US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[chez]

Oh stop it.  Why is it that you say you can't trust the government to do anything right but now claim that Trump's going for a drive will protect the country from its enemies?

Well if Trump was so concerned about protecting the country and its citizens...a simple 50 cents face mask would have done wonders. He then would not need to be paraded around to show the world he is still ticking...sort of like what North Korea needed to do.

[William Walker]

The photo op shows the world the US still has an effective president and Commander-in-chief in charge of the government who can respond to any threat to America or its allies. The job of the president's doctors and secret service is to be near the president to defend him.  If they didn't want to take a chance of getting infected or risk being in the line of fire or even getting shot, they should have become landscape photographers.

Alan, I am from "the world"...and I see exactly the same thing James does....

(Added later)Everyone I speak to here in my gallery, including folks from other parts of the world all seem to see the same thing. (I had an American couple who told me they tell folks around here that they are Canadian because they are too embarrassed to call themselves "American".)

A woman has has just come in and - unprompted - said to my wife, "did you see this latest Trump nonsense? What an idiot he is..!"

[KLaban]

Quote from James Phillips, doctor of emergency medicine at George Washington University, who is an attending physician at Walter Reed.

Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential ‘drive-by’ just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die,” he wrote in a tweet.

“For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity.”

In a second tweet, Phillips added: “That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.”

[Alan Goldhammer]

The electoral system seems to have worked for over two hundred years.

1876, 2000, 2016 would argue that it has not worked well.

[James Clark]

The problem with that James is that those who flaunt wearing masks come from both sides of the aisle, and they make their choices regardless of who sits at the top.  For example the latest surge seems to come from students going back to college.  I might be mistaken, but I doubt most of these folks could give a rats behind what Trump says.  Humans will do what humans do. 

Added after I saw you edit... Sure it might make you feel better or even more responsible, but it’s a fools errand.  At least in my book.  Ymmv.

Yes, for sure.  I'm just as frustrated with idiot college students that are determined to go to bars and hold parties as I am with the rest of the people out there not helping.

As for being a fool's errand, yeah, you're probably right on that too, but I guess I draw a distinction between not being able to FIX the problem and actually *encouraging* behavior that worsens it.   

[Alan Klein]

Oh stop it.  Why is it that you say you can't trust the government to do anything right but now claim that Trump's going for a drive will protect the country from its enemies?

Sure it was for political purposes as well since this is election season. But showing the world the America government's chief executive is still capable of making decisions is very important.  When Kennedy was killed, Reagan shot, etc., the government always made similar displays of government in control.  You don't want a jerk leader someplace in the world taking advantage thinking he can get away with some petty larceny.

[Alan Klein]

So did feudalism, the monarchy, the Roman Empire, many of them for well over 200 years. That's not a measure of anything.

You're comparing the American constitution that has given more liberty to more people than other other system in history to Feudalism, monarchy and the Roman Empire? 

[faberryman]

Just curious what are you doing currently to change the behavior of othores?

About the only thing you can do is take care of yourself and set a good example for others. It is not worth risking being shot* for asking someone to wear a mask.

*or getting into a fist fight on an airplane

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fight-breaks-out-plane-after-passenger-refuses-wear-face-mask-n1242131

[James Clark]

You don't want a jerk leader someplace in the world taking advantage thinking he can get away with some petty larceny.

Too easy.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, surely you can see the difference between driving to work and going out to the bar. I think even you have enough intelligence to see there is a major difference here.

I've reported your personal attack to the moderator.

[Alan Klein]

Quote from James Phillips, doctor of emergency medicine at George Washington University, who is an attending physician at Walter Reed.

Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential ‘drive-by’ just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die,” he wrote in a tweet.

“For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity.”

In a second tweet, Phillips added: “That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.”

I think the doctor should stick to medicine not car design. The car is hermetically sealed only when they want to hermetically seal it like during an actual attack.  Normally, the vehicle would have to get fresh air so the occupants can breathe.  Otherwise they'd be breathing recirculated stale air that could also fog up all the windows like what happens in your car during the winter when the system is on recirculation.

[Alan Klein]

1876, 2000, 2016 would argue that it has not worked well.

It worked exactly like it was suppose to particularly in those elections - giving smaller states a larger edge in votes.  Our founders decided that the popular vote was not as good as the electoral system. They considered both ways and decided that the electoral system was the better way.  In fact, it was modified a couple of times by Amendment.  But never dropped for the popular vote.

Just because you don;t like it and favor a popular vote system doesn't mean it didn't work. It worked perfectly.  It just didn't work the way you prefer.  Certainly Hillary wasn't happy about it. 

[Alan Klein]

Too easy.

When Pres. Reagan was shot 70 days into his first term, Secretary of State Al Haig said that "He was in control" in order to calm things down.  While he's not constitutionally in the line of succession, he said it and caught a lot of flack for it.  Interestingly, VP Bush, who constitutionally was in line to run the country while Reagan was incapacitated due to the shooting said: "“I don’t recall being too exercised about what Haig said,” Bush told The News. “We understood what [he] was trying to do — namely, send a strong message to our adversaries around the world who might be tempted to take advantage of the chaos of that day.”

A leadership America gives adversaries too much freedom to make mischief.  Sending a strong message from the top, cools those designs.

If you're interested in the whole story, it makes an interesting read with a lot of tense action.
http://res.dallasnews.com/interactives/reagan-bush/

[Craig Lamson]

As for being a fool's errand, yeah, you're probably right on that too, but I guess I draw a distinction between not being able to FIX the problem and actually *encouraging* behavior that worsens it.

Just for the record, I don't encourage that behavior either. 

[faberryman]

And now, something on the lighter side:

Twitter users take over Proud Boys hashtag with photos of LGBTQ love

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/proud-boys-twitter-hashtag-photos-lgbtq-love/

Talk about messing with someone's mind. I guess the Proud Boys are just going to have to get some bigger guns to compensate.

[James Clark]

Just for the record, I don't encourage that behavior either.

I know.  You've been consistent from the start on mask-wearing, and it's appreciated (for whatever the opinion of a random internet person means )

[LesPalenik]

Everyone I speak to here in my gallery, including folks from other parts of the world all seem to see the same thing. (I had an American couple who told me they tell folks around here that they are Canadian because they are too embarrassed to call themselves "American".)

A friend of mine spends usually the summers in Ontario and winters in Florida. She has there a car with US licence plate. Usually she brings that car with her to Canada, but this year she left it there, because she was told about potential harrasment of US cars in Canada.

Some Canadians driving cars with U.S. licence plates say they've endured vandalism, harassment and even a minor assault from fellow Canadians convinced that they're Americans illegally in Canada.

Lisa Watt said she was harassed twice in Calgary last month — she believes because of her Texas licence plates. In one incident, she said a driver stopped right behind her car in a parking lot and glared at her, and in another situation, a driver tailgated her car for several kilometres before pulling up beside her and flipping her the finger.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-harassment-u-s-license-plates-banff-1.5634534

[LesPalenik]

The photo op shows the world the US still has an effective president and Commander-in-chief in charge of the government who can respond to any threat to America or its allies. The job of the president's doctors and secret service is to be near the president to defend him.  If they didn't want to take a chance of getting infected or risk being in the line of fire or even getting shot, they should have become landscape photographers.

If he had taken in that car also Melania, they would have scared even more American enemies.

[Alan Klein]

If he had taken in that car also Melania, they would have scared even more American enemies.

I think she's happy he's just out of the house for awhile.

[Jeremy Roussak]

In a second tweet, Phillips added: “That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.”

As I myself demonstrate with distressing frequency, possession of a medical degree is no bar to making silly comments. The car is hermetically sealed to prevent noxious agents from entering. That fact has nothing whatever to do with the atmosphere inside, which must therefore be provided either from compressed air cylinders or some kind of purification system. It certainly must be supplied from some source, or the occupants would be dead very quickly. It's nonsense to suggest that the sealing of the car has any relevance to the risk of Covid transmission: suppose, as an obviously extreme example, the entire atmosphere were changed every 5 seconds.

Jeremy