COVID-19 updates

[John Camp]

Here's a thought (from a moderately liberal Democrat old guy) --

I think some of the lefty Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot politically. Some are insisting if there are industry bailouts, that political conditions be attached -- that workers have a member placed on the board of directors, that all stockholders be washed out before the company (that is, the employees) are bailed out, that limits be put on CEO pay, etc. They apparently believe these companies are in trouble because of greedy, incompetent managers, rather than because of the C-19 virus. These companies may need to be bailed out for the sake of the country, not just for the sake of the companies -- I mean, I want to be able to fly to the East Coast from here in New Mexico; I want the airlines to be there and relatively healthy. I think injecting these politically based extortions into the bailouts would be a serious mistake. The bailouts should be carefully measured, and the bailed-out companies shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of taxpayer money to improve their position beyond what it would have otherwise been, but we shouldn't use extortion for political gain.

[JoeKitchen]

Here's a thought (from a moderately liberal Democrat old guy) --

I think some of the lefty Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot politically. Some are insisting if there are industry bailouts, that political conditions be attached -- that workers have a member placed on the board of directors, that all stockholders be washed out before the company (that is, the employees) are bailed out, that limits be put on CEO pay, etc. They apparently believe these companies are in trouble because of greedy, incompetent managers, rather than because of the C-19 virus. These companies may need to be bailed out for the sake of the country, not just for the sake of the companies -- I mean, I want to be able to fly to the East Coast from here in New Mexico; I want the airlines to be there and relatively healthy. I think injecting these politically based extortions into the bailouts would be a serious mistake. The bailouts should be carefully measured, and the bailed-out companies shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of taxpayer money to improve their position beyond what it would have otherwise been, but we shouldn't use extortion for political gain.

I have only so far heard Bernie say this.  Is it spreading?  If so, yes, many are going to shoot themselves. 

You cant shut down the economy and destroy business (what the government  is doing) and then use that as a backhanded way to push through your agenda with extortion.  If I was a business owner in this situation, I'd choose bankruptcy and I have been reading about plenty of business people saying the same thing. 

[Robert Roaldi]

I'll explain it. When anything remotely threatening happens, people buy guns. We have a thing in the U.S., promoted widely by gun companies, gun magazines and gun nuts, called the SHTF situation (Shit Hits The Fan.) This is usually a situation where all power plants fail at the same time, and every single government drops out of sight, beautiful Fox News newsreaders are eaten, and black people, who are 12% of the population, and high on all manner of drugs, come boiling out of the ghettos armed with machetes and overwhelm the 88% of the rest of us, paying special attention to beautiful blond women, which requires us to have guns. This is especially true in states that have no black people, because, you know, black people are like that. Even though, when you go to a gun show, most of the people there are either (a) old or (b) fat, or more likely (c) both, on the magazines they are portrayed as being tall, big-shouldered, wearing yellow blade sunglasses and head-to-toe camo, and armed with a black rifle and a high capacity handgun with which they'll be shooting those rabbits (and any black people they find up in the mountains.) My point being, if you can't get a C-19 vaccine, buy a gun.

Too funny. There was a report here in Canada yesterday about gun sales going way up (I can't remember which city). Reading the article, it was based on an interview with a gun shop owner. For all we know, he sold 3 guns last week instead of 1. When a reporter calls a salesman, what's he going to say, "I'm just having a sandwich." That would never be reported. Honestly, these reports sound more like marketing to me than anything else.

[faberryman]

Honestly, these reports sound more like marketing to me than anything else.

And do you think the photos of people lined up around the block to get into the gun stores are staged?

[Robert Roaldi]

And do you think the photos of people lined up around the block to get into the gun stores are staged?

Not all of them, no, I'm sure it does really happen. This risks going off topic for the thread though. Is one photo representative of a wider phenomenon? Hard for me to say. I'm a little surprised that gun sales haven't reached saturation yet. The stats I read make it sound like there are already more guns than people, or similar order of magnitude. Doesn't this happen after every school shooting too?

I'm a little too cynical sometimes, but it just seems too good a marketing opportunity to pass up. Are those news agencies just showing old stock pictures? Maybe not, but I would not be surprised. Just feels like a bit like a meme, is all I'm saying.

[faberryman]

Doesn't this happen after every school shooting too?

Sadly, yes. Gun nuts go out and buy more guns and ammo anticipating the latest incident will be the tipping point for restrictive gun legislation. Got to get them while you can. You can never have too many.

[chez]

And do you think the photos of people lined up around the block to get into the gun stores are staged?

No...that's a sign the hysteria marketing by the gun associations is working...like lemmings to the sea.

[chez]

Not all of them, no, I'm sure it does really happen. This risks going off topic for the thread though. Is one photo representative of a wider phenomenon? Hard for me to say. I'm a little surprised that gun sales haven't reached saturation yet. The stats I read make it sound like there are already more guns than people, or similar order of magnitude. Doesn't this happen after every school shooting too?

I'm a little too cynical sometimes, but it just seems too good a marketing opportunity to pass up. Are those news agencies just showing old stock pictures? Maybe not, but I would not be surprised. Just feels like a bit like a meme, is all I'm saying.

Come on, just like cameras, you can never have enough guns.

[Robert Roaldi]

Come on, just like cameras, you can never have enough guns.

You're right, what was I thinking?

[LesPalenik]

Sadly, yes. Gun nuts go out and buy more guns and ammo anticipating the latest incident will be the tipping point for restrictive gun legislation. Got to get them while you can. You can never have too many.

Here we have Toilet Paper people go out and buy more toilet paper anticipating an accident. Any more cases like that and we'll reach a tipping point for restrictive TP usage legislation.

[Craig Lamson]

Too funny. There was a report here in Canada yesterday about gun sales going way up (I can't remember which city). Reading the article, it was based on an interview with a gun shop owner. For all we know, he sold 3 guns last week instead of 1. When a reporter calls a salesman, what's he going to say, "I'm just having a sandwich." That would never be reported. Honestly, these reports sound more like marketing to me than anything else.

There have been reports with video of gun shops that are void of product, shops with lines around the block, with people who have never owned a gun, and ammo gone.  Take it for what you will but its not "marketing", just fact. 

Its only a joke until you need that gun...which I sincerely hope is never.

Data to back up the increase in sales.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/gun-background-checks-double-colorado-amid-coronavirus-crisis/story?id=69666602
The number of firearms background checks in Colorado has doubled compared with the same time last year, perhaps a sign of the unease Americans feel amid the coronavirus crisis.

More than 14,000 background checks for firearms transfers have been received in the last week, compared to about 7,000 checks conducted in the same timeframe last year, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation said in a statement on Tuesday.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-gun-buyers.html
checks through the F.B.I. system leapt 36 percent in February compared with the same month last year, to a total of 2.8 million nationally — the largest year-over-year percentage increase in any month since July 2016 (another presidential election year). The agency processed more background checks in February than it had in all but two other months since it started performing the queries in the late 1990s.

January, when most confirmed cases of the virus were still mostly overseas, also saw a sizable increase in background checks, up 25 percent from the same month last year.

[Alan Klein]

Here's why the Chinese don't have anyone sick anymore.  They don't mess around.
https://youtu.be/_uv2IoFYVDQ

[Alan Klein]

 

Here we have Toilet Paper people go out and buy more toilet paper anticipating an accident. Any more cases like that and we'll reach a tipping point for restrictive TP usage legislation.

No more than ten rolls in a package.  Then you have to re-load.

[Alan Klein]

Here's a thought (from a moderately liberal Democrat old guy) --

I think some of the lefty Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot politically. Some are insisting if there are industry bailouts, that political conditions be attached -- that workers have a member placed on the board of directors, that all stockholders be washed out before the company (that is, the employees) are bailed out, that limits be put on CEO pay, etc. They apparently believe these companies are in trouble because of greedy, incompetent managers, rather than because of the C-19 virus. These companies may need to be bailed out for the sake of the country, not just for the sake of the companies -- I mean, I want to be able to fly to the East Coast from here in New Mexico; I want the airlines to be there and relatively healthy. I think injecting these politically based extortions into the bailouts would be a serious mistake. The bailouts should be carefully measured, and the bailed-out companies shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of taxpayer money to improve their position beyond what it would have otherwise been, but we shouldn't use extortion for political gain.

Bailouts are a waste.  The government prints money that reduces the savings and income of the rest of society to redistribute money to these companies.  People who can;t afford it bail out companies that have to survive on their own.   These companies will rebound or not depending on circumstances.  If there aren't enough flyers, then what good is all those airlines?  The smarter ones will survive and the stupider ones will sell their planes being bought up by the successful airlines. They should reduce in quantity naturally or combine as the case may be.  If there are enough customers coming back, then more companies will be able to pickup their old customers.   When you invest in corporation, that's the chances you take.  People who don;t profit when times are good should not be bailing you out when times are bad.  The problem is we're not on the gold standard anymore.  Fiat currency just means they can print whenever.  That's why the country is broke and getting more broke.  This is all just stupid.   

[JoeKitchen]

Bailouts are a waste.  The government prints money that reduces the savings and income of the rest of society to redistribute money to these companies.  People who can;t afford it bail out companies that have to survive on their own.   These companies will rebound or not depending on circumstances.  If there aren't enough flyers, then what good is all those airlines?  The smarter ones will survive and the stupider ones will sell their planes being bought up by the successful airlines. They should reduce in quantity naturally or combine as the case may be.  If there are enough customers coming back, then more companies will be able to pickup their old customers.   When you invest in corporation, that's the chances you take.  People who don;t profit when times are good should not be bailing you out when times are bad.  The problem is we're not on the gold standard anymore.  Fiat currency just means they can print whenever.  That's why the country is broke and getting more broke.  This is all just stupid.   

Alan, although I disagree with the premise that people should be forced to hand over part of the ownership of their business to the government for loans, the fact is this is mostly the government fault. 

Part of the 5th amendments states that the government can not seize your property without just compensation.  The government is forcing business to close against their will, in many cases, and therefore should be providing compensation for this. 

In 2008, I would have completely agreed with you.  Here, the economic downturn is mainly that of the government. 

[Rob C]

Thanks for proving my point.

No, Joe, it's my graddaughter who is the lawyer: I'm too slow to figure out how your point has been proved by my post; perchance you might explain?

Rob

[John Camp]

I'm doing working with some of my pharma retiree friends and tracking COVID-19 drug and vaccine trials.  We already have a spread sheet of 28 different drugs and vaccines.  Some of these are used at multiple sites and in various combinations.

I cut this quote from Alan from a different thread, but my answer would have been off-topic there and I didn't want to go off-topic, so...

I just read a Chinese report on the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine which was found to be quite efficient in in-vitro tests, which doesn't mean that it would be in actual humans, but the signs are good. Also, it has been widely used for decades, and it is known to be very safe. The French have also found it to be efficacious against Covid-19, but the story I read about that didn't specific whether they found it to work only in vitro, or in actual cases. I think the French report involved actual cases, though, because they said it worked especially well in conjunction with an antibiotic, but I don't know what an antibiotic would have to do with a virus...

An unusual aspect of this is that Trump said in a press conference that this drug worked and would be immediately available, or something to that effect. But then an FDA doctor corrected him, and said, No, it wouldn't be, because it would have to go through "pragmatic" safety tests on Covid-19 to make sure it worked on that disease. That seems crazy to me -- if the drug is safe for several other conditions (it apparently is,) then give it to everybody, and find out if the death rate drops. That's a pragmatic trial right there. If I'm dying of Covid-19, I don't care if hydroxychloroquine hasn't been approved, I'm going to take it. It's apparently easy to manufacture and even now is widely available...

Edit: found a link on that.  https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-malaria-drug-coronavirus-fda-1493293   

[Alan Goldhammer]

I cut this quote from Alan from a different thread, but my answer would have been off-topic there and I didn't want to go off-topic, so...

I just read a Chinese report on the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine which was found to be quite efficient in in-vitro tests, which doesn't mean that it would be in actual humans, but the signs are good. Also, it has been widely used for decades, and it is known to be very safe. The French have also found it to be efficacious against Covid-19, but the story I read about that didn't specific whether they found it to work only in vitro, or in actual cases. I think the French report involved actual cases, though, because they said it worked especially well in conjunction with an antibiotic, but I don't know what an antibiotic would have to do with a virus...

An unusual aspect of this is that Trump said in a press conference that this drug worked and would be immediately available, or something to that effect. But then an FDA doctor corrected him, and said, No, it wouldn't be, because it would have to go through "pragmatic" safety tests on Covid-19 to make sure it worked on that disease. That seems crazy to me -- if the drug is safe for several other conditions (it apparently is,) then give it to everybody, and find out if the death rate drops. That's a pragmatic trial right there. If I'm dying of Covid-19, I don't care if hydroxychloroquine hasn't been approved, I'm going to take it. It's apparently easy to manufacture and even now is widely available...

Edit: found a link on that.  https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-malaria-drug-coronavirus-fda-1493293   

I have tried to restrain myself but here goes:  this is FAKE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Newsweek story is garbage. The French study is an anecdote and maybe the data holds up; IIRC only 17 patients whose illness severity was not known.  Hydroxychlorquine was approved by the FDA years ago and is available as a generic drug from multiple manufacturers.  I have no idea what dosage is being used in clinical trials and there are multiple trials going on world wide.  The dose for the malaria treatment is quite large as opposed to the dose for prophylaxis when traveling in malaria infected countries.  It's not the most dangerous drug in the world but it can cause devastating retina degradation in some individuals.  Trials for this will be relatively straight forward to do and data can be disseminated quickly.

Hope this helps.

[Rob C]

Isn't it odd when people compare the deaths per year from 'flu with those - so far - of coronavirus: it ain't as if the 'flu has stopped reaping skulls; it's additional, not either/or.

Happy walking, shooting  and social intercourse!

;-(

[LesPalenik]

10,000 C19 deaths globally now, with Italy having a greater death count (3405) than China (3245), both in absolute and relative numbers.
Infections in China 81,000 vs Italy's 41,000. New infections in Italy 5,300, last day deaths 427, and no improvement in sight.

New infections in USA also rapidly on rise, over 4,000 new cases diagnosed today.