Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 110616 times)

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1500 on: September 12, 2020, 02:53:18 pm »

For anyone that doesn't give a damn about Covid anymore, I have a message from everyone else. No one gives a damn that you don't give a damn.

Responding to a pandemic isn't about you, it's about public health. No one gives a damn about your thoughts on the virus or feelings about how the response is handled. No one cares about your lack of concern or your fearlessness about contracting the disease; we're only concerned about your potential for spreading it.

If someone feels like getting drunk, no one cares until they get in their car and start driving, placing the health, safety, and lives of others at risk. Maybe they will make it home without killing themself or others, maybe not. The rest of us don't want to take that risk. Stay at home and watch TV in a stupor and no one will care.

If you don't give a damn about a pandemic, stay at home and read your collection of Ayn Rand novels. No one will give a damn. But, the rapid spreading of a virus that has brought with it misery, suffering, and death, and the choice is pretty easy. That, we do give a damn about.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1501 on: September 12, 2020, 03:30:11 pm »

For anyone that doesn't give a damn about Covid anymore, I have a message from everyone else. No one gives a damn that you don't give a damn.

Responding to a pandemic isn't about you, it's about public health. No one gives a damn about your thoughts on the virus or feelings about how the response is handled. No one cares about your lack of concern or your fearlessness about contracting the disease; we're only concerned about your potential for spreading it.

If someone feels like getting drunk, no one cares until they get in their car and start driving, placing the health, safety, and lives of others at risk. Maybe they will make it home without killing themself or others, maybe not. The rest of us don't want to take that risk. Stay at home and watch TV in a stupor and no one will care.

If you don't give a damn about a pandemic, stay at home and read your collection of Ayn Rand novels. No one will give a damn. But, the rapid spreading of a virus that has brought with it misery, suffering, and death, and the choice is pretty easy. That, we do give a damn about.


No one?  Is exaggeration just your MO?  Better yet, prove No One Cares. Joes opinion has just as much worth as yours.   Btw who is we?
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PeterAit

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1502 on: September 12, 2020, 03:35:29 pm »

For anyone that doesn't give a damn about Covid anymore, I have a message from everyone else. No one gives a damn that you don't give a damn.

Responding to a pandemic isn't about you, it's about public health. No one gives a damn about your thoughts on the virus or feelings about how the response is handled. No one cares about your lack of concern or your fearlessness about contracting the disease; we're only concerned about your potential for spreading it.

If someone feels like getting drunk, no one cares until they get in their car and start driving, placing the health, safety, and lives of others at risk. Maybe they will make it home without killing themself or others, maybe not. The rest of us don't want to take that risk. Stay at home and watch TV in a stupor and no one will care.

If you don't give a damn about a pandemic, stay at home and read your collection of Ayn Rand novels. No one will give a damn. But, the rapid spreading of a virus that has brought with it misery, suffering, and death, and the choice is pretty easy. That, we do give a damn about.

Good post and to the point.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1503 on: September 12, 2020, 06:19:07 pm »


No one?  Is exaggeration just your MO?  Better yet, prove No One Cares. Joes opinion has just as much worth as yours.

All opinions have the same value?

If I say "1+1=3" and you say "1+1=2", do our opinions have the same worth?

If they don't it means you agree with me that something I like to call "the truth" exists, and that people aligning their opinion with that truth are right and those who don't are wrong.

Correct?

In the case of covid19 the truth is crystal clear.
- taking late measures (late communication of a clear plan, late testing, late control of the degree of interaction between people,...) kills a lot more innocent people than need be and hurts the economy more than need be
- Trump did all that
- Once you have messed up that bad, additional measures need to be taken to avoid more death
- Trump is at least very inconsistent about these measures

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 06:23:02 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1504 on: September 12, 2020, 07:13:24 pm »

Before anyone gets into a frenzied state of excitement regarding Nobel Peace Prize nominations, it would be worthwhile to look into just how meaningless a nomination for that prize is due to the nomination process. Unlike, for instance, an Academy Award where it actually is an honor just to be nominated by the process of your peers voting for your nomination, the announcement of a Nobel Peace Prize nomination has no value except as a publicity stunt.

Relatively few people understand that thousands upon thousands of individuals around the world qualify as nominators; or that any one individual of that multitude can put forth a nomination; or how numerous and extremely broad the range of criteria is for being qualified as a nominator; or that there is no criteria for being nominated; and therefore, an individual making an announcement that they have nominated someone has publicity value, but nothing more. Being aware of that, The Nobel Committee does not provide a list of, nor give any recognition to, the hundreds of nominees received each year and withholds the names of those nominated for 50 years in an effort to reduce the use of nominations for publicity purposes.

Just in the US for example, any one of the hundreds of House Members or Senators in Congress, any Cabinet Member, any one of the thousands of professors of political or social science, history, philosophy, law, or theology, any university rectors or chancellors, and numerous other individuals qualify as nominators and could announce that you are a nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize! Think how that would look on your resume! So become friends with a local university professor, maybe offer a donation to their favorite charity, and you too could be graced with such an honor! And if you can't find someone in your own country to nominate you, there are hundreds or thousands of people qualified to do so in every other nation in the world that could provide you with such an honor. Although, it's an honor that would be shared with the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini, who were all Nobel Peace Prize nominees.

Being awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, now that's an honor! Being nominated is a nothing-burger. While Nobel Prize awards, in every category, are sometimes criticized and sometimes controversial; they have never been awarded for nothing.

https://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/facts/facts-on-the-nobel-peace-prize/

https://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/questions-and-answers-about-the-nomination-process-for-a-nobel-peace-prize/

How does the nomination process work?

Nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize are submitted from all corners of the world to the Norwegian Nobel Committee, responsible for selecting the recipient(s) of the prize. Anyone who fulfils the nominator criteria can put forward a name and motivate their opinion of why they consider the candidate worthy. This is what differs the Nobel Peace Prize selection process from many other prizes where the Committee in charge chooses both all the nominees and the winners.

Who can nominate?

Nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize requires no invitation. Eligible nominators are university rectors or chancellors, professors of political and social science, history, philosophy, law and theology; leaders of peace research institutes and institutes of foreign affairs; members of national assemblies, governments, and international courts of law; previous Nobel Peace Prize Laureates; board members of organizations and institutions that have received the Nobel Peace Prize; present and past members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee; and former advisers of the Norwegian Nobel Institute.

Is there a list of all of the nominees for this year’s Nobel Peace Prize?

Contrary to common belief, there is no public list of the current year’s nominees. The complete list of eligible nominees of any year’s prizes is not disclosed for another 50 years – a restriction as governed by the Nobel statutes.

What does it mean to be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

Any person or organization can be nominated by anyone eligible to nominate. The Norwegian Nobel Committee has no say in submissions that arrives according to the criteria, strictly in who is actually awarded the prize in October. To simply be nominated is therefore not an endorsement or extended honour to imply affiliation with the Nobel Peace Prize or its related institutions.

Do you share any information about who is nominated for the Peace Prize this year?

No. In fact, none of the Nobel Committees do announce the names of nominees, neither to the media nor to the candidates themselves. In so far as certain names crop up in the advance speculations of potential nominees or candidates – it’s either sheer guesswork or information put out by the person or persons behind a nomination.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1505 on: September 12, 2020, 07:44:09 pm »

[...]
In fact, none of the Nobel Committees do announce the names of nominees, neither to the media nor to the candidates themselves. In so far as certain names crop up in the advance speculations of potential nominees or candidates – it’s either sheer guesswork or information put out by the person or persons behind a nomination.

+1
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1506 on: September 13, 2020, 03:49:00 am »

If you want, for some bizarre reason only you can understand, to discuss politics in relation to coronavirus, there's a special place for you. Don't do it here, or anywhere other than the playpen.

Jeremy
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William Walker

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1507 on: September 13, 2020, 05:00:27 am »

+1

Guys, guys, guys! You are all barking up the wrong tree!

Trump was not nominated for "The Nobel Peace Prize" - he was, and this is according to  his campaign, nominated for "The Noble Peace Prize"!

Don't believe me...believe your lying eyes...
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JoeKitchen

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1508 on: September 13, 2020, 12:06:32 pm »

For anyone that doesn't give a damn about Covid anymore, I have a message from everyone else. No one gives a damn that you don't give a damn.

Responding to a pandemic isn't about you, it's about public health. No one gives a damn about your thoughts on the virus or feelings about how the response is handled. No one cares about your lack of concern or your fearlessness about contracting the disease; we're only concerned about your potential for spreading it.

If someone feels like getting drunk, no one cares until they get in their car and start driving, placing the health, safety, and lives of others at risk. Maybe they will make it home without killing themself or others, maybe not. The rest of us don't want to take that risk. Stay at home and watch TV in a stupor and no one will care.

If you don't give a damn about a pandemic, stay at home and read your collection of Ayn Rand novels. No one will give a damn. But, the rapid spreading of a virus that has brought with it misery, suffering, and death, and the choice is pretty easy. That, we do give a damn about.

You can stay home if you give a damn, and that way you will be safe.  After all, we were told lock downs work and, if you believe this, well then you should be safe, right!

I on other hand know the facts are on my side.  About 50% of deaths were in nursing homes, and the average age of death overall is 78 (the average of death anyway).  This shows that, as is almost always the case, this sickness effects the elderly the most, with the elderly needing to be protected the most. 

Fact is, we went far too broad with these overall lock downs, skipping a 100 steps between doing nothing and where we went to.  We could have instead concentrated our money into protecting the vulnerable instead of spreading it across to everyone and gotten a better result.  This is proven by the fact that FL did just this without locking down with much better results then some other states, like NY and NJ. 

So, when I say I dont give a damn anymore, let me clarify this, I just dont give a damn about the overall lock downs and continuing to follow these draconian rules.  It is beyond obvious it was a total mistake to go this broad, which anyone looking at the data closely knew at week 5.  Same thing with testing.  There is no reason to test anyone else then the vulnerable and those who come in contact with the vulnerable.  It has spread at this point, so contact tracing (aside from scientific studies) is pointless. 

If you want to talk about targeted approaches, like we have mainly been doing for the last couple of months, then I am all ears.  But insofar as overall lock downs, I just ain't doing it anymore and have not for 3 months at this point. 

So no, I will not be staying home.  I will continue to go out and enjoy myself, only wearing a mask when required indoors.  Like I said, if you think lock downs work so well, stay inside and you should be safe (by your own logic).  I was golfing in a group fo 8 yesterday, we all shook hands, none of us had masks on, we used the carts in pairs, so it is not just me. 

FYI, I've never read a book by Ayn Rand and know very few conservatives who consider her to be important, and I know many who feel she should be shunned.  She is more then not used as a boogie man by leftists to distort views of conservative. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 12:34:22 pm by JoeKitchen »
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kers

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1509 on: September 13, 2020, 12:40:13 pm »

Guys, guys, guys! You are all barking up the wrong tree!

Trump was not nominated for "The Nobel Peace Prize" - he was, and this is according to  his campaign, nominated for "The Noble Peace Prize"!

Don't believe me...believe your lying eyes...
Hilarious!
But then, it is obvious he can’t speak Norwegian.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1510 on: September 13, 2020, 02:52:02 pm »

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1511 on: September 13, 2020, 08:09:54 pm »

Roger Stone speaks, https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/13/roger-stone-to-donald-trump-bring-in-martial-law-if-you-lose-election. Trump should have left him in the hoosegow.  :)

Yes, this is part of an orchestrated communication plan to normalize the idea that these elections are different, that not respecting the choice of the electors is a valid approach.

Trump knows he is going to loose, so he is simply planning to do what he has been doing all his life. Which is to cheat.

He is trying to build a case for the legitimacy of cheating by distilling the idea that the others are cheating first. That his incredibly offensive move is a defensive one.

Those using their brains even a few seconds and looking at reality know that this is just insane. That someone close to the President of the US speaking such non sense in public is a total disgrace. Yet, I have not seen any reaction from the likes of Craig, Joe,... they seem to be fine with the clear sign of move towards dictatorship. And I would like to stress once again their direct personnal responsibility here.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 08:13:54 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1512 on: September 13, 2020, 11:21:24 pm »

Stone is irrelevant.  The one who counts is Pence. Hence my new favourite meme:

Trump loses the election.
As a lame duck president, he resigns and Pence assumes the presidency.
Pence pardons Trump.
Done.

And, as <insert usual suspects here> would say: "It's all perfectly legal".
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John Camp

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1513 on: September 14, 2020, 12:35:25 pm »

Stone is irrelevant.  The one who counts is Pence. Hence my new favourite meme:

Trump loses the election.
As a lame duck president, he resigns and Pence assumes the presidency.
Pence pardons Trump.
Done.

And, as <insert usual suspects here> would say: "It's all perfectly legal".


Mostly won't work -- Pence couldn't pardon state-based crimes, only federal crimes. Trump spent most of his life in New York, and most of his criminal activity (other than treason) involves his finances,  which New York heavily regulates, and his taxes. Because state taxes are often based on federal returns, if he cheated on his federal taxes, he cheated on his state taxes. Of course, with his orange hair, he'll look quite svelte in New York's orange nylon jumpsuits.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1514 on: September 14, 2020, 09:49:12 pm »

Trump instigates "lock him up" chants about Obama at a rally in Nevada, https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/14/trump-without-evidence-claims-obama-spied-on-2016-campaign-elicits-lock-him-up-chant/#64ba2d449990.

Trump has been in office for nearly four years, renewed claims that they caught Obama "cold" back in 2016, but he has never taken any action in that time. Makes no sense.

Is this just a carnival sideshow?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1515 on: September 14, 2020, 11:03:28 pm »

Trump instigates "lock him up" chants about Obama at a rally in Nevada, https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/14/trump-without-evidence-claims-obama-spied-on-2016-campaign-elicits-lock-him-up-chant/#64ba2d449990.

Trump has been in office for nearly four years, renewed claims that they caught Obama "cold" back in 2016, but he has never taken any action in that time. Makes no sense.

Is this just a carnival sideshow?

Nothing makes sense. Reality has no more any impact on anything Trump says.

He has demonstrated the world, including his supporters, that he can look at a Yes sign and tell you with a straight face “it says no”.

The good news is that it removes any credibility from insane claims such as “Joe Biden is a socialist who will take your guns”.

Cheers,
Bernard

PeterAit

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1516 on: September 15, 2020, 08:14:46 am »

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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1517 on: September 15, 2020, 01:14:56 pm »

Before the Trumplets here get too dewy-eyed about the "peace" deals between Israel and the UAE and Bahrain, you would do well to read this.

The author has a very definite axe to grind.

Jeremy
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1518 on: September 15, 2020, 01:34:05 pm »

It's the Middle East. There are a thousand parties grinding a thousand axes. All of them with a double edge.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #1519 on: September 15, 2020, 01:58:13 pm »

The author has a very definite axe to grind.

At least he offers an explanation for what UAE and Bahamian get out of the deal.
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