Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 258092 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1780 on: September 29, 2020, 02:13:13 pm »

Yes, 'most' of his US tax returns are probably OK given how bad our tax code is in terms of allowing special preferences for real estate holdings.  The one area that he is likely sweating is the $70 million special refund he claimed back in 2009.  this is the one that is still unresolved and according to the reports still with the Joint Committee on Taxation.  We don't know whether the IRS has made a ruling on this or not.  Don't you find it interesting that after 10 years, this case has not been resolved?  He has two major problems coming up.  the first is the repayment of the $400 million in debt he owes. It is not likely that he will be able to refinance that debt.  American banks long ago quit doing business with him.  He was bailed out by a special group at Deutsche Bank that works with high wealth individuals after the commercial group turned down his original loan request.  Senior management at the bank did not know he was extended credit.  I doubt he can go back to that well.  He has already sold almost all the marketable securities in his account to cover debt three years ago.  The only way out for him to cover the $400 million is through asset sales and most of those are now devalued as they are unprofitable. 

The second area he is at risk is in New York state where there is documented inflation of property values for the purposes of securing loans and deflation of the property for the purposes of local taxation.  This of course is fraud in most jurisdictions.  He is also running a risk with the mansion outside of New York that was used as a residence for the family but claimed to be an investment property. If it is a residence they can only get a $10K property tax deduction.  By claiming it is an investment property they get to deduct the full amount.  this is the subject of the subpoena Eric Trump has to address shortly.

My complaint is that he campaigned in 2016 on fixing the tax code and making sure everyone paid a fair share.  He did nothing of the kind.

If you like him as an unconventional politician as some on this forum do, that is fine.  If you don't believe that he is a grifter, you are quite wrong.
The $70 million he already paid.  He applied for a refund when Obama changed the tax laws.  The irony of that is really funny.  :) He hasn't gotten back the $70 million as the IRS hasn't ruled on it.  If I thought I was entitled to a $70 million refund, I'd apply for it and wait for the IRS to rule.  So would you. That's not illegal.   

Second, claiming higher valuations is hard to prove as a crime.  These things happen all the time because it's difficult to determine valuations in the real estate market.  How would one appraise valuation of a NY skyscraper with Covid going on? It might be half of last year's valuation, maybe two-thirds or something else.  It's a guess.   If I was using the building as collateral for a loan, I would use the old higher price. If there's a dispute, these things get negotiated and at worst the taxpayer pays the difference and there's penalty and interest.  They don't go to jail.

FInally, the $10K property deduction is a new law only came out last year.  Even if he misclaimed it, and I don't know anything about it other then your post, again these things are adjusted and the taxpayer pays the difference.  With a guy like TRump with 500 businesses, there's probably all kinds of disagreements as to what can and cannot be claimed as deductions.  When I was in business, NYS did a sales tax audit on my firm and came up with underpayment of $600 for a three year period which is nothing.  We missed a few things.  Big deal.  If it could happen with a tiny bunesess like mine, there must be loads of issues with a guy with 500 businesses.  That's why he's always being audited.

Since this is a photo forum, B&H is being sued by NYS tax authority for not paying about $7 million in sales taxes.  That's a civil case in Supreme Court I believe, not a criminal case.  B&H claims they didn't have to pay it.  The bigshot owners apparently agree not to pay the tax.  That doesn't make them crooks.  It's a difference in belief as to what the tax code is interpreted as.  That's why we have Tax Courts to decide these things.  Rarely do these things go to criminal court unless it's political like what's in the papers today regarding Trump.   Just a smear campaign before the election by the anti-Trump NY Times.

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1781 on: September 29, 2020, 02:17:08 pm »

Apparently, in New York, you can only be committed for 60 days. Then they have to let you out. Which explains why Rudy Giuliana popped up out of nowhere this morning on Fox & Friends to share his thoughts about Biden and tonight's debate. It is a pretty hilarious read.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-and-friends-hosts-look-on-in-horror-as-rudy-giuliani-blurts-out-biden-dementia-conspiracy-theory


Well, they're letting Biden out of his basement for the night so he can debate.

Manoli

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1782 on: September 29, 2020, 04:10:26 pm »

Goldhammer was right.  When the moderator starts taking sides and insulting the posters, it's time to go.

Let’s see if you manage to keep your word this time.

He’s back !
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1783 on: September 29, 2020, 04:20:01 pm »

Yes, 'most' of his US tax returns are probably OK given how bad our tax code is in terms of allowing special preferences for real estate holdings.  The one area that he is likely sweating is the $70 million special refund he claimed back in 2009.  this is the one that is still unresolved and according to the reports still with the Joint Committee on Taxation.  We don't know whether the IRS has made a ruling on this or not.  Don't you find it interesting that after 10 years, this case has not been resolved?  He has two major problems coming up.  the first is the repayment of the $400 million in debt he owes. It is not likely that he will be able to refinance that debt.  American banks long ago quit doing business with him.  He was bailed out by a special group at Deutsche Bank that works with high wealth individuals after the commercial group turned down his original loan request.  Senior management at the bank did not know he was extended credit.  I doubt he can go back to that well.  He has already sold almost all the marketable securities in his account to cover debt three years ago.  The only way out for him to cover the $400 million is through asset sales and most of those are now devalued as they are unprofitable. 

The second area he is at risk is in New York state where there is documented inflation of property values for the purposes of securing loans and deflation of the property for the purposes of local taxation.  This of course is fraud in most jurisdictions.  He is also running a risk with the mansion outside of New York that was used as a residence for the family but claimed to be an investment property. If it is a residence they can only get a $10K property tax deduction.  By claiming it is an investment property they get to deduct the full amount.  this is the subject of the subpoena Eric Trump has to address shortly.

My complaint is that he campaigned in 2016 on fixing the tax code and making sure everyone paid a fair share.  He did nothing of the kind.

If you like him as an unconventional politician as some on this forum do, that is fine.  If you don't believe that he is a grifter, you are quite wrong.

Documents inflation and devaluation of property values?  Documented by who? Cohen???  I don't think a property owner can set the value of his property for tax reasons.  The taxing body does that, at least thats how I get assessed and taxed.  As for values of property for loan applications, given the large value of those loans its foolish to think the lending institutions did not do due diligence.  Maybe they didn't. But my gut says they did.  Your indigestion may vary.

Refi - So what, it happens all the time and if he needs to sell assets he can.  Its not like he has none.  But neother you nor I know what might happen and speculation is useless.

I think the IRS is screwed on this one.  They made the rules ( well actually Obama did for this one) and now they are stuck.  My guess and its worth almost nothing, is the IRS is trying to find a save face settlement.  Trump said the other day the deal was all done and even signed  but the IRS changed their minds.  Long and short of it, its up to the IRS.

The house, I don't know enough to make a statement, but then again neither do you.  He has had this property for some time and filed taxes for all of those years, and now, a paritsan is trying to litigate?  Yea, right.

The tax code as I said is before is the charge of the Congress. Deal with it.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1784 on: September 29, 2020, 04:29:21 pm »

He’s back !

Yeah.  I missed you.  :)

Manoli

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1785 on: September 29, 2020, 04:36:15 pm »

At keast
Yeah.  I missed you.  :)

At least your sense of humour is still intact !
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1786 on: September 29, 2020, 04:39:20 pm »

At keast
At least your sense of humour is still intact !
At keast
At least your sense of humour is still intact !
Well, I hope you're glad I'm back too?  Too many dead heads around here with no sense of humor. Got to cheer everyone up. :)

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1787 on: September 30, 2020, 12:46:54 pm »

I watched the first segment of the debate last night before switching it off. I was appalled. Even Trump supporters are speechless.
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LesPalenik

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1788 on: September 30, 2020, 12:57:48 pm »

I watched the first segment of the debate last night before switching it off. I was appalled. Even Trump supporters are speechless.

The astonishing thing was the moderator was not prepared for Trump's bullying tactics and pushing even him around.
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LesPalenik

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1789 on: September 30, 2020, 01:33:17 pm »

Found on Twitter - by Katharine Borchert

Quote
I’m now watching speeches by Angela #Merkel to regain a sense of normalcy. My therapist does the same and he doesn’t even understand German.
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Chris Kern

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1790 on: September 30, 2020, 01:49:02 pm »

The astonishing thing was the moderator was not prepared for Trump's bullying tactics and pushing even him around.

I don't know what the moderator, Chris Wallace of Fox News (a competent professional broadcast journalist, not a Fox commentator), could have been expected to do to stop a president of the United States who was behaving like an unruly 12-year-old from acting up.  Wallace repeatedly asked both candidates to stop interrupting each other, and told Trump to his face that he was the worse offender.  The format was designed by the Commission on Presidential Debates, a non-governmental organization that has been managing these events since 1988 and, in retrospect, it might have been a good precaution to have arranged to cut the microphone of whichever candidate didn't have the floor.

MattBurt

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1791 on: September 30, 2020, 03:01:26 pm »

They need a moderator-controlled switch that only allows one debater mic to be on at a time.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1792 on: September 30, 2020, 03:05:50 pm »

...in retrospect, it might have been a good precaution to have arranged to cut the microphone of whichever candidate didn't have the floor.

It appears to me that the candidates are close enough together that they could hear each other without the microphones. The microphones are for the benefit of the audience and the viewers at home. If you turn off the microphone of the candidate that does not have the floor, he could still heckle the other candidate and the audience and viewers at home wouldn't know it. Maybe a plexiglass barrier between the candidates. I think we are beyond expecting the candidates to abide by the rules voluntarily. After last night's debate, I don't think there is any reason to hold the other debates anyway. I think everyone has seen what they need to see. Are we just curious to see if a physical altercation will break out? We've already seen Trump in action.

https://youtu.be/jkghtyxZ6rc?t=9

Seriously, how could anyone be undecided at this point?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 04:40:07 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1793 on: September 30, 2020, 03:08:42 pm »

I have not watched one of these debates since the Clinton/Bush/Perot one back in 1992,  I have not missed anything at all.  I find that the recaps from Colbert, Fallon, Kimmel, and Noah provide the best commentaries.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1794 on: September 30, 2020, 03:10:13 pm »

The microphones are for the benefit of the audience and the viewers at home. If you turn off the microphone of the candidate that does not have the floor, he could still heckle the other candidate and the audience and viewers at home wouldn't know it. Maybe a plexiglass barrier between the candidates.
Bring back the isolation booths that were used in the 1950s quiz shows!!!
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LesPalenik

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1795 on: September 30, 2020, 03:18:51 pm »

They need a moderator-controlled switch that only allows one debater mic to be on at a time.

That's what Biden proposed.

Quote
The 90-minute debate on Tuesday night was chaotic, marred by the Republican president’s constant interjections and interruptions of both his Democratic rival and the host, as well as Biden’s angry rejoinders. The Commission on Presidential Debates, a nonpartisan group that has organized the events since 1988, said it would make unspecified changes to the format to prevent chaos.

“Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues,” the group said in a statement, adding that it is “carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.”

Biden said in a campaign stop on Wednesday that he hoped organizers of future debates would be able to turn off the microphone of the candidate who is not speaking.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-debates/next-trump-biden-debate-will-have-new-rules-to-aid-orderly-discussion-idUSKBN26L3DA?il=0
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1796 on: September 30, 2020, 03:52:35 pm »

Best one line from all the reviews of the debate last night comes from TV critic Hank Steuver of the Washington Post, "Trump’s lone asset (besides a bronzer glow-up to a bizarre shade of crayon that isn’t yet included in the box) was the energy and ferocity with which he interrupted Biden’s attempts to answer."
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1797 on: September 30, 2020, 04:15:01 pm »

Bring back the isolation booths that were used in the 1950s quiz shows!!!

The Cone of Silence !
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Robert

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1798 on: September 30, 2020, 04:17:12 pm »

There were no winners in the chaotic mayhem last night. There were many losers, among them were... dignity, decency, and most of all—democracy.

Among the many extraordinary obligations of the office, the President of the United States is responsible for setting the tone for the nation's political discourse... and he has... for four long miserable years. Last night, when that tone was of special importance, we saw what he wants that tone to be.

Beyond that, I have nothing further to say at the moment. I'm simply too depressed and disgusted by the ongoing, accelerating, and intentional sabotage and destruction of civil discourse on which democracy is dependent.

The enemies of democracy and especially the United States are celebrating today.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 04:55:30 pm by TechTalk »
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Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

KLaban

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1799 on: September 30, 2020, 04:43:36 pm »

There were no winners in the chaotic mayhem last night. There were many losers, among them were... dignity, decency, and most of all—democracy.

Among the many extraordinary obligations of the office, the President of the United States is responsible for setting the tone for the nation's political discourse... and he has... for 4-long miserable years. Last night when that tone was of special importance, we saw what he wants that tone to be.

Beyond that, I have nothing further to say at the moment. I'm simply too depressed and disgusted by the ongoing, accelerating, and intentional sabotage and destruction of civil discourse on which democracy is dependent.

The enemies of democracy and especially the United States are celebrating today.

Amen.
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