Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 110817 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1740 on: September 28, 2020, 02:28:14 pm »

Historical parallels are fun. I heard a couple on this podcast, https://www.npr.org/2020/08/26/906212220/how-reagan-changed-conservatism.

The intro blurb, "Historian Rick Perlstein has spent 20 years studying the roots of American conservatism. His latest book, 'Reaganland,' is about the events that propelled Ronald Reagan to the White House and made him a revered figure among Republicans. He says that "viciousness and a naked will to power" has always been part of the conservative Republican coalition."

Two historical episodes stick out from the discussion. When Reagan was hot to trot on the miracle cancer cure Laetrile that wasn't, he came down on the FDA, threatening to curtail their powers because they were holding up the cure and because they were being inefficient by slowing down Big Pharma. Sound familiar?

A second historical parallel was the emphasis placed on Jimmy Carter's unwholesome brother Billy, who had ties to Libya and other unsavoury types, and for which no link at all had ever been uncovered to President Carter. Nevertheless, hay was made of that, as if Billy was Jimmy's problem.
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Robert

chez

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1741 on: September 28, 2020, 02:37:12 pm »

I haven't deducted my haircuts as a business expense. Perhaps I should have. That won't be a big deal this year. My wife has been doing it. Like restaurants, I may never go back to the barber again. Funny how things change. You adapt. Life goes on.

Is there any news on the $200 Rx debit cards Trump is supposed to be handing out to seniors? He'd better hurry, the election is almost upon us, and I have a couple of prescriptions to fill.

You just don't know how to play the game. Pay your wife $200 per cut and deduct that as a business expense. Meals she cooks...surely they can bet you $250 deductions per meal. Ger with it man...that's how this game is played.
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1742 on: September 28, 2020, 03:12:31 pm »

To date, Trump has only been ordered by a court to pay a $2 Million dollar penalty for illegally using charitable funds from his foundation for personal, political, and business purposes, dissolve the charity bearing his name and distribute the remaining funds to court approved legitimate charities, required to agree to 19 admissions acknowledging his personal misuse of funds at the Trump Foundation, and agreed to restrictions on future charitable service. That was just to settle the civil suit against the charity. It doesn't prevent criminal charges from being filed after he leaves office over his fraudulent and illegal misuse of charitable funds.

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/donald-j-trump-pays-court-ordered-2-million-illegally-using-trump-foundation

The well documented family business fraud, which was reported at length and in depth by the New York Times in a Pulitzer Prize winning article, is still under investigation as Trump hides behind his office resisting subpoenas for documents. Then there's the campaign finance fraud for which Michael Cohen was convicted and Trump was named as Individual-1. There are also the revelations from Cohen that properties were given radically different valuations for tax purposes and bank loans, which opens up potential bank fraud as well as tax fraud charges. It will be interesting to see where the investigations lead after he's no longer sitting in the White House.

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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1743 on: September 28, 2020, 03:21:34 pm »

I haven't deducted my haircuts as a business expense. Perhaps I should have. That won't be a big deal this year. My wife has been doing it. Like restaurants, I may never go back to the barber again. Funny how things change. You adapt. Life goes on.

Is there any news on the $200 Rx debit cards Trump is supposed to be handing out to seniors? He'd better hurry, the election is almost upon us, and I have a couple of prescriptions to fill. I have given up on another $1200 check from Congress.

From what I gather Trump considers himself the Brand and as such he deducts everthing based on that theory. So far it seems its legal.  When you become big enough to be a Brand, then maybe you can deduct your haircuts.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1744 on: September 28, 2020, 03:23:29 pm »

To date, Trump has only been ordered by a court to pay a $2 Million dollar penalty for illegally using charitable funds from his foundation for personal, political, and business purposes, dissolve the charity bearing his name and distribute the remaining funds to court approved legitimate charities, required to agree to 19 admissions acknowledging his personal misuse of funds at the Trump Foundation, and agreed to restrictions on future charitable service. That was just to settle the civil suit against the charity. It doesn't prevent criminal charges from being filed after he leaves office over his fraudulent and illegal misuse of charitable funds.

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/donald-j-trump-pays-court-ordered-2-million-illegally-using-trump-foundation

The well documented family business fraud, which was reported at length and in depth by the New York Times in a Pulitzer Prize winning article, is still under investigation as Trump hides behind his office resisting subpoenas for documents. Then there's the campaign finance fraud for which Michael Cohen was convicted and Trump was named as Individual-1. There are also the revelations from Cohen that properties were given radically different valuations for tax purposes and bank loans, which opens up potential bank fraud as well as tax fraud charges. It will be interesting to see where the investigations lead after he's no longer sitting in the White House.

Still stuck with innuedno I see.  All those words and yet nothing.  SOP.
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James Clark

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1745 on: September 28, 2020, 04:31:36 pm »

Still stuck with innuedno I see.  All those words and yet nothing.  SOP.

Wait.. what part of, "...ordered by a court to pay a $2 Million dollar penalty for illegally using charitable funds from his foundation for personal, political, and business purposes.." is "innuendo" and "nothing?"

:/

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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1746 on: September 28, 2020, 04:35:30 pm »

Wait.. what part of, "...ordered by a court to pay a $2 Million dollar penalty for illegally using charitable funds from his foundation for personal, political, and business purposes.." is "innuendo" and "nothing?"

:/

From another post of mine to Mr Talk...

"So where are the convictions of Donald Trump for fraud?"

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John Camp

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1747 on: September 28, 2020, 04:39:57 pm »

I believe the Times reports could be a turning point in the election. The Trumpers forget that Trump won in 2016 not on total votes (he got fewer than Mrs. Clinton) but by winning by very narrow margins in a few critical states. For the Democrats to win the election, all they have to do is hold the states that they won last time -- and they will do that, not even close -- and then convince a fraction of 1% of the voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin to vote for Biden rather than Trump. Trump won all of those states by less than 1%.

It's frustrating to be living in a non-battleground state with few electoral votes, because we really don't get to see the campaign, which is focused in those important states. I think Biden will win if he (1) simply pounds on the obvious: more than 200,000 dead, which total could have been radically reduced if Trump had simply urged people to wear masks. That would have cost him nothing, but he refuses to do it. (2) $750 in income tax payments in 2015 and 2016, no tax payments at all in ten of the last fifteen years. (3) He wants to end Obamacare. (4) He wants to destroy the Post Office. (5) His plan to reduce Social Security payments for people who are still working will damage Social Security.

If the Democrats hammer on those things, I believe they'll win and probably flip the Senate. It's frustrating to live in a place that is a lock for Biden, and not be able to see first hand what the campaigns are doing in the critical states.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 04:45:22 pm by John Camp »
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James Clark

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1748 on: September 28, 2020, 04:46:51 pm »

From another post of mine to Mr Talk...

"So where are the convictions of Donald Trump for fraud?"

I must be misunderstanding, because you seem to be implying that without a criminal conviction there's no problem, despite a multi-million dollar civil judgment predicated on illegal activity.  Do I have that right?

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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1749 on: September 28, 2020, 04:47:52 pm »

I believe the Times reports could be a turning point in the election. The Trumpers forget that Trump won in 2016 not on total votes (he got fewer than Mrs. Clinton) but by winning by very narrow margins in a few critical states. For the Democrats to win the election, all they have to do is hold the states that they won last time -- and they will do that, not even close -- and then convince a fraction of 1% of the voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin to vote for Biden rather than Trump. Trump won all of those states by less than 1%.

It's frustrating to be living in a non-battleground state with few electoral votes, because we really don't get to see the campaign, which is focused in those important states. I think Biden will win if he (1) simply pounds on the obvious: more than 200,000 dead, which total could have been radically reduced if Trump had simply urged people to wear masks. That would have cost him nothing, but he refuses to do it. (2) $750 in income tax payments in 2015 and 2016, no tax payments at all in ten of the last fifteen years. (3) He wants to end Obamacare. (4) He wants to destroy the Post Office. (5) His plan to reduce Social Security payments for people who are still working will damage Social Security.

If the Democrats hammer on those things, I believe they'll win and probably flip the Senate. It's frustrating to live in a place that is a lock for Biden, and not be able to see first hand what the campaigns are doing in the critical states.

A lot will turn on the debate tomorrow night. The grocery store will deliver my popcorn later this afternoon.
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MattBurt

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1750 on: September 28, 2020, 04:49:21 pm »

A lot will turn on the debate tomorrow night. The grocery store will deliver my popcorn later this afternoon.

That reminds me I need to swing by the liquor store.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1751 on: September 28, 2020, 05:05:17 pm »

I must be misunderstanding, because you seem to be implying that without a criminal conviction there's no problem, despite a multi-million dollar civil judgment predicated on illegal activity.  Do I have that right?

Not at all.  Mr Talk has surmised that Trump could be guilty of Fraud.  I asked for examples of Trump being convicted of Fraud.  Mr  Talk could only provide innuendo, as in Trump might or could be convicted of fraud ( never mind he had yet to be charged with Fraud) someday after he leaves office.

That seems pretty clear to me. 

I’ll leave problem or no problem when it comes to a Fraud indictment of Trump to the courts. 



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HSakols

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1752 on: September 28, 2020, 06:42:20 pm »

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Chris Kern

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1753 on: September 28, 2020, 06:49:28 pm »

The intro blurb, "Historian Rick Perlstein has spent 20 years studying the roots of American conservatism. His latest book, 'Reaganland,' is about the events that propelled Ronald Reagan to the White House and made him a revered figure among Republicans. He says that "viciousness and a naked will to power" has always been part of the conservative Republican coalition."

That podcast "blurb" is idiotic.

While it's true that the Reagan "revolution" swept into government some non-traditional, non-establishment Republicans―Reagan probably was not always aware of the oddities of some of his followers and perhaps, in fact, already may have been suffering at the beginning of his presidential term from the dementia that ultimately killed him―during most of the 20th Century and the early years of the 21st, the Republican Party probably could best have been characterized as center-right, internationalist, and dedicated to restraint in the use of federal power.

The American "conservative" position was and continues to have an even broader base, encompassing libertarian skepticism about the exercise of government authority, deregulation of commercial activity during the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II administrations, and a methodological preference for legislative over executive or judicial action and for state (localized) over federal (national) statutory enactments.

And now for something completely different: Trumpism.  It's neither Republican nor conservative by any plausible stretch of the imagination.  It's a classical populist movement, probably aligned more closely to the left wing of the Democratic Party than to any faction within the Republican Party except evangelicals obsessed with federal abortion policy and "social issues" such as gay marriage, both of which have limited traction among the public at large.

Oh, yes: and immigration―an issue that pits the Trumpisitos directly against the business interests that have traditionally been at the center of the Republican Party.

HSakols

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1754 on: September 28, 2020, 06:50:59 pm »

I think this is more of what is going on.

[link deleted]
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 04:36:43 am by Jeremy Roussak »
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1755 on: September 28, 2020, 06:59:53 pm »

The court ordered civil penalty of $2 Million dollars for illegal charity fraud was small change compared to the $25 Million paid by Trump in settlement of the Trump University civil lawsuit for fraud.

New York Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman released the following statement upon U.S. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel’s order finalizing the $25 million Trump University settlement:

“Judge Curiel's order finalizing the $25 million Trump University settlement means that victims of Donald Trump’s fraudulent university will finally receive the relief they deserve. We are particularly pleased that the final settlement we negotiated with class counsel ensures that members of the class will receive an even higher settlement than anyone originally anticipated.

This settlement marked a stunning reversal by President Trump, who for years refused to compensate the victims of his sham university.

My office won’t hesitate to hold those who commit fraud accountable, no matter how rich or powerful they may be.”

In 2013, Attorney General Schneiderman sued Donald Trump for swindling thousands of Americans out of millions of dollars through Trump University. In late 2016, Attorney General Schneiderman and class counsel announced a $25 million settlement in the Trump University case.

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2018/ag-schneiderman-statement-final-trump-university-settlement

As I've made clear (to most), the fraud cases I've noted have been civil cases brought by States which have cost Trump millions in court ordered penalty for illegal charity activity or agreed to in a civil fraud settlement. Other cases of fraud have been reported thru in-depth and well documented journalism or are currently under investigation.

As I said, It will be interesting to see where the investigations lead after he's no longer sitting in the White House. Nowhere have I said that Trump has been convicted of criminal fraud. That would be nothing more than a transparent non sequitur meant to distract from the actual recent civil cases and the ongoing reporting and investigations.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1756 on: September 28, 2020, 07:05:25 pm »

And now for something completely different: Trumpism.

I am not sure whatever it is that Trump is for or against today rises to the level of an "-ism".
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1757 on: September 28, 2020, 07:49:09 pm »

From what I gather Trump considers himself the Brand and as such he deducts everthing based on that theory. So far it seems its legal.  When you become big enough to be a Brand, then maybe you can deduct your haircuts.

I wonder what the threshold is for being a brand. And what the difference is between a Brand and a brand.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1758 on: September 28, 2020, 08:08:52 pm »

The court ordered civil penalty of $2 Million dollars for illegal charity fraud was small change compared to the $25 Million paid by Trump in settlement of the Trump University civil lawsuit for fraud.

New York Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman released the following statement upon U.S. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel’s order finalizing the $25 million Trump University settlement:

“Judge Curiel's order finalizing the $25 million Trump University settlement means that victims of Donald Trump’s fraudulent university will finally receive the relief they deserve. We are particularly pleased that the final settlement we negotiated with class counsel ensures that members of the class will receive an even higher settlement than anyone originally anticipated.

This settlement marked a stunning reversal by President Trump, who for years refused to compensate the victims of his sham university.

My office won’t hesitate to hold those who commit fraud accountable, no matter how rich or powerful they may be.”

In 2013, Attorney General Schneiderman sued Donald Trump for swindling thousands of Americans out of millions of dollars through Trump University. In late 2016, Attorney General Schneiderman and class counsel announced a $25 million settlement in the Trump University case.

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2018/ag-schneiderman-statement-final-trump-university-settlement

As I've made clear (to most), the fraud cases I've noted have been civil cases brought by States which have cost Trump millions in court ordered penalty for illegal charity activity or agreed to in a civil fraud settlement. Other cases of fraud have been reported thru in-depth and well documented journalism or are currently under investigation.

As I said, It will be interesting to see where the investigations lead after he's no longer sitting in the White House. Nowhere have I said that Trump has been convicted of criminal fraud. That would be nothing more than a transparent non sequitur meant to distract from the actual recent civil cases and the ongoing reporting and investigations.

Still can’t find those criminal fraud cases can you?  Oh I’m sorry, it’s the best you can do, though still wanting and leaving you grasping at straws that “ someday” maybe it will happen.  But you have the Lawsuits....Lawsuits ! Great work.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 08:46:46 pm by Craig Lamson »
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HSakols

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1759 on: September 28, 2020, 08:35:19 pm »

We need these guys more than ever.  [link deleted]  Where is the love?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 04:36:24 am by Jeremy Roussak »
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