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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 31682 times)

William Walker

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1520 on: September 15, 2020, 02:22:02 pm »

I thought that the Jewish community would have thought this to be a positive move.

This Times Of Israel article, by Abraham Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League and, according to the New York Times Magazine, "scourge of anti-Semites of high estate and low, in Hollywood and Tehran, on campus and in the tabloids", surprised me.

"Trump is bad for America and bad for the Jews
For 50+ years, I kept out of politics; now, with a demagogue who threatens American democracy as US president, I must speak out"


https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/american-jewrys-fateful-choice/
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1521 on: September 15, 2020, 04:09:30 pm »

I thought that the Jewish community would have thought this to be a positive move.

This Times Of Israel article, by Abraham Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League and, according to the New York Times Magazine, "scourge of anti-Semites of high estate and low, in Hollywood and Tehran, on campus and in the tabloids", surprised me.

"Trump is bad for America and bad for the Jews
For 50+ years, I kept out of politics; now, with a demagogue who threatens American democracy as US president, I must speak out"


https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/american-jewrys-fateful-choice/

Yes. Of course.

The points are extremely close to those listed by the famous Fortune magazine cover article “why Trump is bad for business”.

As soon as you look objectively at the big picture any apparent short term gain his policies may look like delivering is dwarfed by the mid to long term negative impacts.

Not to mention that even his short term gains mostly look bad already when you consider actual facts instead of the embellished version propagandaed by Trump himself. His short term economic results vs those of Obama coming to mind as a striking example. Yes, Obsma did better although he started from a far worse situation.

But Trump isn’t in it for his electorate, the US, Jews or the good of the World. He is in it for himself as an individual. There is nothing else to it.

Regards,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 04:14:09 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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John Camp

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1522 on: September 15, 2020, 06:59:30 pm »

The author has a very definite axe to grind.

Jeremy

Yes, she does. I've seen her described as a mouthpiece of Hamas. On the other hand, she's correct in her basic argument here.
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1523 on: September 15, 2020, 09:08:34 pm »

Scientific American - We’ve never backed a presidential candidate in our 175-year history—until now

Quote
Scientific American has never endorsed a presidential candidate in its 175-year history. This year we are compelled to do so. We do not do this lightly.

The evidence and the science show that Donald Trump has badly damaged the U.S. and its people—because he rejects evidence and science. The most devastating example is his dishonest and inept response to the COVID-19 pandemic, which cost more than 190,000 Americans their lives by the middle of September. He has also attacked environmental protections, medical care, and the researchers and public science agencies that help this country prepare for its greatest challenges. That is why we urge you to vote for Joe Biden, who is offering fact-based plans to protect our health, our economy and the environment. These and other proposals he has put forth can set the country back on course for a safer, more prosperous and more equitable future.

Full editorial at...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden/

* Please don't turn this back into a Covid debate back and forth. I posted this here first as the editorial and endorsement are related to Trump's wholesale assault on science across the board.

I will also post this in the "Covid-19 Everything Political" thread in case someone wants to debate the Covid response aspect of the editorial separately from every other assault on science being made by Trump, as required by the moderator. If you wish to discuss Covid response and the political implications, it appears that's the only place where it's allowed.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 09:39:00 pm by TechTalk »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1524 on: September 15, 2020, 10:53:13 pm »

This position from the Scientific American clearly says that Trump isn’t a Republican anymore.

They would never take such a stand if he were.

The expression selling your soul to the devil comes to mind.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 09:13:11 am by BernardLanguillier »
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kers

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1525 on: September 16, 2020, 04:30:03 am »

Trump on forest fires: It will get cooler again.
Trump on Covid-19  : it will disappear in summer like magic.
Who needs a president these days.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1526 on: September 16, 2020, 04:45:58 pm »

So, at a time when political leaders have much better and far more important things to do, they have to waste their time and taxpayer money chasing shadows, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/aluminum-tariff-canada-us-trump_ca_5f60f59bc5b68d1b09c89198, because Trump likes to shoot from the hip and "tell it like it is" even though time and time and time again, he demonstrates that he doesn't have a clue.
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MattBurt

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1527 on: September 16, 2020, 05:17:51 pm »

So, at a time when political leaders have much better and far more important things to do, they have to waste their time and taxpayer money chasing shadows, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/aluminum-tariff-canada-us-trump_ca_5f60f59bc5b68d1b09c89198, because Trump likes to shoot from the hip and "tell it like it is" even though time and time and time again, he demonstrates that he doesn't have a clue.

Embarrassing.  :-[ Again.  >:(
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-MattB

PeterAit

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1528 on: September 16, 2020, 05:58:48 pm »


The expression selling your soul to the devil comes to mind.

Cheers,
Bernard

Trump? A soul? I don't think so.
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Peter

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1529 on: September 16, 2020, 07:31:03 pm »

Trump? A soul? I don't think so.

I meant the Republican Party... :)

They have demonstrated with utmost clarity that their fear of the evolving demographics in the US is such that they are willing to giving up on all the founding principles of the party for the sake of winning.

As often in life, their actions are going to accelerate the very thing they were afraid of, which is defeat. The most striking example of self fulfilling prophecy.

Another, more realistic approach, would have been be to stick to the democratic ideal of the US and to propose a political program that meet the needs of the majority of the population.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 07:34:52 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1530 on: September 17, 2020, 12:54:59 pm »

FBI Director Christopher Wray testifying today before the House Homeland Security Committee:

FBI Director Wray: “We certainly have seen very active, very active efforts by the Russians to influence our election in 2020, through what I would call more the malign foreign influence side of things — social media, use of proxies, state media, online journals, etc. — an effort to both sow divisiveness and discord and, and I think the intelligence community has assessed this publicly, to primarily, to denigrate Vice President Biden”

https://twitter.com/cspan/efforts by the Russians to influence our election in 2020
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1531 on: September 17, 2020, 01:22:53 pm »

Trump ABC town hall pulls in fewer viewers than 'America's Got Talent,' NBA, Fox News

ABC's 90-minute town hall with President Trump drew fewer viewers than NBC's "America's Got Talent," ESPN's NBA playoffs telecast and Fox News prime-time programming featuring Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, according to Nielsen Media Research.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/516832-trump-abc-town-hall-pulls-in-fewer-viewers-than-americas-got-talent-nba-fox
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 01:28:57 pm by faberryman »
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1532 on: September 17, 2020, 03:38:33 pm »

Russian Intelligence Agent Andrii Derkach Working to Undermine US Election

If you're interested in one of the ways in which Russia uses "proxies" to spread disinformation and propaganda to influence the US 2020 election, one place to look would be Andrii Derkach. The Treasury Department issued a press release one week ago...

(Treasury Dept. Press Release) "Derkach, a Member of the Ukrainian Parliament, has been an active Russian agent for over a decade, maintaining close connections with the Russian Intelligence Services. Derkach has directly or indirectly engaged in, sponsored, concealed, or otherwise been complicit in foreign interference in an attempt to undermine the upcoming 2020 U.S. presidential election."

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm1118

One of the ways Derkach spread Russian disinformation was thru audio tapes edited to produce a false narrative...

(Treasury Dept. Press Release) "Between May and July 2020, Derkach released edited audio tapes and other unsupported information with the intent to discredit U.S. officials, and he levied unsubstantiated allegations against U.S. and international political figures. Derkach almost certainly targeted the U.S. voting populace, prominent U.S. persons, and members of the U.S. government, based on his reliance on U.S. platforms, English-language documents and videos, and pro-Russian lobbyists in the United States used to propagate his claims."

https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/biden-audio-first-shared-by-russian-agent-thrives-online

Trump retweeted the Russian false propaganda...

(AP) "By amplifying the recording to his more than 85 million Twitter followers, Trump underscored the ease with which pro-Russian narratives can seep into American public discourse ahead of the 2020 election even after being flagged by intelligence officials as the product of a concerted Russian effort."

https://www.timesfreepress.com/2020/aug/19/trump-retweets-purported-audio-biden-call-ukraine

Andrii Derkach has been working with Rudy Giuliani and One America News Network

People in the US that Russian agent Andrii Derkach has been working with include Rudy Giuliani and One America News Network (OAN is a far-right pro-Trump cable channel and website). Derkach and Giuliani appeared in an anti-Biden television series produced by OAN and Giuliani has interviewed Derkach on his YouTube video series Common Sense about the Bidens. Since the Treasury Department's press release on Derkach, OAN has been rapidly trying to erase any trace of his name or appearances from their website; while Giuliani repeatedly denies knowing anything about his background.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-intel-repeatedly-warned-about-andriy-derkach-rudy-giulianis-russian-agent-pal

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/election-interference-sanctions-ukraine/2020/09/10/
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1533 on: September 17, 2020, 04:27:49 pm »

Trump ABC town hall pulls in fewer viewers than 'America's Got Talent,' NBA, Fox News

ABC's 90-minute town hall with President Trump drew fewer viewers than NBC's "America's Got Talent," ESPN's NBA playoffs telecast and Fox News prime-time programming featuring Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, according to Nielsen Media Research.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/516832-trump-abc-town-hall-pulls-in-fewer-viewers-than-americas-got-talent-nba-fox

Some of it is most probably the result of an actual drop of popularity of Trump but it may only be part of the story.

My modest opinion as an outsider is that we are at a stage where the denial of reality of Trump is such that his supporters have applied the lies to him also and turned him into an imaginary idealized object.

But deep inside they know the real Trump is a disaster. So some of them (many it seems) avoid watching him to avoid further risk that his actual mediocrity could further ruin the idealized image they have built.

The main reason being to avoid damaging their own image as a Trump supporter. It’s the very same logic of cheating and running away from issues that is 180 degrees away from everything the Republicans have been standing for from since they were founded.

And this goes to show how anti-Republican Trump bigotry in itself is.

It’s the same association mechanism by which Nikon fanboys avoid watching Youtube videos by Nikon boasting about the great autofocus of the Z7.

The good news being that smart people have the ability to escape such self-deception mechanisms.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 04:43:35 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1534 on: September 17, 2020, 06:53:00 pm »

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1535 on: September 17, 2020, 07:48:31 pm »

Ohio Republican Chief Justice sharply criticized the Ohio Republican Party Wednesday for their statement calling a judge partisan

Republican Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose last month ordered that absentee ballot drop boxes be limited to one per county. Shortly after Judge Richard Fry ruled Tuesday that LaRose’s rule to limit the number to one in each county was arbitrary and issued a ruling that allows for the addition of ballot drop boxes, the Republican Party released a statement. It read, in part: “After the corruption and deceit we have seen from Ohio Democrats, it comes as no surprise to discover they have colluded with a Democrat Common Pleas Court judge regarding a ruling on ballot drop boxes,”.

Republican Chief Supreme Court Justice Maureen O’Connor issued a condemnation of the party’s comments. She was the Republican Lieutenant Governor of Ohio before joining the Ohio Supreme Court in 2003 as an Associate Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court and becoming Chief Justice in 2011.

Chief Justice Maureen O’Connor issued a statement that says in part:

"I condemn in the strongest possible terms both the statement released by the Ohio Republican Party on September 15, 2020, and its unsigned authors. The statement disparages the integrity of Franklin County Common Pleas Judge Richard Frye.  The publication accuses Judge Frye of colluding with the Ohio Democratic Party and labels him a “partisan judge.”

To accuse a judge of deciding the matter before him on partisan politics and further accuse the judge of “obstruction of his judicial responsibility” is without merit and is meant to further the false narrative that judges have no conscience, no legal responsibilities, and no capacity to decide what the law is beyond the raw politics of the issue.

The Republican Party’s statement should be seen for what it is: part of a continuing string of attacks against any decision that doesn’t favor a political end, regardless of party, even if that decision may be legally correct and indeed legally required.

Attacks on the judiciary only serve to undermine the public’s confidence in the courts.  Attacks such as these, no matter the source, reflect poorly, not on the judiciary, but on the leadership of those who would perpetrate them."

Her full statement can be found here...

http://www.courtnewsohio.gov/bench/2020/judicialAttack_091620
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1536 on: September 18, 2020, 01:10:29 pm »

Here are a few whoppers Trump told the crowd at his Wisconsin rally.

Fact check: Boasting and attacking Biden, Trump makes at least 25 false claims at Wisconsin rally

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/18/politics/trump-fact-check-25-false-claims-wisconsin-rally/index.html

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1537 on: September 18, 2020, 01:24:53 pm »

Ohio Republican Chief Justice sharply criticized the Ohio Republican Party Wednesday for their statement calling a judge partisan

Republican Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose last month ordered that absentee ballot drop boxes be limited to one per county. Shortly after Judge Richard Fry ruled Tuesday that LaRose’s rule to limit the number to one in each county was arbitrary and issued a ruling that allows for the addition of ballot drop boxes, the Republican Party released a statement. It read, in part: “After the corruption and deceit we have seen from Ohio Democrats, it comes as no surprise to discover they have colluded with a Democrat Common Pleas Court judge regarding a ruling on ballot drop boxes,”.

Republican Chief Supreme Court Justice Maureen O’Connor issued a condemnation of the party’s comments. She was the Republican Lieutenant Governor of Ohio before joining the Ohio Supreme Court in 2003 as an Associate Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court and becoming Chief Justice in 2011.

Chief Justice Maureen O’Connor issued a statement that says in part:

"I condemn in the strongest possible terms both the statement released by the Ohio Republican Party on September 15, 2020, and its unsigned authors. The statement disparages the integrity of Franklin County Common Pleas Judge Richard Frye.  The publication accuses Judge Frye of colluding with the Ohio Democratic Party and labels him a “partisan judge.”

To accuse a judge of deciding the matter before him on partisan politics and further accuse the judge of “obstruction of his judicial responsibility” is without merit and is meant to further the false narrative that judges have no conscience, no legal responsibilities, and no capacity to decide what the law is beyond the raw politics of the issue.

The Republican Party’s statement should be seen for what it is: part of a continuing string of attacks against any decision that doesn’t favor a political end, regardless of party, even if that decision may be legally correct and indeed legally required.

Attacks on the judiciary only serve to undermine the public’s confidence in the courts.  Attacks such as these, no matter the source, reflect poorly, not on the judiciary, but on the leadership of those who would perpetrate them."

Her full statement can be found here...

http://www.courtnewsohio.gov/bench/2020/judicialAttack_091620
The US Supreme Court justices always get accused of voting by political party who appointed them or according to some personal beliefs they have rather than interpreting the Constitution in a fair and unbiased way.  So judges have always been fair game of voting according to politics on both sides of the political spectrum. Additionally, in many localities, judges are elected.  They should be open to criticism.

So I think the Ohio Chief Justice is out of order.  They're not immune to charges of wrong beliefs just like everyone else.  We live in a democracy where freedom of speech is appropriate. I have a right to accuse justices of bias or wrongheadedness if I think so. 

PeterAit

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1538 on: September 18, 2020, 04:23:20 pm »

Trump Announces 'Patriotic Education' Commission, A Largely Political Move

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/17/914127266/trump-announces-patriotic-education-commission-a-largely-political-move

And he says that educating children about racial inequities in the country is "child abuse."

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." That second part is so apropos these days.
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Peter

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PeterAit

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1539 on: September 18, 2020, 04:36:28 pm »

And Science Magazine, the 175 year old publication of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, has joined Scientific American in condemning Trump and endorsing Biden. This is one of the most respected scientific journals in the world and they have never done this sort of thing before. Oh wait--must be a liberal plot.
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Peter

"Nothing spoils fun like finding out it builds character." -- Calvin (and Hobbes)
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