Well done, keep up the good work.

[faberryman]

Did you get any photos of the heron?

No. I don't have a long telephoto lens, and I was so excited there was no way I could have held the camera steady anyway. Maybe I ought to research long lenses and whatever those steadying devices are called. Any idea where?

My wife does this project where she keeps track of which kind and how many birds she sees in the backyard, and then submits her findings to this ornithology research group which does all manner of stuff with everybody's data. I kind of give her report the once over and noted that we get the same nine or thirteen birds every year, and the world has way more than enough pictures of them. So I just drink coffee when I'm on the back porch.

[Craig Lamson]

My "attacks on Alan" are attacks on lies and disinformation, not on Alan.  Opinions are one thing, outright lies another.

The thread title is INFORMED debate.  Informed debate is absent when lies and disinformation are present.

I make no attempt to be "The Ministry of Truth", that's your rhetorical invention. I do attempt to counter outright lies and disinformation when confronted with them.

A largely futile effort here, I suppose, but at least some of us make the attempt.  Otherwise, much like COVID-19, they persist and spread, to the detriment of us all.

For further information on this topic, see "The Social Dilemma" on NetFlix, referenced in another thread.

What utter self-righteous crap.  Unless you know Alan is knowingly and intentionally mistating some “fact” you seem to think exists he is surely not lying and surely expressing his opinion.  The same for “disinformation”.   If you believe Alan is doing either, then prove it.  Or are you lying and spreading disinformation?  After all this exercise in personal expression has such a major impact on public opinion.  /s.   Right up there with CNN. 

Here’s my informed opinion.  Stuff a sock in it.

[Robert Roaldi]

No. I don't have a long telephoto lens, and I was so excited there was no way I could have held the camera steady anyway. Maybe I ought to research long lens and whatever those steadying devices are called. Any idea where?

My wife does this project where she keeps track of which and how many birds she sees in the backyard, and then submits her findings to this ornithology research group which does all manner of stuff with everybody's data. I kind of give her report the once over and note that we get the same nine or thirteen birds every year, and the world has way more than enough pictures of them. So I just drink coffee when I'm on the back porch.

They do those birds count studies all over the place. We always find out about them around here after they're over or we'd participate. We have a Cooper's Hawk that visits our back yards almost every spring and autumn, seems to be one of his stops. It occasionally takes out a grackle, seems to be its favourite food.

[faberryman]

They do those birds count studies all over the place. We always find out about them around here after they're over or we'd participate. We have a Cooper's Hawk that visits our back yards almost every spring and autumn, seems to be one of his stops. It occasionally takes out a grackle, seems to be its favourite food.

We have a couple of kinds of hawks around here but we see them when we are out walking. We did see a hawk sweep through our backyard and snatch a bird off our feeder once, That was pretty awesome.

[Alan Klein]

Then why do you state that you know the truth? 

I didn't. You're mistaken, as usual. Re-read my posts.  I gave my opinions and possible scenarios.  Just like you. 

[Alan Klein]

My "attacks on Alan" are attacks on lies and disinformation, not on Alan.  Opinions are one thing, outright lies another.

The thread title is INFORMED debate.  Informed debate is absent when lies and disinformation are present.

I make no attempt to be "The Ministry of Truth", that's your rhetorical invention. I do attempt to counter outright lies and disinformation when confronted with them.

A largely futile effort here, I suppose, but at least some of us make the attempt.  Otherwise, much like COVID-19, they persist and spread, to the detriment of us all.

For further information on this topic, see "The Social Dilemma" on NetFlix, referenced in another thread.

Just like the left and Democrats you want to silence people up who you don't agree with. People like you want to do away with the 1st Amendment and decide what Truth is. It's scary.

[Robert Roaldi]

Just like the left and Democrats you want to silence people up who you don't agree with. People like you want to do away with the 1st Amendment and decide what Truth is. It's scary.

Like the way Trump tries to shut Fauci up, you mean.

[Craig Lamson]

Like the way Trump tries to shut Fauci up, you mean.

Fauci speaks his mind.

[Alan Klein]

Like the way Trump tries to shut Fauci up, you mean.

Trump has pretty much given him the space to say what he says.  But having said that, free speech doesn't include the right of employees to say what they want.  Just like ball team managers can quash political speech on the ball field.  Free speech is reserved to the public market. If you publicly bad mouth the company you work for, it's legal for the boss to fire you.  There are some constraints.  But the employer has a lot of power in this realm. The CDC's boss is the president. He may not be able to fire you due to Federal law.  But he could send you to the Arctic Circle in Alaska during the winter to study virus among the Inuit people.

[Peter McLennan]

What utter self-righteous crap...Here’s my informed opinion.  Stuff a sock in it.

Oh, diddums.  Now, he's all angry.  "Triggered", I think the trumpies call it.

Truth hurts, eh?

[JoeKitchen]

There was a really good interview with evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein (on the left) in which he gave a compelling argument on why the virus most like came out of the lab.  It was either with Dan Crenshaw or Joe Rogan (pretty sure it was with Crenshaw since I dont really listen to Rogan), but I cant find it.  He gave four reasons, but I can only really remember 2 of them. 

1.  It is extremely difficult for the virus to spread outside, which does not make sense.  Bats live outside and the virus would have evolved to spread outside.  It could be that it "forgot" how to spread outside from being in the lab. 

2.  It spread very easily inside.  This could have been an unintended consequence that the virus evolved from being in an interior space. 

The other two reasons were pretty technical and related to looking at the RNA and make up of the virus, which he, of course, had a pretty extensive knowledge of.  I cant remember exactly what they were, and cant find the interview right now.  It's too late to fish for it.

[Craig Lamson]

Oh, diddums.  Now, he's all angry.  "Triggered", I think the trumpies call it.

Truth hurts, eh?

Oh no, I’m not angry at all.  When I’m angry you will know it. 

Do you have a link to prove your claim?  After all you stated it as a fact.

[JoeKitchen]

Anyway, tomorrow is going to be a great day, an tremendous day, a bigly day!  A day of billions and billions and billions and billions of smiles and, perhaps, frowns. 

It is going to be a day that re-enforces my vote of 4 years ago.

Amy Coney Barrett will be confirmed to the Supreme Court.

And just think, if Harry Reid did not nix the 60 vote threshold for judicial appointments, this could have never have happens.  Thanks Democrats! 

Sleep tight everyone.