US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Alan Klein]

I thought the US honoured its soldiers.

It does.  Unfortunately, most things government does it does poorly, including the VA. They should give vouchers to the vets to use at private doctors and hospitals and shut down the VA system except for special needs not handled by private care. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Could you please help me out?  I'm looking for the US military service records of Joe Biden, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton.  I'm having trouble finding them.  Do you know where they might be found?

They are in the same file as President Trump's.  this is not a secret.  Of the ones you mention, Obama came of age after the draft ended and an all-volunteer army was instituted.  Of course you know he is not a US citizen and had no obligation to serve.  In addition, the percentage of Americans enlisting in the military is way down from the draft period.

[MattBurt]

They are in the same file as President Trump's.  this is not a secret.  Of the ones you mention, Obama came of age after the draft ended and an all-volunteer army was instituted.  Of course you know he is not a US citizen and had no obligation to serve.  In addition, the percentage of Americans enlisting in the military is way down from the draft period.

LOL, interesting tidbit: When I was 18 and a resident alien I had to register for the draft.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Well I did find that star high school athlete Joe Biden got a draft deferment after he graduated collage for asthma.

I can tell you from first hand knowledge that asthma was an automatic 4-F disqualification from service.  I dutifully reported for my draft physical in 1970 (my lottery number was 23).  I was under treatment for asthma since the age of seven.  I went all the way through the physical and at the end was instructed by the Army staff person that I was not fit for military service and if I tried to enlist, would be refused for duty.  I was also a high school athlete but the medical rules were the medical rules.

[faberryman]

Trump fails again this year to be awarded a MacArthur genius grant

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/us/macarthur-genius-grant-winners/index.html

[TechTalk]

The US colony of Puerto Rico has had multiple votes on statehood. The most recent were in 2012 and 2017. The majority voted for statehood in both of those referendums. There has been support for statehood for Puerto Rico from both parties over decades. The population of Puerto Rico is over three million people and larger than that of 21 states.

The Democratic platform of 1940 said: "We favor a larger measure of self-government leading to statehood, for Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico. We favor the appointment of residents to office, and equal treatment of the citizens of each of these three territories."

President Gerald Ford proposed statehood in 1976: "I believe that the appropriate status for Puerto Rico is statehood. I propose, therefore, that the people of Puerto Rico and the Congress of the United States begin now to take those steps which will result in statehood for Puerto Rico. I will recommend to the 95th Congress the enactment of legislation providing for the admission of Puerto Rico as a State of the Union."

President Ronald Reagan favored statehood: "I favor statehood for Puerto Rico and if the people of Puerto Rico vote for statehood in their coming referendum I would, as President, initiate the enabling legislation to make this a reality."

President George H. W. Bush raised the issue of statehood before Congress in his first State of the Union message in 1989: "There's another issue that I’ve decided to mention here tonight. I’ve long believed that the people of Puerto Rico should have the right to determine their own political future. Personally, I strongly favor statehood. But I urge the Congress to take the necessary steps to allow the people to decide in a referendum."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_Rico

It's well past the time for the United States to get out of the business of being a colonial power. The citizenship, governing, and voting rights of the various citizens in the remaining island colonies is a mess of inconsistencies. It's absurd.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Trump fails again this year to be awarded a MacArthur genius grant

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/us/macarthur-genius-grant-winners/index.html

He still has a week of waiting to see if he wins the Nobel Peace Prize!!  There is still hope for the Trumpistas who comment here.

[Craig Lamson]

They are in the same file as President Trump's.  this is not a secret.  Of the ones you mention, Obama came of age after the draft ended and an all-volunteer army was instituted.  Of course you know he is not a US citizen and had no obligation to serve.  In addition, the percentage of Americans enlisting in the military is way down from the draft period.

My oh my Alan. 

[Alan Klein]

The US colony of Puerto Rico has had multiple votes on statehood. The most recent were in 2012 and 2017. The majority voted for statehood in both of those referendums. There has been support for statehood for Puerto Rico from both parties over decades. The population of Puerto Rico is over three million people and larger than that of 21 states.

The Democratic platform of 1940 said: "We favor a larger measure of self-government leading to statehood, for Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico. We favor the appointment of residents to office, and equal treatment of the citizens of each of these three territories."

President Gerald Ford proposed statehood in 1976: "I believe that the appropriate status for Puerto Rico is statehood. I propose, therefore, that the people of Puerto Rico and the Congress of the United States begin now to take those steps which will result in statehood for Puerto Rico. I will recommend to the 95th Congress the enactment of legislation providing for the admission of Puerto Rico as a State of the Union."

President Ronald Reagan favored statehood: "I favor statehood for Puerto Rico and if the people of Puerto Rico vote for statehood in their coming referendum I would, as President, initiate the enabling legislation to make this a reality."

President George H. W. Bush raised the issue of statehood before Congress in his first State of the Union message in 1989: "There's another issue that I’ve decided to mention here tonight. I’ve long believed that the people of Puerto Rico should have the right to determine their own political future. Personally, I strongly favor statehood. But I urge the Congress to take the necessary steps to allow the people to decide in a referendum."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_Rico

It's well past the time for the United States to get out of the business of being a colonial power. The citizenship, governing, and voting rights of the various citizens in the remaining island colonies is a mess of inconsistencies. It's absurd.

I didn't know there was a positive referendum in 2012 for Puerto Rico statehood. Thanks for telling us. Apparently, because there were almost 500,000 blank ballots in the 2012 referendum, creating confusion as to the voters' true desire, Congress, which has to vote to make it official,  decided to ignore the results.  There's was another one in 2017 when a boycott occurred and only 20% of the people voted. Apparently there's going to be another referendum in November.

There's nothing saying the people there might vote to remain a territory of the US rather than becoming a state.  Some residents there want become an independent nation. The are advantages and disadvantages for each category.  It's one of the reasons they had voted most of the time to not become a state and have to pay taxes or support themselves as a independent nation.

[Chris Kern]

If you’re looking for a balanced analysis try
https://www.economist.com/us-election-2020

Another useful aggregator is FiveThirtyEight.

[Craig Lamson]

I can tell you from first hand knowledge that asthma was an automatic 4-F disqualification from service.  I dutifully reported for my draft physical in 1970 (my lottery number was 23).  I was under treatment for asthma since the age of seven.  I went all the way through the physical and at the end was instructed by the Army staff person that I was not fit for military service and if I tried to enlist, would be refused for duty.  I was also a high school athlete but the medical rules were the medical rules.

Oh yea, it had to be the rules...you bet.

Biden was 1-Y, had a "history" of Asthma as a teenager.

[Alan Klein]

I can tell you from first hand knowledge that asthma was an automatic 4-F disqualification from service.  I dutifully reported for my draft physical in 1970 (my lottery number was 23).  I was under treatment for asthma since the age of seven.  I went all the way through the physical and at the end was instructed by the Army staff person that I was not fit for military service and if I tried to enlist, would be refused for duty.  I was also a high school athlete but the medical rules were the medical rules.

When I went for my physical to enlist in the USAF in 1963, the doctor there held me up.  He said I had a scoliosis - curvature of the spine and couldn't serve.  He told me to wait at his desk while he went to get another doctor to confirm.  When he left, I ignored his instructions and ran forward to catch up with the other enlistees and "passed" the physical and served over four years. Always the rebel.

[Alan Klein]

Trump shut down negotiations for a stimulus package promising that when he wins, he'll get all the out of work people and small businesses all the help they need.  Makes sense.  He flipped Democrats actual plans to really not want to give the money to out of work people who will vote against Trump.  Now, he'll complaint they just wanted to give money to those rich people in NY and California  when Trump and Republicans want to get the regular people the money. 

[Craig Lamson]

I've spoken up when someone around me is flaunting their unwillingness to wear a mask in situations where they are putting others at risk (and where the private business is requiring people to wear masks).  Haven't been shot yet, thankfully, though one woman did tell me to fuck off.   .  I'll also be making a call to my house rep's office tomorrow because he's the kind of jerk that actively refused to wear a mask on a commercial flight this weekend.  Minimal impact, sure, but the point is that I'm not just shrugging my shoulders and accepting it.

Just for you James

Punches thrown over passenger who won't wear mask on airplane.

An argument over face masks turned physical on an Allegiant Airlines flight from Mesa, Ariz., to Provo, Utah, on Saturday.

A passenger on the flight was wearing a face shield and a flight attendant asked him to wear a face mask as well, KSL TV reported. Allegiant’s policy is that face shields must be worn in addition to a face covering, not as an alternative.
https://thehill.com/homenews/519655-punches-thrown-over-passenger-who-wont-wear-mask-on-airplane

[MattBurt]

Just for you James

Punches thrown over passenger who won't wear mask on airplane.

An argument over face masks turned physical on an Allegiant Airlines flight from Mesa, Ariz., to Provo, Utah, on Saturday.

A passenger on the flight was wearing a face shield and a flight attendant asked him to wear a face mask as well, KSL TV reported. Allegiant’s policy is that face shields must be worn in addition to a face covering, not as an alternative.
https://thehill.com/homenews/519655-punches-thrown-over-passenger-who-wont-wear-mask-on-airplane

He didn't deserve to be punched, just removed from the plane.

[Manoli]

Another useful aggregator is FiveThirtyEight.

Thank you.

[Manoli]

Plumbing new depths today.
Facebook removes POTUS posts for promoting blatant falsehoods.
Pence insists that the VP debate be conducted seated !

Can the last one really be true ?

[Alan Klein]

Plumbing new depths today.
Facebook removes POTUS posts for promoting blatant falsehoods.
Pence insists that the VP debate be conducted seated !

Can the last one really be true ?

Falsehoods are in the eye of the beholder. Especially when discussing political statements during election season when bias of the editor can sway interpretations.  They shouldn't censor anything.  Politicians words should be reported without edits.

[faberryman]

Pence insists that the VP debate be conducted seated!

What's with that? Is he unable to stand at a lectern for 90 minutes. I mean he can lean on it if he wants. Maybe he has low blood pressure and is afraid of fainting. Elastic hosiery should take care of that. I am still wondering if his wife is going to sit with him on stage. Maybe he has gotten special dispensation to go it alone since there will now be 12 feet and a plexiglass shield between him and Harris. I am not really up on those rules. Anyone?

[Alan Klein]

Can you imagine the moderator here editing, deleting or otherwise censoring what Nikon owners say or Canon owner's say in response about their cameras?  Let the buyer beware.