Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 111180 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2820 on: October 23, 2020, 01:43:30 pm »

And another ...

Sudan to join UAE, Bahrain in recognizing Israel

Biden just cant get in there any quicker and bring back a Middle East normalcy of wars, terrorist attacks, Iran becoming a nuclear power, putting us dependent on the S.A. by banning fracking here, you know, just sending the whole region back to hell. 

I know some will try to down play this, but keep in mind it was in Sudan that the Arab world met in 1967 to agree to never have peace with Israel.
Maybe Obama will give him his Nobel Peace prize.  After all, he never really earned it. 

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2821 on: October 23, 2020, 01:43:39 pm »

It's the unemployed who have not gotten any more government assitance (as smartly planned by Nancy Pelosi) who are Trump's problem.  It's hard to stay loyal when you can't pay your rent.

I thought Trump gave the unemployed a bunch of money and put a moratorium on evictions through the end of the year? I saw him scribbling his name with a sharpie on a bunch of papers that had gold foil stars and ribbons a couple of months ago. I remember you telling me all about it.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2822 on: October 23, 2020, 01:44:16 pm »

The increasing covid numbers don't bode well for Trump. Unless the virus disappears magically before Nov 3.

It's a simple response, what has effected your life more negatively, the virus or our response to the virus? 

For most, I would suspect it is the response.  I was shooting in Jersey City Wednesday (and yes, the driving still sucks) and got into a conversation with someone who I am pretty sure is a Dem.  He brought up the lock downs, and how demoralizing they are, and went on and on.  He even mentioned he knows quite a few people who have moved to less stringent states and many more who will if they lock up again. 

Biden, last night, pushed more lock downs.  Trump pushed us returning to normalcy.  The former is just not working anymore. 
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2823 on: October 23, 2020, 01:47:55 pm »

Maybe Obama will give him his Nobel Peace prize.  After all, he never really earned it.

Is the Sudan even in the Middle East?  Perhaps if we extend it to the Greater Middle East, but that sounds like a marketing move.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 02:16:18 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2824 on: October 23, 2020, 01:48:13 pm »

If there is one thing we have learned, things can shift quickly in the Middle East. That meeting occurred only fifty three years ago. Seriously though, there is nothing wrong with picking off the low hanging fruit to gain momentum. I just wish I better understood what the US, Israel, and these other countries are getting out of the deal.
Typical anti Trump response.  Never give him any credit even if he deserves it.  It's not low hanging fruit.  The entire Arab world is going to get on board.  Once the Saudis agree, and they;re very close, every other country will agree as well.  I could just see the headlines.  "Trump Loses Election; Wins Nobel"

LesPalenik

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2825 on: October 23, 2020, 01:50:53 pm »

Typical anti Trump response.  Never give him any credit even if he deserves it.  It's not low hanging fruit.  The entire Arab world is going to get on board.  Once the Saudis agree, and they;re very close, every other country will agree as well.  I could just see the headlines.  "Trump Loses Election; Wins Nobel"

Sounds better than Winning Election But Losing Nobel.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2826 on: October 23, 2020, 01:51:17 pm »

Typical anti Trump response.  Never give him any credit even if he deserves it.  It's not low hanging fruit.  The entire Arab world is going to get on board.  Once the Saudis agree, and they;re very close, every other country will agree as well.  I could just see the headlines.  "Trump Loses Election; Wins Nobel"

Call me when the Palestinians sign on. It's not the Sudanese who are building the tunnels or lobbing the missiles. I mean, just to put a photographic twist on it, Alfred Eisenstaedt didn't take the picture of that sailor kissing a girl in Time Square on the day the Allies signed a peace treaty with Liechtenstein.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 02:03:00 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2827 on: October 23, 2020, 01:52:52 pm »

I'm guessing that you bought a carton of MAGA masks from the Trump Campaign store to give to your friends and neighbors.
My friends and neighbors don't wear masks.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2828 on: October 23, 2020, 01:55:20 pm »

I thought Trump gave the unemployed a bunch of money and put a moratorium on evictions through the end of the year? I saw him scribbling his name with a sharpie on a bunch of papers that had gold foil stars and ribbons a couple of months ago. I remember you telling me all about it.
No evictions but no additional money either.  Trump was right when he first pulled out of the negotiations.  He knew Nancy was jerking him around and she still is.  It's all about winning the election for her.  She doesn;t care about the people out of work other than using them to win. 

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2829 on: October 23, 2020, 01:59:20 pm »

No evictions but no additional money either.  Trump was right when he first pulled out of the negotiations.  He knew Nancy was jerking him around and she still is.  It's all about winning the election for her.  She doesn;t care about the people out of work other than using them to win.

I thought Trump gave the unemployed $400, well only $300 but whose counting, in monthly federal unemployment benefits through the end of the year. At least that is what I remember him saying from a place of honor in the Nineteenth Hole at his golf club in Bedminster.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 02:07:27 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2830 on: October 23, 2020, 02:07:31 pm »

Call me when the Palestinians sign on. It's not the Sudanese who are building the tunnels or lobbing the missiles.
The chance for war in the Middle East decreases immensely as Arab nations make peace with Israel.  That's good for the whole world. The Palestinians will lose moral and financial support from the Arab nations.  They'll still get support from Iran.  But their bargaining power is quickly evaporating.  They should have made the deal before.  The longer they wait, the less they'll get.  The problem is the dispute between the PLO and Hamas.  Unless they get their act together with each other first, then make a deal with Israel afterwards, time and history will pass them by.  Arafat did the same thing decades ago.  He made a deal but didn't execute hurting his people. History repeats. It's a shame for the Palestinians.   

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2831 on: October 23, 2020, 02:11:02 pm »

I thought Trump gave the unemployed $400, well only $300 but whose counting, in monthly federal unemployment benefits through the end of the year. At least that is what I remember him saying from a place of honor in the Nineteenth Hole at his golf club in Bedminster.
I believe that's all ended but I could be wrong.

Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2832 on: October 23, 2020, 02:12:05 pm »

Let's hope for the best. Nothing like that happen for a while. We might have to go through that whole voter fraud Proud Boys scenario first

You might want to consider this the other way around as well. Just sayin
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2833 on: October 23, 2020, 02:14:47 pm »

You might want to consider this the other way around as well. Just sayin

You mean we shoot ourselves first and then go through the voter fraud Proud Boy scenario?
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2834 on: October 23, 2020, 02:18:10 pm »

I believe that's all ended but I could be wrong.

I think it ended because Trump ran out of money and couldn't keep his promise. You probably think it was an honest mistake. I think Trump knew he didn't have enough money to take it through December and just lied about it, as usual. It would fit a pattern. For starters, he lied about it being $400/month. It was only $300/month. The other $100 was to come from the states. Except that he never asked and the states never agreed. Some states agreed after the fact, but there were a lot of states that didn't have the money, and even if they did, couldn't modify their unemployment benefit software to make it work in time if at all. It was all smoke and mirrors. I mean really, I don't care if you think Nancy Pelosi is the devil incarnate, it is not her fault that Trump lied and said he was going to send the unemployed $400/month through December, and then broke his promise.

What's the deal. Can't you remember anything? It's like you go to bed at night, and when you wake up, your mind is a tabula rasa?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 03:34:34 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2835 on: October 23, 2020, 02:28:41 pm »

I think it ended because Trump ran out of money and couldn't keep his promise. You probably think it was an honest mistake. I think Trump knew he didn't have enough money to take it through December and just lied about it, as usual. It would fit a pattern.
He did what he could as president.  Congress legislates funding, not the president.  That's why Pelosi is sitting on it so those who are out of work blame Trump.  She's playing politics with their lives.  Hopefully, they blame the Democrats and not Trump. 

JoeKitchen

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2836 on: October 23, 2020, 02:33:53 pm »

The chance for war in the Middle East decreases immensely as Arab nations make peace with Israel.  That's good for the whole world. The Palestinians will lose moral and financial support from the Arab nations.  They'll still get support from Iran.  But their bargaining power is quickly evaporating.  They should have made the deal before.  The longer they wait, the less they'll get.  The problem is the dispute between the PLO and Hamas.  Unless they get their act together with each other first, then make a deal with Israel afterwards, time and history will pass them by.  Arafat did the same thing decades ago.  He made a deal but didn't execute hurting his people. History repeats. It's a shame for the Palestinians.

I thought Hoffer in 1968 put it best in how so many have a distorted view of Israel and the Middle East:

“The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews. Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks and Algeria a million Frenchman.

Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese and no one says a word about refugees. But in the case of Israel , the displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees. Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single one.

Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis. Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious, it must sue for peace.

Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world. Other nations, when they are defeated, survive and recover but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed. Had Nasser triumphed last June [1967], he would have wiped Israel off the map, and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews.

No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on. There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or when two Blacks are executed in Rhodesia . But, when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one demonstrated against him. The Swedes, who were ready to break off diplomatic relations with America because of what we did in Vietnam , did not let out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews. They sent Hitler choice iron ore, and ball bearings, and serviced his troops in Norway .

The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources.

Yet at this moment, Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us. And one has only to imagine what would have happened last summer [1967] had the Arabs and their Russian backers won the war, to realize how vital the survival of Israel is to America and the West in general.

I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish, the Holocaust will be upon us all.”
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 02:37:54 pm by JoeKitchen »
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2837 on: October 23, 2020, 02:43:27 pm »

He did what he could as president.  Congress legislates funding, not the president.  That's why Pelosi is sitting on it so those who are out of work blame Trump.  She's playing politics with their lives.  Hopefully, they blame the Democrats and not Trump.

So why all the lying by Trump? It is simple, he is a pathological liar. That's what he does. Left is right, down is up, and stop is go. You've got a list of excuses as long as your arm for every time Trump lies about stuff, and just recite it chapter and verse anytime someone calls him out on it. You seem to be a bright guy, so it is incomprehensible to me that you can actually believe all the stuff you post in defense of him. Just tell people what you can do and do it. It's really not that hard. The vast majority of people do their very best to do it every day because they are good and decent. And then there's Trump.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 03:11:45 pm by faberryman »
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2838 on: October 23, 2020, 02:48:08 pm »

I thought Hoffer in 1968 put it best in how so many have a distorted view of Israel and the Middle East:

...


Hoffer is Jewish. What would you expect him to say? I am certainly not suggesting that I disagree with everything he says, but there are other views to consider. The world is a complex place.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 03:19:52 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2839 on: October 23, 2020, 03:33:36 pm »

And another ...

Sudan to join UAE, Bahrain in recognizing Israel

Biden just cant get in there any quicker and bring back a Middle East normalcy of wars, terrorist attacks, Iran becoming a nuclear power, putting us dependent on the S.A. by banning fracking here, you know, just sending the whole region back to hell. 

I know some will try to down play this, but keep in mind it was in Sudan that the Arab world met in 1967 to agree to never have peace with Israel.
You are missing the whole geopolitical reason for this.  It's basically an anti-Iran and anti-Russian move by these countries that are recognizing Israel.  In the great cosmic scheme of things it is pretty close to being meaningless.  there won't be much if any trade with Israel and most Israeli tourism will continue to be to Europe and the US.  Disclaimer: my sister and her family live in Israel along with a number of cousins and friends.  Nobody is planning trips to the countries that have recognized Israel.  Israel is also natural gas independent these days with a bunch of Mediterranean fields and Chevron just bought a small company that has oil fields in that region with joint development agreements with Israel.  Not everything is earthshaking news.
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