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Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 110347 times)

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1560 on: September 19, 2020, 04:31:18 pm »

The assertion has been made that the some organization called the *"Democrat Party" has accused Brett Kavanaugh of being a rapist. If anyone can back up that assertion, I'd be interested in seeing the evidence that such a shocking accusation was made by a political party.

I'm aware that a woman accused Kavanaugh of a drunken sexual assault (forcibly groped her and tried to take off her clothes) while attending a party in high school, but she didn't accuse him of rape. She testified at his confirmation hearing and they were both questioned about the allegations by both parties. But, I'm not aware of any political party accusing him of either sexual assault or rape. Individual members may have commented on being disturbed by the allegations of assault or the witnesses testimony and believability, but nothing remotely resembling a party accusing him of rape.

* I'm aware, as we all are, of the Democratic Party and that's probably what was meant. For some reason, Republicans seem to be reluctant to use the words Democratic and Party together; even though it's the name of their primary opposition party. They routinely say "Democrat" Party, or Representative, or Senator, or Congressman despite the fact that they know the correct term is Democratic Party, or Democratic Senator, etc. Why they seem to fear the word Democratic, I have no idea.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1561 on: September 19, 2020, 04:40:59 pm »

The assertion has been made that the some organization called the *"Democrat Party" has accused Brett Kavanaugh of being a rapist. If anyone can back up that assertion, I'd be interested in seeing the evidence that such a shocking accusation was made by a political party.

I'm aware that a woman accused Kavanaugh of a drunken sexual assault (forcibly groped her and tried to take off her clothes) while attending a party in high school, but she didn't accuse him of rape. She testified at his confirmation hearing and they were both questioned about the allegations by both parties. But, I'm not aware of any political party accusing him of either sexual assault or rape. Individual members may have commented on being disturbed by the allegations of assault or the witnesses testimony and believability, but nothing remotely resembling a party accusing him of rape.

* I'm aware, as we all are, of the Democratic Party and that's probably what was meant. For some reason, Republicans seem to be reluctant to use the words Democratic and Party together; even though it's the name of their primary opposition party. They routinely say "Democrat" Party, or Representative, or Senator, or Congressman despite the fact that they know the correct term is Democratic Party, or Democratic Senator, etc. Why they seem to fear the word Democratic, I have no idea.
Anyone who followed the debate knew what the Democrats were calling Justice Kavanaugh.  They tried to destroy his nomination and terribly hurt his reputation.  Any fair minded person would see that's what happened.

The Democrat Party is not called the Democratic Party.  The first is the proper wording.  Democratic is an adjective that would describe Party.  That's not what Democrat Party means. Democrat is not an adjective but the Name of the Party just like Republican Party.  You wouldn't call the latter the Republicanism Party.  Same with the Democrats. 

The reason Democrats want to use Democratic is to make it seem like they're democratic and their opposing party members, the republicans are not democratic.  That's silly and just a political ploy.   

John Camp

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1562 on: September 19, 2020, 06:21:51 pm »

Anyone who followed the debate knew what the Democrats were calling Justice Kavanaugh.  They tried to destroy his nomination and terribly hurt his reputation.  Any fair minded person would see that's what happened.

The Democrat Party is not called the Democratic Party.  The first is the proper wording.  Democratic is an adjective that would describe Party.  That's not what Democrat Party means. Democrat is not an adjective but the Name of the Party just like Republican Party.  You wouldn't call the latter the Republicanism Party.  Same with the Democrats. 

The reason Democrats want to use Democratic is to make it seem like they're democratic and their opposing party members, the republicans are not democratic.  That's silly and just a political ploy.

Of all the comments in this thread, this is one of the dumbest, which is really saying something -- no offense. The "Democratic Party" has been the official name of the party since 1844. This isn't a matter of grammar, it's a matter of brand names -- What you're saying is like saying "Cheerios" isn't the name of the cereal because "Cheerios" isn't a real word. "Democratic Party" is a brand name just like "Republican Party." It's not Republic Party, or Republicism Party, though it could be, if somebody wanted to use it as a new brand name. It's properly  "Democratic Party." "Democrat Party" is simply illiterate.  So, you know, get a friggin' life.
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Chris Kern

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1563 on: September 19, 2020, 06:46:31 pm »

The Democrat Party is not called the Democratic Party.  The first is the proper wording.  Democratic is an adjective that would describe Party.  That's not what Democrat Party means. Democrat is not an adjective but the Name of the Party just like Republican Party.  You wouldn't call the latter the Republicanism Party.  Same with the Democrats. 

Of all the comments in this thread, this is one of the dumbest, which is really saying something -- no offense. The "Democratic Party" has been the official name of the party since 1844. . . . "Democrat Party" is simply illiterate.

Well, without doubt it certainly was an idiotic statement, but can you substantiate your claim that it was "one of the dumbest" in this thread?  That's an awfully high bar.

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1564 on: September 19, 2020, 06:47:28 pm »

This may shed some light on the issue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1565 on: September 19, 2020, 06:51:38 pm »

For those confused — and I don't know why anyone would be, but it appears that some are remarkably (or intentionally) confused — Democratic Party is defined as a proper noun as it is, both in fact and thru more than two centuries of usage, the name of a political party in the United States.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/democratic-party  https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/democratic_party

The name extends back to Jefferson and Madison, when they founded the Democratic-Republican Party in opposition to the Federalist Party of Hamilton and Adams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party

After the contested election of 1824 between the two Democratic-Republican Party candidates John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson — which was decided in the house for Adams — the Democratic-Republican Party splintered into the Democratic Party and the National Republican Party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1824_United_States_presidential_election

Democratic Party candidate Andrew Jackson subsequently defeated National Republican Party candidate John Quincy Adams in the 1828 election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1828_United_States_presidential_election

Democratic (capitalized) is also the correct adjective to use with a noun when referring to an association with the Democratic Party, e.g. the Democratic candidate, Democratic convention, Democratic Senator, Democratic mayor, etc.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democratic

Now, if someone wants to incorrectly use the word Democrat where Democratic would be correct, they're free to do so. It just displays an ignorance of history and correct English language usage of the words.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1566 on: September 19, 2020, 07:48:27 pm »

Since Democrat Party seems to upset a lot of people here who I disagree with, I will continue to use it. If it was good enough for Senator and Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, it's good enough for me.

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1567 on: September 19, 2020, 07:54:25 pm »

People find all kinds of interesting ways to make themselves happy.

* and as the old saying goes... Ignorance is Bliss
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 10:45:58 pm by TechTalk »
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John Camp

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1568 on: September 19, 2020, 08:13:29 pm »

Well, without doubt it certainly was an idiotic statement, but can you substantiate your claim that it was "one of the dumbest" in this thread?  That's an awfully high bar.

You're right, I'm (probably) wrong.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1569 on: September 20, 2020, 10:21:59 am »

Why they seem to fear the word Democratic, I have no idea.

Maybe because they are not democratic?  ::)
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1570 on: September 20, 2020, 11:04:35 am »

Since Democrat Party seems to upset a lot of people here who I disagree with, I will continue to use it. If it was good enough for Senator and Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, it's good enough for me.

Here you go Alan,

What the vaunted NPR has to say...

https://www.npr.org/sections/publiceditor/2010/03/26/114585414/since-when-did-it-become-the-democrat-party
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 11:19:27 am by Craig Lamson »
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1571 on: September 20, 2020, 11:13:32 am »

Maybe because they are not democratic?  ::)
The American system is not democratic.  It's a republican form of government.  Republican is representative except during rare instances when people vote for local issues like authorizing a bond.  But almost all laws on the local, state, and federal level are through our representatives. 

Democracy ("the people rule" - demos cratein) only enters the picture in our vote for our representatives.  Even that is limited by electors in presidential elections.  It use to be limited with Senators as well who were selected by each state's legislature, not by people voting directly for the senator.  That's relatively recent about 100 years ago when the Constitution was changed. We're the Federal Republic of the United States of America. not a Federal Democracy.

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1572 on: September 20, 2020, 11:46:41 am »

Here is some colorful rhetoric from Trump at a recent rally:

"He is the worst candidate. The dumbest of all candidates," Trump said of former Vice President Biden. "He is the worst candidate in the history of presidential politics."

Trump also expanded on his unproven claim that Biden is on drugs, stating, "they gave him a big fat shot in the ass… and for two hours, he is better than ever before. Problem is, what happens after that?""

""You can't have this guy as your president," Trump argued. "You can't have — maybe I'll sign an executive order, you cannot have him as your president.""

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/20/trump-threatens-to-issue-executive-order-preventing-biden-from-being-elected-president/#76793edd76f6

Make of it what you will.

Nine days to go before the first debate. Note than the debate is only 90 minutes long so that the "big fat shot in the ass" should serve Biden well. My own suggestion is that Biden trade a drug test for Trump's tax returns.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 11:54:46 am by faberryman »
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Chris Kern

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1573 on: September 20, 2020, 11:56:32 am »

The American system is not democratic.  It's a republican form of government.

Republican is an antonym for monarchical.  It just means we don't have a monarch.  (Although for the moment, we seem to have a wannabe-monarch.)

The form of government in the United States could accurately be described as a representative democracy.

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1574 on: September 20, 2020, 12:57:20 pm »

Republican is an antonym for monarchical.  It just means we don't have a monarch.  (Although for the moment, we seem to have a wannabe-monarch.)

The form of government in the United States could accurately be described as a representative democracy.
Definition of republic
1a(1): a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
(2): a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
b(1): a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law
(2): a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
c: a usually specified republican government of a political unit
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/republic

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1575 on: September 20, 2020, 01:02:27 pm »

A federal republic is a federation of states with a republican form of government.[1] At its core, the literal meaning of the word republic when used to reference a form of government means: "a country that is governed by elected representatives and by an elected leader (such as a president) rather than by a king or queen".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_republic

Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1576 on: September 21, 2020, 11:06:20 am »

You have to give Trump one thing. When he visited the area of west coast wildfires, he didn't throw buckets of water at people. So he must have learned his lesson from that Puerto Rico paper towel throwing thing. Who says the man isn't mellowing.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1577 on: September 21, 2020, 01:55:33 pm »

You have to give Trump one thing. When he visited the area of west coast wildfires, he didn't throw buckets of water at people. So he must have learned his lesson from that Puerto Rico paper towel throwing thing. Who says the man isn't mellowing.
I figured out that most of his outrageous acts and statements were to keep his name in the news.  That's how Trump sold his name commercially all these decades.  But now before the election, he's changed his way of operating so people could see him as a reasonable man.  He's still edgy but in a more balanced way.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1578 on: September 21, 2020, 02:19:59 pm »

I figured out that most of his outrageous acts and statements were to keep his name in the news.  That's how Trump sold his name commercially all these decades.  But now before the election, he's changed his way of operating so people could see him as a reasonable man.  He's still edgy but in a more balanced way.

I know you didn't mean that to be funny, but it was a howler nonetheless.


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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1579 on: September 21, 2020, 02:29:57 pm »

I know you didn't mean that to be funny, but it was a howler nonetheless.

Especially when you read his comments this morning on Fox and Friends:

"President Trump questioned Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s dying wish that her replacement on the Supreme Court be chosen by the next president, suggesting without evidence on Monday that Democrats had concocted a quote provided by Justice Ginsburg’s grieving family.

“I don’t know that she said that, or if that was written out by Adam Schiff, and Schumer and Pelosi,” Mr. Trump said during an interview on “Fox & Friends” early Monday, referring to three top Democrats, Representative Adam Schiff of California, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York and Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California.

“That came out of the wind. It sounds so beautiful, but that sounds like a Schumer deal, or maybe Pelosi or Shifty Schiff,” added Mr. Trump, interrupting one of the show’s co-hosts, who had tried to interject that the quote had been verified by journalists."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/us/elections/ruth-bader-ginsburg-dying-wish.html

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