US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Alan Klein]

A sure road to dissolution of the federal republic if this continues.

The electoral system seems to have worked for over two hundred years.

[Alan Klein]

The one thing we know for sure is that old white men are one of President Trump's main source of support.

You're an old white guy.  Yet you don't support Trump.  What's the matter with you?

[degrub]

functioning brain cells ? 

[Alan Klein]

That's the exact and precise opposite of the truth. C'mon, think! With the electoral college, there is no motivation for a candidate to campaign in a state that is sure to go for him or for his opponent. With the EC, 10,000 more GOP votes in NY, or 10,000 more Dem votes in Oklahoma, won't make one whit of difference. With a popular vote, 10,000 votes will matter no matter where they come from. As it is, candidates DO NOT spend time trying to please "big state needs," but rather to win votes in swing states.


Sez who? There's no reason we cannot have a pop vote that requires a majority. And no one is suggesting a parliamentary system.

Yet again, non-issues. We can require a pop vote majority or we can use a ranked voting system. But you are right in that we certainly don't want a leader who won only a minority of votes. Like now.

With a popular vote, candidates won't visit or try to satisfy little states' issues.  They'll spend all their time trying to increase the popular vote in big city areas in the big states.  So they'll spend all their time in California, Texas, NY, FLorida, etc.  The other issue is if you're doing away with the electoral system because of some perceive unfairness, than you have to eliminate the Senate. Why should little states with a few people have two senators when huge California only has two senators?  The Senate is just as unfair. 

If you pass a constitutional amendment requiring a majority of the popular vote,  there will be many occasions where you won't get it. Any time there are third party candidates, there's a big chance no one will get a majority of the popular vote.  That happened in 2016 when Hillary got 48%, Trump 46% and others 6%.  However, the electoral vote system eliminated third party votes.  So the electoral vote always gives one person a majority.    The only reason a Parliamentary system works is because the smaller parties make deals with the larger ones.  You can't do that in a popular vote system when you're only counting votes.  There are no negotiations after the fact.

Trump did not win with a minority of votes.  You just refuse to accept the Constitution.  He won with 57% of the electoral votes.  That's what counts.  Popular vote doesn't mean anything.

[LesPalenik]

Do you guys actually spend any real meaningful time watching Fox?

Not really, mainly because of their loud and off-putting music.

[James Clark]

My job, and yours is to make the choices that best suit you and yours.  Period.

:/

[Craig Lamson]

:/

What are you thinking about?

[Alan Klein]

Latest on Trump. He is having a Driving Miss Daisy moment. Apparently he is taking a car ride around the neighborhood waving at people. For the love of God.

If Obama did it, the left press would compliment him how he's showing the American public he still doing his job as a stalwart president.  Security analysts would remind us that by showing his strength even under duress, potential and real adversaries would be less likely try something foolish while the Commander-in-chief is in the hospital recovering knowing he still capable of responding to any threat to America or our allies.  But because the president is Trump, what presidents normally do during these circumstances is being mocked by the press. 

[James Clark]

Is he still contagious?

According to everything we seem to know, and assuming the timeline we’ve been provided, almost certainly.

[James Clark]

What are you thinking about?

Wondering how simple life must be when one is wholly unconcerned with the impact one has on his/her fellow citizens.

[Alan Klein]

So.. willfully and knowingly exposing the secret service guys who have to drive him around so he can have a photo op?  Sounds about right.  (What an asshole.)

The photo op shows the world the US still has an effective president and Commander-in-chief in charge of the government who can respond to any threat to America or its allies. The job of the president's doctors and secret service is to be near the president to defend him.  If they didn't want to take a chance of getting infected or risk being in the line of fire or even getting shot, they should have become landscape photographers.

[Craig Lamson]

Wondering how simple life must be when one is wholly unconcerned with the impact one has on his/her fellow citizens.

I’m doing my part. I can’t control what you or anyone else does.  Nor can I change it, even though I would prefer everyone did their part as well.

Just curious what are you doing currently to change the behavior of othores?

[Alan Klein]

Wondering how simple life must be when one is wholly unconcerned with the impact one has on his/her fellow citizens.

Most people are concerned about family members before others. I'm sure you put them first as well and rightly so.  That doesn't mean we can't care for others.  However, if you put others before those you're responsible to protect, your loyalty is misplaced.

[Robert Roaldi]

The electoral system seems to have worked for over two hundred years.

So did feudalism, the monarchy, the Roman Empire, many of them for well over 200 years. That's not a measure of anything.

[Robert Roaldi]

The photo op shows the world the US still has an effective president and Commander-in-chief in charge of the government who can respond to any threat to America or its allies. The job of the president's doctors and secret service is to be near the president to defend him.  If they didn't want to take a chance of getting infected or risk being in the line of fire or even getting shot, they should have become landscape photographers.

What Kool-Aid flavour do you like most?   

[Robert Roaldi]

If Obama did it, the left press would compliment him how he's showing the American public he still doing his job as a stalwart president.  Security analysts would remind us that by showing his strength even under duress, potential and real adversaries would be less likely try something foolish while the Commander-in-chief is in the hospital recovering knowing he still capable of responding to any threat to America or our allies.  But because the president is Trump, what presidents normally do during these circumstances is being mocked by the press.

Oh stop it.  Why is it that you say you can't trust the government to do anything right but now claim that Trump's going for a drive will protect the country from its enemies?

[James Clark]

I’m doing my part. I can’t control what you or anyone else does.  Nor can I change it, even though I would prefer everyone did their part as well.

Then I guess what I would hope is that you would at least not brush off/excuse/rationalize someone with huge influence who is modeling behavior that puts you, me and the entire citizenry at least nominally at risk.

Just curious what are you doing currently to change the behavior of othores?

I've spoken up when someone around me is flaunting their unwillingness to wear a mask in situations where they are putting others at risk (and where the private business is requiring people to wear masks).  Haven't been shot yet, thankfully, though one woman did tell me to fuck off.   .  I'll also be making a call to my house rep's office tomorrow because he's the kind of jerk that actively refused to wear a mask on a commercial flight this weekend.  Minimal impact, sure, but the point is that I'm not just shrugging my shoulders and accepting it.

[James Clark]

Oh stop it.  Why is it that you say you can't trust the government to do anything right but now claim that Trump's going for a drive will protect the country from its enemies?

Alan is unencumbered by intellectual honestly or a foolish consistency of thought.

[chez]

I think you're right. People should stop driving. After all, when you drive, people will continue to needlessly die.  Are you contributing to the death of others? Pretty simple public health 101.

Alan, surely you can see the difference between driving to work and going out to the bar. I think even you have enough intelligence to see there is a major difference here.

[Craig Lamson]

Then I guess what I would hope is that you would at least not brush off/excuse/rationalize someone with huge influence who is modeling behavior that puts you, me and the entire citizenry at least nominally at risk.

The problem with that James is that those who flaunt wearing masks come from both sides of the aisle, and they make their choices regardless of who sits at the top.  For example the latest surge seems to come from students going back to college.  I might be mistaken, but I doubt most of these folks could give a rats behind what Trump says.  Humans will do what humans do. 

I've spoken up when someone around me is flaunting their unwillingness to wear a mask in situations where they are putting others at risk (and where the private business is requiring people to wear masks).  Haven't been shot yet, thankfully, though one woman did tell me to fuck off.   

Not going there.  If it’s a private establishment it’s their responsibility. 

Added after I saw you edit... Sure it might make you feel better or even more responsible, but it’s a fools errand.  At least in my book.  Ymmv.