Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 110421 times)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2840 on: October 23, 2020, 03:35:22 pm »

I started with that view, but the attraction has palled. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Jeremy
It only has about a week and a half to go!!!  What will we do?  I guess move over to Kevin's site where there is actual good photo content.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2841 on: October 23, 2020, 03:36:17 pm »

Love how we've pivoted away from Hunter.

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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2842 on: October 23, 2020, 03:37:10 pm »

It's Republicans and Neocons like Sasse and Democrats like Biden who got America into disastrous foreign adventures like Vietnam and Iraq.   

How did Biden get us into Iraq?  Was not this a decision by the Bush II administration? 
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2843 on: October 23, 2020, 03:41:19 pm »

I know right.  It's almost as bad as telling business owners they are going to have to shut down again while raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

You're not saying that it's ok not to provide emergency relief to districts that didn't vote for you, are you?  You can't be saying that, can you? 
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2844 on: October 23, 2020, 03:41:23 pm »


Biden, last night, pushed more lock downs.  Trump pushed us returning to normalcy.  The former is just not working anymore.
Did you look at the COVID-19 infection level yesterday?  Second highest day of the pandemic!  You also should watch the documentary on Hulu, 'Totally Under Control' for a good view of how well the President handled this.  It has nothing to do with lockdowns other than to keep the hospitals open.  ICU beds in parts of Wisconsin and ND are at capacity right now.  this could have turned out differently had President Trump forcefully embrace the prudent public health measures.  Lockdowns were just a stopgap measure.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2845 on: October 23, 2020, 03:44:17 pm »

Love how we've pivoted away from Hunter.
that's because there was never anything there other than a Giuliani forgery folder.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2846 on: October 23, 2020, 03:52:30 pm »

You are missing the whole geopolitical reason for this.  It's basically an anti-Iran and anti-Russian move by these countries that are recognizing Israel.  In the great cosmic scheme of things it is pretty close to being meaningless.  there won't be much if any trade with Israel and most Israeli tourism will continue to be to Europe and the US.  Disclaimer: my sister and her family live in Israel along with a number of cousins and friends.  Nobody is planning trips to the countries that have recognized Israel.  Israel is also natural gas independent these days with a bunch of Mediterranean fields and Chevron just bought a small company that has oil fields in that region with joint development agreements with Israel.  Not everything is earthshaking news.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for bringing some sanity, and even facts, to the conversation.

Some people want to give Trump a Nobel Prize for brokering a deal between McDonalds and Wendy's to settle a long running dispute about who gets to sell Frosties and who gets to sell apple pies. Peace in our time.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I think the agreements between Israel and these other countries are more important than a deal between McDonalds and Wendy's. I am exaggerating for emphasis. Trump does it all the time, so it must be okay.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 04:07:08 pm by faberryman »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2847 on: October 23, 2020, 03:59:59 pm »

You are missing the whole geopolitical reason for this.  It's basically an anti-Iran and anti-Russian move by these countries that are recognizing Israel. In the great cosmic scheme of things it is pretty close to being meaningless.  there won't be much if any trade with Israel and most Israeli tourism will continue to be to Europe and the US.  Disclaimer: my sister and her family live in Israel along with a number of cousins and friends.  Nobody is planning trips to the countries that have recognized Israel.  Israel is also natural gas independent these days with a bunch of Mediterranean fields and Chevron just bought a small company that has oil fields in that region with joint development agreements with Israel.  Not everything is earthshaking news.

Nooooooo shit Sherlock!

But you know what, this anti-Iran sentiment existed long long before Trump came into office, but all of the typical politicians (like Biden and Obama and Bush) had their heads so far the asses of the Palestinians, they could not see straight.  They had more shit in their eyes then the Sandman could deliver in a dozen lifetimes worth of naps. 

And that is the reason Trump got this done.  He did not buy into the "respected opinion" of the situation on the ground, but instead looked for something else to unite everyone around. 

Now perhaps if Iran dwindles, the deals will go away, and maybe this wont be of any real consequence other then peace (which, from your retort, must not mean much to you), or perhaps those countries will start to prosper and realize their alliance with the only advanced country in the Middle East is the main reason for it. 

But even if not, is it not a good thing to be able to rest easy knowing your neighbors wont invade, even if nothing else? 

I feel like we have a great deal of ease in our lives knowing neither Canada nor Mexico will attack us.  Do the Jews not deserve the same? 

The Jews are an incredible people and one of the main reasons for Western enlightenment with their constant inquisitive nature and arguing.  After all, is'nt the line "if you have 4 Jews at a table, you'll have 5 opinions?"  If the Arab states start emulate this, they could very well be onto an enlightenment of their own. 

And if so, would that not be good. 

These are hug deals, especially after 26 years of nothing, but you write it off like the typical guy with TDS. 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 04:07:11 pm by JoeKitchen »
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2848 on: October 23, 2020, 04:00:06 pm »

Did you look at the COVID-19 infection level yesterday?  Second highest day of the pandemic!  You also should watch the documentary on Hulu, 'Totally Under Control' for a good view of how well the President handled this.  It has nothing to do with lockdowns other than to keep the hospitals open.  ICU beds in parts of Wisconsin and ND are at capacity right now.  this could have turned out differently had President Trump forcefully embrace the prudent public health measures.  Lockdowns were just a stopgap measure.

We are out of ICU beds locally here too, and we've got more hospitals than fast food restaurants. It's understandable; they are a lot more profitable. But hey, I like having an ER available close by as much as the next guy, so I'm not complaining. That goes for ICU beds too.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 04:10:45 pm by faberryman »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2849 on: October 23, 2020, 04:04:54 pm »

You're not saying that it's ok not to provide emergency relief to districts that didn't vote for you, are you?  You can't be saying that, can you?

Of course not! 

I am also not saying a $15 minimum wage during a pandemic while stating we may need to shut down your business is a good idea either, unlike Biden.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2850 on: October 23, 2020, 04:05:15 pm »

Nooooooo shit Sherlock!

But you know what, this anti-Iran sentiment existed long long before Trump came into office, but all of the typical politicians (like Biden and Obama and Bush) had their heads so far the asses of the Palestinians, they could not see straight.  They had more shit in their eyes then the Sandman could deliver in a dozen lifetimes worth of naps. 

And that is the reason Trump got this done.  He did not buy into the "respected opinion" of the situation on the ground, but instead looked for something else to unite everyone around. 

Now perhaps if Iran dwindles, the deals will go away, and maybe this wont be of any real consequence other then peace (which, from your retort, must not mean much to you), or perhaps those countries will start to prosper and realize their alliance with the only advanced country in the Middle East is the main reason for it. 

The Jews are an incredible people and one of the main reasons for Western enlightenment with their constant inquisitive nature and arguing.  After all, is'nt the line "if you have 4 Jews at a table, you'll have 5 opinions?"  If the Arab states start emulate this, they could very well be onto an enlightenment of their own. 

And if so, would that not be good. 

These are hug deals, especially after 26 years of nothing, but you write it off like the typical guy with TDS.

Somehow I don't think you would be so effervescent if Biden had brokered these deals and not Trump.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 09:27:47 pm by faberryman »
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LesPalenik

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2851 on: October 23, 2020, 04:05:35 pm »


And that is the reason Trump got this done.  He did not buy into the "respected opinion" of the situation on the ground, but instead looked for something else to unite everyone around. 
 

Trump AND Looking To Unite Everybody? In the same sentence?
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JoeKitchen

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2852 on: October 23, 2020, 04:09:08 pm »

Somehow I don't think you would be so effervescent if Biden had brokered these deal rather than Trump.

I certainly would not be promoting it, but would at least acknowledge the importance of them as game changing. 

But you guys with TDS are so anti-Trump you cant see the forest for the trees.  You cant give him a win, which he clearly deserves here.  I would have given Obama or Biden that win if they even accomplished half of what Trump has in the Middle East. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2853 on: October 23, 2020, 04:11:26 pm »

Trump AND Looking To Unite Everybody? In the same sentence?

This is the sentiment as to why liberals so often fail at foreign policy.  Negotiating from a point of strength is how you get things done internationally, especially with rivals. 

Appeasing for a "peace of our time" is how you start world wars. 
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2854 on: October 23, 2020, 04:52:29 pm »

I certainly would not be promoting it, but would at least acknowledge the importance of them as game changing.

I remember from my physics course in high school this law that said for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The thing is that in these discussions, when your write a really effervescent post about one of Trump's accomplishments, I am likely to write an equally anti-effervescent response. Of course, your response to my response is even more effervescent, and my response to your response to my response is even more anti-effervescent. Eventually, we are both cranked up to about eleven, and exasperated, you tell me I have TDS. The thing is I don't have an acronym to call you, so the whole process is unfair. Perhaps if you checked your enthusiasm initially, I wouldn't ultimately have TDS, and we would all get along better. So basically what I am saying is that it is all your fault. The remedy is that when you write about one of Trump's accomplishments, pretend it is one of Biden's accomplishments. That way you can show some restraint, and everything will go more smoothly. And you might even find I agreed with you occasionally. I'd probably be willing to give Trump some blue ribbons, if you weren't always asking for eight foot trophies. Just an idea.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 05:48:11 pm by faberryman »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2855 on: October 23, 2020, 05:09:01 pm »

You mean we shoot ourselves first and then go through the voter fraud Proud Boy scenario?

Well that is yet another option.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2856 on: October 23, 2020, 05:09:04 pm »

So why all the lying by Trump? It is simple, he is a pathological liar. That's what he does. Left is right, down is up, and stop is go. You've got a list of excuses as long as your arm for every time Trump lies about stuff, and just recite it chapter and verse anytime someone calls him out on it. You seem to be a bright guy, so it is incomprehensible to me that you can actually believe all the stuff you post in defense of him. Just tell people what you can do and do it. It's really not that hard. The vast majority of people do their very best to do it every day because they are good and decent. And then there's Trump.
Your response to my post that Pelosi is playing political games and hurting Americans out of work is to call Trump a liar.  Your response is pathological. 

Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2857 on: October 23, 2020, 05:13:15 pm »

Love how we've pivoted away from Hunter.

We can bring it back.  Boblewhats his name was asked by the FBI for an interview today.  Scuttlebutt is they are using Hunters laptop in a money laundering investigation.

Oh and and the bobble guy gave lots of money to Dems. 

Joe might have been right, he didn't take a cent from any country, perhaps Hunter did, he was the bagman. 

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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2858 on: October 23, 2020, 05:15:24 pm »

Nooooooo shit Sherlock!

But you know what, this anti-Iran sentiment existed long long before Trump came into office, but all of the typical politicians (like Biden and Obama and Bush) had their heads so far the asses of the Palestinians, they could not see straight.  They had more shit in their eyes then the Sandman could deliver in a dozen lifetimes worth of naps. 

And that is the reason Trump got this done.  He did not buy into the "respected opinion" of the situation on the ground, but instead looked for something else to unite everyone around. 

Now perhaps if Iran dwindles, the deals will go away, and maybe this wont be of any real consequence other then peace (which, from your retort, must not mean much to you), or perhaps those countries will start to prosper and realize their alliance with the only advanced country in the Middle East is the main reason for it. 

But even if not, is it not a good thing to be able to rest easy knowing your neighbors wont invade, even if nothing else? 

I feel like we have a great deal of ease in our lives knowing neither Canada nor Mexico will attack us.  Do the Jews not deserve the same? 

The Jews are an incredible people and one of the main reasons for Western enlightenment with their constant inquisitive nature and arguing.  After all, is'nt the line "if you have 4 Jews at a table, you'll have 5 opinions?"  If the Arab states start emulate this, they could very well be onto an enlightenment of their own. 

And if so, would that not be good. 

These are hug deals, especially after 26 years of nothing, but you write it off like the typical guy with TDS.

Maybe the elephant in the room as it regards the Middle East is oil.  We are not held hostage by their oil any longer.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2859 on: October 23, 2020, 05:28:31 pm »

You are missing the whole geopolitical reason for this.  It's basically an anti-Iran and anti-Russian move by these countries that are recognizing Israel.  In the great cosmic scheme of things it is pretty close to being meaningless. there won't be much if any trade with Israel and most Israeli tourism will continue to be to Europe and the US.  Disclaimer: my sister and her family live in Israel along with a number of cousins and friends.  Nobody is planning trips to the countries that have recognized Israel.  Israel is also natural gas independent these days with a bunch of Mediterranean fields and Chevron just bought a small company that has oil fields in that region with joint development agreements with Israel.  Not everything is earthshaking news.
No one is missing that geopolitics is the reason. After all, who thinks that Arabs suddenly started to love Jews and thought it would be nice to have relations with them?  Politics makes strange bedfellows. Diplomatic relations between countries always have benefits for the countries involved. 

To argue it's meaningless is crazy. For 70 years, there have been four wars between Arabs and Jews.  The world suffered through the oil crisis of 1973.  I'm sure you remember the long lines of cars lining up for gasoline on alternate days of the week due to shortages.  The world always held their breath that another war would break out and drag the world into it.

Now there's a chance for peace in the ME, at least between Israel and Arabs. Jews won't have to stand guard around the clock always being ready to run into air raid shelters.  Tanks can pull back from borders.  People will be able to sleep at night without worrying there will be a raid.  For you to call the movements towards peace "meaningless" smacks of American politics because you oppose Trump and are trying to diminish this great accomplishment because of the election.  The press ignores it because they're anti-Trump.  Trump accomplished what previous presidents for 30 years since Egypt and Jordan made peace with Israel.  If Obama had done it, you and everyone would demand he get another Nobel. 
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